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Thread: European cultures : (1) The French

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
    2/ Your reference and therefore your "analyse" is not neutral but based on anglo-saxon books. Therefore, your way of talking about "French culture" is a comparison with the anglo-saxon one. Is the anglo-saxon THE culture we (human beings) have to refer to juge another one ?
    My point of view cannot be an "Anglo-Saxon" one since I am a native French speaker with relatives in France. I have met French people from all parts of France, studied with French people, worked with French people, frequented French expat communities abroad (e.g. in Japan), and watched French TV since I was a child like any French person. It's not because I am critical that I am biased. On the contrary, I believe that the only way to truly understand one's own culture is to distance oneself from it by living far away from it and embracing another culture for long enough to see things completely differently once you go back home. I did it several times, since I have lived in 6 non-Francophone countries and learnt the language and culture every time. Each of these experiences brought me new insight into my native culture. I did quote the work of two English writers here, but only because I agreed with these specific passages. It's really not much among all the books I have read, and sometimes English people can be right about the French, especially if like Richard Hill they have lived abroad most of their lives and a long time in France or Belgium.

    It also made me realise that Francophone Belgium is really just another region of France, with its small regional peculiarities, but on the whole is overwhelmingly part of the French mainstream culture and way of thinking. In fact, southern regions like Auvergne or Languedoc are less similar to Parisian and North French culture than French-speaking Belgium is. Before living abroad, like most Belgians, I would never have agreed that the Francophone Belgians are so similar to the French, but viewed from a distance (be it India, Australia or Japan), it is painfully obvious.

    As for the rest of your comments, it looks like you haven't been much out of France, except on holiday to neighbouring European countries. You keep comparing the French to the Brits, the Germans or the Italians, but I don't see any reference to the Indians, Thais, Chinese, Papuans or whatever other truly different culture. For example :

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
    9/I disagree with your sentence : "France is a very vertical society, where people look up to the boss, and speech is very formal and distant. It contrasts with the much more egalitarian approach of Germanic people". Actually I agree with the part about France but it's the same or worse in Germani countries such as Germany, Austria or Switzerland where titles are eveywhere in the public life (on the ring bell you are Dip. Ing. etc) and where hierarchy is as strongly seeable as in France if not worse sometimes. Scandinavians are much more informal.
    You are comparing neighbouring countries with a common history going back to the Paleolithic (let's say 40,000 years ago), and that only split from each other in the Middle Ages (about 1000 years ago, although Alsace and Lorraine last switched in the 20th century). From a genetic point of view many North and East French people are nearly undistinguishable from West or Southwest Germans and the Swiss. When you know that a substantial part of the character (including national character) has its roots in our genes, it's pretty evident why the French and the Germans aren't that different, apart from their languages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
    And of course THE reference : the US and the Brits...
    ...
    This is an americanised view of France. Ridiculous.
    Why would you think that I take the USA as a reference culture ? I personally never mentioned the US or Americans once ! (I did quote a passage of EuroManagers comparing the Americans and French, but the author is neither).
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    My point of view cannot be an "Anglo-Saxon" one since I am a native French speaker with relatives in France
    Oh please Maciano, you take UK as a reference, it's obvious. You like France but not the French, that all...

    Same conclusion with the threads "Greatest contributions to the world", you forget to mention a lot of French "contributions", but the English one is full...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroche View Post
    Oh please Maciano, you take UK as a reference, it's obvious. You like France but not the French, that all...

    Same conclusion with the threads "Greatest contributions to the world", you forget to mention a lot of French "contributions", but the English one is full...

    The problem is not the "Greatest contributions..." thread but the sociological threads like "Do the French lack humour" that are only made on Maciamo's personal impressions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroche View Post
    Oh please Maciano, you take UK as a reference, it's obvious. You like France but not the French, that all...

    Same conclusion with the threads "Greatest contributions to the world", you forget to mention a lot of French "contributions", but the English one is full...
    That's not true at all. The list of French contributions is the longest (along with the British) of the 16 lists I have made. I have used all the 20 fields available in the poll and had to pack as much as possible into each category. What would you have added to the list, and instead of what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spongetaro View Post
    The problem is not the "Greatest contributions..." thread but the sociological threads like "Do the French lack humour" that are only made on Maciamo's personal impressions
    So mistaken again. I thought I was clear at the beginning of that thread when I wrote "I admit that I prefer the French style of witty humour and wordplays to the light-hearted and self-derisory British humour." I was actually contesting what the Economist wrote.

    Anyway, I think that the reactions of the French members to this thread have shown another facet of the French mentality : they cannot accept criticism of their culture because they see it as superior to other cultures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    So mistaken again. I thought I was clear at the beginning of that thread when I wrote "I admit that I prefer the French style of witty humour and wordplays to the light-hearted and self-derisory British humour." I was actually contesting what the Economist wrote.

    Anyway, I think that the reactions of the French members to this thread have shown another facet of the French mentality : they cannot accept criticism of their culture because they see it as superior to other cultures.
    Why should anyone accept criticism, if one knows that an opinion is valid and true.
    Americans and English often offend the French, I don't understand why.
    The Belgians, are a bunch of imitators of French and Dutch culture, or even German!!!
    Goddamn! Be proud of your own culture!

    My ancestors are Celts, and come from Belgium and Northern France for sure!
    I am proud of it, NOT to be Dutch or Belgian, but CELTIC!

    If there is one country in Europe that wounded continental Europe with many wars over and over again, it's the English. Or the Normans. The Vikings and the Saxons.

    Did you ever read some history?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bertrand View Post
    Ricardo,
    During the final of the world cup 2006 (France - Italy) I was on an italian cruse ship in the Mediteranean.
    So I watched and cheered my team (France) alone with my wife in the middle of thousands of Italians. I can tell you, Italians are quite chauvinistic when it comes to their team. When Zidane head quicked the Italian, I thought they would throw me overboard.

    Also dont talk to an Italian about Mona Lisa because as a frenchman you might be treated just short of a thief...

    I guess in a sense every country wants to be respected; if one country starts to believe that someone else is trying to take over, the locals will draw the claws; the question is how deep is that chauvinism and under pressure how hard will you fight to defend your way of life....
    Riccardo*
    You made a typical Spanish mistake, they use to call me Ricardo. xD
    Anyhow, if we're talking about football ok, you're right, and add that there's a BIG rivalry beetween Italy and France. But it's really rare to find a chauvinist Italian! The most of us think that Italy is full of problems and Italians are full defects, on the contrary of many people that I heard from other countries.

  8. #58
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    I said that your point of view is anglo-saxon because YOU started this thread by quoting english or american writers. Because wherever you come from, YOUR guideline is definitely an anglo-saxon one. And I stand by my previous comment or please just bring anything serious to discuss this point of view, anything else that "I come from Wallonie..."
    Beside, that only answer you gave leads to the question of your own identity. And the fact that you discovered very late and painfuly (I quote you : "I would never have agreed that the Francophone Belgians are so similar to the French, but viewed from a distance it is painfully obvious") that your culture was also (well actually it's "mainly" and not "also") French gives some answers to why these contradictions toward the French culture. You're just pissed to be so French ! So be Belgian. Maybe it's impossible... but that's another question.

    I've been out of France in many countries. I lived outside Europe. Maybe not as often as you. Maybe, but who cares. It's not a contest. Everyone has his own experiences but it doesn't seem that everyone has the same abilities to analyse a culture...
    Ah that's just rich to say that I didn't quote Indians, Thai, Chinese or Papuans because ...you did not either, as far as I noticed you 're good at quoting english books, not much more.

    You seem to stress one needs to have a critical point of view but your only words about French culture are negative ones. I started to give some positive aspects of the french culture without denying the negative ones. You can go on if you are of goodwill and are as neutral as you claim...
    Don't pretend to be surprised if people react with criticism toward you. 1/Because it's unfair from your part to stress only the negative aspects. Or just rename the thread, please. 2/Because your critics are typical anglo-saxons ones that are to be read in every (bad) book about France written from an English journalist or a pseudo-neo-ethnologist traveling from Saint Germain des Près to Provence to buy overpriced wine and complaining about the coffee (yes, there are not many Starbucks in France, dear !).

    All your text about my so-called comparison between France and Germany is totaly irrelevant. 1/ I never said that French and Germans are the same. 2/ your point about Paleolithic times is just pedantry that doens't bring anything intelligent to this conversation. And I don't even talk about your pseudo ethno-genetic analysis cause it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.
    You are able to start a thread about "the French culture" and then say : 'it's pretty evident why the French and the Germans aren't that different'.
    Well, in my opinion, that seems enough to disqualify you for talking about the whole thread.
    3/ well, you simply contradict yourself. I quote you again : "France is a very vertical society, where people look up to the boss, and speech is very formal and distant. It contrasts with the much more egalitarian approach of Germanic people". I replied saying : it's not true, France has similarities to "Germanic" countries. And now you tell me that: "it's pretty evident why the French and the Germans aren't that different". ... Well make up your mind !

    So, what I don't like is :
    - that you present and insist only about negative trends.
    - that you try to pretend things are simple when they are actually much more complex.
    - that you adopt a strong anglo-saxon point of view (you quote only english books). And the fact you don't really now what your own culture is gives some answers.
    - that you pretend to have a "neutral" approach when you are biased and that "criticism is healthy". That is true but only when it's constructive but that's not your case.
    - so I feel you are simply not honest. Maybe you're not even honest with yourself, first.

    Last thing :
    Maybe French people tend to see their culture as superior. Maybe I do in some extend. Maybe I am just honest and know what the good sides and the bad sides of my culture are. Maybe it's just my culture and I can't change it anyway. And I am very critical toward the French culture.
    But to see it's own culture as superior is the case of every country in this world, dear. (Did you really travel with open eyes/ears and brian and met anyone) ? What is typical French for me is to think that "it's typical French to be proud of our own culture". In other terms, French are proud but tend to be the only ones to be ashamed to be proud. And then tend to be very critical towards themselves, wich is a kind of auto-destructive culture. This is the French culture we're living in.

    Thank you

  9. #59
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
    Maciamo

    I said that your point of view is anglo-saxon because YOU started this thread by quoting english or american writers.
    I didn't quote any American writer. Anyway I had to quote something in English for the purpose of this forum, as it is in English only. Stop wasting my time.

    You're just pissed to be so French ! So be Belgian. Maybe it's impossible... but that's another question.
    I am fed up with this kind of petty behaviour. I see myself as European and I am proud of my multicultural background (genetic, linguistic or other), be it French, German, Dutch or English. But you just got yourself banned for pissing me. Next time think before attacking the admin of a forum in your second post.

    Ah that's just rich to say that I didn't quote Indians, Thai, Chinese or Papuans because ...you did not either, as far as I noticed you 're good at quoting english books, not much more.
    Have you read all my posts on the forum, and my articles outside the forum (including the France Guide) and my other forums in link (Japan Forum and China Forum) ? Once you have read everything come again. I don't know you as you just signed up here, but you can know me and my opinions very easily. So before you make stupid assumptions about me, just read a bit of context before.


    3/ well, you simply contradict yourself. I quote you again : "France is a very vertical society, where people look up to the boss, and speech is very formal and distant. It contrasts with the much more egalitarian approach of Germanic people". I replied saying : it's not true, France has similarities to "Germanic" countries. And now you tell me that: "it's pretty evident why the French and the Germans aren't that different". ... Well make up your mind !
    It's hardly a contradiction. It's because you are uneducated. Germanic countries are essentially Scandinavia, the Netherlands and North Germany. Most of Germany was originally Celtic, and it is now Celto-Germanic, like Britain or Belgium or Northern and Eastern France. Simple people are easily deceived by words. It's not because a country is called Germany that it is the source of Germanic people (not any more than France is populated in majority by Frankish people). You cannot possibly understand anything I write if you make this kind of mistake. See things for what they truly are, not what people call them. To illustrate this, it's not because I write in English and quote works in English that my point of view is English (or "Anglo-Saxon" as the French stupidly insist on saying, although the Anglo-Saxon where an ancient tribe from North Germany/Netherlands, not any modern group of humans ; that is a term that annoys me every time I hear it).


    So, what I don't like is :
    - that you present and insist only about negative trends.
    You will note that I have so far only written threads about the French and the Belgians (in this series) because they are the two cultures that I know the most intimately. That's also why I am more comfortable criticising them. But I don't understand how you can perceive everything I wrote here as negative. You are oversensitive. Saying that the French are râleurs or like complicated things (and actually that also applies to French-speaking Belgians - same mindset) is not exactly a well guarded secret, nor a personal opinion - it is more like a well-accepted truth among French speakers themselves. No administration is more complex than the French and Belgian ones. No people on earth are more ready to complain about work or go on strike than French speakers.

    - that you try to pretend things are simple when they are actually much more complex.
    Do you want me to write a book ? How many of my threads or articles about France have you read ? All of them ? Have I been less critical of other countries ? You should try reading some of my articles about Japan or the USA ! I don't write enough positive stuff about France ? What about the list of greatest French contributions (all of them my suggestions), or when I earnestly defended the French when the Americans accused them of being cowards because they opposed the war in Iraq ? You are the kind of person who judges a book by opening a page in the middle and quote things out of context, except that here the book is Eupedia and the page is this thread. How do you expect to be taken seriously ?
    Last edited by Maciamo; 06-10-11 at 09:54.

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    Je continue en Français, après tout le linge sale se lave en famille^^

    Tout d'abord je tenais à te préciser que nos remarques ne contiennent aucunes agressivités d'aucunes sortes, du moins je n'ai pas l'impression qu'il y en ait dans nos messages respectifs.
    Ensuite ce n'est pas que l'on refuse d'être critiqué mais je trouve personnellement que tu nous charges énormément, pour toi nous sommes:
    Arrogant
    Fier
    Chauvin
    Feignant
    Râleur
    Condescendant
    On est intolérant envers ceux qui parlent mal notre langue
    Même tarif pour les étragners aux forts accents
    Elitiste
    On rigole des gens dans leurs dos
    On est trop formel
    Notre langue est trop rigide
    Etc...

    Ca fait beaucoup quand même, non?
    En plus tu nous dis ici même que l'on n'accepte pas les critiques, or on ne rejette pas TOUTES les critiques (oui on est chauvin/râleur/fier), mais certaines d'entre elles me semblent injustifiées et d'autres sont de vieux stéréotypes.
    A la limite si tu faisais subir le même traitement de faveur aux autres pays je ne dirais rien, mais ce n'est pas le cas. La France est le seul pays pour lequel tu as créé autant de sujets aussi critiques.

    Et concernant les topics "Greatest contributions..." tu t'es parfaitement appliqué pour celui de l'Angleterre et j'approuve tout ce que tu y mentionnes, c'est un très grand pays et tu as parfaitement choisi leurs plus beaux cadeaux, mais ce n'est pas la même chose pour nous, désolé.
    Tu listes "la pétanque", "teffal", "la chanson Française" ou "la mongolfière", pourquoi?
    Pourquoi ne pas avoir cité le système métrique, la chimie avec Lavoisier qui a découvert et listé presque tous les éléments connus, la médecine en générale (surtout la vaccination avec Auzias-Turenne et Pasteur), l'organisation des premières coupe du monde de rugby et de football, les innovations sociales ou encore l'encyclopédie?
    C'est quand même plus valorisant qu'un sport marginal ou qu'une invention obsolète.

    Enfin, ce n'est que mon avis^^
    Last edited by Gavroche; 06-10-11 at 12:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    To illustrate this, it's not because I write in English and quote works in English that my point of view is English (or "Anglo-Saxon" as the French stupidly insist on saying, although the Anglo-Saxon where an ancient tribe from North Germany/Netherlands, not any modern group of humans ; that is a term that annoys me every time I hear it).
    Quite rightly, to refer to the modern English as Anglo/Saxon is inaccurate and usually displays an ignorance and bias on the part of the person who uses it.

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    Et aller ça continue

    The term "Anglo-Saxon" is sometimes used to refer to peoples descended or associated in some way with the English ethnic group. The definition has varied from time to time and varies from place to place.
    "Anglo-Saxon" can be used in a variety of contexts, often to identify the English-speaking world's distinctive language, culture, technology, wealth, markets, economy, and legal systems.

    Germans says "Franckreich" and not "France", ignorance or stupidity? Make your choice^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroche View Post
    Tu listes "la pétanque", "teffal", "la chanson Française" ou "la mongolfière", pourquoi?
    Pourquoi ne pas avoir cité le système métrique, la chimie avec Lavoisier qui a découvert et listé presque tous les éléments connus, la médecine en générale (surtout la vaccination avec Auzias-Turenne et Pasteur), l'organisation des premières coupe du monde de rugby et de football, les innovations sociales ou encore l'encyclopédie?
    C'est quand même plus valorisant qu'un sport marginal ou qu'une invention obsolète.

    Enfin, ce n'est que mon avis^^
    Ok, merci pour les recommandations. Je vais remplacer Téfal et la pétanque par les scientifiques français (il y a la même catégorie pour les Britanniques) et le système métrique.

    La première encyclopédie remonte à l'antiquité, notamment avec Naturalis Historia par Pline l'Ancien (bien qu'il y ait pu y en avoir d'autres perdues à ce jour). La 1ère encyclopédie moderne peut être attribuée à Chambers avec sa Cyclopaedia en 1728. L'Encycopédie de Diderot et d'Alembert de 1750 fut plus proche du vrai encyclopédie moderne, mais pas autant que l'Encyclopædia Britannica, publiée in 1768, qui sera republiée en 15 édition sucessives jusqu'en 1900, et qui fut la vraie première encyclopédie multi-volumes.

    Pour l'organisation des 1ères coupes du monde de rugby et de football, j'avoue n'être un fan d'aucun de ces deux sports, mais d'après Wikipedia la 1ère coupe du monde de football fut organisée en Uruguay en 1930. Il n'y a pas vraiment de coupe de monde de Rugby vu le peu de pays pratiquant ce sport, mais la première compétition internationalle fut organisée entre l'Angleterre, le Pays de Galle, l'Ecosse et l'Irelande en 1883.

    En ce qui concerne les innovations sociales, je suis sûre qu'il y en a, mais lesquelles ? Je suis tout ouïe. Ne vas pas me sortir les 35 heures, hein.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroche View Post
    Et aller ça continue

    The term "Anglo-Saxon" is sometimes used to refer to peoples descended or associated in some way with the English ethnic group. The definition has varied from time to time and varies from place to place.
    "Anglo-Saxon" can be used in a variety of contexts, often to identify the English-speaking world's distinctive language, culture, technology, wealth, markets, economy, and legal systems.

    Germans says "Franckreich" and not "France", ignorance or stupidity? Make your choice^^
    Mmm, the definition is as inaccurate as the use of the term. There is no longer a Anglo/Saxon language, culture, wealth, market, economy nor legal system and I don't think I have ever heard it used in any of these contexts. In my experience, the term Anglo/Saxon is (more often than not) used as a derogatory description for the English or those of English or partial English descent.

    But, as you say, ignorance or stupidity? I think both........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroche View Post
    Et aller ça continue

    The term "Anglo-Saxon" is sometimes used to refer to peoples descended or associated in some way with the English ethnic group. The definition has varied from time to time and varies from place to place.
    "Anglo-Saxon" can be used in a variety of contexts, often to identify the English-speaking world's distinctive language, culture, technology, wealth, markets, economy, and legal systems.
    Only French speakers refer to the English-speaking world as Anglo-Saxon. It is extremely common in France (I hear it everyday on TV), but simply not used by other people because it is confusing as well as historically and linguistically wrong. British people do not descend exclusively or even in majority from the Anglo-Saxons. Most of the Scots and Welsh are first and foremost of Brythonic descent. The English are more Germanic, but also because of their Danish ancestry (Jute, Viking, Norman). In any case, genetics has now proven that even the English are only about half Germanic. Altogether, it is likely that less than one quarter of the genes in Great Britain are of Anglo-Saxon origin. It is all the more wrong to refer to Americans, Canadians or Australians as Anglo-Saxons, since only a small fraction of their overall ancestry is English (Australians, who have the highest proportion of ancestry from the UK, is actually predominantly Irish and Scottish, with very little English ancestry).

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    La première Coupe du monde de football a été organisé en Uruguay, oui, mais c'est sous l'impulsion de Jules Rimet (alors président de la FIFA) et du journal l'équipe qu'elle naquit.
    D'ailleurs la coupe en elle même s'appellait "le trophée Jules Rimet".
    Si on considère Pierre de Coubertin comme l'instigateur des jeux Olympiques modernes je ne vois pas pourquoi Jules Rimet n'aurait pas le droit au même traitement de faveur pour le football...

    C'est à peu près le même topo pour la Coupe du monde rugby.
    Alfred Eluère et Albert Ferrasse sont les premiers à avoir proposés l'idée mais se sont heurtés aux refus des Anglo-saxons pendant presque 50 ans, et c'est grâce à la détermination de Ferrasse qu'elle fut organisée amenant le rugby vers le professionnalisme, chose que ne voulait pas l'IRB.

    Pour l'encyclopédie je te l'accorde, ce n'était qu'une esquisse, dommage^^

    Pour les innovations sociales je pensais plus aux "congés payés" et à la "couverture maladie universelle" apparus durant la révolution Française de 1936. Peut-être que d'autres pays l'ont inventé avant mais je n'ai pas trouvé de sources mentionnant le contraire.

    Concernant les 35 heures je pense en effet que c'est une bonne chose...
    Au vu de la tournure de ta phrase j'en conclus que tu es très sceptique sur cette idée mais pour moi cela montre que tu n'es pas de ma génération (j'ai 30 ans) et que par conséquent tu n'as pas dû connaître la gallère du chômage.
    Je suis sorti du système scolaire à 21 ans avec un BTS, motivé mais manque de bol le secteur du bâtiment était en roue libre et n'embauchait pas. Résultat plus d'un an de chômage...
    Peut-être que c'est utopique mais se dire que l'on pourrait limiter le temps de travail de chacun pour permettre à d'autre de pouvoir bosser c'est plutôt altruiste je trouve, mais très peu d'entreprises l'appliquent.
    Et je suis actuellement aux 35 heures (vrai 35 heures pas un truc bidon qu'on peut voir dans d'autres bureaux d'études), et je gagne suffisemment ma vie.
    Le deuxième gros point positif des 35 heures c'est que depuis que ça a été mis en place notre taux de natalité augmente chaque années et est le plus fort d'Europe (il me semble).
    Pourquoi? Parce que les familles ont plus de temps pour faire et élever des enfants, c'est aussi bête que ça.
    Je suis d'accord pour dire que ce système ne peut pas marcher à tous les échellons de notre société, un cadre supérieur ne pourra jamais s'y soumettre, mais pour le petit ouvrier, l'infirmière ou pour l'humble employé de bureau que je suis ça nous suffit amplement.
    La majorité des gens travaillent pour gagner leurs vies, pas pour se faire un maximum de pognon.

    Et franchement je ne comprends pas votre réactions quand à l'utilisation de l'expression "Anglo-saxon"...
    On l'utilise dans différents contextes et tous ceux qui ont un minimum de connaissance historique savent que c'est un dérivé d'un ancien therme désignant un ancienne tribut, arrêtez de nous balancer vos cours d'histoires parce que là vous nous prenez vraiment pour des cons...
    Ca a des sens différents suivant le contexte dans lequel on l'utilise, ça n'existe pas ce genre de cas dans les autres pays?
    Et si vous pensez que cela vous donne le droit de nous traiter d'ignorants ou dire que l'on est stupide pour ce genre de chose et bien allez-y, ce n'est plus moi qui vais vous retenir, salut

  17. #67
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    Only French speakers refer to the English-speaking world as Anglo-Saxon
    Not only French speakers...

    ""All I can say about my own experience is that in the anglo-saxon working culture...""...this sentence have been written on this forum by "Cimmerianbloke", a german...

  18. #68
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavroche View Post
    Not only French speakers...

    ""All I can say about my own experience is that in the anglo-saxon working culture...""...this sentence have been written on this forum by "Cimmerianbloke", a german...
    Cimmerianbloke is a French-speaking Belgian living in Germany.

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    Oops...

  20. #70
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    Il y a comme une erreur !
    Ce thread est bourr de clichs et de lieux communs.
    Les Franais ne sont pas de culture "latine" !
    La France est compose de beaucoup de rgions qui ont chacune leurs spcificits.
    La France ne peut pas tre compare systmatiquement avec l'Italie, l'Espagne ou le Portugal.
    La France partage des traits culturels vidents avec la Belgique ou l'Allemagne.
    Ces clichs sont insupportables.

  21. #71
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    It's a mistake. The French are not "southern europeans" but western europeans. And also not "latin". C'est un cliché, un "lieu commun", une "idée reçue" comme on dit en français.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 07-05-13 at 15:37. Reason: encoding problem

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by riri52 View Post
    It's a mistake. The French are not "southern europeans" but western europeans. And also not "latin". C'est un clich�, un "lieu commun", une "id�e re�ue" comme on dit en fran�ais.
    France is is a stange that starts from ancient times to modern,
    as most of European cultures is a mix (Gascon, Gaulish, Germans Normands and Northern Celts etc)
    the unification started after Carlomagnos when he gave his son a teritory like modern France but took heart and bones at France revolution and Napoleon's wars. after that France become one nation.
    Surely France as Spain and Portugal is not Latin but has enough Latin and belongs to Latin family of languages.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  23. #73
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    My opinion is that there are 4 main cultures in Europe.
    1)Romance speaking countries cultures. Italy and France have very similar cultures. World class art, architecture,culinary sciences and hard sciences. France has some Germanic elements. Both cultures are hard to penetrate. The only cultures to my point of view, where English speaking culture has had minimal penetration. Both cultures are not imitating English speakers.
    2)Germanic culture. Discipline and hard work as the spine of this culture. Hard culture to replicate. Without a doubt successful culture but has not many admirers, since many view the Germanic culture as military democracy.
    3) English culture is a successful culture with many Germanic and romance elements. The best value of this culture is its openness. The most successful culture in history. Tremendous impact in every country's culture.
    4)Every one else culture. This countries are trying hard to copy English speaking culture, with few local flavors.

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    Probably Marianne tried going too far, some centuries after the defeat of Vercingétorix, she tried to breakaway from the Imperium Romanum, that adventure received the name of Imperium Galliarum, and lasted a little more than a decade , curiously was probably the first time than Marianne and some part of the British Isles were politically united and some time later with the famous Norman Invasion,also it was part of L'Empire carolingien, like has been explained in detail by Maciamo, but after many centuries of being a super a power or the signature of Les traités d'Utrecht en 1713 , qui inaugure la primauté du français comme langue diplomatique it could be notice in the contemporary world that la lumière is not so bright anymore.

    Maybe, Marianne says Je t’aime and probably the rest of the world answer Moi non plus, but after 89 minutes ,I still consider L’atalante a refreshing intellectual Chef-d'œuvre.
    Last edited by dony; 19-02-14 at 09:08.

  25. #75
    martiko martiko's Avatar
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    There is no more beautiful country that his country, my country is France.
    Without prejudice because it is not the land of my father and not the country of my mother.
    So come in France! thank you. The French are well-educated people.
    Last edited by martiko; 27-02-14 at 00:24.

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