• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

2 Sioux Women's DNA Results

T

Tomenable

Well-known member
Messages
6,030
Reaction score
1,753
Points
113
Location
Poland
Ethnic group
Polish
Y-DNA haplogroup
R1b-L617
mtDNA haplogroup
W6a
 
It is interesting that they are in 59% descended from the first wave of Paleo-Indians (USA_Nevada_SpiritCave_11000BP) and in 41% from a later wave (USA_Ancient_Beringian). Did anyone expect such a high contribution from a second wave?
 
I tried to replicate the same model which Andrei proposed using G25 coordinates, the result is similar:

Target: Sioux(n=2)
Distance: 2.7709% / 0.02770929
60.6 USA_Nevada_SpiritCave_11000BP.SG
39.4 USA_Ancient_Beringian.SG

Coordinates used in TARGET:

Code: 
Sioux(n=2),0.0569115,-0.296027,0.109931,0.084949,-0.098172,-0.0124105,-0.217737,-0.260412,-0.0111465,-0.0191345,0.003735,-0.000225,0.0030475,0.0074315,-0.009229,0.0059665,0.0046935,-0.0004435,0.0051535,0.0014385,-0.005553,-0.0003705,0.000678,0.001506,0.00485

Coordinates used in SOURCE:

Code: 
USA_Ancient_Beringian.SG,0.0415455,-0.304659,0.086549,0.0828495,-0.087555,-0.0198015,-0.1226755,-0.1524165,-0.0188165,-0.019408,0.005521,-0.008393,0.0080275,-0.011285,-0.010654,0.0023865,0.000326,0.0107685,0.0022,0.0143195,-0.006239,0.0058115,0.0104145,0.004097,-0.0011975
USA_Nevada_SpiritCave_11000BP.SG,0.047806,-0.319892,0.122941,0.097869,-0.108328,-0.01506,-0.280368,-0.32814,-0.012885,-0.020046,-0.003085,0.004946,-0.001041,0.01913,-0.008686,0.004906,0.003781,0.00076,0.004148,0.005378,0.007237,-0.001855,0.001109,0.001205,-0.001317
 
But if we use Kennewick Man instead of Spirit Cave, then already much less of Beringian is required:

Target: Sioux(n=2)
Distance: 2.9420% / 0.02941954
93.4 USA_WA_Kennewick.SG
6.6 USA_Ancient_Beringian.SG

TARGET:

Code: 
Sioux(n=2),0.0569115,-0.296027,0.109931,0.084949,-0.098172,-0.0124105,-0.217737,-0.260412,-0.0111465,-0.0191345,0.003735,-0.000225,0.0030475,0.0074315,-0.009229,0.0059665,0.0046935,-0.0004435,0.0051535,0.0014385,-0.005553,-0.0003705,0.000678,0.001506,0.00485

SOURCE:

Code: 
USA_WA_Kennewick.SG,0.045529,-0.307705,0.107857,0.079781,-0.104019,-0.019243,-0.22373,-0.263758,-0.013294,-0.01549,0.00065,-0.004796,0,0.014863,-0.009229,0.01074,0.006258,0.010515,0.009804,0.003252,0.004118,-0.00779,-0.006039,0.003012,-0.003473
USA_Ancient_Beringian.SG,0.0415455,-0.304659,0.086549,0.0828495,-0.087555,-0.0198015,-0.1226755,-0.1524165,-0.0188165,-0.019408,0.005521,-0.008393,0.0080275,-0.011285,-0.010654,0.0023865,0.000326,0.0107685,0.0022,0.0143195,-0.006239,0.0058115,0.0104145,0.004097,-0.0011975

So Kennewick was already largely descended from the 2nd wave. It shows that this 2nd wave was very ancient.
 
Tomenable said:
It is interesting that they are in 59% descended from the first wave of Paleo-Indians (USA_Nevada_SpiritCave_11000BP) and in 41% from a later wave (USA_Ancient_Beringian). Did anyone expect such a high contribution from a second wave?
Click to expand...
In my PowerPoint on Chinook history, it said that there were no living descendants tested positive of Ancient Beringian. Now that is no longer the case.
Thanks so much for bringing this up. :)
 
It appears that Ancient Beringian peaks in Native Alaskan and Athabaskans.
What do you think Tomenable? :)

IMG_2111.jpeg
IMG_2112.jpeg
IMG_2113.jpeg
 
Here is what my Step-Dad got, he is 1/4 Chinook Métis. :)
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2114.jpeg
    IMG_2114.jpeg
    145.2 KB · Views: 155
  • IMG_2115.jpeg
    IMG_2115.jpeg
    94.8 KB · Views: 143
Twilight said:
It appears that Ancient Beringian peaks in Native Alaskan and Athabaskans.
What do you think Tomenable? :)
Click to expand...
Yeah, this definitely makes sense, thanks for bringing this up!

BTW does your Step-Dad has any matches on GEDmatch who are fully Chinook, or perhaps other West Coast tribes?

West Coast tribes are rare on GEDmatch as far as I can tell.
 
Tomenable said:
Yeah, this definitely makes sense, thanks for bringing this up!

BTW does your Step-Dad has any matches on GEDmatch who are fully Chinook, or perhaps other West Coast tribes?

West Coast tribes are rare on GEDmatch as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...
You're most welcome. :)
Me and my Step-Dad are hoping to change that.

You see, the lack of samples is because a karmic wound; if you will.

It is a philosophical crime to dig up souls from graves; when the White Man were digging archeological bodies; like Kennewick Man.
When you are digging up bodies, you are denying the deceased soul's right's to rest; to pour salt in the wound folks in the 19th-20th centuries fug up graves to measure skulls to determine race.
That was until the Kennewick Man's court case came along, then skull measurements were demoted to fresh murder investigations only.
My argument is that Kennewick Man decided to wake up with a Caucasian skull to set the stage for YDNA and MTDNA haplogroups being the norm.

With YDNA and Mtdna, scientists no longer need
to dig up bodies to determine migration history. YDNA and MTDNA only requires permission from the souls of living people. :)


Offer:
I got a beta map on YDNA Q-M3 and C-P39's history in my slideshow. The beta map was created using Mrs Paint. Would Eupedia like to clean up the maps to make them more eye candy? :)
There is a MTDNA chart that is in the works currently.
 
Last edited:
The Chinook have an oral history of taking their Nootka Canoes and sail on trading expeditions from Alaska to Mexico; some legends hint at 5 year expeditions to Japan to bring home Japanese or Ainu Wives.
Late Great-Uncle Gary tried to get the Chinook Federally recognized in the United States and Mexico based on the legends and almost did in 2001. However it feel on deaf ears by the Bureau of Indian Affairs; than 9/11 happened not long after.

If the Northwest Coast Native history can be documented using YDNA/MTDNA, I'm hoping that we can record an echo of the Chinook's legendary trading system; based among intermarriage between Chinook traders and trading partners from around the North American Pacific Coast. :)
 
So your uncle and step-dad are part of the Chinook Indian Nation? Why was its federal recognition rescinded?
 
Tomenable said:
So your uncle and step-dad are part of the Chinook Indian Nation? Why was its federal recognition rescinded?
Click to expand...
Bill Clinton passed the torch to George Bush Jr. shortly after, it was determined by the New Administration that there was no one spot. Plus when you trade, you make a few enemies and friends here and there.

I warmly have called the Chinook "The Vikings of the West", this civilization traded along the Pacific Coast. So when it was time to shove Native Americans into Reservations. Oftentimes the traders would get caught in the crossfire and with reckless disregard, end up forced to assimilate into communities far away from home.
Today the Chinook share approximately 7 Reservations with other tribes in the Columbia River and many Native Alaskans like the Tlingit have Chinook Wawa as their official 2nd language.

Without heavy archeological digs in the Pacific Northwest due to taboos, it was unfortunately hard to prove that the oral history of a trading system even existed so Recognition was declined.

However, arrowheads have shown up as collected and dated by us White men in the 19th-Early 20th Centuries and have been cataloged by projectilepoints.com . The website has been a valuable source for cross referenceing With FTDNA in the slideshow.

As an example. Apparently the Nesphalem Tool Industry was dated when Athabaskan and Algonquian YDNA C-P39 lineages were sporadically going their separate ways between 2400 BC-400BC. :)
 
I thought that the Haida were "Vikings" rather than the Chinook?
 
Tomenable said:
I thought that the Haida were "Vikings" rather than the Chinook?
Click to expand...
I was speaking through oral history and their plunder exploits; I maybe embarrassingly showing my bias :). I never really knew my Biological Dad due to a Domestic Violence incident when I was 1, my Step-Dad had raised me when I was 3 and I'm listed as Adopted among the Shoalwater Bay Reservation.
The Seattle Public Library introduced me to a paper trail of my Biological Dad's family in my Senior year in High-school causing me to create this account on Eupedia. :)

Back on topic

The Northwest Coast is home to a few Civilizations that also took part in the trading network. :)

Providing you with some links to the Chinook's economic lifestyle. :)

Since the rescinding of recognition in 2001, Middle Villiage is a Chinookan Villiage that has been under excavation since the 4th Grade; 2004.

https://chinookstory.org/chinook-fishing/

The Chinooks - Discover Lewis & Clark

To Lewis and Clark, the Chinooks were the people living on the north side of the Columbia River's estuary along Baker Bay.
lewis-clark.org lewis-clark.org

chinookstory.org

Middle Village

“Regarding the name Chinook, it is a Chehalis word that is specific to people on the north shore of the mouth of the Columbia River. It later became a name that was given to all of the Chinoo…
chinookstory.org chinookstory.org


Middle Village (Station Camp) - Lewis and Clark Trail Experience

Alongside highway 101 and the Columbia River lies Middle Village, the site of a Chinook village where 36 houses once stood. The Chinook people inhabited this village where the river meets the ocean for thousands and thousands of years.
www.lewisandclark.travel www.lewisandclark.travel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top