Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum

View Poll Results: Should abortion be legal?

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • No - it is against God's will

    6 10.00%
  • No - it is murder

    6 10.00%
  • No - it is against the unborn child's rights

    6 10.00%
  • Yes - but only if the mother's life is in danger

    10 16.67%
  • Yes- but only if the mother's physical or mental health is in danger

    9 15.00%
  • Yes - in cases of rape

    15 25.00%
  • Yes - if the mother is underage

    11 18.33%
  • Yes - as long as it's early

    20 33.33%
  • Yes - it's better than bringing an unwanted child into the world

    19 31.67%
  • Yes - it should be entirely the woman's choice

    25 41.67%
  • Yes - it's just another form of contraception

    3 5.00%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 96

Thread: Should abortion be legal?

  1. #51
    DON'T PANIC! Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tsuyoiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-05
    Posts
    979


    Country: United Kingdom





    Quote Originally Posted by Kinsao
    Mycernius, I appreciate what you are saying about disability. But I feel that reflecting this attitude in abortion laws/debates sends out a message about what we, as a society, think about disability and people with disabilities.
    Aborting because of disability makes me uneasy too, particularly since I work with disabled people. I know someone who aborted a foetus because it had spina bifida. That made me really sad, as I have a student with spina bifida, and he is a wonderful, happy person. But at the same time, I support her decision as she would not have coped with a child with such severe disabilities. I think she did the right thing, but I still feel upset about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mycernius
    What we have to watch out for is when the state starts to have a say in this. Just imagine what Nazi Germany would have been like if they had the technology to determine whether the unborn was fit to be born.
    I think this argument is important, and it goes the other way. The state has no right to decide that a foetus should be aborted, and equally should have no right to decide that a woman cannot choose to abort. The idea that a state can say a woman must have a child when she doesn't feel able seems very wrong to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverbackman
    I think it should be entirelly a woman's choice up to 4.5 months. Afterward I think it is immoral because it is closer to birth than not being born (as 4.5 months is the midway point between birth and conception).
    I think that's a pretty good idea. It's unlikely that a baby is ever going to be born that early, and although it is arbitrary it makes a kind of sense. It also addresses Ragedaddy's point about determining the time of conception. Even if the woman is more pregnant than she thinks, there is going to be little danger of aborting a viable foetus if the limit is 4.5 months.

  2. #52
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan



    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuyoiko
    The state has no right to decide that a foetus should be aborted, and equally should have no right to decide that a woman cannot choose to abort. The idea that a state can say a woman must have a child when she doesn't feel able seems very wrong to me.
    Just to argue this, what is your reasoning that the state cannot say a mother must deliver the child rather than abort it? The state can say it is wrong to murder a newborn, but based on what? We must have an ethical model to work with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuyoiko
    I think that's a pretty good idea. It's unlikely that a baby is ever going to be born that early, and although it is arbitrary it makes a kind of sense. It also addresses Ragedaddy's point about determining the time of conception. Even if the woman is more pregnant than she thinks, there is going to be little danger of aborting a viable foetus if the limit is 4.5 months.
    Why that time? What makes it immoral after, and not before, both do exactly the same thing?
    "The whole purpose of religion is to facilitate love and compassion, patience, tolerance, humility, forgiveness."
    --H.H. the Dalai Lama

  3. #53
    DON'T PANIC! Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tsuyoiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-05
    Posts
    979


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Revenant
    Just to argue this, what is your reasoning that the state cannot say a mother must deliver the child rather than abort it? The state can say it is wrong to murder a newborn, but based on what? We must have an ethical model to work with.
    Consider an analogy. I need a kidney transplant and you are a suitable donor. I will die without the transplant. You have been told that you can survive with only one kidney, but there will be considerable discomfort and disruption to your life. Should the state have the right to force you to give me a kidney?
    Quote Originally Posted by Revenant
    Why that time? What makes it immoral after, and not before, both do exactly the same thing?
    I don't think I said it would be immoral after that time, but that (although fairly arbitrary) it seems a sensible limit to minimise the possibility of aborting a viable foetus.

  4. #54
    Junior Member Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Indiana Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-11-03
    Posts
    1






    Options 1, 2, and 3 from the top.

    A person is a person. If we ask "Should abortion be legal?" Then we should also ask...

    Should it be legal for abortion Dr's to roam the streets with tongs, knives, saline injections, and other implements of their trade targeted at people who are working, shopping, and otherwise going out their daily business?

    Should it be legal for abortion Dr's to break into homes with tongs, knives, saline injections, and other implements of their trade targeted at children who are at play or in a crib?

    As long as we go this far; Should it be legal for abortion Dr's to go about with guns ready to knock off anyone who any other person doesn't wish live any longer? Such as, "Say I've got this really annoying colleague at work. doc, can you just take care of him / her for me?"

    This may all seem really far fetched, but it fits in the same catagory. A life is a life, no matter the age.

  5. #55
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered
    bossel's Avatar
    Join Date
    28-09-03
    Location
    germany
    Posts
    790


    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Indiana Gardener
    Options 1, 2, and 3 from the top.
    [...]
    This may all seem really far fetched, but it fits in the same catagory. A life is a life, no matter the age.
    Quite far fetched, yes (but not un-expected: when I saw your nickname I just had the feeling something like this was going to come).

    Life is life? Hmm, I thought, this thread showed that it's not quite so simple.

  6. #56
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-10-05
    Posts
    154


    Country: Russian Federation



    Very much a complicated question and to it is possible only full knowledge of all circumstances for everyone personally,only it is necessery to remember,that everyone after a life,the meeting God waits and there to answer...
    Aborting - it aborting... of life...

  7. #57
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan



    Necromancy I know, but I have a new argument, and I just wanted to put it forward.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Obviously there is cause and effect, and we cannot look at just one moment, and not take into account the cause and effect of things. That would be like a father spending all the college money on gambling, cause his ten year old son said he didn't need it, nor wanted it. Even though the child doesn't want, or feel he needs the money now, we can infer that he very well may want to use that money later, when he changes his mind, and he actually wants to use that money.

    We can infer that an unconcious or comatose woman, upon awakening, would condemn the person who had sexually assaulted her while she was unconcious or comatose. The woman however during the actual time of sexual assault is not protesting, or condemning the man doing this to her. It has nothing to do with what is happening in the here and now.

    Let's look at a pregnant mother who drinks. Can we infer that the child, after it is born, will not like the fact that the mother drank, and that he now has physical deformities because of his mother's choice to drink? The child at the time of the mother's drinking was but a fetus (the fetus had no thoughts, no self awareness, and of course felt no pain, it wasn't protesting in the slightest), and the drinks ingested at the wrong time of pregnancy disrupted the development of the fetus (I do speak from personal experience on this one, as my birth mother drank (I am adopted), and I have severe varicose veins as a result, besides some other odd vascular abnormality, to which I do not understand, cause it was diagnosed in Japan, and they do not speak English well enough to explain it exactly to me).

    So a fetus does have future views that we can infer, therefore it would be wrong to drink during pregnancy. It all follows along the golden rules of 'do unto others as you would have done unto you'. If you wouldn't want to have some sort of physical abnormalities, then one can also infer that a fetus in the future would also not want this as well.

    So we can indeed infer future thoughts, views, and abilities.

    So then, if one aborts a child, we can indeed infer that the child wouldn't have wanted that to happen, after all, I wouldn't want to be carved up like sushi and scraped out. If one attempts to circumvent this, by simply negating the entity, then one is indeed trespassing on the future views of that entity, since we have already established that future views can be inferred, and that that future view would be that the child would have wanted to keep his/her life.
    Last edited by Revenant; 12-01-06 at 19:38.

  8. #58
    FIGHTING FOR JPOP Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Dutch Baka's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-02-05
    Location
    amsterdam
    Age
    34
    Posts
    340


    Ethnic group
    dutch
    Country: Japan-Hyogo



    I think it should be legal, on special condititions, that it can only be when the woman is less then 2 months pregnant. we live in a world were people make big mistakes, people think easy about sex, not using condoms.

    When a woman is pregnant, and its sure that she can't take care of the baby, she can also let the baby be adopted by somebody. (nowadays people even sell baby's....) so i think when something is completely hopeless, when somebody is being raped, and younger then 2 months...

    just a question, from how many weeks does a unborn child starting to shape form, feeling?

  9. #59
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan



    I thought I should add that I do support abortion in some circumstances, obvious one being if the birth would likely end in the mother's death, or if the fetus was determined to have some genetic defect that would result in it living a life of suffering. Perhaps some other instances, but those two can I think off the top of my head.

  10. #60
    FIGHTING FOR JPOP Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Dutch Baka's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-02-05
    Location
    amsterdam
    Age
    34
    Posts
    340


    Ethnic group
    dutch
    Country: Japan-Hyogo



    Nowadays you can test your unborn child on things( Things is the wrong word, but I cant find a better word for it, my excuse for that), and one of them is the down syndrome, when you know this, would you still want a child like this?

  11. #61
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan



    It isn't something that I would wish for, but the life of a down syndrome child, to whom I know would want their life should not have their existence hinged upon my wishes. At least I would take care of the down syndrome child, doing my best to take on Marcus Aurelius' philosophy, “Accept the things to which fate binds you, and love the people with whom fate brings you together, but do so with all your heart.”
    Last edited by Revenant; 12-01-06 at 18:30.

  12. #62
    Big city - too tired Achievements:
    1 year registered
    トラちゃん's Avatar
    Join Date
    09-01-06
    Location
    Tokyo
    Age
    33
    Posts
    6


    Country: Japan



    I personally don't have anything against abortions.
    In saying that it is still not a nice thing. I'm only young so yet to experience fatherhood in any sense.

    The only people who think abortions are a good idea are those who are already born
    There is no substitute for cheese.

  13. #63
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Nicky's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-01-06
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    20


    Country: United States



    I picked:
    Yes - it's better than bringing an unwanted child into the world
    Yes - it should be entirely the woman's choice
    I think if abortion was illegal, women would just go back to the old coat hanger trick. If it must be done, I'd rather they have it done in a doctor's office.

  14. #64
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    20-01-06
    Posts
    16


    Country: United States



    Religon shouldn't interfere with law.

    The natural rights is all up to definition of when "life" starts.

    I don't agree with abortion if the baby has already created a CNS, however if the mothers life is at risk, I would rather have the mother whom life IMO is more important, survive than the baby, who even at birth could still die.

  15. #65
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registered
    nurizeko's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-01-05
    Location
    aberdeen, scotland
    Age
    34
    Posts
    149


    Ethnic group
    Half scottish half Germanic, i got blood from austria, germany, scotland england, im a mongrol.
    Country: United Kingdom



    Thats an interesting point rev, but void, because to be aborted, the potential to become human-life is gone, how can it not want to be aborted if it already has been, and was never self aware enough to remotely understand the concept let alone make a decision.



    Simply: Its totaly the decision of the individual involved if they want an abortion or not, religion smaligion, its meaningless, modern society works like this: you dont have to abort unwanted pregnancies if your religion tells you to, however you have no say whatsoever over what another individual completely unrelated to you wants.

    The alternative is another world war, where the forces of secularity and science totaly nuke the s*** out of the religious sects, and stands over the charred smoking remains of civilization to begin again un-interupted.

    At least the way it works now, everyone gets to live their life their way within the accepted norms and laws of general secular society.

    That secular society respects your right to religion, respect our right to abortion, and you can continue to pray to god, if not, then...war, death, horrible mess, ruins everyones day, and no more religion.

    Not a threat, dont get me wrong, im not wanting war or anything, but, thats the only other solution i see, all im seeing lately is religion banging heads with religion, or against secularism, and if religious folk dont start being more respectful of everyone elses rights, its going to end in a war, and i feel religion would be the loser in this conflict....how many vets who have seen their buddies head blown off believe in god, or like him?, exactly.

  16. #66
    Your Goddess is here Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Ma Cherie's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-03-04
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    469


    Ethnic group
    African American
    Country: United States



    This is kind of off topic perhaps, but I was wondering how does anyone feel about the use of RU-486? It's a medicaded way to have an abortion without going through the surgical process.
    “All right then, I’ll go to hell”―and tore it up. It was awful thoughts and awful words, but they was said. And I let them stay said; and never thought no more about reforming.
    The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
    by Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens)

  17. #67
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan



    Nurizeko, I know that the fetus' potential is gone after an abortion, and that whatever views it might have had is also gone. But we can without much, if any doubt know that fetus would not want to have the mother drink during pregnancy, and would condemn the mother for having done so when it is old enough to have a say. We can also know that a fetus would also want it's life.

    I would say it is very wrong to drink during pregnancy. But even at that, a child like myself who was affected by drinking during pregnancy would still value life. So if it immoral to affect a fetus' future life by drinking, how much more immoral is it to negate it? I would say a lot more.

    BTW, I do not belong to any religion, so that entire religion spiel doesn't speak to all pro-lifers.

    Does anyone understand my logic, or even agree with it?

  18. #68
    Horizon Rider Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Kinsao's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-05-05
    Location
    England
    Age
    40
    Posts
    592


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Cherie
    This is kind of off topic perhaps, but I was wondering how does anyone feel about the use of RU-486? It's a medicaded way to have an abortion without going through the surgical process.
    RU-486 is horrible.

  19. #69
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registered
    nurizeko's Avatar
    Join Date
    19-01-05
    Location
    aberdeen, scotland
    Age
    34
    Posts
    149


    Ethnic group
    Half scottish half Germanic, i got blood from austria, germany, scotland england, im a mongrol.
    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Revenant
    Nurizeko, I know that the fetus' potential is gone after an abortion, and that whatever views it might have had is also gone. But we can without much, if any doubt know that fetus would not want to have the mother drink during pregnancy, and would condemn the mother for having done so when it is old enough to have a say. We can also know that a fetus would also want it's life.
    I would say it is very wrong to drink during pregnancy. But even at that, a child like myself who was affected by drinking during pregnancy would still value life. So if it immoral to affect a fetus' future life by drinking, how much more immoral is it to negate it? I would say a lot more.
    BTW, I do not belong to any religion, so that entire religion spiel doesn't speak to all pro-lifers.
    Does anyone understand my logic, or even agree with it?
    Maybe, i dont, sorry, but its the same as saying something like "but this lump of clay is precious because it can be formed into fine pottery and then burried in the earth for a long time so its really rare and stuff."

    A fetus may have the potential to become a fully formed sentient and (hopefully) intelligent person, but at the present it is just a a fetus, a lump or rough form of cells, it neither breaths or feeds for itself or thinks or in anyway acts independent of the woman its growing in.

    If the prospective mother wishes an abortion, it is her legal right to it, i dont know how more easily to explain it, i respect the pro-life point of view, but if people cant respect the live and let live system of society the west has, then we might aswell return to stone-age barbarism (though the stone-age probably didnt have any pro-lifers or animal lovers and stuff...).

  20. #70
    DON'T PANIC! Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tsuyoiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-05
    Posts
    979


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Cherie
    This is kind of off topic perhaps, but I was wondering how does anyone feel about the use of RU-486? It's a medicaded way to have an abortion without going through the surgical process.
    I had never heard of it, so I found this info. It doesn't sound too bad, kind of similar to the morning after pill. Although I would never have an abortion anyway (except for life-threatening reasons), I certainly wouldn't choose this method, as you would see the embryo. Reading that bit really upset me - especially at six weeks when it already has eyes, apparently.

  21. #71
    ★ ガゼット (/ ^^)/ ★ Achievements:
    1 year registered
    -rika- shinya`'s Avatar
    Join Date
    18-12-05
    Age
    31
    Posts
    16


    Country: Hongkong



    in my opinion, abortion should never be legal unless it is a rape case/the mother's life is in danger. as for 'better than bringing an unwanted child into the world', if no person in your family will love the baby, there is always another family wanting to adopt a child. it's sad denying it life just because of the mother's selfish needs. i don't have anything against them, but..it's just not right to me

    ◆ 戒 is teh rabu (*^^) ノ ◆

  22. #72
    Your Goddess is here Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Ma Cherie's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-03-04
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    469


    Ethnic group
    African American
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuyoiko
    I had never heard of it, so I found this info. It doesn't sound too bad, kind of similar to the morning after pill. Although I would never have an abortion anyway (except for life-threatening reasons), I certainly wouldn't choose this method, as you would see the embryo. Reading that bit really upset me - especially at six weeks when it already has eyes, apparently.

    RU-486 isn't like the "moring after pill". Thanks for that information by the way. It's a misconception to call it a "morning after pill" because it's taken in doses instead of just taking one pill. Besides, it's commonly used as a contraceptive, and there seems to be a misconception about the use of it. While RU-486 is used to abort the fetus non-surgically, the "moring after pill" is used to prevent pregnacy.

  23. #73
    DON'T PANIC! Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Tsuyoiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-03-05
    Posts
    979


    Country: United Kingdom



    Quote Originally Posted by Ma Cherie
    It's a misconception to call it a "morning after pill" because it's taken in doses instead of just taking one pill. Besides, it's commonly used as a contraceptive, and there seems to be a misconception about the use of it. While RU-486 is used to abort the fetus non-surgically, the "moring after pill" is used to prevent pregnacy.
    Sorry for not being clearer - when I said it was 'kind of like the morning after pill', I meant in the sense that it is a pill you take usually at home without any medical supervision, with effects that are similar (though more severe) to the morning after pill.

  24. #74
    Azzuro Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    12-01-06
    Location
    near Frankfurt
    Posts
    59


    Ethnic group
    Half german half english
    Country: Germany



    If both mother and father of the unborn child agree on abortion it should be legal.
    If only the mother can be contacted the mother should make the decision.
    If the health of the mother is threatened in any way the the child should be a decision made by the doktors.
    But if the mother of the unborn child was just beeing uncarefull ,while having sex and there is no reason for abortion if you ask me unles she is under age.
    Kommunism is like Carneval in Cologne everyone is drunk an no one works...

  25. #75
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registeredTagger Second Class

    Join Date
    14-04-10
    Location
    america's last eden
    Posts
    332
    Points
    39
    Level
    1
    Points: 39, Level: 1
    Level completed: 78%, Points required for next Level: 11
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    PROUDLY AMERINDIAN!
    Country: Chile



    NO.

    it's a murder.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Abortion: Pro-life or Pro-choice?
    By Golgo_13 in forum Opinions
    Replies: 117
    Last Post: 30-08-18, 03:16
  2. Abortion Rights for underage girls
    By Mycernius in forum European News & Hot Topics
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 04-07-11, 09:01
  3. Catholic church vows to excommunicate abortion supporters
    By Maciamo in forum European News & Hot Topics
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 20-02-07, 19:28
  4. 1 pregnacy out of 5 ends up in abortion in Brussels
    By Maciamo in forum European News & Hot Topics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-09-06, 11:10
  5. Legal help
    By ax in forum Other Serious Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-01-05, 15:51

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •