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View Poll Results: How should we use animals?

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52. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1.1 Eating meat is OK

    45 86.54%
  • 1.2 Eating meat is wrong

    7 13.46%
  • 2.1 Using products from live animals (e.g. dairy) is OK

    42 80.77%
  • 2.2 Using products from live animals (e.g. dairy) is wrong

    6 11.54%
  • 3.1 Testing on animals for medical purposes is OK

    35 67.31%
  • 3.2 Testing on animals for medical purposes is wrong

    11 21.15%
  • 4.1 Testing on animals for cosmetic purposes is OK

    9 17.31%
  • 4.2 Testing on animals for cosmetic purposes is wrong

    38 73.08%
  • 5.1 Using animals in circuses is OK

    21 40.38%
  • 5.2 Using animals in circuses is wrong

    24 46.15%
  • 6.1 Keeping animals in zoos is OK

    36 69.23%
  • 6.2 Keeping animals in zoos is wrong

    13 25.00%
  • 7.1 Hitting pets is OK

    13 25.00%
  • 7.2 Hitting pets is wrong

    29 55.77%
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Thread: Animal Rights

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoinLover
    ::::sigh::::, this thread reminds me of a vegan friend on this forum. I totally disagree with him, unfortunately, but he's naitve japanese and very nice.
    He is way out there. He made a song that was in english and translated it into japanese:
    07:03 pm - Meat Is Murder
    Heifer whines could be human cries 雌牛の鳴き声は人間の泣き声
    Closer comes the screaming knife 金切り声で叫ぶ小刀
    This beautiful creature must die 美しい生き物が死ななければならない
    This beautiful creature must die 優しい生き物が死ななければならない
    A death for no reason 理由もなく殺されている
    And death for no reason is murder だから理由のない殺しは殺人と同である
    And the flesh you so fancifully fry 君が空想の中で焼いている肉体は
    Is not succulent, tasty or kind 肉汁たっぷりでも、おいしくも、優しくもない
    It’s death for no reason 理由のなく殺された死体である
    And death for no reason is murder 理由のない殺しは殺人と同じである
    And the calf that you carve with a smile 君が微笑みながら子牛は切り分ける行為は
    Is murder 殺人と同じである
    And the turkey you festively slice 君がお祭り気分で七面鳥を着る行為は
    Is murder 殺人と同じである
    Do you know how animals die? 動物がどうやって殺されているか知ってる?
    Kitchen aromas aren’t very homely 台所の臭いは家庭的ではない
    It’s not comforting, cheery or kind 居心地良くも、明るくも、優しくもない
    It’s sizzling blood and the unholy stench 茹だるような血と不自然な臭いで満ちている
    Of murder 殺人が行われた後のね
    It’s not natural, normal or kind 自然でも、普通でも、優しくもない
    The flesh you so fancifully fry 君が空想の中で痛めている肉体は
    The meat in your mouth 君の口の中にある肉は
    As you savour the flavour 君が味を付けたものだ
    Of murder 殺人が行われた後にね
    No, no, no, it’s murder 違う、違う、違う、肉食は殺人と同じ
    No, no, no, it’s murder 違う、違う、違う、肉食は殺人と同じ
    Oh ... and who hears when animals cry? あれ・・・なんで動物達の叫びを聞く人はいないの?
    What's interesting is he can write almost perfect english, but reading sites like CNN is a different story.
    Since he had to translate this song from english TO japanese, I was wondering how fluent the translation is? 違う is interesting, as it means literally in japanesese as "Wrong, wrong, wrong" than in english "No, no, no"

    You know, I should thank this guy...

    ...I'll have to sing this song the next time I'm cooking up a wokfull of curried beef.

    "Savor the flavor of murder" eh?

    The things is, I'm the kind of person who prefers to make his own moral judgemnents--regardless of what anyone else thinks of them.

    One of my old signatures from an anime site was: "If downloading anime is wrong, I'm happy to be a villain."

    Likewise, if eating meat it wrong, I'm happy to be a villain. Heck, I'd kill the cow myself if I could--but as I can't afford to own cattle that's not possible.

    I guess what it comes down to is that you can think what you like about people, but we are going to like what we are going to like--be it meat, drugs, violent videogames, porn, stealing, or just about anything else.

    That's why I've always considered it important that governments not legislate issues of morality--because one man's depravity is another's fun, and all you really succede in doing by passing laws against this and that is label another group of people "criminals". It's better to keep that to an absolute minimum, in my opinion.

    Now, stealing affects other people directly, so it makes sense to make it illegal for purely social reasons--but even many things which are currently ilegal could have their negative social impact significantly reduced or even removed by other means without criminalizing it.

    In fact, under certain circumstances, even the social impact of theft isn't entirely negative.

    That doesn't really answer the question of "is this moral"--but what we should really be asking ourselves is:

    "Do I think this is moral?"

    and

    "Do I care?"

    But before you decide: "I think this is wrong, therefore nobody should do it", you should ask yourself whether you approve of facism first.

    Just something to think about...
    Baka ningen.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    Hitting pets (lightly) like dogs or cats is sometimes necessary, as it is with children, to make them understand that they have done something wrong. In fact, it's difficult to have authority and respect from some dogs without hitting them once or twice and shouting on them to scare them enough so that they understand who commands. My in-laws can't do that and their dog does mischiefs all the time. I tried my methods, and the dog not only behaves in my presence but seem to regard me as the master now (a bit embarassing as it's not my dog).
    I am against testing on animals for cosmetic purposes, but probably for testing for medical research, as it can saves uncountable lives in the future.
    Agree, Medical research I think is okay, with of course 1000 of conditions...
    the hitting thing yeah, Correction hit..
    Keeping animals in a Zoo, is only when they can not live in the Wild.
    Nice thread.. as you do many times

  3. #53
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    I don't think we are at the stage where medical research involving live subjects including animals can be abandoned.

  4. #54
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    animals shouldnt have rights, there made to be eaten

  5. #55
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    The right to be baked, barbequed, broasted, braised, fried, grilled, or sauteed...? LOL that is not much of a right.

    Has anyone had this experience: I had a strange discussion with one of the "vegetarians" on campus that was trying to tell me that fish was not meat. She also said that chicken- although it was an animal, is not as "bad" as "meat." I couldn't agree. My friend Larry who is a "real" vegetarian said that she was a little misinformed.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    animals shouldnt have rights, there made to be eaten
    We are animals. Does that mean you are made to be eaten?

    Ha!


    "Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."
    --Albert Einstein

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward
    We are animals. Does that mean you are made to be eaten?
    Ha!
    This site explains it all so I dont have to:
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=animals

  8. #58
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    大きいアメリカ人
    That page was....interesting?

    By the way, what does your name mean? It looks like "big deal" or something to do with big or big hearted and merit?

  9. #59
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    Its suppose to mean FatAmerican but im not great at japanese and probably messed it up.

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    I got the big part (fat) but let me sound out the American part a little more carefully...

    I guess at some level I am meant to be eaten. Either at my death or shortly thereafter whatever the carnivores don't eat, decomposer will surely get...except that if they bury me, first they embalm my sad corpse so that no self respecting worm or bacterium would want it...so I might as well be creamated, so basically all these wonderful proteins, amino acids, calories from fat, micronutrients, minerals and carbohydrates will all go to waste.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    This site explains it all so I dont have to:
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=animals
    LOL!

    It sure did explain that he is "tired." I guess so with all the ranting. He should calm down, because his elevated heart rate along with his rage could cause him to have a heart attack and then there would be one less meat eater on the planet.

    Though, it really was funny. I almost sensed fear in his words that the ARists were going to take away his steak. However, we are little by little achieving victories.

    In due time, in due time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    Has anyone had this experience: I had a strange discussion with one of the "vegetarians" on campus that was trying to tell me that fish was not meat. She also said that chicken- although it was an animal, is not as "bad" as "meat." I couldn't agree. My friend Larry who is a "real" vegetarian said that she was a little misinformed.
    That is one of the most frequent questions I am asked when I tell someone I'm a vegetarian - "Do you eat fish?" Of course not! Fish, chickens, beetles (as in red cochineal food colouring) - they're all animals, so I don't eat them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    This site explains it all so I dont have to:
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=animals
    For every site like that, there's one like this: http://www.wordwiz72.com/veg.html

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    Thank you Tsuyoiko, that site was a little more sensible and it also explains Mr.Phillips-- she obviously is a pesci-vegetarian who cheats with chicken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward
    LOL!
    It sure did explain that he is "tired." I guess so with all the ranting. He should calm down, because his elevated heart rate along with his rage could cause him to have a heart attack and then there would be one less meat eater on the planet.
    Though, it really was funny. I almost sensed fear in his words that the ARists were going to take away his steak. However, we are little by little achieving victories.
    In due time, in due time.
    I eat meat every day, its probably 75% of my diet. (Other 25% being candy products). No one, and I mean no one is going to take meat away from me, they would have to kill me because I would go on a mad mans rampage with a 44 in PETA HQ.

    I consiter it disturbing people wishing for the death of human beings for the sake of animals, those people are scum. Animals are not people, they are not on the same level as people, and those who believe they are need to be comitted.

    I dont necessarly "hate" animals, as I have a dog, and a cat, but I do not consiter them my equals. People who do seriously need to get a reality check, animals exist simpally for the food, service and entertainment of human beings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward
    We are animals. Does that mean you are made to be eaten?
    Ha!
    Yes.

    Ask any crocodile or shark (... or in lean times, any grizzly bear, cougar, wolf, hyena, ... or even another human ...! ).

    W
    If you haven't been a Communist by the time you're 40 - then you don't have a heart.

    If you're still a Communist after the age of forty - you don't have a head ....

    (Denis Healey)

    If you're still a communist after the age of sixty ... you're coming to your senses again ....

    (Sensuikan San)

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    Ahhhh to hear only half of an argument. I hesitate to become involved...

    Interesting thought about the "humans are not supposed to eat animals" and they should live to be 100 argument: It doesn't seem to serve much of an evolutionary purpose to live past the nominal breeding age. There is no genetic advantage to living longer. Living past 100 actually places an evolutionary drag on the species. I also wonder about the specific micro-nutrient deficiency caused by avoiding meat and enzymes that we produce to break down meat if they are some evidence that meat has been a part of our diet for quite some time. Does anyone have more specific information on this?

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    I voted eating meat is fine, life on earth has been doing it since the first single celled organism started chowing on their smaller neighbours, and it will be doing it long after the last remenants of humanity and vegetarians have faded to dust.
    If eating meat is wrong, ill gladly point anyone forcing vegetarianism on me to the nearest carnivore cage at the local zoo. As someone mentioned about his cat, its a bit rich accusing humans meat needs as murder when animals like cats can kill and toy with a mouse then leave it there because it cant be arsed eating it.
    And before its brought up, i highly doubt cats learned this "unatural" bevahiour from their human owners, watch animal planet any given time a documentary is on with a carnivore in it and chances are there will be footage of it killing something, then leaving it to rot.

    Testing on animals for medical purpouses is okay i think, aslong as its done as friendly as possible, testing on animals for cosmetics is sick and i would never tolerate it.

    Hitting animals malicously is wrong, the odd light disciplinary hit is fine.

    This site explains it all so I dont have to:
    http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=animals
    I know maddox's "best page in the universe" article when i see one, funny stuff, and in regard to SVF's response to it, email your reply to maddox, and see how far you get, its not the first time SVF refers to someone as ranting.

    As for the fat american bloke (nice avatar) just ignore SVF.

    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...tfuldodger.htm

    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...tm/atheist.htm

    http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...ssrebutter.htm

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    Nurizeko,
    I like the sites you linked. Colorful and informative. I recognize that behavior not only in the person you refer to, but occasionally also in myself. I definitely have some OCD tendencies. I hope fat american will recognize the type of conflict he has engaged, and learn from this.

    Fatamerican, I also have diabetes, could you also eat some chocolate for me?

  20. #70
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    I eat it all the time and it never gave me diabetes.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward
    We are animals. Does that mean you are made to be eaten?
    Ha!
    Humans are animals, funny--I think I've heard that somewhere...

    Anyway, I'll go back to just watching this train wreck now.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    I eat meat every day, its probably 75% of my diet. (Other 25% being candy products).
    That is hardly going to convince anyone of the virtues of meat-eating!
    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    No one, and I mean no one is going to take meat away from me, they would have to kill me because I would go on a mad mans rampage with a 44 in PETA HQ.
    Most vegetarians, and probably most animal rights activists, are not trying to take your meat away. For most of us, vegetarianism is a personal choice that we would never force on others. My husband eats meat (although I won't cook it for him).
    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    I consiter it disturbing people wishing for the death of human beings for the sake of animals, those people are scum.
    Name-calling aside, I agree that animal rights activists should not resort to violence. The vast majority do not, and I don't support those who do.
    Quote Originally Posted by 傫AJl
    Animals are not people, they are not on the same level as people, and those who believe they are need to be comitted.
    I dont necessarly "hate" animals, as I have a dog, and a cat, but I do not consiter them my equals. People who do seriously need to get a reality check, animals exist simpally for the food, service and entertainment of human beings.
    This is your opinion. Others differ, and I find it unacceptable that you say they should be 'committed'. Please stick to rational argument.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    Interesting thought about the "humans are not supposed to eat animals" and they should live to be 100 argument: It doesn't seem to serve much of an evolutionary purpose to live past the nominal breeding age. There is no genetic advantage to living longer. Living past 100 actually places an evolutionary drag on the species. I also wonder about the specific micro-nutrient deficiency caused by avoiding meat and enzymes that we produce to break down meat if they are some evidence that meat has been a part of our diet for quite some time. Does anyone have more specific information on this?
    I accept that we needed meat to evolve as we have. It may also be true that being a vegetarian causes some nutrient deficiencies - but there are also many health problems that are aggravated by eating too much meat. A vegetarian who lives on lettuce leaves and a meat eater with a 75% meat/25% candy diet are setting themselves up for health problems. Anyone who eats a balanced diet, and cares about what they eat - whether or not that includes meat - is more likely to be in good general health.

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    Japan related (yaaaaay!) almost all the japanese ive seen are very thin and weak, a ceramic garden pot full of plants and stuff my girlfriends family bought once wasnt light but it wasnt heavy either, it was a good managable weight, and i could carry it quite comfortably with two arms, but my girlfriends family found it too heavy, and could only tolerate it for a short while.

    Japan is a country that is very heavy on plant intake, and meat is mostly bits of fish and other sea-critters.

    They say its a healthy diet and stuff, and japanese live lnoger but at what price, japanese seem to age fast and un-gracefully, japanese old ladies are very bent, and small, and japanese people dont seem to have much endurance or muscle strength.

    Of course this doesnt speak for all japanese, ive seen fat japanese and bulky japanese, but chances are these are the ones with high meat in-take.

    I might not live to 100, but at least with my natural omnivore diet, im physically in better shape then many japanese blokes my age ive passed.

    Their not collapsing but, i dont think being white is the reason im stronger, as ive said, ive seen some bulked up japanese blokes, and american-japanese seem much bulkier and fitter, so, there is alot to be said in favour of meat-including diets.

    I like tsu's vegetarian philosophy, live and let live.

    And also on a personal level, i find purely vegetarian diets kinda boring, as a "bloated fat rich cosy lifestyle westerner" ive grown used to enjoying my food aswell as it having nutritional value.

    (it was sarcasm, im actually quite fit, not rich, and i live in the blasted chill-wastes of scotland, if you can call that cosy your either an eskimo or a corpse ).

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    Quote Originally Posted by nurizeko
    And also on a personal level, i find purely vegetarian diets kinda boring.
    That's because you haven't tasted my cooking

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