What's your opinion on spanking children?

[GoldCoinLover]

In the early 80's and before then, spanking was thought to be good for children...Until the early 90's. Now many psychologist say that spanking your children will do more harm than good; At an early age, it tells them at hitting is okay. If mommy does it, then it must be right, right? That's why being a good parent is so important to children.

My parents are never consistant with discipline. In fact, they NEVER discipline me. And now I'm a selfish man. They'd spoil me. They wondered why nothing works, because they did it for a few days, and then gave up.

My pastor's friend who also is a religious extremist, very nice but VERY religious person. For example, she spanks her children all the time. She says it's right because the bible says it's great to spank children.

This is what she said:
I said:
"How do you discipline your children? They are so well behaved."
Her: "I spank them. Now, I know many people oppose this, but I don't hit them that hard, and after I spank them, I pray with them."

So, what's your opinioni on this?

[大きいアメリカ人]

The not beating children idea of the 90's is why this new generation of teens are irresponsible and stupid. I feel that a wooden paddle with some nice, long drilled holes in it will solve the problem faster that any psychological bullshit will.

[godppgo]

The not beating children idea of the 90's is why this new generation of teens are irresponsible and stupid. I feel that a wooden paddle with some nice, long drilled holes in it will solve the problem faster that any psychological bullshit will.

I am really interested in knowing which generation of teenagers are responsible and not stupid.

Teens ARE suppose to be irresponsible and stupid, thats why they're called teenagers not adults. A spanking on a teen's arse will only stop the teen from "acting" irresposible but won't change the teen's irresponsible and stupid nature one bit.

[GoldCoinLover]

I am really interested in knowing which generation of teenagers are responsible and not stupid.
Teens ARE suppose to be irresponsible and stupid, thats why they're called teenagers not adults. A spanking on a teen's arse will only stop the teen from "acting" irresposible but won't change the teen's irresponsible and stupid nature one bit.

Hmm, so I'm stupid? I may be irresponsible, but that's another story

Did I accidently say teens instead of children? I meant children (Under 13), sorry about that.

[Tsuyoiko]

I don't think it's as effective as people think. Teach children right and wrong, explain things to them - help them understand why their behaviour is wrong. Behaving out of an understanding of right and wrong is far better than behaving out of fear of getting hit. I think GCL is right that it teaches children to solve their problems with violence.

[Hachiro]

When I was a child my father used to not only spank my brothers and I but would make us drop our pants grab our ankles and then nail us with the closest inanimate object that was close by, a bicycle tire, 2x4 whatever, all my brothers and I have had the experience of getting literally nailed in the arse with a board with a nail sticking out of it. He used to give us the line....."This is going to hurt me more than you, and if you cry you are going to get double"....I feared my father more than I loved him and could not get out of the house fast enough when I turned 18. Anyway one thing he always said to us that stuck in my mind was..."My Dad did this to me so I am going to do it with you..."
My father was born in the early 1900's, lived through seeing his family's fortune die along with the depression, he had a difficult life until after WWII but never changed in the way he disciplined his children. I hated him for the longest time, particularly for the line "This is going to hurt me ............
Now I speed forward to 1986, my first child was born, I made a conscious decision that I was not going to continue the abuse that my father laid on to me. I swore I would not spank my child (now children) out of fear that I would end up saying and doing the same things to my kids.
I have spanked my children, with my bare hand, and bare hand ONLY, and the most that they have gotten was 3 or 4 wacks on the butt, with their clothes on of course. My point is that my kids know very well that it is very easy for me as their father to spank them when they have done something wrong to deserve it, but I rarely have to do it because they know that if they are honest with me and admit that they have done something wrong I am more willing to discuss it with them and dish out some other type of punishment besides a spanking.
I trust my children and try very hard to treat each of them as an idividual and not as a group, each of them has their own personality and different needs, coming from a large family I often felt like punishment was dished out according to the whim of my father, not for the severity, or not, of the transgression.
I have no need to spank my children, if they warrant it, they know it will happen but they do not fear me as I once feared my father. What I am trying to say is that parents need to let their children know what lines can and can not be crossed, spanking when justified can reinforce that to the child. Children will attempt to push that line every chance they get, and many parents, for whatever reason, allow that to happen.
In many instances it is not the child's fault for the problems they have but the parents unwillingness to punish their children for what they do wrong. Just talking to a child does not always work, once the child gets it into their head that no matter what they do, the only conscequences are a "talking to" and if they can put up with that, then they are scott free, they will do much that is wrong and cause many problems.
I think that there is a saying something like "The burned finger teaches best." and in many ways that is what a spanking is. Yet parents, imo, need to know that spanking a child when the parent is angry is just using that child as an outlet for their anger and frustration, I have NEVER spanked my children when I was angry, and I never will.
So in effect I have broken the generations trend, at least in my family, of using spankings as a way to make a child fear their parent(s). I do not suggest that everyone follow this, as each and every situation is different, I am just sharing what I experienced and how I choose to live with my children.
My kids know that I love them, I tell them often, and they also know what I expect from them as well. They are good kids and I am truly blessed.
Spankings are not violence as such as they are a tool for teaching, just talking, particularly to a young child that does not understand the conscequences of their actions is not enough. Parents tend to treat their children as adults when talking about discipline, but not so in other matters. I understand talking to a teenager, at least they can understand what you are saying, but can one honestly say that just talking to a child about a transgression will stick in the child's mind for any amount of time outside of the time it takes you to talk to them? Think about that, kids have short memories, but they will remember a well placed spanking and cause them to think twice the next time they choose to do something wrong, they have learned to think first. I suggest that people/parents learn to make the distinction between adults and children when talking about discipline.
To the OP GoldCoinLover, my opinion is this, spanking, not abuse, are two very different things, when you separate the two, one becomes a tool the other a crime. It took me many years to forgive my father in my heart for what he did to me and my brothers, if it was today and not back in the 60's and early 70's, he would be in jail, what he did was abusive not just spanking.
Sorry about getting long winded here.......

[Tsuyoiko]

Thanks for sharing Hachiro. You seem to have learnt from your experiences in a positive way.

Just talking to a child does not always work, once the child gets it into their head that no matter what they do, the only conscequences are a "talking to" and if they can put up with that, then they are scott free, they will do much that is wrong and cause many problems.

I don't think 'talking to' and 'spanking' are the only two options. My parents slapped me VERY occasionally - I can actually remember only one incident. They had all kinds of other punishments that were much more effective - such as stopping pocket money, grounding, making me go to the garden centre (I hated that so much), taking away my music, stuff like that.

[nurizeko]

From what i remember of spanks was simply wondering what i had done so terrible i deserved a red sore arse, from that experience i would say spanking kids just gives them the impression of unfair punishment (to be fair kids nthink all punishment is unfair).

I think spanking is more for the parent then the kid, parents dont understand their own strength, coupled with the fact kids dont have high pain thresholds, it just leaves a very upset child whos going to give you the hump.

The act of spanking helps the parent release some of the stress of the childs actions, its like relising youve made a mistake on a paper or something and punching your fist into your other hand, or smacking the table.

I think if parents try and think creatively, they can bcome up with much more effective punishments, smacking just makes them feel abused out of preportion to the crime they will barely understand, if at all, but hitting them where it hurts, something important to them, will really get them to prop up.

take away a favorate toy, and clearly explain at their level why your taking it away and for how long, and it should be effective, never take it away without saying how long, to a child that basically implies forever.

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

I was spanked as a child, so were all my brothers, but I cannot say that it's "helped" us in any way become "better" people or be more "mature" or allowed us to make "good" decisions. I got spanked a lot, not only was it tramatizing but it was degrading. I had to, like so many others, take off my pants, bend over my bed, and grit my teeth and bare it as my father/mother hit me with a thin, wooden rod (my father actually broke it once on my little brother) and before the rod it was a leather strap. It was so, unbelievably, degrading. And it made NO SENSE to me why my parents would hurt me so badly and then the next second be claimnig to love me. It drove a wedge between me and my parents for years because I did not believe for one second that someone who loved you would hit you even in punishment for something wrong that you had done.
I do not believe in spanking at all. I think it's wrong. How is "spanking" a child different from just plain hitting them? Because you're punishing them? Parents who physically abuse their children do it to "punish" them too.
I watch my aunt and uncle now raising their children and I am sickened whenever they spank their children. To hear children cry because of a physical beating even if it's "spanking" is incredibly hard to bare.
There are many, MANY other ways to punish children for wrong doing besides the degrading and mentally scaring form of punishment known as spanking. You are BEATING your children into submission, that is not healthy. It is distructive and it is degrading to the child. I am strongly against spanking. I think it is no different then child abuse because the parent is beating their child. No mattter how you slice it the parent is hitting their child with the intent and full knowledge of it causing pain for said child. That is child abuse.
I was very lucky in that when my parents left the church years ago they stopped spanking us. But the damage has already been done especially to my oldest brother who got it the worst.
I never want children. Because I don't want to hurt another human being physically or otherwise. I would much rather never have a child then have to live with the fact that I have forever scared my child.
Spanking, to me, is so wrong on so many levels. I will never forget the shame of it and just how degrading it was, I know I'm using that word a lot but it really was degrading.
And one strong memory I have is that in our old church the children used to compare what each other's parents hit them with. It was like a game to see who amongst us could take the most pain. Looking back on that it makes me sick. There was one girl whose father beat her with a leather belt using the end with the buckle to hit her. That is so sad and so unbelievable now but then it didn't even shock me. Because, although I hated it, I thought all parents hit their children. And how was I to know otherwise? I was surrounded by parents who spanked their children and some of them brutally I might add. It just makes me sick.

[MeAndroo]

I've been spanked with a hand, wire hanger, plastic baseball bat, and one of those wooden paddles with holes drilled in it. I never felt degraded or humiliated, and don't resent my parents one bit for doing it. There's a difference between a firm slap on the behind and physically beating someone. As a child, defiance isn't based on any sort of moral or ideological grounds; it's defiance for the sake of defiance, often over something extremely stupid. Sometimes a spank is the only way to get a child's attention.

I think the only problem with spanking children is that it isn't a practice that "works" for everyone. Some parents don't know how to properly utilize it and some children handle it differently. In the case of me vs. my brother, it had a positive effect on me, and perhaps a negative one on him.

[Kinsao]

I know of the difference between a couple of slaps just hard enough to hurt a little, and a real beating. It's totally inappropriate to hit a child hard. and of course it's difficult to judge what really hurts, what is enough for 'discipline', or over the top, or as light as to be ineffectual.

My parents only hit me a very few times. Like Tsuyoiko's parents, they were good at thinking up more creative punishments that would 'hurt' me more, psychologically. And they always took the trouble to explain exactly why I shouldn't have done whatever it was, why they were mad with me, and what precisely was the down-side for me, as well (a big motivator, naturally!).

Being smacked was actually used mostly for the humiliation factor, on me; again, that's the more psychological side. Most of the time there were other ways to make me feel ashamed/humiliated, without resorting to smacking.

Personally, I would not smack my children, the only exception being if I reacted fast to them moving into danger (e.g. near a fire or something) and reflexively shot out my arm to push them away.

[-rika- shinya`]

My parents weren't big on smackings. My dad has never smacked me and rarely scolded me (his LONG LONG lecture is already something worse than a punishment) but my mom has smacked a few times when i was little but only when i did something really bad. she didn't use anything other than hands though. and I'm very grateful she DID smack me then or I'd probably be hurt MORE than just the smacking.

Sometimes it is necessary to let them know the dangerousness of the situation, and never do that again. Thinking back, it never humiliated me but it only made me ashamed of my wrong actions and understand I did something terribly wrong. I wasn't an angsty child and they forgive pretty fast so afterwards everything will be normal and good again.

Most of the time, my parents usually think of other things to punish me. and an incident which stands out is that once they took away my phone for a few days. that's really terrible for me in that time. it sounds silly now i think of it but it made me regret what i've done back then.

I'd probably not smack my children next time but if something they did was dangerous, I will do it to make them realize the dangerousness of it.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

When I was a child my father used to not only spank my brothers and I but would make us drop our pants grab our ankles and then nail us with the closest inanimate object that was close by, a bicycle tire, 2x4 whatever, all my brothers and I have had the experience of getting literally nailed in the arse with a board with a nail sticking out of it. He used to give us the line....."This is going to hurt me more than you, and if you cry you are going to get double"....I feared my father more than I loved him and could not get out of the house fast enough when I turned 18. Anyway one thing he always said to us that stuck in my mind was..."My Dad did this to me so I am going to do it with you..."
My father was born in the early 1900's, lived through seeing his family's fortune die along with the depression, he had a difficult life until after WWII but never changed in the way he disciplined his children. I hated him for the longest time, particularly for the line "This is going to hurt me ............
Now I speed forward to 1986, my first child was born, I made a conscious decision that I was not going to continue the abuse that my father laid on to me. I swore I would not spank my child (now children) out of fear that I would end up saying and doing the same things to my kids.
I have spanked my children, with my bare hand, and bare hand ONLY, and the most that they have gotten was 3 or 4 wacks on the butt, with their clothes on of course. My point is that my kids know very well that it is very easy for me as their father to spank them when they have done something wrong to deserve it, but I rarely have to do it because they know that if they are honest with me and admit that they have done something wrong I am more willing to discuss it with them and dish out some other type of punishment besides a spanking.
I trust my children and try very hard to treat each of them as an idividual and not as a group, each of them has their own personality and different needs, coming from a large family I often felt like punishment was dished out according to the whim of my father, not for the severity, or not, of the transgression.
I have no need to spank my children, if they warrant it, they know it will happen but they do not fear me as I once feared my father. What I am trying to say is that parents need to let their children know what lines can and can not be crossed, spanking when justified can reinforce that to the child. Children will attempt to push that line every chance they get, and many parents, for whatever reason, allow that to happen.
In many instances it is not the child's fault for the problems they have but the parents unwillingness to punish their children for what they do wrong. Just talking to a child does not always work, once the child gets it into their head that no matter what they do, the only conscequences are a "talking to" and if they can put up with that, then they are scott free, they will do much that is wrong and cause many problems.
I think that there is a saying something like "The burned finger teaches best." and in many ways that is what a spanking is. Yet parents, imo, need to know that spanking a child when the parent is angry is just using that child as an outlet for their anger and frustration, I have NEVER spanked my children when I was angry, and I never will.
So in effect I have broken the generations trend, at least in my family, of using spankings as a way to make a child fear their parent(s). I do not suggest that everyone follow this, as each and every situation is different, I am just sharing what I experienced and how I choose to live with my children.
My kids know that I love them, I tell them often, and they also know what I expect from them as well. They are good kids and I am truly blessed.
Spankings are not violence as such as they are a tool for teaching, just talking, particularly to a young child that does not understand the conscequences of their actions is not enough. Parents tend to treat their children as adults when talking about discipline, but not so in other matters. I understand talking to a teenager, at least they can understand what you are saying, but can one honestly say that just talking to a child about a transgression will stick in the child's mind for any amount of time outside of the time it takes you to talk to them? Think about that, kids have short memories, but they will remember a well placed spanking and cause them to think twice the next time they choose to do something wrong, they have learned to think first. I suggest that people/parents learn to make the distinction between adults and children when talking about discipline.
To the OP GoldCoinLover, my opinion is this, spanking, not abuse, are two very different things, when you separate the two, one becomes a tool the other a crime. It took me many years to forgive my father in my heart for what he did to me and my brothers, if it was today and not back in the 60's and early 70's, he would be in jail, what he did was abusive not just spanking.
Sorry about getting long winded here.......

I agree with you Hachiro on the large part, but spanking can be such a grey area and I think the large part of it as far as concerning when it is justified or not, apart from how hard and often you do it and why you do it, you need to take into consideration more factors like wether the child has any behavioural problems like ADD(or ADHD or whatever you wanna call it) or other things like wether the child continues to commit the acts it got punished for over and over again etc etc�c

I can relate to your story between you and your father�fs family relationship with each other, because as far as I know my father experienced a very similar situation with his father(my grandfather) as to what you experienced with yours.
My grandfather also used to beat my father a lot, usually it consisted of a serious belting- my grandparents also used to apparently humiliate my father as well when he was a boy, for example, his older sister used to beat him up and they used to make fun of him for not being able to physically defend himself against a girl etc�c

Anyways, I always gathered that my father also made an effort not to repeat his actions with me and my brother, but things certainly weren�ft very straightforward or black and white a lot of the time.

It started long before my brother way born(he is 2yrs older than me by the way), my father always apparently wanted to have loads of kids, while my mother didn�ft want any at all.
Eventually, 8yrs after he married my mother, my mother got pregnant with my brother. One of the things my mum told me about my father once, was that the thing he feared the most was having a spasticated/brain damaged child.

My mother had a very difficult labour, it took days, and during her exertions both her and my brother died numerous times while she was trying to give birth. She tried giving birth naturally, but what the doctors at the time didn�ft know, was that her hips were fused together, making a natural birth impossible. Eventually, they cut her open at the last minute and she had a cizarian(honestly cant spell that) birth to get my brother out.
To say the least, my brother looked quite �gsquished�h when he was born, and my dad feared that he was brain damaged because he had died a couple of times while my mum had been trying to give birth to him- my dad never grew very attached to my brother partly because of this.

Raising my brother was relatively easy for my parents until I was born 2yrs later- because the doctors knew about my mums hip issues they could cut me out straight away and thus I never went through the ordeal my brother went through.
Unlike me, my brother was born with ADHD, and he was a nightmare to look after as soon as he realised he had a little sister, he made it his mission to quite literally kill me- this didn�ft actually stop until he went to full time boarding school at 9yrs old, even after that we fought very viciously for years after that.
My brother was constantly having temper tantrums, he was very violent towards me and he was ALWAYS getting into trouble- on top of that, he was a pyromaniac as a child and didn�ft seem to have any fear of pain or death, or for the large part, the consequences of his dangerous actions.

I was brought up on a farm quite literally in the middle of nowhere, my father did the large part of running the farm and spent as many as 16hrs a day working at times- my mum seemed to avoid me and my brother when we kids, although she preferred my brother on average and spent a lot more time with him- I don�ft actually really have any memories of her up until the age of 5, while I have memories of almost every one else as far back as 2yrs old.
My mum never disciplined my brother for anything, and soon my dad started finding it very difficult keeping control of my brother while he was at work, so he started spanking him a lot when he was at home- I was very easy for my parents as a child, I rarely did anything wrong and just kept myself to myself, I was apparently a very quiet child.
For the large part, my dads discipline worked ok, but only for short periods of time, but he started spanking my brother more and more and locking him up in his room for hours on end. My brother, well, I think it was partly because of his ADHD(which he didn�ft find out he had until he was 20yrs old), the spankings never seemed to do anything for the large part in the long run and because he continued to be a terror for most of his life, they just got worse.

My father was killed shortly before I turned 6, and my mother became very ill and fell into manic depression (which she is still recovering from to this day)- for the next couple of years she just stayed in bed while I looked after her, the house and my brother, and my brother just ran wild. My brother had no one to hold him back and so he just got more uncontrollable, and eventually my mum sent him to full time boarding school (a dyslexic one because he was also dyslexic) at 9yrs old because she just couldn�ft cope with him. I was just expected to cope.

Over the years my relationship grew really bad with my mum, while my brothers prospered (even though he was difficult to deal with, she was always attached to him, I think it was partly due to the fact that she and my dad had to spend so much time with him as a child)- I think it was partly due to her depression, and although she only went through a short phase of spanking me(most of the time I hadn�ft done anything wrong, but it was usually because my brother had stolen my food and we started arguing about it, and she just spanked us both because she got tired of trying to find out who started the fight, even though it was always my brother), she started to blame me from an early age for everything that had gone wrong in her life. She has/had�ca lot of mental issues�cshe has done a huge amount of things that were really awful to me, I could try and explain them to you although you probably wouldn�ft understand, because she just did them because she was ill, and not for any logical reasons.

I don�ft want to go too much into my life, I will probably bore you to bits with a 10ft long post anyways, so I�fm just going to say this was the jist of things until I left home at 16 and started my own life(went to college, got a job, etc).
Things are much, much better now, although all that has happened has left many scars in my family relationships that I think are going to take years to heal.

Anyhoo�c
My point in all this, is yes, I agree with your form of punishment/justice Hachiro for the large part, but you need to take into consideration certain things like wether your child might have learning disabilities, even if very small, as you could be punishing your children, and not giving them the desired psychological effects- for example, although I got spanked very little times as a child in pretty much exactly the same way you go about spanking your children, the spanking worked very well for me and I was very well behaved just for the sake of being well behaved as a child- my childhood with my father was very good. My brother on the other hand, had the opposite effect, and the spankings never did anything positive for him no matter how many times he got the same spanking for the same wrong act, he just did it again over and over again. You could have spanked your child numerous times for them doing the same sort of wrong act without even realising that it isn�ft actually taking effect in their minds.
I also agree though with you that spanking should always be a last resort after plenty of warnings that not only should you be in a good state of mind when you go about the act, but also in a good place.
For example I think its wrong to punish children in their bedroom or playroom or whatever, because it�fs a place they associate with positive feelings and memories, and not a place that should be associated with negative feelings or memories- I think you should always punish the child where they committed the wrong act if possible, also taking into consideration the child�fs associated feelings with that place.
I don�ft think taking away toys and things that belong to them that they love is good either, rather than taking something away from the child that is theirs, I think its far better to make them do or go through something they don�ft like, like being made to sit on the stairs for half and hour to reflect their actions, or being made to vacuum hoover a room etc.
At the same time, I think parents can often don�ft do enough rewards for their children when they do something right- for example, how often do you express how happy you are when they made their bed, draw a picture for you or get good grades etc?
If you tell them they are going to get a reward for something before they do it, it sort of defeats the point of working really hard at it as far as they are concerned- its far better to give them �gsurprise rewards�h when they are doing something good, as it will really motivate them to keep on doing the good work/actions.
Spending family time with your kids, is also very important- I think a lot of the bad things kids do are actually for a call for attention more than anything else. I think its excellent for parents to try and aim to go out with their kids somewhere at least once a week- I also think its good for you to spend quality time with your partner away from the kids at least once a week, even if only for an hour, as I think it helps create positive bonds between you and your partner and this will inevitably effect your kids.
I think part of why my parents had so many difficulties, was because they didn�ft spend enough time with each other to just relax and be happy, and thus they were always stressed, and this inevitably led them to snap a lot more when things went amiss etc.
What do you think?
(sorry about the long post !)

[Hachiro]

Tokis-Phoenix, wow, sounds like you have a ton of emotional baggage as well.

First let me say thank you for sharing your experiences here, it was a bit difficult for me to write what I did as even to this day I am still embarrassed by the way my father treated me as a child. Writing what I did brought back many memories that I thought I had forgotten.

I must say that I am blessed as my children are all fine physically, mentally and emotionally.

I don�ft think taking away toys and things that belong to them that they love is good either, rather than taking something away from the child that is theirs, I think its far better to make them do or go through something they don�ft like, like being made to sit on the stairs for half and hour to reflect their actions, or being made to vacuum hoover a room etc.

I agree with this and use it as well. I also, after discussing the "wrong-doing", particularly with my 12 year old son, give him the option to choose the punishment that he sees fit for the offense. The biggest thing though is him needing to understand that he did something wrong and needed to make ammends to remind him that errorneous actions have consequences and needs to think first before doing something. Once he understands that he did something wrong, there have been cases where he really didn't think what he did was wrong and in those cases there was no punishment, he chooses the punishment. It could be something like writing lines, or doing chores that he normally isn't assigned to for a set peiod of time, or no gameboy for a week, etc etc....He chooses it and we discuss between ourselves if the punishment fits and then stick to it. The point is that there is no mindless beatings and he also has learned that he is ultimately responsible for his actions.

I think part of why my parents had so many difficulties, was because they didn�ft spend enough time with each other to just relax and be happy, and thus they were always stressed, and this inevitably led them to snap a lot more when things went amiss etc.
What do you think?

That is a fact time spent together as a family, time spend individually with each child, and time spent alone with each other are all valuable and necessary in raising chidlren. Easy to say but in many cases hard to do.
We often play board games as a family on Sunday nights, or take one or the other children out for some parents time.

They have learned that no matter what happens between us we will always love each other. There may be times we dont like what each other may do to each other but there is always love between us, and love also means being responsible to each other and yourself.

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I think it is really great you can spend family time with your partner and children . As you said though it can be easier said than doen though, especially if you or your partner(or even both) have to work long hours to rake in enough money to support your family, but its still very important to have prioritys like spending as much quality time with family as posible even if its hard to do alot of the time.
Aside from spending time with family, its also important to allow yourself time on your on every now and then, because no matter how much you love your family, its important to be able to have a break from them even if its only an hour or 2- i guess what i am saying, is that punishing your children can be kind of pointless if you are stressed alot and thus snap alot more when things go amiss. I think this also ties in with the problem with parents spanking their children when they are fustrated or angry, as it can throw your own ability to judge things well out of the window when you dont feel in a good state of mind either.
Children should always come first in a family, but somtimes i feel that parents can somtimes not attend their needs properly enough as well, as parents are incredibly important too. Although it couldn't be helped with my dads death, my mum became very self scented during her depression in some respects, while also becomming overly concerned about us too, and although i know she tried hard to still be a good mum, somtimes i feel that by her trying to put us first all the time when we were kids, it inevitably had bad consequences on us with her feeling so miserable all the time- i think she stopped allowing herself to enjoy things in life because she felt guilty about it, but she also forgot that her happiness was just as important to us as children. Because of this way of her life, she obviously couldn't keep up with things alot of the time and just got worse/more depressed even more, and thus her abilitys to help us were damaged.
For example, my brother really benefeted from going to a full time boarding dyslexic school because the teachers there were able to give him the help he needed 24/7 and he started to build better friendships with other people there, but at the same time although my mother knew that he benefeted going to the dyslexic school, she also felt very guilty about it because she pretty much sent him there because she couldn't handle him alone anymore. Things could have turned really bad with my brother going there, like damageing his relationship with my mother, but thankfully they were good and he actually built a much better relationship with my mother once alot of her stresses/worrys were relieved by him going there and he was able to be understood by people that had experience with children like him.
My brother's ADHD has practically disapeared now days, the only thing it effects now days is his sleeping patterns, and because of going to the dyslexic school when a kid he understands his dyslexia alot more and is able to work around it, he's also a very intelligent man(his IQ is practically boardering on genius)- he still has a very good relationship with my mother and cares deeply for her, so i guess all in all things turned out pretty well for him.

Im still working on my relationship with my mum, but life is very good for me right now either way. I dont think i either want to have children though...I think part of it is because of things like ADHD run down my fathers side of the family, and even though i would probably know how to deal with an ADHD child if i ever had one, i know i would never be able to give even a "normal" child the attention they need 24/7 for years, even decades on end, throughout their life. I would probably spank a child in some of the various circumstances/situations we have discussed in this thread, but it would still be difficult for me to know i did exactly the right thing all the time, or not get stressed about it.
I've never had kids, i think though i'm probably right in saying though its very difficult for somone like me, who has never had kids, to judge on how another parent should deal with their kids especially as far as things like punishment are concerned, as raising children seems like such an incredibly demanding way of life and its not like parenting comes with a manual either- theres no experience that can be really like it apart from the experience itself. The closet i've ever come to raising life was probably some baby hamsters, chickens or fish- which is probably no where near like raising a human child!

All in all though, i think you will be a great father Hachiro to your children throughout their lives with the way you are dealing with things !

[Mitsuo]

I am completely against it. Hitting is hitting. Whether it's the face or the bum.

Kids can be disciplined in other ways. Not through violence.

[Miss_apollo7]

I am completely against it. Hitting is hitting. Whether it's the face or the bum.
Kids can be disciplined in other ways. Not through violence.

I think so too, although I am not an expert (no kids myself yet)..I have never been beaten - just plain oral arguments did it for me when I was a kid....I think I will try to do the same with kids too.....

[Maciamo]

There are other more effective ways of discplining children than hitting them. You could lock them in the cellar without light (an empty one, so that they don't break anything in return - that teaches them how jail must be terrible), or feed them only vegetables until they quieten down, or deprive them of presents on special occasions if they do not behave during a certain period...

I do not agree with removing finger nails with tongs or plunge their head in the toilet, though. This is really old-fashioned and should only be used with the most difficult cases.

[Silverbackman]

Locking up your kids seems like the best thing to do, but is that legal in developed countries? I thought it is considered abuse, even though that makes no sense. You can tell your kids to go to their room and ban them from coming out and that isn't abuse but just putting a key in the door is. What difference does it make? It is only beneficial because then you wouldn't have to worry about kids escaping from their punishment. It would also simulate a jail situation.

Maybe I am misinformed about this. Is it illegal or taboo to lock your kids in a clean environment for a limited amount of time as punishment in the developed world? Or is sending your kids to their room with video games, a big plasma TV with Digital Cable the only accepted method of punishment? Does anyone lock their kids up?

As for spanking, I think it should be a last resort when the child resists the non-violent punishment of grounding or whatever. If they try to escape as well. And it should be on a very thick part of the body (the butt or thigh) in order to avoid injuries. A wooden paddle seems reasonable enough.

[No-name]

Poke 'em in the eye. Shoot them in the foot with paintballs or pepper spray them.

My mother never hit me... although she did spank my brothers... Her greatest weapons were "the look" saying "I'm very disappointed in you" or if she was really angry "I've got seven kids. If I kill one, no one would ever notice." or "You don't have to listen to me, but then again I don't have to feed you."

[Sophialiu]

I don't agree to spanking the children, when they do something wrong, it may be the parents' less care, anyhow, we should communion with them gently.

[Padme]

To be honest, that's the way my parents used to educate us (my mum more than my dad).

When I was a child I didn't understand that. I feared my mum. When I grew older I understood that it was my mum who had a problem (which she has solves already). But all the same: we will never be close with each other anymore (although the horror ended already when I was about 15). She has hurt me too deep. Our relationship is destroyd and there's nothing we could do about that.

Anyone who thinks it's okay to spank children can't have had to go through that himself. If he/she had had to go through that he/she would KNOW, how abasing it is, and how absing it is (even after so many years!) to merely speak about it.

So: No. I'm not going to spank my children. I know too well how much it can destroy a human-being...
I know too many people who had to go through the same and who could never forget their parents.

I don't want my child do be "well-behaved" just because it fears me.

And just think of what would be the consequence: your child would never be honest to you, it would never trust you. Whenever there's a problem you will be the last one to kow... that can't be what education is all about?...

[Padme]

Poke 'em in the eye. Shoot them in the foot with paintballs or pepper spray them.

My mother never hit me... although she did spank my brothers... Her greatest weapons were "the look" saying "I'm very disappointed in you" or if she was really angry "I've got seven kids. If I kill one, no one would ever notice." or "You don't have to listen to me, but then again I don't have to feed you."

OH YEAH! Noone's as good as mothers when it comes to reasoning someone into a guilt trip

[PDeverit]

Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research with the recommended reads-visit the website of Parents and Teachers Against Violence in Education.

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
Center For Effective Discipline,
PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

[Maciamo]

I don't think that light spanking qualifies as corporal punishment. It was common when I was a child, and I don't have any particularly traumatic memories about it. On the other hand, kids' fights on the playing ground were often brutal and frequently required medical attention. Cuts, scratches, bruises, bleeding, sprained limbs, concussions, and occasionally even broken arms, legs or noses happened to every single boy in my primary school at least once year. I am only talking about those inflicted by other children, not accidents. I think that teachers or school staff allowing such brutal behaviour to happen (and often turning a blind eye, if not enjoying the fights) are far worse than parents or teachers who just spank or slap children. How about Phys. Ed. teachers who encourage violent behaviour in football or other sports ? That was also the case in my school, so that half of the children were afraid of taking part at all.