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View Poll Results: Should Turkey Join The EU?

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    25 23.81%
  • No

    69 65.71%
  • Not Sure

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Thread: Should Turkey Join The EU?

  1. #251
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    If we are to take in the account of history, culture, population genetics and geopolitics Turkey has much in common with Europe and therefor these aspects should not be turned in to arguments against Turkey's EU accession talks. How ever Turkey still has to improve certain aspects of human rights for all her citizens as well as minorities. As a Turk I can say that there has been immense improvement and progress in these aspects but is it enough? of course not and there is still much work to be done.

    I've also been encountering certain economic reasoning against Turkey's EU accession process which I don't entirely agree with. I think this reasoning whether positive nor negative would depend on the certain perspective of the individual. If you compare Turkey with the engine economies of Europe, those industrial states such as France, England and Germany than Turkey does lag behind whether its gdp per capita nor total gdp but when compared with Eastern European countries that are in the EU such as Romania, Bulgaria or Poland than at this point I can say that there is not much of a difference. Turkey is even more developed than some of these states located in Eastern and Southern Europe. I think it would also be important to remind the fact that historically Turkey has not been affected by Renascence nor the Industrial revolution. Plus more than %90 of Turkey's population was doing agriculture during the foundation of the republic back in 1923. So it wouldn't be so bad to take a step back in to history and grasp where Turkey has actually risen from in recent years... compared to some European countries I think there has been great progress (in the modern meaning of the word) both socially and economically within the years. I am expecting that these will continue further once we are part of the EU, which we'll eventually join one day.

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    I continue to see the thing from a more economical and geopolitical point of view.

    Genetical, "civilizational" and religious arguments, really are not of my taste, although I agree that in the long term are unavoidable and important for some people.

    The truth is that given the current economical evolutions in Southern Europe, I feel pretty vindicated by reality, that the best that Turkey could experience was to be so far rejected for entering the European Union, and unexpectedly for many (and probably the Turks themselves) by pure luck, obtained the best deal: They were forced to reform their economy, but then, they were not entramped in the same way the Greek, the Italians and the Spaniards... they retained full control of their monetary policy and other elements of economic policy, and here are the results...

    Turkey Growth Outpaces China Piling Pressure on Central Bank

    By Steve Bryant and Selcuk Gokoluk -




    Turkey’s economic growth accelerated to 11 percent in the first quarter, outpacing China’s and adding to the pressure on the central bank to rein in a credit-driven boom that may threaten financial stability.

    The state statistics office in Ankara announced the figures today, at the same time it reported a record trade deficit for May. Growth in the quarter was faster than in any other member of the Group of 20 developed economies. The median estimate in a Bloomberg survey of 13 economists was 9.7 percent, and the previous quarter’s growth rate was 9.2 percent. China’s economy grew 9.7 percent in the first quarter.

    Central bank Governor Erdem Basci says the boom poses risks to stability as the current-account deficit widens to record levels. Basci’s solution has been to impose limits on bank lending without raising interest rates, a move he says would strengthen the currency and hurt exports. Pressure for a more orthodox response may escalate after today’s figures.

    The first-quarter boom “underlines the need for monetary tightening in the future, along the lines of conventional interest-rate moves,” Nigel Rendell, an economist at RBC Capital Markets in London, said in e-mailed comments. This is “very strong growth in a world where economic growth is all too frequently lacking.”
    The lira fell 0.2 percent to 1.6247 at 11:30 a.m. in Istanbul. Yields on benchmark two-year lira bonds fell 3 basis points to 9.17 percent.
    Election Win

    The economy grew 1.4 percent from the previous quarter, according to seasonally adjusted figures announced today. That was slower than the 3.6 percent quarter-on-quarter growth in the last three months of 2010.
    The expansion in the $735 billion economy helped Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan win a third term in national elections on June 12. Budget spending, excluding interest payments on debt, rose an annual 12 percent in first five months of the year, faster than the 8 percent growth that the government plans for 2011.
    Basci is seeking to rein in the boom using bank reserve requirements rather than interest-rate increases that may lure more short-term cash to the country, strengthen the currency and further weaken exports already hurt by the slowdown in Europe, Turkey’s main market.

    The 12-month current-account gap more than doubled from a year earlier to $63.4 billion in April, the most since records began in 1984 and equivalent to about 9 percent of GDP. The monthly trade gap rose to a record $10 billion in May, the government statistics office said today.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...uarter-1-.html

    So far, after all that have been said and done, apart from speculations about "Europeaness" or not of Turkey... Turks live better today, and I hope it will continue to be so in the medium term.

    Regards.

  3. #253
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    1 moment vision might be all the words,

    make your own conclusions,

    Turkey must enter EU but after kicking such guys like Bagis who are born with 'superiority of race' and are 'over' the dirty pig eaters Europeans,

    Racism against Racism?

    a well known Dutch racist vs a Turk racist,



    I really wonder who is the true racist?
    Europe that is not accepting or
    Turkey that believes that Europe is pigs racists area,

    I really wonder why at the last earthquake, at lake Van Turkey did not accept Help, while in the Earth quake of Anatolia did !!!!

    the case is after Bahadir Baruter case, that he had a trial (I do not know the result) for just posting that
    in the end, (there is no God) (yaziya Dikkat)
    so there is no place for Atheists in Turkey,
    since when an Atheist speaks no God, he insult Islam, and must go to trial,
    so the Islamic (theocratic racists) VS European 'pure' race racists who do not want Turks,

    just make your conclusions
    Seek and hide of racism,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
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    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

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  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Racism against Racism?

    ,
    Criticizing an ideology, be it a religion or a government type, is not racism, and should not be confused with each other. Religion is not bound by a certain group of people, a "muslim" is not a race as much as a "christian" is as much as a communist is.

  5. #255
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    you must accept Turkey eventually. can't you see the danger of eastern developing countries and oil-rich countries. Turkey stucked between east and west.You should persuade Turkey. Nowadays thoughts of turkish people have already started to change. They are questioning of being a member of EU is good or bad. 10 years ago greece was a potantial threat for turkey but today people just pity for greece or lots of EU members countries. Undoubtedly there are stronger rivals against EU and stronger Turkey. perfect 20th century has already gone. Open your eyes sleepy european people. you are sinking, your big and weak ship. two hundreds years ago you called Ottoman empire 'the sick man of Europe'. but i think next years you will be the 'the sick union of the universe'. EU has to use Turkey...

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    Quote Originally Posted by feanor View Post
    two hundreds years ago you called Ottoman empire 'the sick man of Europe'. but i think next years you will be the 'the sick union of the universe'. EU has to use Turkey...
    The Turkish want stong and independend country. They are partiots and very religious. They are proud of their history, of their wars for independence. And another one union (with EU) where developing and not rich countries play additional role (are source-oriented countries), is unacceptable for Turkey. It will build equal relations with the EU based on democratic principles and mutual respect. EU will fail to use Turkey because Turkey will use the EU!

  7. #257
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    No. It's largely not in Europe (the small piece of land in the west is not enough) and a entirely islamic state, doesn't fit to european culture, mentality etc., in my opinion. And I think that we have too many muslims in the EU. I see it as a threat for our european culture. And as far as I know most of the citizens of the EU are against a joining. But unfortunetly we Europeans will not be asked if Turkey should join or not.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordsee View Post
    No. It's largely not in Europe (the small piece of land in the west is not enough) and a entirely islamic state, doesn't fit to european culture, mentality etc., in my opinion. And I think that we have too many muslims in the EU. I see it as a threat for our european culture. And as far as I know most of the citizens of the EU are against a joining. But unfortunetly we Europeans will not be asked if Turkey should join or not.
    Islam is not a problem. Its not the middle ages where one can find religious converts. Islam is an unreformed religion and for most is not attractive. Christianity too is loosing followers. The problem with Turkey is its size. In 20 yrs time Turkey will be 100 mil people. Its hard to up bring that many people up to western standards. Turkey is actually two countries. 18 mil Kurds are not a minority regardless that Turkey calls them minority. 2OO 000 Slavisized Albanians call themselves Montenegrins and have a country, Kurds 20 mil are minority. With that size Turkey will have deputies in European Parliament as much as France, Poland,Albania, Macedonia and Kosovo taken together. That,s a lot of power. Accepting Turkey and living out Ukraine will be a hard decision. So, my opinion is that Europe needs the privileged partnership where Turkey will be.

  9. #259
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    Turkey is not a European country.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambrius (The Red) View Post
    Turkey is not a European country.
    What is a European country.

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boranidas View Post
    If we are to take in the account of history, culture, population genetics and geopolitics Turkey has much in common with Europe and therefor these aspects should not be turned in to arguments against Turkey's EU accession talks. How ever Turkey still has to improve certain aspects of human rights for all her citizens as well as minorities. As a Turk I can say that there has been immense improvement and progress in these aspects but is it enough? of course not and there is still much work to be done.

    I've also been encountering certain economic reasoning against Turkey's EU accession process which I don't entirely agree with. I think this reasoning whether positive nor negative would depend on the certain perspective of the individual. If you compare Turkey with the engine economies of Europe, those industrial states such as France, England and Germany than Turkey does lag behind whether its gdp per capita nor total gdp but when compared with Eastern European countries that are in the EU such as Romania, Bulgaria or Poland than at this point I can say that there is not much of a difference. Turkey is even more developed than some of these states located in Eastern and Southern Europe. I think it would also be important to remind the fact that historically Turkey has not been affected by Renascence nor the Industrial revolution. Plus more than %90 of Turkey's population was doing agriculture during the foundation of the republic back in 1923. So it wouldn't be so bad to take a step back in to history and grasp where Turkey has actually risen from in recent years... compared to some European countries I think there has been great progress (in the modern meaning of the word) both socially and economically within the years. I am expecting that these will continue further once we are part of the EU, which we'll eventually join one day.
    Virtually none of the Eastern or Southeastern European countries were affected by the Renaissance or the Industrial Revolution. In fact, most of them were under Ottoman rule when the Renaissance and the Industrial revolution were in full swing. Some people from the balkans migrated to Italy during and before the Renaissance but the Balkan and Eastern European regions were entirely unaffected by those events (certainly the industrial revolution reached the balkans almost two centuries later).

    And Turkey has a good deal lower GDP (purchasing power) per capita than Poland ($20,000 vs $15,000) and they were both more or less growing at a similar rate in 2012 (2.2% vs 2.0%). It's true that Bulgaria and Romania are poorer (Bulgaria slightly poorer though its growing at a much slower rate than Turkey, Romania a bit poorer and also growing at a far slower rate) but I don't think people object to Turkey joining the EU because of its economy. To be honest, I am not sure what the argument is against Turkey joining (I am not sure whether the Turks themselves are interested either)

  12. #262
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    I definitely agree with Cambrius that Turkey is not European, culturally, geographically and, to a significant extent, ethnically. We can't compare Turkey with the European countries. They are different.

  13. #263
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    The problem is that European people excluded Turkey from any debate. Quite strange for a candidate country, also member of the other main European organizations. I'm not biased and I don't lean towards any solution (many pros and cons come in my mind, but it would be useless to decide in this way), I don't have the knowledge to decide if Turkey is European or not. I'm just saying that the first step was made in 1959, Turkey waited until 1999 to see now closed doors from the biggest member countries. So, I can be in favour or contrary to the accession, but the point is that Turkey is the first real political examination for Europe and we failed in the way EU handled it. Turkey share a large number of faults, like us, but we are supposed to "drive" honestly the process of a candidate country, as always happened. But we didn't do. We still decide if Turkey is European, but we ignore the real process of Gezi Park or why Erdogan is leading the country away from the Old Continent, why we believed to the "democratization process" of AKP or what's the role of the army in that country. This is not a smart Europe.

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    Sure,Turkey should be allowed to join the EU...this is the right moment now that the union is just about to implode.

  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I really wonder why at the last earthquake, at lake Van Turkey did not accept Help, while in the Earth quake of Anatolia did !!!!

    the case is after Bahadir Baruter case, that he had a trial (I do not know the result) for just posting that
    We all know the reason and they are not even making a secret out of it. Even after 2 years allot of people of Van still have no housings. It's Europes decision if they want Turkey but I would not complain if they would let the Kurds go and so we can live with our people and Turkey can become part of the EU.
    Last edited by Alan; 05-10-13 at 01:35.

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    In realpolitik, Turkey should join to EU. Not only for economical issues but also political. If EU aims to be a dominant power in the future it should accept the countries like Turkey.

    This a win-win situation bothe EU and Turkey would benefit with this. Europe will have a say in the middle-east and caucasia and will be muck muck closer to energy areas like Northern Iraq and Azerbaijan.

    http://irglobal.blogspot.com/

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    I voted no! I do not believe having Turkey in the EU would benefit the EU at all. Turkey has a horrible record on religious tolerance and seems to be moving backwards instead of forwards.

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    It seems that Turkey will be an EU member. It might take a little longer to become a member but eventuaally it will be. There are many reasons that Turkey will not be left out.
    1) Turkey is an important energy route for Europe. All kind of gas and oil coming to Europe crosses Turkey.
    2) Historically has played a role in Europe, even though not neccesary positive
    3) Turkey is an important cheep and quoilified labour source for EU companies
    4) If not EU it will join Russias Euroasia union
    5) half of its population is European

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    Hi i am Mesut livin in Istanbul

    First of all to the all WHO thinks Turkey is European or Middle-eastern , no , Turkey is NEITHER. Yes , Turkey is a moslem country but its way of living and religion is much , much different than middle eastern arabic countries and Iran. Turkey's culture , even the way of religion , is a synthesis of former Byzantine , Caucasia , Mid-east , Persia and Balkans.
    Turkey is a culture of its own , unlike European and Mid-easterns , it has influences from both , both still , UNIQUE. Today's Anatolian Turks continue to what former Anatolians were doing , being a crossroads of cultures , continents , peoples and DNAs.

    Referring to Turkey "non-european" by genetics is a complete garbage. And i want to point out that the "European" maternal lineage and hablogroups originated in Anatolia , as those of Greeks and Romans'.

    Referring to Turkey as " Middle-eastern" is like referring to South Americans and Christians as Europeans because they also have some similarities in way of life due to the religious influences. If i have to choose a "mixture" to refer to current Turkish culture , i am most definetely going to use " Central Asian , Anatolian , Mid-eastern and , Byzantine and Balkans" to construct the current life.

    And about "European " culture , sorry but this thesis is subject created by Western and Northers Europeans due to the their inferiority complex towards Southern Europeans who created and has the roots of European culture and the creators. Define the barbarian Northern and Western European culture of 2000 years ago and the Romans , Greeks and Anatolians of that time. I would say Italians , Spanish and the Greeks are the true Europeans , the rest are people who adopted their culture by adding some non-important stuff. And this " Europeanism" was imposed to southern Europeans due to their economic backwardness of those times , unfortunately when the Northerners was the strong and dominating ones. Any educated European is aware of the fact that European culture has its base on Greece, Italia and Anatolia.

    And again to the " genetically European" thing , this is again an inferiority complex by those Northernes because the ones ( Greeks , Romans and Anatolians ) who created the European culture was J2 Hablogroup dominant people which is most preminent in Greece , Italy , Souther Spain , Georgia , Turkey and Balkans today. They were simply people with dark complexion , and also J2 has the highest frequence of Green eyes among others .

    Cheers

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    Cheers !?...
    Excuse me, let me explain somethings to Mr. Timur if you please, in a proper Greek cosmopolitan way of style ...

    -Vay, vay, vay arkadaşım ayyaşlar; Ouzo içiyor; Raki içiyor;
    Biraz, yavas, yavas, Baklava- issue; fındık,
    somun veya fıstık bekleyin; Ne içki kahve; Ee; Yok Yunani, yok Turkik - Ethiopic olduğunu.
    Υok, yok "cheers" - Yia mas Kardasim.

    ...
    ok now. about Turkey join EU ?
    -Certainly yes.
    a) For the pragmatic and idealistic reason that Minor East or Anatolia is birthplace of the most delicate essences of Greekhellenic.>Roman-Byzantine> European culture.
    b) The meaning of union? If you think you are so different from the Turks, or Irish, or Latvian, etc etc... you are probably in the right place. That is Europe, and that is what we have to unify.
    c) Because... "Show must go on"!

  21. #271
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Turkye is an ultra Islamo-Fascist mongrel country. They should leave Cyprus and Kurdistan alone. Turks in the West of Turkye should become Greeks again and start speaking Hellenic and maybe only then they can become part of Europe. Other parts of Tukrye, like northeastern parts should become part of Georgia again. And Kurdistan must be a FREE state, period! Kurds are IRANIC people that has absolutely nothing to do with Europe nor Turks. Kurds are a separated race and deserve their own country. Kurdish language is still one of the 'purest' Iranic languages that left. We want to keep it that way. Kurdish languages, unlike Persian etc. has still an ergative construction left from the ancient proto-Kurdic (ancient Avestan language and even older Indo-Iranic). The world should be more MULTI-polar. There're more alternatives than the 'Western World', East (Russia) or Islamic world. Personally I want that Kurdistan becomes part of its own culture/world. I believe in an Aryan Union. The Union of all Iranic speaking peoples. From Kurdistan to Tajikistan. In that regard I'm PAN-Iranist (PAN-Aryanist). I don't care either if western Turkye enters EU or not, actually I hope it will, so it will leave Kurdistan and Kurds alone after 1000 years of terrorizing for GOD sake. But WITHOUT Kurdistan, since Kurds have very different ancient roots, culture. I'm tired of Tukye and Turks!

  22. #272
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    Your best hope for a Kurdistan is if western powers push for a new state to form out of Iraqi Kurdistan and Syrian Kurdistan. If Turkey becomes an EU member, and the new Kurdistan becomes a friendly partner for western businesses, democracy, other pro western interests, then the EU and US could push for an autonomous self governed or annexed Kurdistan from Turkey to join the new Kurdistan. I'm thinking realistically. Only the west would have a reason (political) to push for a Kurdistan (as a western ally in the middle east). Without the west I don't see anybody else having a political or economical interest for helping to form an official Kurdistan state. The current Kurdish people don't have the resources or ability to form a Kurdish state in the modern political environment, they would need a lot of outside help. Like the old saying "the Kurds have no friends but the mountain" there is little support from the middle east for a separate Kurdistan. The fear alone of separatist agenda is enough to deter most middle eastern countries from supporting a Kurdish state. Many of them deal with real threats of internal separatist threats.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goga View Post
    Turkye is an ultra Islamo-Fascist mongrel country. They should leave Cyprus and Kurdistan alone. Turks in the West of Turkye should become Greeks again and start speaking Hellenic and maybe only then they can become part of Europe. Other parts of Tukrye, like northeastern parts should become part of Georgia again. And Kurdistan must be a FREE state, period! Kurds are IRANIC people that has absolutely nothing to do with Europe nor Turks. Kurds are a separated race and deserve their own country. Kurdish language is still one of the 'purest' Iranic languages that left. We want to keep it that way. Kurdish languages, unlike Persian etc. has still an ergative construction left from the ancient proto-Kurdic (ancient Avestan language and even older Indo-Iranic). The world should be more MULTI-polar. There're more alternatives than the 'Western World', East (Russia) or Islamic world. Personally I want that Kurdistan becomes part of its own culture/world. I believe in an Aryan Union. The Union of all Iranic speaking peoples. From Kurdistan to Tajikistan. In that regard I'm PAN-Iranist (PAN-Aryanist). I don't care either if western Turkye enters EU or not, actually I hope it will, so it will leave Kurdistan and Kurds alone after 1000 years of terrorizing for GOD sake. But WITHOUT Kurdistan, since Kurds have very different ancient roots, culture. I'm tired of Tukye and Turks!
    Turkey is not an "ultra Islamo-Fascist mongrel country", as you say. Turkey is a secular nation. Turkey is a democracy. I do believe that Turkey does need reforms to combat corruption, and I also think that due to the Erdogan, there should be early elections in Turkey,

    Turkey should leave Cyprus alone, I agree with that. However the Turkish Cypriots have voiced their support of the Turkish military presence in Northern Cyprus. I hope that this dispute will be resolved, and that both sides of the island unite (form a loose confederacy, for examples), or become separate, democratic nations. Cyprus is a democratic nation.

    You always have to bring up Kurdistan. Turkey will never allow Southeast Turkey to become independent. If your birth country, Turkey, joins the EU, this will be good for Kurds in Turkey. They will be protected many different laws and treaties of The European Union. I believe it to be possible that Turkey will allow a semi- or fully autonomous province or region in the region of Southeast Turkey where it is predominately Kurdish.

    If your birth country, Turkey, joins the EU, Kurds will have the ability to move to other parts of Europe rather easily. If a Kurd or Kurds doesn't like Turkey, then, they can leave and go to another European country.

    You keep ranting about a Kurdish state, Kurds, and how Turkey is bad, The West is bad, how Russia is going to save the world from "The New World Order", etc. Is that all you think about? Practically every post you make features your crazy rants.

    There will never be any "Aryan Union", the name even sounds like some kind of neo-Nazi revival or something. Iran only likes countries like North Korea, Syria, Russia, etc. What an elite group of nations!

    Also, there is no language called Hellenic. The language is called Greek. I know, because my grandfather was from Greece and he spoke it. I speak a bit, as well.

    Also, Turkey isn't going to split, as you suggest. The biggest issues in Turkey are corruption, silencing and abuse of protesters, and slow EU negotiations. The Kurdish situation is not a major issue in Turkey. And all of the political parties and organisations that push for Kurdish independence from Turkey are ones like the PKK, a terrorist organisation.

    Also, I do think Turkey should be a member of the EU. If they join the EU, I hope that the relations between Greece and Turkey would become better; though they have been getting much better in the past decades than in years past.

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    Nobody knows this but every EU country accepted our membership. But after we though so much we decided to it's going to be bad. Because Kurds were going to invade your countries with 10 childs per family. You guys own us a thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBlack View Post
    Nobody knows this but every EU country accepted our membership. But after we though so much we decided to it's going to be bad. Because Kurds were going to invade your countries with 10 childs per family. You guys own us a thank you.
    Germans I've talked to seem to consider the Turks to be enough of a problem - that's one reason Germany would never have allowed Turkey into the EU, regardless of what was said publicly. And of course Greece and Turkey have a lot of unresolved issues. But Turkey will never join the EU now it has a president who's a member of the Moslem Brotherhood - Turkey seems to be retreating into the past.

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