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Tsuyoiko said:Reiku, you have read too much Nietzsche
Wasn't this thread about animal testing
Tsuyoiko said:Nietzsche was a German philosopher.
Tsuyoiko said:Reiku, you have read too much Nietzsche
Wasn't this thread about animal testing
Reiku said:Actually, I've never read Nietzsche--although I have heard his oft-quoted "God is dead, and we killed him" bit.
Personally, I disagree. I think god is a jerk--and we're just like him. :blush:
[edit] Nietzsche was German? I thought he was Russian for some reason... [/edit]
As for animal testing, what I said has direct bearing on the subject: It is a disscusion which hinges on each person's beleifs of what is and is not "ethical".
Some say animals exist only for our use, others consider the needs of animals more important than the needs of humans--and most people fall somewhere in between.
Maciamo said:Tokis-Phoenix, when you talk of animal tested hygene products, do you mean that they tried shampoo on a dog to see if it washes well before releasing it on the market ? I don't see any problem with that (except if they knew the dog was allergic to one of the ingredient, as lost all its hairs as a results !).
strongvoicesforward said:One thing we sure have learned through ?ganimal testing?h is: We sure do know how to cause rats to get cancer.
Since we have declared war on cancer we have spent billions of dollars on cancer research and still have not found a cure. I am not saying that we never will or would never be able to (though it is not guaranteed we will) by using animals, but that money could go, or have gone further in preventing more misery from cancer by focusing on prevention rather than cure. More and more we are learning that diet and lifestyle can be or may be the over-riding determinants of cancer forming cells. If those billions of dollars over the last 4 decades were spent on educating and promoting healthier choices in lifestyles, perhaps we would not have the ever increase in cancer rates/deaths.
Strange, isn`t it? -- cancer research on animals and dollars into it keep rising, but so do cancer rates.
Food for thought.
Tokis-Phoenix said:So are you implying that you believe the cancer research people are doing is essentially useless?
You can only prevent cancer to a certain extent,...
...even if you are the healthiest person on earth you may still get genetic cancer
... or cancer from an accident/injury.
Diet, although it does sound promising at times, is not the solution to everything cancer-related.
Even food products are animal tested.
strongvoicesforward said:I thought I quite clearly implied that the billions of dollars could be used more efficiently and that more efficiency would mean less suffering. I am all for decreasing suffering as much as possible as efficiently as possible with all the scarce funds that are available.
Well...when we have people smoking and dying from lung cancer or cancer induced through high animal fat products, I would say we haven`t reached that "certain extent" yet. Do you think we have?
strongvoicesforward said:Sure. But then focusing on the lesser possibility of contracting cancer is not being efficient in the funds available to prevent as many cases as possible. To me "efficiency" is important because it will mean more lives saved and less suffering.
What cancers are normally caused by normal accidents or injuries?
strongvoicesforward said:I doubt if there will ever be a "solution" to every-thing "cancer-related." Rather than expect that, we should expect and demand efficiency.
strongvoicesforward said:You mean my brocali is repeatedly being tested?!!!
Tokis-Phoenix said:Do you have anything to say directly to my last post though?
strongvoicesforward said:Sure. You caught me between posts again. You should learn to give people some time before assuming they are avoiding your posts. I would say 20 to 30 mins is quite acceptable.
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I have nothing wrong with people finding a cure for cancer -- so long as the funds are used as efficiently as possible and do not violate the integrity of unwilling beings which suffer and feel pain.
As for your personal anecdote about your friend -- personally I doubt it is or was as you described. Of course I have no access to his personal records and I don`t think you can provide them -- so I can`t give it credence. Sorry.
The other parts of your post are touched on/addressed in my #75 and #77.
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