Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum

View Poll Results: Are religious people somehow weaker than atheists?

Voters
46. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    15 32.61%
  • No

    31 67.39%
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 136

Thread: Are religious people somehow weaker than atheistic people?

  1. #51
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan





    Analogies are often meant to make only one point, the analogy, as you have pointed out there, does have a hole in it, and most myths and analogies do.
    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward
    Could you address the analogy I offered you in return, and why Buddhism wouldn't care for helping to garner information at the moment when death is/could be upon us -- especially when that information could help with justice?
    I don't quite understand what part of Buddhist teaching would be opposed to that. I've never read anything that would lead me to the same conclusions.
    "The whole purpose of religion is to facilitate love and compassion, patience, tolerance, humility, forgiveness."
    --H.H. the Dalai Lama

  2. #52
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    I found this essay on an apologetics website: "Christianity is for Weak, Stupid People? - The Role of Reason for Christians" by Rich Deem http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/reason.html

    This essay refutes the idea that Christianity is for the weak or stupid. It cites several verses where Christians are encouraged, even commanded to examine, test their faith, and apply reason. It concludes: "The Bible teaches a rational faith, based upon knowledge and refined through testing. Christians are encouraged to use their minds in all aspects of life, including our spiritual life - prayer and worship. God values truthfulness to a high degree and wants us to know the truth about his creation, the nature of His being and His scriptures. Ultimately, God wants all people to come to the knowledge of the truth of His salvation through Jesus Christ, so that they may spend eternity with Him in the new creation."

  3. #53
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    It seems to me that you think the only reason people believe in a God is because they have not reasoned it out yet. I think that's a load of dookie. Some of the greatest minds- including those belonging to people renown for logic and philosophy have been religious. I don't think your belief in God or non-belief in God has anything to do with either logic or philosophy and stating something like this is ridiculous.
    Again, greatest minds at what ? Most famous intellectuals are specialised in something. Many scientists may have the reasoning/logic skills, but lack the philosophical ones (I know many of them). You don't need great philosophical and logical skills to become a great artist, linguistic, politician, etc.

    As for Francis Bacon or other philosophers who might have believed in god, let's keep in mind that I am talking about people now with the knowledge available now. I would still be an agnostic or a deist if I had not learned about neuropsychology (and how even emotions are just biochemical reactions, and disappear if a part of that brain is removed) and relativity.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  4. #54
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    I found this essay on an apologetics website: "Christianity is for Weak, Stupid People? - The Role of Reason for Christians" by Rich Deem http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/reason.html

    This essay refutes the idea that Christianity is for the weak or stupid. It cites several verses where Christians are encouraged, even commanded to examine, test their faith, and apply reason.
    It actually proves my point about their lack of reasoning skills. If they did apply reason to their beliefs, how comes they never reached the same level of understanding as I did as a child about how man-made Christianity, how manipulative and political the Church is, and how contradictory the Bible is ?

  5. #55
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by strongvoicesforward
    btw -- what is the sound of one hand clapping?
    Sorry, that's offtopic, but can't so many people clap with one hand ? It's so easy, just quickly and powerfully clap your fingers on your palm. It's not as effective as with two hands, but it does emit some clapping sound.

  6. #56
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    It actually proves my point about their lack of reasoning skills. If they did apply reason to their beliefs, how comes they never reached the same level of understanding as I did as a child about how man-made Christianity, how manipulative and political the Church is, and how contradictory the Bible is ?
    This proves my point- You clearly lack any kind of objectivity when it comes to discussing religion due to some past experiences.

    It seems like you are saying that only people that think like you have any intellectual capacity. So if people disagree with the conclusions you made as a child, they are obviously stupid and lacking in reasoning? I hope you realize how offensive and condescending that sounds.

    I abandoned my atheism (although not all dialectic materialism) at the age of 15 after a great deal of critical reasoning and examination. I found a deeper and more meaningful truth. I have not reached the same conclusion you did and I don't feel that either my reasoning abilities or intellect is inferior. Nor do I question yours for not reaching my conclusion.

    What about adults like C.S. Lewis that abandoned atheism as adults? They apparently were able to distinguish between the politics of the Church and the truth of the message and to reconcile what others seem to find contradictory in the Bible.

    Now how would you rank reasoning skills? If I can't give you some of the great logical/reasoning minds of the past such as Bacon, Descartes, and Newton-- people responsible for the basics of logic and scientific method and founders of modern philosophy-- who would you accept? These names obviously refute your basic premise that those of faith lack reasoning, philosophical or reasoning skills. I am asking for some clarification, because it is obvious to me that you are claiming some sort of intellectual superiority to me solely on the basis of my faith and your lack of faith? Do you really believe that you are superior in reason and intellect to someone simply because they are not an athiest?

  7. #57
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    The 90% of the people on the planet that claim some religion or faith are not athiests. This is not due to some flaw in thinking, lack of reasoning, gap in information, or deficiency in logic. It may comfort athiests to believe somehow they are the intellectual superiors to Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Moslems, Anamists, Pagans and Christians... but very little investigation would be needed to debunk this prejudice. For those who pride themselves in logic and reasoning, clinging to such an overgeneralization fallacy seems to me to be a contradiction.

  8. #58
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    You can give me as many examples of famous people who were not atheist, that won't change my opinion. You can become a great person without being atheist. That doesn't mean that your understanding of metaphysics is right. You don't need to understand the universe to be happy or fulfill yourself. Hence I don't see your point in citing examples of people.

  9. #59
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    I gave those examples to counter your assertion that non-athiests were inferior in logic and philosophy. Apparently conter-examples are irrelevant and your conclusion is not logically based.

    So your only reason for believing that Athiests are superior in intellect, logic and reasoning is because they agree with you?

  10. #60
    gunjin Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Carlson's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-10-05
    Location
    Tokyo
    Age
    33
    Posts
    47


    Country: Japan



    religious people are not weak. more people have been killed for religous reasons then anything else
    Picture Tokyo

    Catholic - which I was until I reached the age of reason.
    I've found him, I have Jesus in the trunk. - George Carlin Religion Quotes

  11. #61
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-10-05
    Posts
    154


    Country: Russian Federation



    ... " A clap by one palm " - silence...
    Only then when all human feelings "stay idle" the person is capable to see true value of this or that...
    .................................................. ............................................

  12. #62
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    Revenant- I believe your intent in beginning this thread was to check whether the conception among athiests that religious people are in some way "weak" is true. Based upon what we have read here, I believe you have confirmed this prejudice. It does seem to be a generalization we can confirm that Athiests do hold their logic, reasoning and critical thinking skills to be superior to any person who claims a religion or faith.

  13. #63
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlson
    religious people are not weak. more people have been killed for religous reasons then anything else
    But who tells you that these people weren't weak at cooking or at composing poetry ? Everybody is weak at something...

  14. #64
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,696
    Points
    697,304
    Level
    100
    Points: 697,304, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 27.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    So your only reason for believing that Athiests are superior in intellect, logic and reasoning is because they agree with you?
    No, because nobody else found a better explanation based on facts (e.g. neuropsycholgy). I think you might never understand what I mean if you do not study about neuropsycholgy to understand how the very concept of soul cannot exist, and the reality of life and death has nothing to do with what religions tell us. Once you understand that (you won't with my explanations, so study !), you might be able to realise that the very idea of a 'living god' is one of the greatest aberration and delusion of the human mind. Living automatically means that there is a 'birth' (passing from inert matter to self-preseving biochemical system) to a 'death' (the other way round). No living can be eternal. No living can exist outside a biological body. If you can't understand that, study more about medicine (esp. neurology).

    It is difficult even for a well reasoned mind to be an Atheist if they don't first understand that 'soul' is a human-made illusion, and god cannot be 'alive'. That is why your examples are irrelevant. With all my knowledge about different fields (history, languages, maths, sciences, or whatever), if I had never learned about the fucntionning of the human brain I would almost certainly not be a convinced Atheist today (I would be non religious though).

  15. #65
    Horizon Rider Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Kinsao's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-05-05
    Location
    England
    Age
    40
    Posts
    592


    Country: United Kingdom



    I suppose one of the biggest questions in considering whether or not there is such a thing as 'god', is: is it possible to have consciousness and intelligence existing outside of a biological body?

  16. #66
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    No, because nobody else found a better explanation based on facts (e.g. neuropsycholgy). I think you might never understand what I mean if you do not study about neuropsycholgy to understand how the very concept of soul cannot exist, and the reality of life and death has nothing to do with what religions tell us. Once you understand that (you won't with my explanations, so study !), you might be able to realise that the very idea of a 'living god' is one of the greatest aberration and delusion of the human mind. Living automatically means that there is a 'birth' (passing from inert matter to self-preseving biochemical system) to a 'death' (the other way round). No living can be eternal. No living can exist outside a biological body. If you can't understand that, study more about medicine (esp. neurology).
    It is difficult even for a well reasoned mind to be an Atheist if they don't first understand that 'soul' is a human-made illusion, and god cannot be 'alive'. That is why your examples are irrelevant. With all my knowledge about different fields (history, languages, maths, sciences, or whatever), if I had never learned about the fucntionning of the human brain I would almost certainly not be a convinced Atheist today (I would be non religious though).
    It doesn't seem that your conclusion is based at all on facts. I do not think neuropsychology has ruled out the existence of a soul. I'm not certain that much research into the existence of a soul has been done by psychobiologists or what such research might entail. I find nothing in science right now that precludes the existence of a living God. Again, setting the parameters of the research and designing experiments would seem rather difficult. And "living" does not necessarily have to fit the parameters you prescribed. Please provide a source that proves that a soul is a "human made illusion" and that God has to fit the parameters of existence that you set for Him. I think you have developed this model to fit your belief system and found some science which you believe supports your conclusion. Science and reason work in the opposite direction. It is a form of confirmational bias.

    As of now, (without researching the topic) I would assert that there is no scientific proof or disproof of a God, or a set of parameters which definitively outlines what God would be. I would also assert that there is no proof or disproof of a soul, and that neuropsychologists would probably not even offer a definition of soul as it is irrelevant to their study.

  17. #67
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    Although you are fairly correct about my scientific background, I don't think you should make assumptions. As far as my study of neuropsychology it is quite minimal. Although I have two masters degrees in Education and Special Education, our focus is on developmental psychology and not psycho biology. I do have a bare minimum undergraduate level education consisting of a few courses in psycology and psychobiology and in all that coursework, I do not remember the existence of either a soul or God being a topic of discussion, study or research.

  18. #68
    gunjin Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Carlson's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-10-05
    Location
    Tokyo
    Age
    33
    Posts
    47


    Country: Japan



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo
    But who tells you that these people weren't weak at cooking or at composing poetry ? Everybody is weak at something...
    yeah and every religion killed for the sake of religion, no matter there weakness.
    seems like a strong thing to do if you ask me.

  19. #69
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-10-05
    Posts
    154


    Country: Russian Federation




    Really - the human consciousness in " chaotic construction of logic " is "something"...
    ......
    To deny presence of soul, it is necessary to deny and that " the Universe began from "Nothing" "...
    And it even " not under force " to atheists...
    Everything, that " the science about the person " in real measurement has learnt it only " anatomy of a body and biochemical reactions of this body "... And it only knowledge " about an environment " and only...
    People have comprehended only that see... And other "universe" was also him and will (!) be inaccessible...
    It only "Evolution"... The Given form of the person has " the restrictions " - so the reality is arranged...
    That it has changed - " it is necessary not much and not a little " - " Evolution the given kind "...
    As this world of the person already for a long time lives in " to a certain information system of images and senses " only the "envoy" bearing in " an evolutionary code ", can create " an information level of evolutionary transition "...
    " Translation of the Bible for atheists "
    The Bible is a serious source of the information... Only to read it - people very many forgot...

  20. #70
    Banned Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    08-10-05
    Posts
    154


    Country: Russian Federation



    P.S. And who has told, what "soul" is in " this measurement "?...

  21. #71
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    Maciamo, correct me again if I am wrong- you are saying that non-athiests are weaker in reason and logic because they believe in God and a soul... and that science has proven that there is no God and no soul. Is this correct? If so do you have data to back up this claim? Can you give some citations? Has there been a comparative measure of logical intelligence between athiests and non-athiests? What parameters were set up in the disproval of the existence of the human soul? I don't want to mischaracterize what you are saying but is sounds a bit "iffy" to me.

    I'm thinking that in neuropsychology that only the most reductive physicalist would bother refuting the concept of soul. This wouldn't however have anything to do with the existence or non-existence of the human soul, it would only dismiss the importance of the concept as it relates to psychobiology. I cannot find anything on line that explains this in laymans terms that I can handle. Interesting paper that mentions the "God spot" in the brain: http://info.med.yale.edu/intmed/humm...ar/mbasso2.htm

    This article examines the the history of conceptions of the human makeup (body and soul) as they arose in ancient philosophy and religion-- primarily Christianity. http://www.meta-library.net/neuro/neuro-print.html

  22. #72
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Carlson
    yeah and every religion killed for the sake of religion, no matter there weakness.
    seems like a strong thing to do if you ask me.
    Especially that Gandhi guy and that Mother Theresa lady. I hear the Dali Lama has a huge human trophy wall and that Billy Graham is still quite the sniper at his age. Monks you know can be quite dangerous...After seeing Tom Cruise go balistic on daytime TV, I kinda cringe whenever I have to drive by the big blue building in Hollywood.

    People have been killed over lots of other things besides religion-- to save the free world, to preserve or end slavery, to expand trade and borders, out of ethnic superiority, for gold, for and against communism, for King and country as well as God, for empire, for oil, for independence, for ethnic cleansing, for honor, for tradition... in all fairness, most religions don't command you to go out and kill people... and the underlying causes of most wars are a little more complex.

  23. #73
    No Longer a Member Achievements:
    1 year registered

    Join Date
    06-03-05
    Location
    Okayama, Japan
    Age
    43
    Posts
    374


    Ethnic group
    Native American
    Country: Japan



    Quote Originally Posted by sabro
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlson
    yeah and every religion killed for the sake of religion, no matter there weakness. seems like a strong thing to do if you ask me.
    ... and the underlying causes of most wars are a little more complex.
    I don't doubt that some people were killed as a direct result of clashing religious beliefs, and I don't doubt that a lot of wars were waged in a certain religions name (we could wage a war in any name really, as long as it moves the masses. Democracy would be easy to do so in). But I challenge the idea that more people have been killed for actual religious reasons than simple socioeconomics.

  24. #74
    Banned Achievements:
    Recommendation Second Class1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-04-04
    Posts
    1,720


    Country: United States



    I think the 19th and 20th centuries have seen a shift away from conflicts over religion to political, economical and sectarian reasons. Colonialism, Imperialism, Fascism, Communism, Capitolism...The bloodiest conflicts in human history have not been fought over religion but over "isms."

  25. #75
    Horizon Rider Achievements:
    1 year registered
    Kinsao's Avatar
    Join Date
    08-05-05
    Location
    England
    Age
    40
    Posts
    592


    Country: United Kingdom



    I think a lot of leaders/people in power have used the 'religious feelings' of the masses to fuel conflicts for socio-economic reasons, reasons of power and money. In that sense you can say the people who fall into the trap and end up fighting for what they think is a religious 'cause' are weak, because they have followed leaders into conflict without stopping to think 'is this something that would be wanted by the god that I believe in, all this killing and wars?'

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Who were R1b1b1 people
    By saltranger in forum R1b
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 17-08-18, 16:53
  2. Turkish people, look like ?
    By Benkimim in forum Opinions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 17-04-18, 17:50
  3. Why do people Die
    By Dutch Baka in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 102
    Last Post: 21-08-13, 22:15
  4. Dang, these people are serious? :D
    By den4 in forum Other Serious Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 21-08-05, 21:42

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •