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Thread: Montenegro votes for independence from Serbia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    Don't buy this nonsense iapodos.
    The Brits and Americans played a very wicked role in ex Yugoslavia.
    The American government in those days wanted to establish peace between Israel and the Palestinians. So they had contacts with the KLA to support them.
    Together with Al Qaeda agents. The KLA was also financed by countries like Saudi Arabia.
    The civil war in Yugoslavia was ignited by the German minister of foreign affairs back then. Slovenia got weapons for their police force smuggled in from Austria. And so Slovenia went for independence.
    That triggered a series of other bombs to explode.
    Organized looting of human body parts?
    Bullshit.
    Too complicated to shoot them, and then sort them out.
    It would be more like the Americans do..
    Put them in jail or camps..
    Do tests on them..
    Execute them when organs are needed.
    I guess the Chinese do it that way too.
    Nonsense or not, those hijacked Serbs have never been found...

    I agree with the most of what you have said., but I think that KLA was able to comitt such kind of crime. All they need was just a group of surgeons and free place (northern Albania) to do so. Sex traffiking and drug trade, trade with human body parts, if you have good criminal infractracture throughout of Europe and Middle East, it is not important what is the object of trade.

    What I was trying to emphasyze here is effort of some intelectuals on this forume and in Europe which for a long time trying to assure us how such kind of criminal structure deserve independent state. Independent state, for what? For trading with human organs? Hasim Thaci, prime ministar of so called Republic of Kosovo in this Report of Dick Marty, which was accepted by Counsil of Europe, was described as main organizator and head of criminal beast.

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    KLA are nothing but narcoterrorists hence why they where on the FBI's list of terrorist groups involved in the drug trade up until 1998. As for indepenadance that wont be lasting to long i dont think they have set a very dangerous precedant especially when you have some EU(SSR) countries approaching 20% muslim and relations between the two arent getting any better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Are you talking about about Montenegro or Kosovo ? When was either of them independent before (to print stamps) ?
    Montenegro was an independant nation from 1400's to 1918.... or most of its modern history

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    Quote Originally Posted by GorazdR View Post
    I totally agree wit Duo's post. My country gained independance from former Yugoslavia 16 years ago and it was the best decision me coult have made. Too much money went to Belgrade with no apparent benefit. We are now EU members and on 1st January Eurozone members.

    Things are really complicated, politicaly, in Serbia. kosovo independance is pending and Serbia won't, in my opinion, let that happen. The radicals threatened armed conflict if Kosovo secedes.

    As for Montenegro, I'm sure that there will not be any conflicts. Serbs have other problems and Montenegro was never percieved as part of Serbia, wheres kosovo is a birthplace of Serbian nation.
    Slovenia broke off from yugoslavia because milosevic cut your customs funding seeing as all the customs collected on any border in yugoslavia went to slovenia. When YOU quite recieving money from yugoslavia you decided to break off not vice versa...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Slovenia broke off from yugoslavia because milosevic cut your customs funding seeing as all the customs collected on any border in yugoslavia went to slovenia. When YOU quite recieving money from yugoslavia you decided to break off not vice versa...
    never heard of this...
    and do not believe it can be truth...
    Slovenians collecting customs on all borders would just be insane...

    Slovenians had reasons to separate...they were economically ahead of the rest and felt others as weight placed upon them...

    point is in the way they separated...
    they made media war in which they were good guys who are attacked, while in reality they encircled military barracks, cutting their food and water supply and shooting on Yugoslav army units made at the time mostly out of 18 year old kids who were serving army in Slovenia...
    very brave...

    they "won" the war... in reality, if Yugoslav army had a grain of wickedness that was attributed to it in west media, they would respond to this by flattening some town with ground and threat to flatten all of Slovenia (which could be done in few hours) if Slovenia's politicians do not order stop of the attacks... in fact, this is probably what any army would do... but Yugoslav army was based on ideological concept of brotherhood of Yugoslav nations...

    so, they just tried to resist attack in surrounded barracks...after 10 days of being surrounded in military barracks, and of being targets for snipers of Slovenian newly formed army, Yugoslav army just retreated to the rest of Yugoslavia... in fact, any army in the world would react on such attack with full force... "wicked" JNA did not react at all... they allowed Slovenian hunters (blinded with hate and fear spread by media in years before) to shoot down 44 kids serving in the army, to wound another 146 and to molest around 5000 who surrendered....

    with Croatia was different, because there lived big Serbian minority that was majority in up to 1/3 of Croatian territory.... clashes started after Serbs were kicked from status of nation in Croatia and put into status of being minority... in their view (which may or may not be correct), Croatia with its new neo-nazi leadership was on the road to finish what it has started in second world war when it was nazi ally who treated local Serbs with moto: "kill 1/3, deport 1/3, and convert to catholics the remaining 1/3" and who did that fairly according to the plan at least with the killing part... in first months of that war, Yugoslav army was even playing role of buffer between two sides... which was weird role as it by than consisted mainly of Serbs, as Croats, Slovenians, Bosnian muslims, Albanians deserted...

    after several incidents, army was in the conflict with Croatian forces... of course, this was not without influence of Serbian politicians who naturally tried to influence the army's leadership to protect Serbs in Croatia...

    in fact, Yugoslavia constitution had fuzzy defined secession. and was interpreted by Slovenian and Croatian political leaders and media as right of republics to separate, and by Serb politicians as right of nations to separate...

    thus, Serb leaders took the attitude that if Croats want to separate they can do that but same right have Serbs living in Croatia... especially because borders of Croatia were drawn by comunist regime, because there was genocide in second world war, and because Serbia as one of the winners of the first world war had right to take those parts and more in 1918, but instead decided to welcome Croats and Slovenes in the Yugoslavia as brother nations.

    To remind you, Serbia has lost in first world war around 1/3 of its citizens... too many lives sacrificed to give the gained teritories as a present to a nation who does not know to respect that and that brutally kills your people whenever history gives them a chance...

    so, while west saw Milosevic as a butcher, he, as bad as he was, was in fact almost a hippie compared to other politicians who were in power in ex-Yugoslav republics... but he had a big disadvantage - he was on the way of US strategic plans for global domination... also, Germany government of that time was strongly pushing Croatia's independence...

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    I think the USA wanted to flatten Yougoslavia. Just to get a trading route from Europe to the Middle East. Remember that Dubya Bush wanted to get Turkey in the EU!
    The idiot was thinking Europe was another American State on the flag.
    Well, we're not.

    Turkey has to sort out existing problems with Armenia and Kurdistan before they ever can be member of the EU. Period.

    Remember that Greece and Turkey are both NATO members that until today have the highest rate of people serving in the military. And that because of threats between them.
    I can't accept that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    never heard of this...
    and do not believe it can be truth...
    Slovenians collecting customs on all borders would just be insane...

    Slovenians had reasons to separate...they were economically ahead of the rest and felt others as weight placed upon them...

    point is in the way they separated...
    they made media war in which they were good guys who are attacked, while in reality they encircled military barracks, cutting their food and water supply and shooting on Yugoslav army units made at the time mostly out of 18 year old kids who were serving army in Slovenia...
    very brave...

    they "won" the war... in reality, if Yugoslav army had a grain of wickedness that was attributed to it in west media, they would respond to this by flattening some town with ground and threat to flatten all of Slovenia (which could be done in few hours) if Slovenia's politicians do not order stop of the attacks... in fact, this is probably what any army would do... but Yugoslav army was based on ideological concept of brotherhood of Yugoslav nations...

    so, they just tried to resist attack in surrounded barracks...after 10 days of being surrounded in military barracks, and of being targets for snipers of Slovenian newly formed army, Yugoslav army just retreated to the rest of Yugoslavia... in fact, any army in the world would react on such attack with full force... "wicked" JNA did not react at all... they allowed Slovenian hunters (blinded with hate and fear spread by media in years before) to shoot down 44 kids serving in the army, to wound another 146 and to molest around 5000 who surrendered....

    with Croatia was different, because there lived big Serbian minority that was majority in up to 1/3 of Croatian territory.... clashes started after Serbs were kicked from status of nation in Croatia and put into status of being minority... in their view (which may or may not be correct), Croatia with its new neo-nazi leadership was on the road to finish what it has started in second world war when it was nazi ally who treated local Serbs with moto: "kill 1/3, deport 1/3, and convert to catholics the remaining 1/3" and who did that fairly according to the plan at least with the killing part... in first months of that war, Yugoslav army was even playing role of buffer between two sides... which was weird role as it by than consisted mainly of Serbs, as Croats, Slovenians, Bosnian muslims, Albanians deserted...

    after several incidents, army was in the conflict with Croatian forces... of course, this was not without influence of Serbian politicians who naturally tried to influence the army's leadership to protect Serbs in Croatia...

    in fact, Yugoslavia constitution had fuzzy defined secession. and was interpreted by Slovenian and Croatian political leaders and media as right of republics to separate, and by Serb politicians as right of nations to separate...

    thus, Serb leaders took the attitude that if Croats want to separate they can do that but same right have Serbs living in Croatia... especially because borders of Croatia were drawn by comunist regime, because there was genocide in second world war, and because Serbia as one of the winners of the first world war had right to take those parts and more in 1918, but instead decided to welcome Croats and Slovenes in the Yugoslavia as brother nations.

    To remind you, Serbia has lost in first world war around 1/3 of its citizens... too many lives sacrificed to give the gained teritories as a present to a nation who does not know to respect that and that brutally kills your people whenever history gives them a chance...

    so, while west saw Milosevic as a butcher, he, as bad as he was, was in fact almost a hippie compared to other politicians who were in power in ex-Yugoslav republics... but he had a big disadvantage - he was on the way of US strategic plans for global domination... also, Germany government of that time was strongly pushing Croatia's independence...
    believe what you want it is true. they where tito's pets. not suprising considering he was half slovenian himself they had very priveleged status and they collected customs from every single yugoslav border

    but rest what you have said is true

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    Quote Originally Posted by iapodos View Post
    Short BBC report for proponents of Kosovo independance.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ht/9294175.stm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scokGJga8c

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    @how yes no and others

    Two sides to a story... had a link but cant do link yet....


    Thing is in war there are allot of victims… You try to play the role as only victims.
    Was there deaths of innocent Serbs in the Balkan wars? Yes!!!
    Is it only the fault of others? No – You guys need to stop the blame game. Your politicians and the decisions they made have Lost Kosovo for the Serbs.

    The normal masses of the people in the Balkan need to demand from their politicians to stop this neo national fanaticism. On how great and noble they are and how evil every one else is.

    Balkan self propaganda is based on – The Good, The bad and the Eviel.

    In general all Balkan nations or should I say people need to think of the future. Right now to the rest of Europe you all remain primitive in the manor you all conduct your selves.

    What if other countries in Europe did this? Germany and France – England Germany – Do you think that the people of these nations obsess over every, of the countless wars they have fought. Do their politicians bang on the National drum all the time? For if the rest of Europe conducted them selves in the same manor. Romanticizing every war – every death and territory lost. Well then Europe would be like the Balkan.


    You are all too easy to manipulate from the ones that hold power. All of you need to take a good long look in the mirror.

    No amount of Web warrior propaganda is going to change the View Europe has of people the Balkan. In Fact it confirms the stereotype.

    And this is comes from a half Slav and Half Albanian…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aconform View Post
    @how yes no and others

    ...


    Thing is in war there are allot of victims… You try to play the role as only victims.
    Was there deaths of innocent Serbs in the Balkan wars? Yes!!!
    Is it only the fault of others? No – You guys need to stop the blame game. Your politicians and the decisions they made have Lost Kosovo for the Serbs.
    ...
    In every bigger conflict or war, both sides are deeply believing they are right, and have solid arguments for their viewpoints... especially when there is long history of conflicts, emphasizing snapshots of situation from different timepoints give strong arguments to both sides.... well, there is nothing strange in that...same we see in any conflict between two or more persons... both sides are deeply convinced they are in right...

    I do not try to reverse black and white picture of Balkan wars into white and black picture... what I set as question is whether it was really black and white as it was presented? obviously not... but it was presented in black and white way... and such media representation lead to situation that one side was punished, other rewarded...

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    i think montenegro will be followed by other european regions... belgium may split very soon. scotland, catalonia and basque country then...

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    It is off topic but sins you seem to focus on that we can talk about Kosovo.

    Even if we assume that every bad action on the Serbian side is western propaganda. The Serbians decision to move the army in to Kosovo was at best foolish.

    It comes down to public image of the leaders and people. Again even if we take Serbian take on events that Serbian bad global image was purely due to propaganda and had no merit. They are still factors that should have been considered by the political leadership.

    Main leaders facing each other were on Serb side Slobodan Milosevic and on Kosovo Albanian side Ibrahim Rugova.

    Milosevic international image was extremely bad he was seen as a fanatical nationalist, unreasonable and as a person who played a part or was at fault for the unfortunate events in Bosnia. In short he was seen as an ultra Nationalistic genocidal mad man even if that was propaganda.

    Rugovas image was rather good. He was seen as a moderate and reasonable person. He followed a policy of non violence and passive resistance. His reputation among Albanian also gave him power to hold back the elements that wanted violent confrontation.

    International mediated negotiation The Albanians called for a reversion to the Yugoslav constitutional right they had before they were removed by Milosevic.

    Now taking this in to consideration the worst action Serbia could take was to move the Army in to Kosovo in an attempt to keep Kosovo.

    You also must consider the shame the international community felt in relation to what happened in Bosnia. When the Army moved in to Kosovo there was a public demand that there should be done something. The Albanian was considered an unarmed civilian group. There wasn’t even an Albanian Police force.

    In short the loss of Kosovo and bombings of Belgrade was down to good leadership and bad. Even if you subscribe to the most insane conspiracy theories it was still an illogical and bad tactical move on the Serbian side. Unless of course if there is a theory that the Serb army did not move in to Kosovo. Then yes the Serbian leadership is absolved of any wrong doing.

    In my opinion the worst thing that has happened to the Serb people is that they were unlucky to have Milosevic as their leader. I belive that many Serbs would aggre in that assesment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    Let's see now if they will merge Kosovo with Albania. That seems like the most logical thing to do, but I am not an expert on the matter.
    I am in favour of the independence of Kosovo, but only if it is in accordance with the principles expressed in the Declaration of Independence i.e. implementation of the Ahtisaari plan. It would hopefully bring democracy, equality and rule of law to the society in Kosovo. Merger with Albania is completely unacceptable, realisation of the irredentist idea of "Ethnic Albania."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastko Pocesta View Post
    I am in favour of the independence of Kosovo, but only if it is in accordance with the principles expressed in the Declaration of Independence i.e. implementation of the Ahtisaari plan. It would hopefully bring democracy, equality and rule of law to the society in Kosovo. Merger with Albania is completely unacceptable, realisation of the irredentist idea of "Ethnic Albania."
    Why not? you are supporting Makedonian Issue and want Greeks and Bulgarians and Albanians under an Ex-Communist mafia organised by Tito, but you do not want Kossovo unite with Albania?
    Why not?

    as you say the only Legal is the Kossovo constitution,

    Let the majority of Kossovo people deside,

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    Exactly right iapetoc. Rastko is for the liberties, choices and democracy for all people on this planet,.....but it has to stop if he doesn't like the outcome. Please Rastko, think before you post, because you contradict yourself in your posts, or your position is so off the wall, that I don't know where to start. Try to be more like Homo Cogitans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Exactly right iapetoc. Rastko is for the liberties, choices and democracy for all people on this planet,.....but it has to stop if he doesn't like the outcome. Please Rastko, think before you post, because you contradict yourself in your posts, or your position is so off the wall, that I don't know where to start. Try to be more like Homo Cogitans.
    Your post shows that you have no idea about the issue of Kosovo. According to the United Nations Development Programme survey published in March 2007 only 2.5% Albanians in Kosovo thought that unification is the best solution. 96% said they want Kosovo to become independent within its present borders.

    Unification with Albania is abolition of rights of the minorities - Serbs, Bosniaks, Roma, Gorani etc. Human rights are above all and Kosovo must stay independent and sovereign within its present borders. Everything else is irredentism and threat to stability, democracy and human rights in the region.

    By the way, Josip Broz Tito was not great by any means, but he was most certainly the best leader who ever ruled in this region. It held a world record for most of heads of states, ministers and presidents of legislative bodies in history until April 8, 2005 when the Pope's funeral broke it. Still, it was more visited then the funerals of JFK or Churchill. That tells enough about how world leaders of all nations - from USA to Soviet Union, from United Kingdom to China, respected Tito.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastko Pocesta View Post
    Human rights are above all and Kosovo must stay independent and sovereign within its present borders. Everything else is irredentism and threat to stability, democracy and human rights in the region.
    khm, Kosovo is not really independent...
    If it was independent, than its majority citizens of today would be able to join their native country - Albania... However, in 90s term Kosovars was invented to hide the fact that Albanians already have national state (Albania) and that expanding that state on account of its neighbour state (Serbia) cannot be seen as politically, morally or legally correct. It is as correct as if New Mexico is by Russians given to Mexico, Florida to Cuba, or if Marseille is by new superpower China given to one of Arab countries, or if south Italy or north Greece is given to Albania, or if part of Germany is given to Turkey....
    It is not comparable to prospect that e.g. Kurdistan could become independent country, because Kurds despite extremely large area in which they are majority for long time, do not have national state...

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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    khm, Kosovo is not really independent...
    If it was independent, than its majority citizens of today would be able to join their native country - Albania... However, in 90s term Kosovars was invented to hide the fact that Albanians already have national state (Albania) and that expanding that state on account of its neighbour state (Serbia) cannot be seen as politically, morally or legally correct. It is as correct as if New Mexico is by Russians given to Mexico, Florida to Cuba, or if Marseille is by new superpower China given to one of Arab countries, or if south Italy or north Greece is given to Albania, or if part of Germany is given to Turkey....
    It is not comparable to prospect that e.g. Kurdistan could become independent country, because Kurds despite extremely large area in which they are majority for long time, do not have national state...
    National state is the 19th century concept which is DEAD. All modern countries are multicultural and multiethnic progressive democracies based on the principles of freedom and human rights. Kurdistan shall be independent, as well.

    The genocidal operation "Potkovica", the massacres in Suva Reka, Račak, Podujevo, Velika Kruša, Izbica, Drenica, Gornje Obrinje, Ćuška, Bela Crkva, Orahovac and in Dubrava prison, violated the rights of the majority population on self-determination and consequently they led to North Atlantic Treaty Organization's humanitarian intervention and finally the independence of Kosovo.

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    You are missing the point. In your democratic and liberal priorities let citizens of Kosovo choose what they want. Don't tell them what they can or can't, especially basing your judgment on your political agenda or feelings. Shouldn't you let people to decide what to do? Make your mind dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastko Pocesta View Post
    Your post shows that you have no idea about the issue of Kosovo. According to the United Nations Development Programme survey published in March 2007 only 2.5% Albanians in Kosovo thought that unification is the best solution. 96% said they want Kosovo to become independent within its present borders.

    Unification with Albania is abolition of rights of the minorities - Serbs, Bosniaks, Roma, Gorani etc. Human rights are above all and Kosovo must stay independent and sovereign within its present borders. Everything else is irredentism and threat to stability, democracy and human rights in the region.

    By the way, Josip Broz Tito was not great by any means, but he was most certainly the best leader who ever ruled in this region. It held a world record for most of heads of states, ministers and presidents of legislative bodies in history until April 8, 2005 when the Pope's funeral broke it. Still, it was more visited then the funerals of JFK or Churchill. That tells enough about how world leaders of all nations - from USA to Soviet Union, from United Kingdom to China, respected Tito.

    so you are not supporting unificatio in order of minorities,
    But you support a country like Fyrom which already has much more minorities, to make more, to be a country of 4 primary nations, languages and religions,
    Really your point of view is not the best,
    Fyrom is a mood for fight, and boarder change,
    the UN solutions for kossovo are just to achieve peace, and are not the best for any part,
    in time Kossovo people will decide,
    the no change boarder in bosnia and kossovo for me it is mistaken,
    but you agree to change boarders Greece and Bulgaria, just to create a country of 4 primary nations, 4 primary languages who knows how many other minorities or cultures like tsiggani roma gorani pomaks etc,
    what stability in the region offers Fyrom?


    Tito was smart, he took advantage of Cold war and went to 3rd world, that ment profits for him and his party, in ex Yugoslavia secret meeting of both happened,
    we all know that the best CIA and KGB agents were in Beligradi,
    But Tito solutions F..k up the whole Balkans,
    1 Bosnia
    2 Croatia (kraina I think)
    3 kossovo
    4 fyrom

    the Yugoslavia was an artificial country, to serve both Ussr and Usa,
    Tito named Macedonia an Area that was never Makedonia, and Forgot Dusan's capital Skopje that was Serbia, why?
    Besides in many articles I read that he de-industrialize Serbia which was the bigger industry before WW2 in Balkans

    while you lived in a block Tito had lion's in his garden in a island in Dalmatia.

    the хвала Tito days are over, face truth
    People can think and judge, and search and speak
    we don't need communist party propaganda to tell us, whom and who to applause, and when

    how many wars in Balkans, and still there is open the case for 1 more the Fyrom-Greece

    Tito was a Criminal against Humanity,
    he accepted Tens of Thousands of Greek children from north Greece and never return them back
    Are you supporting that
    are you supporting to take kids from their mothers change their names and never turn them back?
    in order to create an artificial nation? or to expand communism
    .

    face truth, the man was the most discusting Leader the late years, worse than Ottomans that had Yenicars


    the case of kossovo Bosnia Fyrom is one,
    Nations are bounded by blood, culture, language, common memories and not by Geographical terms or a peace treaty.the no change boarders is a temporary solution, and not a terminal,
    the multicultural of now days, we are not certain if will be in future,the multicultural of EU can brake Eu back to the begging,
    the case of Belgium, Spain (Basques Catalania etc) the late in Scotland (parliament etc) proves us that multicultural Europe is not a reality, and can go back to unification movements of 1700-1800
    EU is still a money Union,

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    You are missing the point. In your democratic and liberal priorities let citizens of Kosovo choose what they want. Don't tell them what they can or can't, especially basing your judgment on your political agenda or feelings. Shouldn't you let people to decide what to do? Make your mind dude.
    This is exactly why I was against minaret referendum in Switzerland - you cannot put human rights on the referendum. If Kosovo unites with Albania human rights of minorities are abolished. Therefore, there are certain issues about which majority cannot decide. Those issues are sensistive and related to basic individual freedoms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rastko Pocesta View Post
    National state is the 19th century concept which is DEAD. All modern countries are multicultural and multiethnic progressive democracies based on the principles of freedom and human rights. Kurdistan shall be independent, as well.
    perhaps your liberal ideology makes your views fuzzy and unrealistic, but world is and always was governed by force of stronger...

    I do not think Kurdistan will be independent any time soon...
    Turkey is important part of NATO and in case of NATO-Russia war will have to do largest sacrifice... therefore, it is given right to keep its part of Kurdistan as long as it wants it...


    The genocidal operation "Potkovica", the massacres in Suva Reka, Račak, Podujevo, Velika Kruša, Izbica, Drenica, Gornje Obrinje, Ćuška, Bela Crkva, Orahovac and in Dubrava prison, violated the rights of the majority population on self-determination and consequently they led to North Atlantic Treaty Organization's humanitarian intervention and finally the independence of Kosovo.
    well, I know that ideologists of neoliberal attitudes from Serbia, are very ready to repeat names of those supposed events to spit on own nation...but although, as in most wars, some grouse war crimes did happen, most of the mentioned events are simply invented as documented in this documentary of German TV...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_scokGJga8c

    essentially, wars from 90s were just indirect NATO-Russia war...Milosevic was pro-Russian element and the leaders of the nations who were in war with him were pro-NATO elements...

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by how yes no View Post
    Turkey is important part of NATO and in case of NATO-Russia war will have to do largest sacrifice... therefore, it is given right to keep its part of Kurdistan as long as it wants it...
    Why do people think Russia is still the USSR?

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    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    Why do people think Russia is still the USSR?
    it is not, but strategic games are not changed over night...

    USA won cold war by pulling down iron curtain...
    as a result of this it has spread its influence via NATO far into east Europe...
    that makes Russia nervous as it needs to be sure to preserve vast natural resources in Siberia for its future generations...

    also, by Russia being more and more economical partner of EU, USA strategy makers can see it as treat that may help west Europe to break free from its dependency from USA in military sense....

    so, Russia stays natural enemy of USA... and other way around..it is natural rivalry of the two big powers and large countries... that is quite normal...hopefully, this rivalry will be more and more replaced by partnership for better world...but it is quite possible that in parallel with that ongoing process the two will occasionally keep playing their strategic games through wars between smaller nations...

    most important for future of the world is to avoid global direct confrontation between USA and Russia, as that would likely be the end of the world as we know it... at least in northern hemisphere...

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