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Thread: Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

  1. #351
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    Post 226
    Originally Posted by Carlos

    cataliban,
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    One more thing like this and you are banned forever!
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Do not think it has any future actions and attitudes pseudonazis today in any country in Europe and ridiculously imported least in some Spanish regions, the doctrine baseless die itself.
    Always insulting and manipulating with tendentious (and serious) comparisons. The catalan process has nothing to do with that.

    Moderators please! I think it's time to do something...thanks ;)

  2. #352
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I love you too.


    Let's balance:


    First it is clear that the separatist nationalist policy is able to mobilize their electorate at will now have to make a human chain, now you have to make a human Vee, now you have to go to vote.


    As stated by the Andalusian communist Anguita this ideas of the separatist Catalan bourgeoisie implanted in the Catalan town assimilating these ideas and endorses.


    But we have seen in a sorry exercise pulse is unfortunate Spanish State to hide behind the electorate, some people willingly do what their masters tell them I mean the parasitic caste Catalan nationalist but is useless in the end.


    In the absence of a genuine and effective policy to Catalan nationalism hides behind his electorate.


    The mock election was a fiasco, a scam, a disgrace to democracy.


    There was no electoral census
    In pseudoelectorales tables only had independence representatives.
    Voters children under 16 years
    Voters children 16
    Voters illegal immigrants.
    The same person could vote up to four urns (btw cardboard) different.


    In some tables has been the national numbering documentao identity of those who were voting no.


    Tricks and traps will anyone familiar?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    In this picture you can clearly see the same person at different depositing his ballot polls, vote the same times. This is the democracy of the Separatists.

    Attachment 6839

  4. #354
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Fraud 9N: a consultation on voting until children
    Lacked VOTE DEMOCRATIC ANY WARRANTY
    drafting
    Monday, November 10, 2014, 14:01
    Barcelona.- simulation secessionist referendum held Sunday in Catalonia was a pantomime-not had any legally valid but also a fudge and a fraud. And is that the vote lacked any democratic guarantee. So, as many citizens are denouncing social networks, could be seen during the day to Catalans who voted several times, they did with a fake ID or you were dressed, being impossible to identify them. There were also constraints on the part of the organizers in the same polling or manipulation of ballots. And then a count in which, for example, a man in charge of doing was Oriol Junqueras leader ERC.


    An example of this democratic scam 9N was found in some pictures that have been posted on the social networks in which children appear to vote, although they were called to the polls over 16 years. It is conceivable that parents let their children enter the ballot in the ballot box because Tthat illusion makes them and, therefore, does not mean they are voting, but in any case, this practice is prohibited in any minimally regular ballot, where even are in charge of the polling station who introduced the envelope in the ballot box to prevent from scoring more than one.


    > In the picture, a girl in the office by voting this Sunday.




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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Also illegal immigrants voted in this farce. What would they have promised?





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    What can you expect from someone who is able to devour her own son?

    Europe does not need this.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    1- The guy did not vote 3 times. Two of his friends gave their ID paper in 2 more places and, after that (in front of the supervisor and the other guys), it was him the one who put the ballot inside for them. Very easy to understand, even for you: 3 separate votes by 3 different people, no problem.

    2- Children did not give any ID. Parents did and, after that, it works the same way: the vote still comes from the adult, doesn't matter who put the ballot inside if there's a supervisor in front of the person.

    3- Immigrants living in Catalonia for at least one year (showing all the documents) were able to vote. So they're not illegal, indeed, there are a lot of immigrants with a reference residence inscribed in many different municipalities (including the rest of Spain). Go and say that to the central government then.

    4- Search the info yourself.

    5- What are you doing here? you should be banned. Moderators please! read my previous post. Thanks!

  8. #358
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    I am a bit angry with the way Madrid has handled this situation: Because, I think that the poll should have been legal. If I were the centralized government (Madrid) and in control of Spain (in terms of strategy) I believe there would probably be no choice but to let Catalonia go, if they had voted YES in a legal referendum. If the Catalonians voted No, then Spain would have absolutely nothing to worry about; at least for a while.

    I do not mean to make people upset; but I believe Madrid being provocative towards Catalonia is having dire consequences: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30111044

    Catalonia seems like it may be destined to go. Catalonia already has an intense nationalist movement and is a pretty wealthy region. And, compared to the oppressive government of Spain with a falling economy; Madrid's provocative intervention into Catalonia will only bring more division. And Spain as a whole just simply doesn't have the resources or respect, to support this region anymore. I see Madrid has not handled this situation well and the consequences of this may be drastic.

    All in all, there were much bigger cons to Madrid not letting Catalonia have a legal polling. There would be more pros to letting Catalonia have a fair and legal polling referendum, rather than an illegal one. If you recall your history, Slovenia broke away from Yugoslavia with an 88% of the population voting for independence. (Catalonia is 80.5%) But I believe Yugoslavia had deemed the Slovenian referendum illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    81% voted for independence
    This data sharing is equivalent to 31.77% of the 6,224,140 people, according to the National Statistics Institute, are officially surveyed in Catalonia with more than 16 years, the limit set by the Government to participate in the consultation this 9-N.

    Citizen participation in the independence talks on Sunday in Catalonia low 25 points on the regional elections held in this community in 2012 and down 22 points from the overall 2011.

    Less than general
    The percentage turnout of 31.77%-extracted from the INE statistics are well below regular participation in Catalonia, according to data collected by the agency Servimedia the latest regional and general elections.

    A complete failure, was practically only vote for these elections the pro-independence voters, the vast majority of the Catalan population stayed at home and not be interested in showing the indepedencia.


    The data speak for themselves is evident.

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    I am a bit angry with the way Madrid has handled this situation: Because, I think that the poll should have been legal. If I were the centralized government (Madrid) and in control of Spain (in terms of strategy) I believe there would probably be no choice but to let Catalonia go, if they had voted YES in a legal referendum. If the Catalonians voted No, then Spain would have absolutely nothing to worry about; at least for a while.

    I do not mean to make people upset; but I believe Madrid being provocative towards Catalonia is having dire consequences: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30111044

    Catalonia seems like it may be destined to go. Catalonia already has an intense nationalist movement and is a pretty wealthy region. And, compared to the oppressive government of Spain with a falling economy; Madrid's provocative intervention into Catalonia will only bring more division. And Spain as a whole just simply doesn't have the resources or respect, to support this region anymore. I see Madrid has not handled this situation well and the consequences of this may be drastic.

    All in all, there were much bigger cons to Madrid not letting Catalonia have a legal polling. There would be more pros to letting Catalonia have a fair and legal polling referendum, rather than an illegal one. If you recall your history, Slovenia broke away from Yugoslavia with an 88% of the population voting for independence. (Catalonia is 80.5%) But I believe Yugoslavia had deemed the Slovenian referendum illegal.



    According to Rajoy, we have witnessed "a profound failure of the independence project." The president has shown the limited mobilization achieved Artur Mas, since two thirds of Catalans missed their call for vote on Sunday, even as their own accounts. "It was a demonstration of weakness, not strength." After much noise and so much money spent campaign, said Rajoy, is that two thirds of Catalans did not want to play along Artur Mas.

    Rajoy insisted that Artur Mas will gain no political advantage for their separatist challenge, and has defended the government's actions from the beginning. "The government has defended the law, has taken decisions proportionality and moderation.

    The Senior Prosecutor of Catalonia this morning the lawsuit against the president of the Generalitat, Artur Mas, and against the vice president, Joana Ortega, and the Minister of Education, Irene Rigau, for his role in organizing the so-called "participatory process "9-N. The offenses for which the accused are trespass, disobedience, embezzlement and usurpation of its functions.

    In Spain the bizarre Catalan separatists have become a classic internet humor.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    This data sharing is equivalent to 31.77% of the 6,224,140 people, according to the National Statistics Institute, are officially surveyed in Catalonia with more than 16 years, the limit set by the Government to participate in the consultation this 9-N.

    Citizen participation in the independence talks on Sunday in Catalonia low 25 points on the regional elections held in this community in 2012 and down 22 points from the overall 2011.

    Less than general
    The percentage turnout of 31.77%-extracted from the INE statistics are well below regular participation in Catalonia, according to data collected by the agency Servimedia the latest regional and general elections.

    A complete failure, was practically only vote for these elections the pro-independence voters, the vast majority of the Catalan population stayed at home and not be interested in showing the indepedencia.


    The data speak for themselves is evident.
    Where is the link for these fantasy figures from Madrid ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Where is the link for these fantasy figures from Madrid ???
    Do you doubt it? It was a failure. Besides the kids vote, voters, aged 16, an illegal immigrant vote, who voted repeatedly. It is an international scandal. A hot flash. The great Catalan ciudadadania stayed home, just went to vote on independence electorate that does everything her master commands him, now a human V, now a human chain now all out on the street, but most do nothing this, stay at home quietly.

    You live in the antipodes of Spain, I'm beginning to believe that the News has can reach out to a confused, you do not have a real vision of my country or of the Catalan region.


    70%-30%

    And I repeat and remind you that voting was 30%, which included children, people 16 years illegal immigrants and people who voted repeatedly.

    Son bizarradas independentistas.
    Todavía estamos riendo en el resto de España.

    Por favor asegúrese que le llegan las noticias frescas a su lejano país, no se deje manipular por medios separatistas. En Cataluña, El periódico, La Vanguardia, TV3 e.t.c. están subvencionados por Artus Mas y su gobierno, no lea basura del régimen.

    España es mucha España.

    El 70% se quedó en casa confortablemente. Oh mamma mía!!! ¿Se da cuenta?

    ¿Lo ha entendido o se lo repito?

  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Do you doubt it? It was a failure. Besides the kids vote, voters, aged 16, an illegal immigrant vote, who voted repeatedly. It is an international scandal. A hot flash. The great Catalan ciudadadania stayed home, just went to vote on independence electorate that does everything her master commands him, now a human V, now a human chain now all out on the street, but most do nothing this, stay at home quietly.

    You live in the antipodes of Spain, I'm beginning to believe that the News has can reach out to a confused, you do not have a real vision of my country or of the Catalan region.


    70%-30%

    And I repeat and remind you that voting was 30%, which included children, people 16 years illegal immigrants and people who voted repeatedly.

    Son bizarradas independentistas.
    Todavía estamos riendo en el resto de España.

    Por favor asegúrese que le llegan las noticias frescas a su lejano país, no se deje manipular por medios separatistas. En Cataluña, El periódico, La Vanguardia, TV3 e.t.c. están subvencionados por Artus Mas y su gobierno, no lea basura del régimen.

    España es mucha España.

    El 70% se quedó en casa confortablemente. Oh mamma mía!!! ¿Se da cuenta?

    ¿Lo ha entendido o se lo repito?
    i get this from newspaper

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica...ltados-9n.html


    you give me your racist views


    you know when nationalism began around 1800, lies multiplied ten fold by the governments


    Edit:
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29982960

    I will ask again, where did you get your racist data?

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    The media in Catalonia are subsidized by the regional government of the separatist nationalism bone, are not reliable means. Separatism is a minority vote was only 30% and low when you consider that voting were children, teenagers also 16, illegal immigrants, foreign more people vote repeatedly. A failure.

    It is the reality of Catalonia, the majority was not interested in the independence movement, is moving separatist politics to the electorate to get privileges at the expense of other regions.


    Not wanting to admit it is their problem not mine.

    Last edited by Carlos; 25-11-14 at 10:00.

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    Carlos tendentiously ignores the fact that there's always more than 30% of the Catalan population who NEVER votes. The total number of votes PSC, PP, C's, PxC, UPyD accounts for approximately 1.3 million. So I highly doubt his pro-Spanish friends can win referendum. No need to say that not all PSC is against independence, even there was people in PxC (Fascists, though) who created another political party in favor of independence.

    I will report the moderators myself because I think they missed some comments.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    Carlos tendentiously ignores the fact that there's always more than 30% of the Catalan population who NEVER votes. The total number of votes PSC, PP, C's, PxC, UPyD accounts for approximately 1.3 million. So I highly doubt his pro-Spanish friends can win referendum. No need to say that not all PSC is against independence, even there was people in PxC (Fascists, though) who created another political party in favor of independence.

    I will report the moderators myself because I think they missed some comments.
    I think we need to let him (Carlos) have his own thoughts and opinions on the matter. Sorry Knovas.

    Don't ban him Moderators; let's keep him here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    I think we need to let him (Carlos) have his own thoughts and opinions on the matter. Sorry Knovas.

    Don't ban him Moderators; let's keep him here.
    sometimes there needs to be a sacrifice............but I do not wear the black hood!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    I think we need to let him (Carlos) have his own thoughts and opinions on the matter. Sorry Knovas.

    Don't ban him Moderators; let's keep him here.
    To call people in favor of independence Catalibans or nazis it is not an opinion, my friend. In fact, it is an infraction. Case closed.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I agree with Knovas. Plus Carlos is extremely biased and the way he expresses himself nullifies his few valid arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    To call people in favor of independence Catalibans or nazis it is not an opinion, my friend. In fact, it is an infraction. Case closed.
    It's only an insult if you make it to be one though. Carlos has indeed tried to reason peacefully with the people here; on the other hand. Like, I'm not for you guys or against you, I'm just stating a fact.

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    While talking about Nazi ideology and Spain/Catalonia.

    I came across this article a few days ago.

    http://rt.com/in-motion/208143-madri...h-anniversary/

    Nazi-saluting supporters celebrate General Franco's anniversary

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    While talking about Nazi ideology and Spain/Catalonia.

    I came across this article a few days ago.

    http://rt.com/in-motion/208143-madri...h-anniversary/

    Nazi-saluting supporters celebrate General Franco's anniversary
    I must admit, these demonstrations aren't very healthy to the Hispanic/Iberian culture. They will only cause further tensions and division. I see from Spain's point of view (or Madrid's, however you want to view this prospect.) that they are acting more out of aggression rather than trying to respect the Catalan people.

    It is beginning to get out of hand and I have been warning people of the dire consequences of these events. (Catalonian flag burning, Spanish central-government intimidation and threats, Neo-Nazis and Fascists.) We don't want to see something like Yugoslavia and the Balkanic wars, in all likelihood; and of course innocents killed. And Portugal being in the midst of this, would really make it worse. Would this situation turn into a civil war, over economy and such; Spain should be a little more shrewd and strategic in their handling of the country. I predict their intimidation and harassment of Catalonia is only a zeitgeist and premonition of bad things to come. Will the current situation turn into something really worse? Spain and their government are acting with overconfidence; (in my opinion) and the centralized government should focus more on their failing economy; rather than trying to intimidate regions such as Catalonia. If Catalonia breaks apart, and there is some internal conflict/civil war. The new independent Catalonia, and Spain; as well as countries surrounding Spain (most notably Portugal) will have to have a run for their money, in order to protect their economy.

    If Portugal was smart, they should side with Spain (should there be any conflict). If Portugal acts as a belligerent, things can get really bad and wild. Both Portugal and Spain are countries with failing economies; and if they do not learn to respect each other, or work together; the Iberian peninsula could be heading on the path to some massive devastation and destruction.

    I have personally never seen Spain so insane and divided before. (In May, the North voted Right-wing and the South voted Left-wing Socialist; while the Catalonians and Basques voted for their own nationalist parties.) There are a lot of angry and confused people. Quite obviously and understandably. And Madrid will have to take a lot of effort into trying to restore the country. (Even if it means getting Catalonia independence and breaking off that region- because there are more cons to a civil war than letting a region split into a nation peacefully.)

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    Keep in mind that the Catalan nationalism has over 30 years doing false advertising abroad. Spain is a democratic country, the central government is not so central, we are a country of autonomies where these autonomies have reached unthinkable levels of self-governments in other countries, including Europe itself. It is true that time privileges to regions with independence aspirations already demonstrated after mock referémdum the 9N in Catalonia who are a minority over. I do not know how things look from Louisiana or from New Zealand, but it is clear that are very distorted views of reality. The regionalist nationalist policies intended only small privileges and its threat to the state is the separation, but when the truth are a minority in their own regions. Freedom is the same for all Spaniards, is the mentality of modern Spanish, after centuries of privileges these small regions have nothing, invented nothing, they have a strong own industry, why keep giving privileges? The Spanish policy is in the process of transformation after recent corruption scandals, and the catalan policy is outdated, in the past, inactive, asking and asking, unable incapable of creating anything, just threatening the state's independence, and the moment of truth 30% and traps.


    Make no mistake when he speaks of Spain / Catalonia, you can not talk bilateralemente of Spain / Catalonia as if it were two states. It's not real. It is a range with a nationalist government trying to arm wrestle the state on the grounds of independence and thanks to temperance Rajoy has shown that they are a minority. There are many things to do in Spain and it would be better to work shoulder to shoulder not be thinking about oneself, or feel more rights than any other citizen and especially not skip the laws and rules. Artur Mas will give an account and abide by the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Keep in mind that the Catalan nationalism has over 30 years doing false advertising abroad. Spain is a democratic country, the central government is not so central, we are a country of autonomies where these autonomies have reached unthinkable levels of self-governments in other countries, including Europe itself. It is true that time privileges to regions with independence aspirations already demonstrated after mock referémdum the 9N in Catalonia who are a minority over. I do not know how things look from Louisiana or from New Zealand, but it is clear that are very distorted views of reality. The regionalist nationalist policies intended only small privileges and its threat to the state is the separation, but when the truth are a minority in their own regions. Freedom is the same for all Spaniards, is the mentality of modern Spanish, after centuries of privileges these small regions have nothing, invented nothing, they have a strong own industry, why keep giving privileges? The Spanish policy is in the process of transformation after recent corruption scandals, and the catalan policy is outdated, in the past, inactive, asking and asking, unable incapable of creating anything, just threatening the state's independence, and the moment of truth 30% and traps.


    Make no mistake when he speaks of Spain / Catalonia, you can not talk bilateralemente of Spain / Catalonia as if it were two states. It's not real. It is a range with a nationalist government trying to arm wrestle the state on the grounds of independence and thanks to temperance Rajoy has shown that they are a minority. There are many things to do in Spain and it would be better to work shoulder to shoulder not be thinking about oneself, or feel more rights than any other citizen and especially not skip the laws and rules. Artur Mas will give an account and abide by the law.
    You are probably right, in the sense I admit I do not know how well Spain is structured; especially since I am an ocean across from you here in Louisiana. And you are a native Spaniard. So, for me it would be kind of silly to hypothesize an inner conflict or a civil war, as a foreign spectator. But given the data and info, analysis etc. that I know about Spain, it seems like the possibilities of an internal conflict could very well be a high possibility.

    I have heard that if Catalonians get independence; the Basques have threatened to get independence illegally. And I have also heard that Galicia is about the least technologically advanced region in Spain; I know their nationalist movements aren't as lively, aggressive or acknowledged as the other two (Catalonia and Basque country) But the Galician citizens are poor, in poverty; and they are tired of waiting. I would wonder in a scenario, if Nationalism would win in the Iberian peninsula, and Catalonia got independence. Would that cause the Basque country to try to get independence too? And maybe the Galicians? The Galicians have a nationalist movement themselves; and I could very well see in the future and would not be surprised if there was a possibility they were annexed to Portugal. Galicians and Portuguese are very culturally related.

    Something to think about.

    I also believe that Andalusians and Canary Islanders have their own Nationalist movements. But they aren't as acknowledged as the Catalonian and Basque movements, and the more obscure Galician nationalist movement. I've heard from several Andalusians (personally, myself) that they don't even view Andalusia as Spain either; much like the Catalans. And they view it as Andalusia, with an Andalusian "Spanish" language. Do you have anything to say about that? (Or is this just propaganda?)

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