Politics Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

[Sile]

Well residents of the rest of Spain would leave bands Catalonia Catalonia taking their savings and end up like Detroit.

Its very bad with a Spain as it is .............it will get better for some IF Catalonia or Galicia or whoever leaves and gets their FREEDOM.

 

[Carlos]

Its very bad with a Spain as it is .............it will get better for some IF Catalonia or Galicia or whoever leaves and gets their FREEDOM.

You have a very clear idea of Spain. The first is that the term "freedom" is misapplied Spain is a free and regions that compose it well so that there is no freedom to achieve. Second Galicia is super pro-Spain like Catalonia is not confused. The problem is in the politocracia (new aristocracy) about six families related to each other that handle regionalist independence for more privileges from the State by the threat of separatism, brainwashing, inventing history, think that the Catalan region owes its development to all of Spain when the 40-year dictatorship was given the Spanish market exclusivity, privileges that have not taken advantage of and just created a small industry of large multinational subsidiary, nothing is forever and today many companies have Catalonia left or have moved their headquarters to other parts of Spain by strong boycott carried out in Spain against Catalonia made ​​products in response to the contempt politicians accoutrements independence exercised towards his own country which is Spain. It's all nonsense because regionalist nationalism in these few regions was imported from central europe to Catalonia for a few enlightened and started to copy the racist doctrine in developing
a racist compared to the rest of the Spanish population when Nazism was defeated racist discourse is not valid so cling to having a different language and are thus far

 

[Knovas]

Funny fairy tales.

6 families related to each other = 1'5 million people in the last demonstration. Do not forget your medication to prevent heart attacks on next September 11 LOL.

I laugh at boycotts, as many well informed Catalans do. The last one ended up with more Cava sold all over the world, and finally the few Spaniards who started this nonsense bought it again.

Time to leave wonderland Carlos. No catastrophe and no civil war this time. Catalonia is not what you pretend, deal with it.

PD: Freedom to decide if we want to be part of Spain or not. In other words, if we want to manage our own resources or continue like that, letting Spain do so. ¿Got it? ¬¬

 

[Sile]

Funny fairy tales.

6 families related to each other = 1'5 million people in the last demonstration. Do not forget your medication to prevent heart attacks on next September 11 LOL.

I laugh at boycotts, as many well informed Catalans do. The last one ended up with more Cava sold all over the world, and finally the few Spaniards who started this nonsense bought it again.

Time to leave wonderland Carlos. No catastrophe and no civil war this time. Catalonia is not what you pretend, deal with it.

PD: Freedom to decide if we want to be part of Spain or not. In other words, if we want to manage our own resources or continue like that, letting Spain do so. ¿Got it? ¬¬

I thought the catalans where close to getting their "freedom" , basically in a similar position as Scotland to vote for Independence.

The Veneti have a referendum coming soon.
On 10 January 2013 a delegation of IV submitted to the European Commission in Brussels a petition, signed by 50,000 Venetian citizens, to endorse the referendum on self-determination.^[52] According to IV leaders, the European Union should support the referendum and guarantee its result.^[53]

In March an appeal by international academics in support of resolution 44 was issued. The declaration, promoted by Marco Bassani, was signed by Frank Van Dun, Hans-Hermann Hoppe, Donald Livingston, Ralph Raico, Xavier Sala-i-Martin, and Pascal Salin, along with Paolo Bernardini, Carlo Lottieri and Alessandro Vitale. According to the appeal, "the self-determination process" of Veneto "will be an important step toward a better Europe and men of goodwill have to do everything possible to ensure that the electoral process leading to the independence referendum takes place without tension and with respect for all the people involved".^[54]
support for independence rose to 56.7% in January 2013.^[34][35]

Latest is that the vote will be at the end of the year,.............. IMO, with 91% preferring full atonomy over full independence, the full atonomy will be the first step. The constitution of Italy since 1971 already recognised only Sardinians and Veneti as different "popolo" ( people) within Italy.

 

[Knovas]

Nice. Hope Venetians gain their freedom

 

[Cambrius (The Red)]

Funny fairy tales.

6 families related to each other = 1'5 million people in the last demonstration. Do not forget your medication to prevent heart attacks on next September 11 LOL.

I laugh at boycotts, as many well informed Catalans do. The last one ended up with more Cava sold all over the world, and finally the few Spaniards who started this nonsense bought it again.

Time to leave wonderland Carlos. No catastrophe and no civil war this time. Catalonia is not what you pretend, deal with it.

PD: Freedom to decide if we want to be part of Spain or not. In other words, if we want to manage our own resources or continue like that, letting Spain do so. ¿Got it? ¬¬

If Catalonia goes independent, the Basques will follow.

 

[Carlos]

Baron I thought the catalans where close to getting their "freedom"

Do not be confused Spain is a free and its 17 autonomous form or did you think that Catalonia is oppressed by Spain? please recover common sense. This is all part of the manipulation of language by Catalan politics.

 

[Knovas]

Believe it or not, there was a time Catalonia didn't ask other regions, just decided its own destiny. That was thanks to the Catalan Constitutions you deliberately ignored (see page 10), which were forbidden by the so called "Decreto de Nueva Planta". So it would be fair at least to ask us if we want a similar situation in that sense, since Catalonia was forced to adopt the present day status, and Spain NEVER tried to restore what was taken from us (simply by asking, not a huge effort at all). ¿Don't you think? Blocking what was voted recently by the vast majority of the Catalans as your government does, ¿isn't it opressive?

Until you accept such obvious things, forget about masterful classes on freedom and democracy. Time to use common sense.

 

[Carlos]

Believe it or not, there was a time Catalonia didn't ask other regions, just decided its own destiny. That was thanks to the Catalan Constitutions you deliberately ignored (see page 10), which were forbidden by the so called "Decreto de Nueva Planta". So it would be fair at least to ask us if we want a similar situation in that sense, since Catalonia was forced to adopt the present day status, and Spain NEVER tried to restore what was taken from us (simply by asking, not a huge effort at all). ¿Don't you think? Blocking what was voted recently by the vast majority of the Catalans as your government does, ¿isn't it opressive?

Until you accept such obvious things, forget about masterful classes on freedom and democracy. Time to use common sense.

When Spain entered upon a Democracy Dictatorship Catalan population like the rest of the country voted YES to the new Constitution. And Catalonia has never been forced to anything, since regional governments brought democracy to Spain, previously lived in a dictatorship, all regions were having their regional governments, is abusurdo talk bilaterally Spain-Catalonia, speaks bilateralemente two countries : France-Spain, US.A. - Germany, you know? to live there and fictitious parallel realities can be harmful to health.

 

[Sile]

When Spain entered upon a Democracy Dictatorship Catalan population like the rest of the country voted YES to the new Constitution. And Catalonia has never been forced to anything, since regional governments brought democracy to Spain, previously lived in a dictatorship, all regions were having their regional governments, is abusurdo talk bilaterally Spain-Catalonia, speaks bilateralemente two countries : France-Spain, US.A. - Germany, you know? to live there and fictitious parallel realities can be harmful to health.

Let these people go, give them their freedom. Fascist Franco is Dead. Move with the modern times.
The UN broke up cultures of yugoslavia because they did not want to be together as a nation, does Spain need to go into the blood bath of that balkan war or have they the brains to go the czech/slovakia way.

 

[Carlos]

Let these people go, give them their freedom. Fascist Franco is Dead. Move with the modern times.
The UN broke up cultures of yugoslavia because they did not want to be together as a nation, does Spain need to go into the blood bath of that balkan war or have they the brains to go the czech/slovakia way.

Spain is a free and democratic friend and has favored for decades precisely some regions at the expense of the other. Do not forget that the Catalan nationalist party CiU has ruled as hinge sometimes with the PSOE and the PP other is responsible for the current situation Spain now serves not to run and tell and no mistake Spain is a democratic country composed of 17 or autonomous regions, the problem it poses a policy that uses the argument of secession as a weapon of blackmail to the Spanish state itself to continue to have privileges at the expense of other regions and that is of the past. Anyway do not be confused this is not the entire population are voters of these parties that do what they're told their masters. Remember Spain is a democratic free country do not press any of its regions no official international body recognizes that stupidity is an invention of the Catalan nationalist politics. Please. A house of cards I want to be Superman but never will be because I've never been before.

Do some research. You choose to believe lies or trying to see reality. There are some very good websites or blogs on the Internet Spain that usually headline: (Mitos y mentiras del nacionalismo catalán) (Mites y mentides del nacionalisme catalanista) Myths and Lies of Catalan nationalism. in these sites is explained and removed to perfection each fictitious lies and inventions Catalan nationalist politics.

Spartacus save me Oh my Good!

 

[Knovas]

I already knew you would post about the Spanish Constitution and the votes. Pointless; I'll tell you why:

As I said, the Catalans never had the oportunity to recover their own Constitution, since Spain never asked about this (the only valid question if you consider the true history). Immediatly after the dictatorship with all the Spanish army ready to invade Catalonia if necessary, tell us what other option the disarmed Catalans had in that context, please. Obviously no choice, but with the new promises regarding autonomy, most Catalans thought it would be possible in a truly democratic state to achieve their goals and decide their own future. Some politicians like Jordi Pujol tried to work hand by hand with Spain, nothing wrong with it: he wanted to achieve benefits for the Catalan people and find out the best way to remain all together, that is, of course, respecting the Catalan singularity. But it was your Spanish government, and not Catalonia, the one which denied all claims and discussions. Because of this, now Jordi Pujol is another independentist, he realised there was absolutly no possibility with Spain. That is also why other Catalans, nationalists, but not independentists, nowadays want to get out of Spain as soon as possible.

In short for you to understand: it is all your fault (I mean people like you and the Spanish politicians). Your attitude is not democratic at all, doesn't matter you repeat the same lie like a parrot a thousand times. The Catalans choose to decide if they want to remain in Spain or leave, that is what the votes told us in the last elections. And if Spain pretends to be a democratic state as you say, then what to do is so clear: let us vote, follow David Cameron's example.

But you won't do it. So please, no more useless lessons. Thanks.

PD: I highly doubt you voted the Spanish Constitution. I didn't, most Catalans who are still alive didn't. Time to think about it, your Constitution means nothing to us. Trust me, it won't stop the process, you can bet on it.

 

[Carlos]

The right to choose to decide is a need created by the politicians, do not forget the Catalan political system is in the hands of a few families politocracia related to each other, do not forget that the Pujol family is being investigated for alleged capital flight havens tax Pujol's son has casinos, bingo halls and hotels in USA and it is an ordinary family.


The Spanish Constitution was voted by all Spanish and it is logical that the Constitutional Court rejects proposed anti regions constitutional proposals, you can not play to democracy as we are interested and accept the laws and regulations that concern us we must also accept the rejections crazy proposals.


In short, a house of cards or castles in the air. Do not forget that it was Isabel of Castile l which Catalan peasants liberated a completely horrific suffering of bondage. Look what he said Catalan nationalist politician: When we separate what we do want. You yourself arrpentiría, would be awful and as many intellectuals have baticinado be a kind of totalitarian dictatorship, there is nothing more to see the current path already taken by the Spanish region with the famous Castilian discrimination the official language of all Spanish or anonymous complaints and subsequent fines for merchants who label their businesses in Spanish. Imagine if they were a country or a nation would run yourself there.

At present in Spain are commenting nationalist politicians are the ones who are destroying Catalonia than in the past was the economic engine of Spain and small businesses today are moving their business Catalans to Madrid, this year about 21.


Totalitarianism and these retrograde tendencies and Central Europe do not exist in countries that were invented, how it is possible that you are copying and providing a substitute so ridiculous by a few families related to each other (politocracia Catalan) and voters Llevana where it wishes, now comes a demonstration street now put candles now put that flag with the star invented the million and a half and does everything he is told, what about the rest of the population those 6 or 7 million people who will not obey independence demonstrations or Catalan politocracia orders? that's the real people who have the right to decent work for your future, not on voting situations created by a few families related to each other and pulling the strings that are being investigated in the acutalidad because they are all billionaires and their origins were humble.

 

[Knovas]

I read the "six families" fairy tale a hundred times thanks to you. You better watch more TV news and judge by yourself on September 11 if what you see are six families or thousands of them. Again, pointless since the begining of your argument.

Pujol was chased long ago because of the "Banca Catalana" issue, and finally came out innocent. He did nothing strange or wrong, the only reason was Spain wanted to close this Bank. So be careful with your investigations. To start with, Pujol is not responsible of his sons actions. If they did something, they are the only ones who would face the problems. As usual you avoid mentioning the Spanish corruption and pretend to show Catalonia as the most corrupt region. No surprise.

Normal eh? I'm afraid most Europeans don't think so. A democracy it is supposed to reflect what the people want, and if the Catalan society wants to decide on independence, then Spain as a democratic country should do the same as the UK with Scottland. If you think that is a crazy proposal, forget about freedom and democracy as I said, since this is by far the best example one can find. Like it or not, democracy is also accepting all nations right to decide, and Catalonia is a nation by history and culture. If you still doubt it, I suggest you for the second time to see page 10. The "agreement" with a Constitution under the fear of arms, which surely would have led to a second era of "Franco", has absolutely no value guy. I already explained that, read the posts before posting, please...I spend a lot of time deciphering your messages.

No discrimanation boy. We speak Castilian and Catalan and there's no problem. If you don't understand that the original language of Catalonia is Catalan (not Castilian or Spanish), that is your problem. If Catalonia does not protect the Catalan language, of course, your lovely Spanish government won't do so (rather the oppsite). All nations with state and an own language defend their culture, exactly what Catalonia tries to do despite of Spain and its politicians.

Don't you see there's no other solution but separation? why still keeping this agony? That is ilogical and insane. We'll follow our own way, like it or not. You'll have to accept it or remain angry for life, it's up to you.

 

[Carlos]

Mitos y mentiras del nacionalismo catalán. (Myths and lies of Catalan nationalism)


There are blogs, sites also written by Catalan and other regions of Spain where point by point every lie of Catalan nationalism is a fulminant removed.

 

[Knovas]

Send them my posts and we'll all have fun reading their "corrections". I'm afraid they would be more busy revising your writings lol.

 

[Carlos]

Send them my posts and we'll all have fun reading their "corrections". I'm afraid they would be more busy revising your writings lol.

Why speak for "all" can not access enough personality to speak for itself?

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I remind our foreign friends can also read on the internet is a celebrity Albert Boadella Catalonian world of the performing arts and is a joy to read and observe their stance on the issue. It's that kind of good, reliable and brilliant people will put into orbit on the drift as surreal and ridiculous that it has taken the Catalan nationalist politics.

 

[Knovas]

Of course I can speak for all if I read the "info" you recommend and can prove it as non valid and completely laughable. Not kidding guys, get ready to laugh out loud, this is what Carlos proposes against the Catalan nationalism:

España no nace hace 300 años con la crisis institucional de 1714, ni tampoco nace en el s.XV con el matrimonio de Isabel y Fernando. España (o la unidad política y cultural que representa) es una realidad histórica desde hace más de 2.000 años. En cambio, Cataluña es sólo una gota en el mar de la Historia.

Translation
Spain did not originate 300 years ago after 1714's institutional crisis, neither in the 15th century with the marriage between Isabel and Fernando. Spain (or the political and cultural unity represented) is an historical reality since more than 2000 years. On the other hand, Catalonia is just a drop in the ocean of history.

First Spanish Constitution:

LOL

By the way, Albert Boadella, once a normal person, has become a crazy old clown blinded by the Spanish nationalism. Judge yourself the other example proposed by Carlos:

 

[Carlos]

Albert Boadella is a genius of the Performing Arts and has made a visual parody have to read it too.

Incidentally MRW transport the leader in Spain moved its headquarters to Madrid this is what is getting more unemployment catalan nationalist politics is all you will get.

http://www.lavozlibre.com/noticias/ampliar/799341/mrw-hace-su-propia-mudanza-de-cataluna-a-madrid


On the Constitution of Cadiz Cadiz Live! and open-minded thought.


Luckily our friends foreign are very educated and know that was the first and that the evolution of history then there was another Constitution and Spanish who voted recently all I recall was 1978.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Constitution_of_1812

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitución_española_de_1978

The Constitution was ratified by referendum on December 6, 1978 and was later sanctioned by King Juan Carlos I on December 27 and published in the Official Gazette on 29 December of the same year. The promulgation of the Constitution meant the culmination of the Spanish transition call, which took place as a result of death, November 20, 1975, the former Head of State, General and dictator Francisco Franco, precipitating a series of political and previous historical Franco regime transformed into a social and democratic state of law, in the form of parliamentary monarchy policy
Spain will enforce the Constitution.


Remember: Mitos y mentiras del nacionalismo catalán. Myths and Lies of Catalan nationalism will enjoy reading

 

[Knovas]

Long ago he was a normal person, read what I say. NOW he's crazy, specially commenting or performing "parodies" about Catalonia.

Obsession.

You better worry more about Madrid and its headquarters when Catalonia gets independence. What do you think companies with NO ACTIVITY in Madrid will do then? move the whole production or close the headquarters? The easiest way is pretty obvious, maybe you get the point with little effort.

The Constitution was ratified by referendum on December 6, 1978

Read the posts, please, and post about the alternatives if you can:

Immediatly after the dictatorship with all the Spanish army ready to invade Catalonia if necessary, tell us what other option the disarmed Catalans had in that context, please. Obviously no choice, but with the new promises regarding autonomy, most Catalans thought it would be possible in a truly democratic state to achieve their goals and decide their own future.

Oooh!

Remember: Mitos y mentiras del nacionalismo catalán. Myths and Lies of Catalan nationalism will enjoy reading

Ok, no problem:

España no nace hace 300 años con la crisis institucional de 1714, ni tampoco nace en el s.XV con el matrimonio de Isabel y Fernando. España (o la unidad política y cultural que representa) es una realidad histórica desde hace más de 2.000 años. En cambio, Cataluña es sólo una gota en el mar de la Historia.

Translation
Spain did not originate 300 years ago after 1714's institutional crisis, neither in the 15th century with the marriage between Isabel and Fernando. Spain (or the political and cultural unity represented) is an historical reality since more than 2000 years. On the other hand, Catalonia is just a drop in the ocean of history.

Myths and Lies of the Spanish nationalism. The other tittle was the first mistake.