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Thread: Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

  1. #376
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    ^^
    There are 0% possibility of civil war. Right now the Spanish policy is in full conversion as I said above. There is only one way and that is to honesty and eradication of political corruption. The ordinary citizen is outraged at the continuing corruption scandals, the rest of Spaniards live as a lesser evil show weakness Artur Mas has exercised continuously mobilize their electorate intended to blackmail the state and thus get privileges, an sad and lamentable failure and consequences that will have to explain to the judges involved, as I say in the street care about other things as may be unemployment, corruption or evictions. The regionalist policy is doomed to failure as already seen because it is not progress, a Catalonia hypothetical independent in Europe only make what he does with the state government: ask and ask, its only arguments that have tongues that are different and better!What can I say, everyone has a tongue! and be better and you have to prove they have not done, corruption in Catalonia was daunting, and now to top it was attacked democracy addition to disobey laws, the end to the ridiculous.

    On nationalism in the Basque country, well just tell her father is Sabino Arana, look out there where it mattered in nationalism and read your ridiculous comments and understand that this is the future.

    ¿Galician nationalism?

    Yes should be 4 cats, everything sticks.
    ¿Galicia and Portugal?
    Water and oil. The Galicians are very rare, you can hear two Galician arguing, first is that there appears an argument and the second is that you never know who is in dispute with whom.


    All Galicians who have met are very Spaniards have never spoken of Portugal. And do not forget that when a Spanish mentally think of Spain in his mind sees the map of the Iberian Peninsula.



    Do canaries?
    In any Spanish region could have believed volunteers and delusions of a major European nation, and those who have more reason and motive for they who are not for this work, is something retrograde.


    Are minorities independence of any region, political ideas that exploit and manipulate some of the people following guidelines usually based on lies. Reinvent history, lying on economic data and created a fictitious enemy of the people fall into that trap and rate them and gain power, but I think these parochialism are out of place and as I told you the mentality of modern Spanish is another and independence have stalled in themselves. What would they do in Europe? just as they do with the Spanish State, ask and ask, manipulate and try to take it all to the detriment of other regions in Europe and many countries and regions are also entitled to part of the investments reach them. The future lies not selfishness, moving towards a more equitable world, where man sees in man his brother and also want prosperity, sharing and walking together, if not, we will all die.

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    Change your chip, this is not a conflict between two nations or states. This is one of the greatest nations who created mankind, Spain and some smaller political bourgeois regionalist nationalist enriched by nationalist polítcia who manage their electorate as they want and it is true they have achieved many accomplishments for their regions on especially in the hambito of education but in the bad sense and to harm, such as the issue of linguistic immersion in Catalonia where we let the side to Castilian or Spanish, national and international language spoken in the world and is also the common language of all Spaniards, is a stupid achievement of regionalist nationalism in Catalonia, but sold to the electorate as a great achievement, the world upside down, sell involution. In Catalonia there are high rates of unemployment, there is no industry itself, many national and international companies have moved to Madrid since empezá this pulse of small and minority separatist class, yet still a minority in power since CIU he turned to the independence to see if getting your purposes, but it has not happened, the central government has no fear of these threats and attempts to undermine democracy.

    Think that is people have falsely created the need to vote a nationalist referendum finally have done and gone to vote their electorate and a thousand snares have remained a minority, very active because they do everything they ask for your love, obey any which are commanded to make a human chain, make a giant V, but after we have seen they are a minority, most do not even want an independence referendum because they are free.

    I assure you, health in Catalonia is fatal, nothing works, carried million and lost time on nonsense

  3. #378
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Keep in mind that the Catalan nationalism has over 30 years doing false advertising abroad. Spain is a democratic country,
    There is no such thing as a democratic country, a democratic country would allow an ethnic indigenous race within its borders to vote without interference and accept the decision of the people. If that decision is independence, then without bloodshed the nation should comply.

    Even England did wrong in interfering in the scottish referentum by making huge promises to the scottich people to stay in the Union. Now England need to make good on the promises..........just watch Wales, cornwall etc ask for their "special, same as scotland promises".

    The only country that comes close to being a democracy in this indepence scenarios was the czech - slovak split.

    Carlos, you can have you fantasy dreams that Spain is a democracy, but in reality it is not
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Well I think it is about time for me to probably dismiss myself from this thread. It seems like everything has been said; and this debate is starting to become more and more repetitive and stagnant. And it seems that some of my questions were not well reciprocated with reasonable and concrete answers. So I am becoming dissatisfied.

    Carlos, I really hate to disagree with you brother; but I am beginning to believe you are holding an agenda of your own. As Knovas, Kardu and Sile seemingly have suggested; and I believe I have to be added to the list of skeptics of you. Please don't take this personally.

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    It is funny how he keeps insisting on the idea that Catalonia is very corrupt, probably trying to tell us that this is an argument to prove independence as something bad. Like if in any other country in the world there's no corruption, not to say his beloved Spain.

    Well guys, you only have to check this map to see where the corruption is and the political parties implicated. How something like this fits Carlos agenda, I really don't know.

    Last edited by Knovas; 28-11-14 at 19:41.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    There is no such thing as a democratic country, a democratic country would allow an ethnic indigenous race within its borders to vote without interference and accept the decision of the people. If that decision is independence, then without bloodshed the nation should comply.

    Even England did wrong in interfering in the scottish referentum by making huge promises to the scottich people to stay in the Union. Now England need to make good on the promises..........just watch Wales, cornwall etc ask for their "special, same as scotland promises".

    The only country that comes close to being a democracy in this indepence scenarios was the czech - slovak split.

    Carlos, you can have you fantasy dreams that Spain is a democracy, but in reality it is not
    Spain is a democracy, we usually vote with voter registration, voting seniors and native or naturalized foreigners as Spanish Spanish certainly can not vote for illegal immigrants and every person votes once not twenty times and defend equality Spaniards says the Constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    Well I think it is about time for me to probably dismiss myself from this thread. It seems like everything has been said; and this debate is starting to become more and more repetitive and stagnant. And it seems that some of my questions were not well reciprocated with reasonable and concrete answers. So I am becoming dissatisfied.

    Carlos, I really hate to disagree with you brother; but I am beginning to believe you are holding an agenda of your own. As Knovas, Kardu and Sile seemingly have suggested; and I believe I have to be added to the list of skeptics of you. Please don't take this personally.
    I think you had a misconception of Spain and the issue of Catalonia and watched as if it were a dispute between two states at the same level of strength, and has been wrong, Catalonia is a region of Spain in debt up to their eyeballs with a minority independence as demonstrated 9N. It was a mistake that during these 30 intellectuals years of my country have not countered all the publicity that Catalan separatist nationalism has exerted on foreign media, has also been a mistake that foreign media have not proven the opinions of nationalist and more While they have given favorable treatment and truthfulness when rather have been treated with lies, manipulation and distortion of reality, anyway all this and is being corrected.


    His disappointment was with yourself.

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    State government deficit.

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    Debt Autonomous Regions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    I think you had a misconception of Spain and the issue of Catalonia and watched as if it were a dispute between two states at the same level of strength, and has been wrong, Catalonia is a region of Spain in debt up to their eyeballs with a minority independence as demonstrated 9N. It was a mistake that during these 30 intellectuals years of my country have not countered all the publicity that Catalan separatist nationalism has exerted on foreign media, has also been a mistake that foreign media have not proven the opinions of nationalist and more While they have given favorable treatment and truthfulness when rather have been treated with lies, manipulation and distortion of reality, anyway all this and is being corrected.


    His disappointment was with yourself.
    I'll tell you what supports your analysis, in your case; is that I have actually heard the same things (same opinions/viewpoints) with some people in Spain. (The tensions are not as bad as people outside of Spain are making it out to be.) But they were mostly Andalusians and a few from Madrid. So, I dunno.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    I think you had a misconception of Spain and the issue of Catalonia and watched as if it were a dispute between two states at the same level of strength, and has been wrong, Catalonia is a region of Spain in debt up to their eyeballs with a minority independence as demonstrated 9N. It was a mistake that during these 30 intellectuals years of my country have not countered all the publicity that Catalan separatist nationalism has exerted on foreign media, has also been a mistake that foreign media have not proven the opinions of nationalist and more While they have given favorable treatment and truthfulness when rather have been treated with lies, manipulation and distortion of reality, anyway all this and is being corrected.


    His disappointment was with yourself.
    these are not votes of independence about money, its about self-determination, the ability to talk catalan without issue, an ability to represent the name catalan on the world stage, an ability to govern themselves, an abitity to say I am catalonian instead of I am spanish etc etc...............money is not an issue.

    same issue with galicia and basque and many more............do a survey.........ask a galician if he wants to be called a galician or a spaniard ,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    I'll tell you what supports your analysis, in your case; is that I have actually heard the same things (same opinions/viewpoints) with some people in Spain. (The tensions are not as bad as people outside of Spain are making it out to be.) But they were mostly Andalusians and a few from Madrid. So, I dunno.
    Well then, think that so many people can not be wrong. Note that the minority separatist policy seeks a fictitious enemy, creates conflict where none exist and is the opposite of the fraternity, so it creates reactions sometimes impulsive, but in the rest of Spain now separatist minority is not an issue of concern to ordinary people, there are more serious issues in Spain. Even the Catalan Freixenet champagne brand has positioned by the union of Spain, its sales will rise as the foam. Even separatism with all the press is subsidized in their favor been a failure demonstrated 9N is reality, they are not times for discrimination between Spanish regions, or time to be the victim, it is time to work hard and Mas takes his presidency they wasting time mobilizing their electorate to blackmail the Spanish State, the result: failure, several times I had already rescue the Spanish government in Catalonia, they are not working, are all the time talking about unreal, delusions of grandeur and all that has done is make the most indebted Catalonia region in Spain, many companies have fled to Madrid, and the Catalan autonomous government speaks only of prohibitions after 9N have stayed in the single thought, just look at your navel, that is not the n philosophy
    or Spain or Europe.

    People you've found Andalusian Madrid vs must be people who likes politics in general to ordinary citizens are not afraid or worry about the independence minority, know that behind only interest in money and behind is a bourgeoisie with dandruff, travel to Andalusia and Madrid and even talk of Catalonia have to ask otherwise not even remember, relaxed living and actually do more country than in Catalonia that are always criticizing and speaking ill of other Spanish I refer to that separatist minority, not the majority of the Catalan people as demonstrated 9N.

    I think you have believed that the Catalan separatism was large and was a pulse equal in strength between the Spanish State and Catalan autonomous government, and has been wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    these are not votes of independence about money, its about self-determination, the ability to talk catalan without issue, an ability to represent the name catalan on the world stage, an ability to govern themselves, an abitity to say I am catalonian instead of I am spanish etc etc...............money is not an issue.

    same issue with galicia and basque and many more............do a survey.........ask a galician if he wants to be called a galician or a spaniard ,
    You have no idea Spain. Regional governments and self-governing, in the case of Catalonia have done and are doing fatal, is the most indebted, repeatedly rescued by the central government, region of Spain what if an autonomy are proving to be a bad managers do can make us think that being independent they would do it better?


    This is not to find out that the independence fashion is very minor and has no future,


    ¿Freely speak Catalan?


    I was offended honestly and clearly sees that knows my country. The Catalan can speak freely in Catalonia and Spain anywhere honestly do not know who would have gotten that in mind. Spain is a free, **** with whom we want.

    Totally, separatism is a machine invented to go for the money.

    And Spain has already said: ENOUGH!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    You have no idea Spain. Regional governments and self-governing, in the case of Catalonia have done and are doing fatal, is the most indebted, repeatedly rescued by the central government, region of Spain what if an autonomy are proving to be a bad managers do can make us think that being independent they would do it better?


    This is not to find out that the independence fashion is very minor and has no future,


    ¿Freely speak Catalan?


    I was offended honestly and clearly sees that knows my country. The Catalan can speak freely in Catalonia and Spain anywhere honestly do not know who would have gotten that in mind. Spain is a free, **** with whom we want.

    Totally, separatism is a machine invented to go for the money.

    And Spain has already said: ENOUGH!
    Self-determination ............an ability to rule upon themselves, to teach their children what they want and not allow another society to impose other teachings .........self-determination.

    Is it so hard to understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Self-determination ............an ability to rule upon themselves, to teach their children what they want and not allow another society to impose other teachings .........self-determination.

    Is it so hard to understand?
    You live in another world and knows Spain. Precisely Catalonia has responsibility for education and sincerely leaves much to be desired.


    ¿Self-Determination?


    Still not have you noticed the dismal failure of 9N?


    I think it is very confused and is due to the manipulated and distorted information that has come to New Zealand by the separatism.


    Look begin to open their eyes and understand the origin and Gear regionalist separatism.You have confused the doctrine or the separatist regime with the Catalan people!


    The vast majority of the Catalan people are not thinking about independence when will you have to give?


    They have cheated. Stop reading all separatist propaganda and start reading other reviews only then will realize their confusion.

    By God you live in the antipodes of Spain, thousands and thousands of miles of the known world. Do not be manipulated. In Spain the most current concern is unemployment and political corruption. The separatist minority of Catalonia only brings surrealism and dislocation from reality notice that with all means of communication subsidized and only went to vote 9N 30% including those who said no to separatism, including children, adolescents, extanjeros, illegal immigrants and people who voted dozens of times in different urns what can be 20% of the population of Catalonia wants independence?


    Please


    Are you guys about Australia? Is there much wind the wind blows often in New Zealand?

    I say this because I much affected if the wind blows me many days, really stop being me, me greatly affects me give up fear.

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    Mary, a young mother Madrid, baptizes her newborn twins, with the name of Catalonia and Spain.
    Honored this circumstance, the President Artur Mas decided to visit Mom in question, as a token of their appreciation. Upon arriving home, finds Mary breastfeeding Catalonia; But constantly reiterates its deep satisfaction and asks the mother of the twins:
    Where is Spain, this beautiful little sister gluttonous that continues to breastfeed?
    Mary replied that he is asleep for a long while ... Surprised by the response, the President is allowed to advise the mother to wake her up so he could have a chance to see it.
    Mary's response leaves the sr. But speechless ... I would not advise you wake Spain, because if Spain wakes ...
    Catalonia should stop breastfeeding

    Anyone from a popular walk to popular wisdom would say this would explain in this way to see if they finally understood the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Self-determination ............an ability to rule upon themselves, to teach their children what they want and not allow another society to impose other teachings .........self-determination.

    Is it so hard to understand?
    The editorial "La Galera" received in 2013 a grant from the Generalitat (ie, all of us) of € 17,102.32. Now we know it was to edit the "ABCs of independence", a pamphlet for children to learn letters. Or better, to learn nationalism.





    Already have years indoctrinating children in the separatist policy. I hope you realize what the separatist policy is doing with education and with young children.

    As you can see there is much freedom they even have the freedom to do things wrong.

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    This is not something teachers teach at school, so it is pointless. We Catalans have to pay Francisco Franco's foundation, something that would be forbidden in any other European country.

    As for the rest, same parrot talk over and over. Posting figures about the debt in Catalonia ignoring the huge fiscal pressure (16000 million Euros according to mainstream academics, 8000 if we trust the Spanish government LOL). Ignoring also that in normal elections more than 30% of the people never votes, and that his favorite political parties recieve less votes than independentist supporters (failure, right?), and so on. So thats what the issue is about.

    I sent a private message to one of the moderators, he's lucky that seems he didn't notice.

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    Catalan separatists at least had a normal referendum, unlike Venetian one who voted on an Internet referendum for their indipendence. LOL.

    Imagine the amount of fraud when over 90% of voters voted from their PCs at home. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post
    Catalan separatists at least had a normal referendum, unlike Venetian one who voted on an Internet referendum for their indipendence. LOL.

    Imagine the amount of fraud when over 90% of voters voted from their PCs at home. LOLOLOLOLOLOL.
    I have never heard of that one before, actually. Venetians do seem to be an ethnic group. Even a few Slovenians may be Venetian. Do I believe they should have an independent state? I do not.

    My favorite Romance language is actually Occitan; but I also have great affinity for Sardinian. I believe Sardinians should have their own state more than anyone else. Sardinia isn't really Italy to me.

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    Freixenet's president says 'Catalonia is an essential part of Spain and will remain'

    José Luis Bonet Ferrer, president of Freixenet, the largest company in sparkling wines of Catalonia, believes that this region "is an essential part of Spain, and will remain so." This was stated Bonet to 'The New York Times', although nuanced speaking in a personal capacity. Bonet, however, it has declared the newspaper that "employers have the right to worry when politicians create tensions rather than seeking dialogue".


    For Toni de la Rosa Torello, the owner of the company since the fourteenth century family, the newspaper also states that "the fact that we make the most representative of Catalonia product does not mean we do not want to be represented in the political debate".


    Statements by Bonet and de la Rosa are part of an article of 'The New York Times' in which the Catalan business fears of a possible independence of the territory are analyzed, and the financial difficulties of the Government are described.


    "The Catalan businessmen say they are less concerned about what Mas think Madrid owes [Catalonia] and more about whether political instability could damage the prospects of Spain returned to the levels of pre-crisis growth," says the newspaper, signed by Raphael Minder, who has already signed numerous information from and about Spain.

    Minder reminds that Catalonia has 16% of the Spanish population, 20% of GDP and over 25% of the regional debt. The reporter quoted the figures given by the president of the Generalitat, Artur Mas, on the alleged plundering the rest of Spain to Catalonia, but also recalls that "Catalonia has also benefited from being part of Spain. For example, were the Olympics 1992, partly funded by the Government of Madrid which helped transform Barcelona in one of the most visited cities in Europe, with 7 million tourists a year, compared to just one before [the games]. "


    The article explains the corruption scandal of the Generalitat with the Palau de la Música Catalana, where the builder Ferrovial has been accused "of paying bribes to local leaders Barcelona." 'The New York Times adds that "there is also concern about whether, despite having implemented an austerity and some unpopular cuts, [the Government] has struggled to clear their own public finances and a mountain of debt that has been doubled in the last three years to reach 52,000 million euros. "



    http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2013/1...382038119.html

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    Catalan manifestation of the unity of Spain, the vast majority has awakened.









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    Quote Originally Posted by Melancon View Post
    I have never heard of that one before, actually. Venetians do seem to be an ethnic group. Even a few Slovenians may be Venetian. Do I believe they should have an independent state? I do not.

    My favorite Romance language is actually Occitan; but I also have great affinity for Sardinian. I believe Sardinians should have their own state more than anyone else. Sardinia isn't really Italy to me.
    This whole Venetian separatism bullcrap has started in the 1980. Before then Veneto was one of the poorest region of Italy and Venetians were emigrating abroad and in other Italian regions. Personally I know countless of people between Naples and Rome with ancestors from Veneto, Friul, Istria, Dalmatia, Trentino...

    If you are able to understand Italian, read this article.

    http://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2014...moroso/928989/

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Please guys, this thread is abaout Catalonia.

    15.000 (I'm generous ok) people demostrations against 1.5 million, 1.6 million, and 1.8 million people demostrations, is like comparing apples and oranges. This is not serious.

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    The surprise jumped a few days ago among some parents of Barcelona. It is a new book offered by libraries of the Provincial Government, specifically in the children's section: "In, inde, independència!". Child labor is named after the independence cry that you hear at concentrations in favor of secession in Catalonia and in a descriptive caption explains that what counts is "the process of Catalonia towards the own state explained to children". The authors are two Catalan philologists and a cartoonist, and the preface is signed by Carme Forcadell, president of the Catalan National Assemblea and one of the leaders of the secessionist movement. "In the same way that our children have to know the problems and difficulties of everyday life, they must also meet the concerns and aspirations of independence of our people, because they are the future, the future we all want better, just and dignified. Be they who will contribute to building extraordinary new ways Catalan state, "says Forcadell in this book will be available in the children's sections of municipal libraries in the province of Barcelona.



    Not even children are spared the indoctrination

    http://www.elconfidencialautonomico....389561039.html

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