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Thread: Catalonia may become an independent nation soon...

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boreas View Post
    I am supporting Iberian federalism

    Would be nice if you did the same with Kurds.

    Back to topic I gave my support for a Catalan country already in the past. If that isn't possible at least a British Wales-England relationship should be given.

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    Catalunya is a good yardstick for Sicily. Whatever Catalunya manages to gain for itself in terms of autonomy within the context of modern Spain, Sicily should always look to match it in the context of the modern Italian state. If it currently falls short, it's only because Sicilian politicians have not had the balls to put into effect what already exists within the Statuto della Regione Siciliana.
    Misseri e sceccu cu tuttâ tistera
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    ca mancu haju Sali di salera!

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Catalonia striving to become independent is so stupid in my opinion. They host most of emigrants in percentage in whole Spain to grow economically just to rise in power.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joey D View Post
    Catalunya is a good yardstick for Sicily. Whatever Catalunya manages to gain for itself in terms of autonomy within the context of modern Spain, Sicily should always look to match it in the context of the modern Italian state. If it currently falls short, it's only because Sicilian politicians have not had the balls to put into effect what already exists within the Statuto della Regione Siciliana.
    Sicily already has special privileges , see Art.116 and Art 117 ( you need to get the rest of art.117 )
    What more are you after? ..............IIRC, even the tax they pay is minimal


    Art. 116
    Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Sardinia, Sicily, Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol and Valle
    d’Aosta/Vallée d’Aoste have special forms and conditions of autonomy
    pursuant to the special statutes adopted by constitutional law.
    The Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol Region is composed of the autonomous
    provinces of Trent and Bolzano.
    Additional special forms and conditions of autonomy, related to the areas
    specified in art. 117, paragraph three and paragraph two, letter l) - limited to
    the organisational requirements of the Justice of the Peace - and letters n) and
    s), may be attributed to other Regions by State Law, upon the initiative of the
    Region concerned, after consultation with the local authorities, in compliance
    with the principles set forth in art. 119. Said Law is approved by both Houses
    of Parliament with the absolute majority of their members, on the basis of an
    agreement between the State and the Region concerned.
    Art. 117
    Legislative powers shall be vested in the State and the Regions in compliance
    with the Constitution and with the constraints deriving from EU legislation
    and international obligations.
    The State has exclusive legislative powers in the following matters:
    a) foreign policy and international relations of the State; relations between
    the State and the European Union; right of asylum and legal status of non-
    EU citizens;
    b) immigration;
    c) relations between the Republic and religious denominations
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  5. #455
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    I like Sicilians too. We are all in the same boat. Do Sicilians really want to split from Italy? Sad!

  6. #456
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    I can't really think Italy without Sicily and Spain without Catalonia to be honest. I don't know how both of them would be standing if they both break up

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    hm

    the bad thing is that there will be no more 'El Classico'
    no match among Barcelona and Real Madrid for championship
    one of the top matches decades now every year.

    I am neutral to this Castille-Catalania 'race'
    but I would like to see again and again 'el Classico'

    I just wanted to put a humor mark to this.


    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  8. #458
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    no kidding with this one, if people begins permanent strike cutting highways trains ports and airports to collapse the government economy, even in the case that the Barcelona team wouldn't support the strike by sure it would be difficult to see any "clasico"
    "What I've seen so far after my entire career chasing Indoeuropeans is that our solutions look tissue thin and our problems still look monumental" J.P.Mallory

    "The ultimate homeland of the group [PIE] that also spread Anatolian languages is less clear." D. Reich

  9. #459
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    Makes me laugh that the EU has not called madrid to account as being anti-democratic

    EU is weak and has failed under the reign of the germans and french

  10. #460
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    EU is not the peoples union but state economies union, no surprise, it's a big dinosaur with cute words in its mouth but no more.
    The worst is that the final message given to any national reivindication is that unicaly with war or terrorism could be achieved the objectives, because democracy only is respected (somewhat) in Anglosaxon countries.

  11. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Makes me laugh that the EU has not called madrid to account as being anti-democratic

    EU is weak and has failed under the reign of the germans and french
    Either one Spain, either two Spain, still inside EU

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by berun View Post
    no kidding with this one, if people begins permanent strike cutting highways trains ports and airports to collapse the government economy, even in the case that the Barcelona team wouldn't support the strike by sure it would be difficult to see any "clasico"
    Do you really believe Catalan teams would be thrown out of La Liga by case of segregation. I mean La Liga (the State) makes around half a billion just from the El Classico. La Liga without Barcelona would lose 30-40% of it's viewers and sponsors. It would hurt both sides and I am pretty sure they will find a solution.

  13. #463
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    There were further "advisements" from Spanish responsables that independence would set Barcelona outside Liga

    http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barc...e-liga-4524757

    but many think that this was part of the "no-campaign" sponsored by the state that independent Catalonia would be out of Liga, out of EU (no clear and official answer from EU being so complices), without banks, and set in a kind of diplomatic limbo.

    Personaly I don't care about that, I know many would have a pragmatic view but it's also true that after independence the Spanish government would work at 100% against Catalan economy instead to the 50%.

  14. #464
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    Theo Francken, our minister for immigration :

    'if this kind of violence from the government were to happen in Poland or Hungary, there would be outrage from Juncker & the like'

    The EU ministers clearly don't know how to handle this. They don't want to discuss what is happening. If they could, they'd ignore it all.

  15. #465
    Regular Member berun's Avatar
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    Now some 750 voters blessed, a child will be paralithic forever. Juncker and co. must choose now if they want to accept fascism inside UE (that there are lower peoples like Slavs or Jews for nazis).

    Near mi town 30 or more Spanish policemen charged against voters of Aiguaviva hamlet, some 100 people total.

  16. #466
    Regular Member berun's Avatar
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    just one example among many others

    https://www.vilaweb.cat/noticies/vid...s-a-aiguaviva/

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    Catalan referendum: Riot police 'fire rubber bullets' at crowd as they block voters at besieged polling stations - latest news

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/01/catalan-referendum-spanish-riot-police-force-way-polling-station/

    Spanish government is doing a big disservice for Spanish cause. Now Catalans are sure they are making the right decision to go independent way.

    I think every ethnicity or a distinct group should be able to achieve independence if majority wants it.
    I'm not saying they will be better off, but it should be guaranteed freedom of choice.

    In this case, what is the harm for anyone, except bruised ego and national pride? Catalans will go independent, then join EU, so again Spain and Catalonia can enjoy free people and work movement. Almost like nothing happened!
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

  18. #468
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    the irrational behaviour of the Spanish government seems to be the consequence of personal calculations of some leading politicians who don't want to solve a problme, but want to divert the attention from other serious internal problems
    that is how politics works
    only this time I think they miscalculated

  19. #469
    Regular Member berun's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/vane_gayoso/stat...34862328795137

    Almost like nothing happened!
    do you would like to be administered and ruled by people like these?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    Do you really believe Catalan teams would be thrown out of La Liga by case of segregation. I mean La Liga (the State) makes around half a billion just from the El Classico. La Liga without Barcelona would lose 30-40% of it's viewers and sponsors. It would hurt both sides and I am pretty sure they will find a solution.
    yup maybe Barcelona will play in Premier league,
    not that England is in Brexit way.



    Alan I thought you are a Kurd,
    but you seem to think, as a clear German economist,
    determing economical facts above all.
    Last edited by Yetos; 02-10-17 at 02:55.

  21. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    yup maybe Barcelona will play in Premier league,
    not that England is in Brexit way.



    Alan I thought you are a Kurd,
    you seem to think, but you seem to think, as a clear German economist,
    determing economical facts above all.
    It seems you didn't get my post. The central government uses the Barcelona case to bring up fear in some voters. All I say is they would never force Barcelona out of the league, if they did so they would lose allot of money.

    Also I already stated 2-3 times in this thread that I am for a free Catalonia.

    If the central government doesn't fear the votes and is convinced it is all just few seperatists, than they should/would allow the votum. This kind of unreasonable behaviour will make even the few doubters sure that independence is the right choice.

    A reasonable act would be to give the Catalans for example a choice. Like giving them Schottland like status in something like "great Iberia". This would still connect Catalonia to Spain but the Catalans would be far more independent in many aspects. But if they force the people, it will only strengthen the opposition.

    We asked from Iraq for an alternative to full independence. But they gave us back a f.. all. So we give it back.

  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    It seems you didn't get my post. The central government uses the Barcelona case to bring up fear in some voters. All I say is they would never force Barcelona out of the league, if they did so they would lose allot of money.

    Also I already stated 2-3 times in this thread that I am for a free Catalonia.

    If the central government doesn't fear the votes and is convinced it is all just few seperatists, than they should/would allow the votum. This kind of unreasonable behaviour will make even the few doubters sure that independence is the right choice.

    A reasonable act would be to give the Catalans for example a choice. Like giving them Schottland like status in something like "great Iberia". This would still connect Catalonia to Spain but the Catalans would be far more independent in many aspects. But if they force the people, it will only strengthen the opposition.

    We asked from Iraq for an alternative to full independence. But they gave us back a f.. all. So we give it back.
    I know the case of Iraq,
    and Bashrani (If I spell correct) said that he will not use the referendum to claim inderedence,
    but as a tool for negotiations,
    Erdogan is buing guns from all over world, just in case he will face that.

    but I do not believe that if Catalania becomes indepentent,
    Barcelona will stay with rest Spanish teams,
    a new leaga maybe.


    my position is just neutral.

  23. #473
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Catalans have voted overwhelmingly for independence yesterday. 90% were in favour, about twice higher than opinion polls predicted. The Catalan government said that the referendum was binding and declared independence this morning. The Spanish government won't accept it, so it will be up to other countries, and particularly EU countries to recognise Catalonia as a sovereign state. The British government might object, fearing to boost pro-independence sentiment in Scotland, but they have nothing left to say in EU matters, so their opinion won't matter.

    I started this thread 11 years ago. It took time, but now it seems that it would be pointless for anyone to oppose the Catalan independence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I know the case of Iraq,
    and Bashrani (If I spell correct) said that he will not use the referendum to claim inderedence,
    but as a tool for negotiations,
    Erdogan is buing guns from all over world, just in case he will face that.

    but I do not believe that if Catalania becomes indepentent,
    Barcelona will stay with rest Spanish teams,
    a new leaga maybe.


    my position is just neutral.
    Hia name is spelled Barzani not Bashrani. Turkey, Iran, Iraq, threatned to attack if they do the referendum he gone the way. Do you think he risked this all just for negotiations? He gives the Iraqi central government a chance to give an alternative (as I said a Schottland type model) but he knows those chauvinistic Iraqis will have hard time accepting this.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The Catalans have voted overwhelmingly for independence yesterday. 90% were in favour, about twice higher than opinion polls predicted. The Catalan government said that the referendum was binding and declared independence this morning. The Spanish government won't accept it, so it will be up to other countries, and particularly EU countries to recognise Catalonia as a sovereign state. The British government might object, fearing to boost pro-independence sentiment in Scotland, but they have nothing left to say in EU matters, so their opinion won't matter.

    I started this thread 11 years ago. It took time, but now it seems that it would be pointless for anyone to oppose the Catalan independence.
    If EU wants to be competitive with economic giants in the world, it should became more integrated. One of key questions how much separatism and quest for independence of a region within a country can contribute to strengthening integration in the EU. I'm afraid it is inversely, and wasting time and energy, instead of focusing on what is necessarily for EU to be more powerful and more competitive.

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