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Thread: Spain's Blood Sport Culture of Bullfighting

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Sierra de Grazalema (Cadiz Andalucia) the closest source I know of my mitochondrial DNA.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Sierra de Grazalema (Cadiz Andalucia) the closest source I know of my mitochondrial DNA.

    Carlos, that was really beautiful. I love these time lapse videos. It was a treat to watch it as I drank my morning coffee.

    As for bullfighting, I wouldn't take the overwrought reactions of some foreigners so seriously. They should focus on the treatment of animals in their own culture. No one forces them to go and watch it.

    As for me, I once spent four days in Pamplona during the festival of San Fermin. (It was partly an homage to Hemingway, and partly because we were told it was a big party! ) I went to the running of the bulls and then to the bullfight every day. I would never be an aficionado, but I didn't find it totally horrifying either, not like cock fights or, God forbid, dog fights. Here, it's the man against the beast, and all he has is his cape and a sword. Yes, I saw the picadors, but still, the contest seemed pretty fair to me. I was told, I don't know how true it is, that the bulls are especially bred for ferocity and aggression. Certainly, if the matadors didn't get in very close and personal, the booing was deafening.

    My strongest memory is of an old country man sitting beside me sharing chorizo and some wine from his wineskin with me. That, and the fact that when some hapless tourist who decided to run with the bulls changed his mind and tried to climb the barricades, my new friend pried his hands loose and tossed him back in...they take it very seriously.

    People in some western societies are far too removed from the world of the farmyard in my opinion, and are unduly sentimental about some animals. These are the kind of people who make little moues of disapproval when I order rabbit in a local Portuguese restaurant. I, in fact, arrange to go there specifically on the days when they offer it. These people should have been around when my grandmother whacked them on the head, or when she wrung the necks of the chickens. Now that bothered me when I was little, and like my mother before me, I always managed and still manage to have urgent business elsewhere when the hogs are going to be butchered. Hypocritical on the part of someone who so loves cured pork products and sausage, but there it is.
    Last edited by Angela; 11-05-14 at 16:34.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Glad that you liked the video Grazalema Natural Park.


    Is in vogue to speak of animal rights is absurd, if animals have rights how do fulfill their obligations? lost there too anthropomorphic. Another thing is to ensure the welfare of animals, and it would be wonderful not to have to kill animals to eat, it's cruel, but the world in which we live is full of injustice or unpleasant but laudable for our way of life situations. Particularly in the case of Spanish bulls are with the paradox that the mother almost to the year is given, and live in a state of semi-freedom for 5 years Any sign Friesian bull! Many bulls in bullfights are pardoned and die of old age in a state of semi-freedom and those who die in the square die with more dignity than in a slaughterhouse, and also have the possibility of killing, it is strange but true.

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    Andalusian horse the moore beauty of the world.

    Intérprete: Isabel Pantoja.

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    Opinions of foreign tourists who have seen a bullfight for the first time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    Opinions of foreign tourists who have seen a bullfight for the first time.

    l
    Meanwhile, in some of the countries from which these people come they torture people far worse than this, yet here a bull getting killed bothers them. If they're not vegetarians, do you know how many cattle were killed per year to feed them?

    Plus, you have to be criminally stupid to not know that a bullfight is a "FIGHT" between a man and a bull. The only part that I think is unfair is the picadors. If the man wants to engage in this primordial, almost religious right, then don't weaken the bull.

    Do some freaking research people, use your damn phone and google bullfight, and if you don't think you'll like it, don't go.

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    ^^
    Apparently the luck of itching is not to weaken the bull is rather a genetic test. In that act it will be seen if the bull has the caste that is presumed and a good specimen has to show to the being bitten that it is of caste, bravo and that enviste to those heights of the bullfight. It must be a crucial moment where you will see the work of selecting the livestock to which the horse belongs.

    http://www.opinionytoros.com/opinionytoros.php?Id=2638


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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I am totally against bullfights but then I am against zoos or having exotic animals as pets. Am not against eating animals I just don't want them tortured or locked up in zoos.

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    Long live the corrida! I deeply admire toreros. And I find it a shame that those old traditions should be questioned by city people who have never seen a cow up close, let alone touched one. Those urban activists are the theoreticians of a fantasized form of ecology. Worse, most of them are fanatics and extremists in their own way. And utterly ignorant of the realities of country life.

    They are the same kind of people who unconditionally condemn hunting, unaware of the devastation that uncontrolled animal populations can wreak on the environment, in a world where natural predators have disappeared. In some mountainous areas of southern France, hunters shoot wild hogs dead... and leave them there, because there are so many of them that no-one knows what to do with the meat any more. Local fridges are all full up, so are the fridges of friends, and of friends of friends. Urban people do not realize that the alternative to this form of regulation is the large-scale poisoning of the supernumerary animals by state-employed wardens.

    In less densely populated areas, wild hogs multiply exponentially. They tear up the soil of cultivated fields to such extent that no crop is left. The farmers lose their revenue, and have to be compensated on public money. In my own forests, the roe-deer peel off the bark of hundreds of seedlings I just planted, seedlings which are in fact the future of those very forests where city-people so much enjoy strolling at the week-end.

    I grew up on a farm. I had to kill not only rabbits or chickens, but also sick old horses, dogs, or cows, in days when there was no public service to take them to the slaughterhouse. I had to dig holes and bury the corpses. I had to quarter homegrown pigs after they had been bled. I had to stick my arm full length into the bellies of cows to turn calves the right way at delivery time when they were the wrong way up in their mothers' wombs. It's all part and parcel of the "country package". How could soft-hearted urbanites be aware of such things? They were not raised to "stomach" them. But still, they feel entitled to meddle, judge, moralize, stigmatize, condemn, and decide in the place of people who get their hands dirty trying to keep their world in order.

    I keep hounds. I hunt the roe-deer and the wild hog. I'll hunt the activists if I have to, to teach them to live and let live, and to live and let die. Long live the corrida!
    It is therefore worth while to search out the bounds between opinion and knowledge; and examine by what measures, in things whereof we have no certain knowledge, we ought to regulate our assent and moderate our persuasion. (John Locke)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I am totally against bullfights but then I am against zoos or having exotic animals as pets. Am not against eating animals I just don't want them tortured or locked up in zoos.
    Same here. I abhor corrida. To me there's a difference between killing an animal to eat it (out of necessity) and killing for "sport", fun or to honor some "tradition". Not my thing.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    The same is happening in Spain with urban activists who do not know the countryside or life in rural areas and intend to decide. The other day someone in Spain published an article whose title was something like: We live in a time when dogs are adopted and parents are abandoned.

    Rural areas have already begun to manifest themselves to protect their way of life, where hunting comes in the face of the threat of urban activists who do not know the environment or live in reality, a scourge that must be protected before it becomes too much. late.




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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by hrvclv View Post
    Long live the corrida! I deeply admire toreros. And I find it a shame that those old traditions should be questioned by city people who have never seen a cow up close, let alone touched one. Those urban activists are the theoreticians of a fantasized form of ecology. Worse, most of them are fanatics and extremists in their own way. And utterly ignorant of the realities of country life.

    They are the same kind of people who unconditionally condemn hunting, unaware of the devastation that uncontrolled animal populations can wreak on the environment, in a world where natural predators have disappeared. In some mountainous areas of southern France, hunters shoot wild hogs dead... and leave them there, because there are so many of them that no-one knows what to do with the meat any more. Local fridges are all full up, so are the fridges of friends, and of friends of friends. Urban people do not realize that the alternative to this form of regulation is the large-scale poisoning of the supernumerary animals by state-employed wardens.

    In less densely populated areas, wild hogs multiply exponentially. They tear up the soil of cultivated fields to such extent that no crop is left. The farmers lose their revenue, and have to be compensated on public money. In my own forests, the roe-deer peel off the bark of hundreds of seedlings I just planted, seedlings which are in fact the future of those very forests where city-people so much enjoy strolling at the week-end.

    I grew up on a farm. I had to kill not only rabbits or chickens, but also sick old horses, dogs, or cows, in days when there was no public service to take them to the slaughterhouse. I had to dig holes and bury the corpses. I had to quarter homegrown pigs after they had been bled. I had to stick my arm full length into the bellies of cows to turn calves the right way at delivery time when they were the wrong way up in their mothers' wombs. It's all part and parcel of the "country package". How could soft-hearted urbanites be aware of such things? They were not raised to "stomach" them. But still, they feel entitled to meddle, judge, moralize, stigmatize, condemn, and decide in the place of people who get their hands dirty trying to keep their world in order.

    I keep hounds. I hunt the roe-deer and the wild hog. I'll hunt the activists if I have to, to teach them to live and let live, and to live and let die. Long live the corrida!
    Well, I'm not an aficionado of the corrida, but it's not my country or my business, and as I said upthread I don't think what the bull goes through is any more torturous than conditions in most slaughter houses. At least he's raised humanely, dies in the open air, and is fighting back. In addition, a good torrero is a wonder to be hold. It's a magnificent spectacle and a spiritual rite in a sense.

    Fwiw, the meat of the bulls who die in the arena is given to the poor.

    I mean, where is this going to end? No more horse racing? Dog racing?

    As for the rest of your post I completely agree. Most of these PETA people have no clue what real "conservation" and keeping the biosphere healthy means. Even with deer, they have to be culled or they'll starve to death when the population gets too large. If they were depending on their chicken coops for their protein, and their crops for most of the rest of their life-giving nutrition, I'm sure they'd change their minds about keeping down the population of foxes and wild boar.

    Long live pappardelle with wild boar sauce. :)



    Be careful hunting them: make sure you have the right gun and are a good shot, because they're deadly fast and vicious.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Hunting deer to cull the deer population since we have killed all the wolves that did that for us is one thing. Corrida is another. Slaughterhouses in the US kill cows/bulls humanely. Feedlots on the other hand are the devil's work.

    BTW I was raised on a farm until I was 12 and then in the summers until 19yo. I have shoveled enough cow poop to last me a lifetime. I have killed chicken and rabbits for food and I have castrated hogs. Let's just say that the castration was the most barbaric thing that I have ever done/witnessed. They would holler for days. I just wish it was done more humanely.

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    I think the bulls should be given better odds, maybe chain the Matador to a canon ball, or a 'bullring' in the centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul333 View Post
    I think the bulls should be given better odds, maybe chain the Matador to a canon ball, or a 'bullring' in the centre.
    Chaining the bullfighter would be torture and the bullfighting has nothing to do with torture. Anyway, the bull has two good defense reasons.


    Weight average value 300kg ♀ - 500 kg ♂


    You have to be very brave to get in front of that, I would not do it.


    The fighting bull, also called brave bull, designates the male specimens of a heterogeneous bovine population1 developed, selected, and bred for use in different bullfighting shows, such as bullfights or bullies. They come from the autochthonous races of the Iberian peninsula, known as «Iberian trunk», which from time immemorial propitiated the most primitive forms of bullfighting. It is characterized by atavistic instincts of defense and temperamental, which are synthesized in the so-called "bravery", as well as physical attributes such as large forward horns and a powerful locomotor apparatus.

    Casta Navarre: The Navarrese bulls, today nonexistent as such, were sierra bulls, small in size, with a bronco and chaste marked temperament that made up for their lack of showiness with aggressiveness and bravery.


    Casta jijona: Recognizable for its many red hair specimens. Still today the animals of this coat are called jijones bulls.


    Castilian or morucha-castellana caste: Big and hard bulls to fight.


    Andalusian breed: According to José María de Cossío, it should occupy the first place in consideration for having been the one that has achieved the prototype and epitome of the fighting bull or fighting bull.


    Casta cabrera: Large, long and agalgado body, with very developed defenses, from which come, among others, the specimens of Miura.


    Casta vazqueña: Founded around 1780 by Don Gregorio Vázquez, gathering the best examples of Castilian and Andalusian herds. Acquired by King Fernando VII and, later, by the Duke of Veragua.

    Casta vistahermosa: Founded by the Count of Vistahermosa in 1772, the breed from which most of the cattle that are currently struggling come from.


    Casta Atanasio-Fernández: Bulls with large head, wide and with the antlers directed upwards, have a broad chest, a long and thick tail. Currently there are very few copies, it can be considered that it is in danger of disappearing.


    Zoo interest

    Unlike most breeds of domestic livestock, fighting bulls present a series of physical and temperamental characteristics more typical of a wild bovid, also highlighting the genetic information provided by its Y chromosome, which makes this breed unique. This should not be strange if one takes into account that when developing these breeds the breeders never intended to promote things such as increased production of meat and milk or a meekness and absence of stressed horns to make animals more manageable to human treatment , but simply sought to preserve (and even slightly enhance) a behavior somewhat more violent than normal that would make the animal more prone to the attack and therefore the bullfighting show. Certain authors such as the Dutchman Cis van Vuure have pointed out several coincidences in the body structure and common coloration of the fighting bull with those possessed by the now extinct European wild bull or uro, from which it differs for little more than its smaller size and length of horns During his life in semi-freedom in the dehesas, the fighting bull also maintains similar customs to those of a wild animal, forming herds, defending himself from possible dangers and performing an incalculable task in the middle.


    More information here. For Spanish themes, wikipedia or Hispanic press. You will never go to bed without knowing something else.

    https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toro_de_lidia

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    1 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Torture is neither sport not culture. Mostly of spaniards hate the Tauromaquia, and me is one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziober View Post
    Torture is neither sport not culture. Mostly of spaniards hate the Tauromaquia, and me is one of them.
    I want them to continue killing bulls in the squares and that the bullfighter never dies although I have never attended a bullfight nor do I intend to do it, yes I have seen it by t.v. But I support bullfighting live the bullfights and the final outcome.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Hunting deer to cull the deer population since we have killed all the wolves that did that for us is one thing. Corrida is another. Slaughterhouses in the US kill cows/bulls humanely. Feedlots on the other hand are the devil's work.

    BTW I was raised on a farm until I was 12 and then in the summers until 19yo. I have shoveled enough cow poop to last me a lifetime. I have killed chicken and rabbits for food and I have castrated hogs. Let's just say that the castration was the most barbaric thing that I have ever done/witnessed. They would holler for days. I just wish it was done more humanely.
    It never bothered me when my bisnonna wrung the neck of the chickens or bopped the rabbits over the head, but I always found something to do far on the other side of the property if I was there when they butchered the hogs. It's about the sound they make and all the blood. I didn't want to be around when they butchered the cows either, but it was almost always just a few calves for veal, and, of course, lamb.

    I'm a hypocrite, though, as it doesn't stop me from loving (and eating) sausage and cured pork products, and all the other meats as well, for that matter.

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Ill play the devils advocate here:
    First you should all look in a mirror and see the reflection of hypocrisy, all of you who have pets and eat meat.
    Cows and bulls are butchered everywhere in the world, just for fun and enjoyment. Eating meat is not a necessity, so when you do it, its for your pleasure. Even if they are not butchered, they are kept as dairy producers, and that´s not much better.
    Secondly. The bull might be happy, or die in a happy way. Bulls are meant to fight predators or their own kind for reproduction. They are meant to fight and die, or survive. It might be more true to the bulls nature to fight and die, full of hormones and aggression than to be put down with a gun in a slaughterhouse.
    However... a point is... that humans are full of projections of their emotions onto animals: "Doggy loves mama", when its really only slavishly begging for food. When discussing bullfights there is no end to the positive and negative projections people make. The most interesting about bullfighting is that it goes far back into the hunterers stoneage, and such we can see that our memes from back then are still alive in the form of bullfighting. What other memes are there, that are so integrated that we cannot even see them? Thats interesting.

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    I simply get sickening of bloody bull fightening ('too much' empathy.....). So I can't see the entertainment of it....others obviously do.
    Of course you can see this as hypocrisy because I buy the meat in clean cellophane at the supermarket nice butchered, not recognizable as animal anymore. The reality of the slaughter house is far away. My grandfather did the filleting of the rabbits and chicken by himself and in november the pig was slaughtered (by a traveling butcher). In that sense it was more 'honest'.
    But for me there is a difference with torturing animals for fun/entertainment.

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    The response of a recognized expert: Is bullfighting torture or animal abuse?

    Basically, anti-bullfighting currents base their arguments on bullfighting as torture and animal abuse.

    But bullfighting itself is a physical activity, both man and bovine, taking advantage of the innate aggressiveness of it. It is, therefore, an activity similar to the one that can be done riding on horseback, sledding with dogs or making work animals draft (horses, oxen ...). There is no torture or mistreatment in these activities, just as we can not consider mistreating a woman by fighting or running her.

    The problem arises when, during the fight, utensils are used tending to physically injure the animal in order to stimulate it or to lose strength and power to subdue it. It should not scandalize us to speak of subjection, since all domestic animals -and the brave bull is- are subject to the will or interest of man: we educate the dog or the cat, we tame the horse, we milk the cows or sheep ...

    Sitting on this foundation that bullfighting without hurting the animal is not torture or abuse, we could ask ourselves: is torture or abuse bullfighting when the animal is injured?

    It is necessary to clarify here that the bovine res, during the fight, is not injured for pleasure or indiscriminately. There are two situations in which the fighting animals are wounded: in the tentadero and in the bullfight. In the tentadero de eralas (two-year-old calves) they are made to enter the horse by repeatedly stinging them with a small puja that only *****s its skin without reaching deeper tissues, so that they hardly bleed. It is a complex evaluation of his behavior in the horse to be able to assess his bravery and only done once in his life. The tentadero is the base of the genetic selection of the fighting bulls.

    The fighting race is one of the few that man has selected based on its behavioral and non-aesthetic or productive characteristics. Precisely, behavior is one of the most difficult aspects to fix in genetic selection. We can assure, without fear of being wrong, that this breed is a genetic prodigy achieved by the Spanish breeders for hundreds of years for a specific purpose: to create a fierce animal but capable of attacking with nobility to achieve a very particular aesthetic, which may be liked or not, but that is unique.

    The other situation in which the fighting animals are wounded is in the bullfight (basically bulls and bullfighters), being three phases of the fight in which utensils are used to break the bull. The first is the luck or third of a stick, where the puya is used, the second is the luck of banderillas and the third is the supreme luck, where the rapier is used to kill the bull.


    Technically it is necessary to hurt the bull with the puja to break it and save his attack, and of course it is not done to hurt the bull for the pleasure of seeing him suffer as some argue. The dictionary of the Spanish Royal Academy of Language (RAE) defines the word break as "Diminish forces or brio; soften or temper the excess of something ". In this case, the bull is taken to the horse so that it softens its onslaught and can be bullied with more mettle, which gives bullfighting more artistic beauty. A bull without itching is usually much more rough in the onslaught, nods more and has the highest face, making the fight difficult. However, this luck is closely monitored and legislated, checking the authority the dimensions of the puja, the weight of the horses, the number of rods that a bull undergoes, etc.

    Is bullfight torture?


    We must use the dictionary of the SAR again to find the definition of torture; in it, it is defined as the "serious physical or psychological pain inflicted on someone, with different methods and utensils, in order to obtain from him a confession, or as a means of punishment." As we see, use the indefinite pronoun someone, which refers to people; however, we could also apply it to animals. But we deduce that the fight is not torture, since it is not about causing pain to punish the animal for something bad that has been done. On the contrary, when the animal is wounded during its fight, it is for the purpose of genetic selection and therefore zootechnical, or it is to achieve the attack of a powerful animal and thus be able to express an art appreciated by many people and personalities of the arts, letters and sciences through the ages. Other people, on the other hand, do not see art here. It's a matter of sensitivities.

    For its part, the Organic Law 10/1995, of November 23, of the Criminal Code, in its articles 173 and following that deal with "torture and other crimes against moral integrity" does not contemplate animals as an object of torture.


    The bull is wounded during the fight, but not to cause pain, but for reasons that have a specific purpose and subject to strict legal regulations. For these reasons we believe that bullfighting can not be considered torture.

    Is bullfighting animal abuse?


    We turn again to the dictionary of the RAE, where the word abuse appears defined as "Treat someone wrongly word or deed". Again use the pronoun someone, but apply it to the animals.


    Do we really treat the fighting cattle badly? Definitely not, rather the opposite. The breeding of fighting cattle is one of the most natural that takes place in domestic species, usually in places of great environmental value. Ethology, food, genetics, health and all natural management are meticulously respected.


    For example, in an exploitation of milk cows, they are inseminated artificially in the heat and milked until about two months before the birth; the terneritos usually separate of the mother as soon as they are born and are reared with adequate milk powder. After three to six months (depending on the type of weaning), go to the transitional pens and bait until they reach the sales weight with about 14 months. During all this time, mother and calf are treated with all care and care, complying with all the rules of animal welfare and health.


    The same happens with fighting cattle, only that the cows are separated with a stallion during the breeding period and the calves are naturally weaned from their mothers at 7 or 8 months of age. Then they go to the closed with animals of the same sex and age. The females are tempted with about two years and if they do not show nobility and bravery they are fattened and humanely sacrificed in a slaughterhouse; otherwise they are left as nurse cows until they die of old age. Meanwhile, the males are separated in runs with about 3 years of age (utreros) and are usually bullied with 4 or 5 years (bulls). We think it is interesting to note that only about 10 percent of livestock die in the plaza; the rest either die in the field in a natural way or are slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.


    The breeding and handling of the fighting bull, from birth until it comes out through the chiqueros of the plaza, can be considered as the paradigm of animal welfare.


    But it is that in a confinement or a cape where animals run freely in a circuit roaming for their respects and giving free rein to their instincts and where they are not hurt at all, there is no abuse.


    In addition, during the transfer, the trucks and the conditions of the trip and accommodation must comply with the strict European rules of animal welfare, being checked and supervised by the authorized veterinary services and by the governmental and police authority. Everything is absolutely legislated in terms of welfare and animal health until the death of the bull.


    The slaughter or sacrifice of animals should not scandalize us. Homo sapiens, as a species, has every right in the world to kill other species for their interest, as do the cat, the lion, the lynx or the eagle. We, instead of killing, use the euphemism sacrifice, because it is done in the most humane way possible. The slaughter of animals is enormously regulated in all civilized countries, complying with all the standards that guarantee a dignified death.


    Bearing all this in mind, we could consider abuse not the fight or bullfighting itself, but when the animal is injured during the fight, being especially unpleasant for some people when the bull dies in the square. But is that the other option is to die humanitarianly pointed.


    Here I allow myself a subjective license ... is it a dignified death for a brave bull to die pointed in a slaughterhouse? Precisely we believe that death in the square is what most deserves (the most dignified) an animal that has been highly selected and raised expressly to fight and defend his life in a bullring before a bullfighter, thus creating a deep feeling ( for many, artistic, although for others it is not). The death of an imposing brave bull pointed in a corral or in a slaughterhouse that we find a death unworthy for him, since we cut his reason for being. Other people, on the other hand, find the death of the bull in the plaza abhorrent. As we have already mentioned, it is a matter of sensitivities.


    As it is a matter of sensitivities the abortion or 'sacrifice' of human embryos; or the euthanasia or 'sacrifice' of terminal people. To some people their sensitivity leads them to take a position and to others it leads to the opposite.


    Says Francis Wolff (1), Professor of Philosophy at the University of Paris: "There is only one argument against bullfighting and it is not really an argument. It is called sensitivity ... Sensitivity is not an argument and yet it is the strongest reason that can be opposed against bullfighting ... but can the sensitivity of some be enough to condemn the sensitivity of others? ".

    Francis Wolff. 2010. 50 reasons to defend the bullfight. Ed .: Campo Bravo SL. Madrid. pp 9-10.

    https://www.taurologia.com/respuesta...tura--4492.htm

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post
    The response of a recognized expert: Is bullfighting torture or animal abuse?

    Basically, anti-bullfighting currents base their arguments on bullfighting as torture and animal abuse.

    But bullfighting itself is a physical activity, both man and bovine, taking advantage of the innate aggressiveness of it. It is, therefore, an activity similar to the one that can be done riding on horseback, sledding with dogs or making work animals draft (horses, oxen ...). There is no torture or mistreatment in these activities, just as we can not consider mistreating a woman by fighting or running her.

    The problem arises when, during the fight, utensils are used tending to physically injure the animal in order to stimulate it or to lose strength and power to subdue it. It should not scandalize us to speak of subjection, since all domestic animals -and the brave bull is- are subject to the will or interest of man: we educate the dog or the cat, we tame the horse, we milk the cows or sheep ...

    Sitting on this foundation that bullfighting without hurting the animal is not torture or abuse, we could ask ourselves: is torture or abuse bullfighting when the animal is injured?

    It is necessary to clarify here that the bovine res, during the fight, is not injured for pleasure or indiscriminately. There are two situations in which the fighting animals are wounded: in the tentadero and in the bullfight. In the tentadero de eralas (two-year-old calves) they are made to enter the horse by repeatedly stinging them with a small puja that only *****s its skin without reaching deeper tissues, so that they hardly bleed. It is a complex evaluation of his behavior in the horse to be able to assess his bravery and only done once in his life. The tentadero is the base of the genetic selection of the fighting bulls.

    The fighting race is one of the few that man has selected based on its behavioral and non-aesthetic or productive characteristics. Precisely, behavior is one of the most difficult aspects to fix in genetic selection. We can assure, without fear of being wrong, that this breed is a genetic prodigy achieved by the Spanish breeders for hundreds of years for a specific purpose: to create a fierce animal but capable of attacking with nobility to achieve a very particular aesthetic, which may be liked or not, but that is unique.

    The other situation in which the fighting animals are wounded is in the bullfight (basically bulls and bullfighters), being three phases of the fight in which utensils are used to break the bull. The first is the luck or third of a stick, where the puya is used, the second is the luck of banderillas and the third is the supreme luck, where the rapier is used to kill the bull.


    Technically it is necessary to hurt the bull with the puja to break it and save his attack, and of course it is not done to hurt the bull for the pleasure of seeing him suffer as some argue. The dictionary of the Spanish Royal Academy of Language (RAE) defines the word break as "Diminish forces or brio; soften or temper the excess of something ". In this case, the bull is taken to the horse so that it softens its onslaught and can be bullied with more mettle, which gives bullfighting more artistic beauty. A bull without itching is usually much more rough in the onslaught, nods more and has the highest face, making the fight difficult. However, this luck is closely monitored and legislated, checking the authority the dimensions of the puja, the weight of the horses, the number of rods that a bull undergoes, etc.

    Is bullfight torture?


    We must use the dictionary of the SAR again to find the definition of torture; in it, it is defined as the "serious physical or psychological pain inflicted on someone, with different methods and utensils, in order to obtain from him a confession, or as a means of punishment." As we see, use the indefinite pronoun someone, which refers to people; however, we could also apply it to animals. But we deduce that the fight is not torture, since it is not about causing pain to punish the animal for something bad that has been done. On the contrary, when the animal is wounded during its fight, it is for the purpose of genetic selection and therefore zootechnical, or it is to achieve the attack of a powerful animal and thus be able to express an art appreciated by many people and personalities of the arts, letters and sciences through the ages. Other people, on the other hand, do not see art here. It's a matter of sensitivities.

    For its part, the Organic Law 10/1995, of November 23, of the Criminal Code, in its articles 173 and following that deal with "torture and other crimes against moral integrity" does not contemplate animals as an object of torture.


    The bull is wounded during the fight, but not to cause pain, but for reasons that have a specific purpose and subject to strict legal regulations. For these reasons we believe that bullfighting can not be considered torture.

    Is bullfighting animal abuse?


    We turn again to the dictionary of the RAE, where the word abuse appears defined as "Treat someone wrongly word or deed". Again use the pronoun someone, but apply it to the animals.


    Do we really treat the fighting cattle badly? Definitely not, rather the opposite. The breeding of fighting cattle is one of the most natural that takes place in domestic species, usually in places of great environmental value. Ethology, food, genetics, health and all natural management are meticulously respected.


    For example, in an exploitation of milk cows, they are inseminated artificially in the heat and milked until about two months before the birth; the terneritos usually separate of the mother as soon as they are born and are reared with adequate milk powder. After three to six months (depending on the type of weaning), go to the transitional pens and bait until they reach the sales weight with about 14 months. During all this time, mother and calf are treated with all care and care, complying with all the rules of animal welfare and health.


    The same happens with fighting cattle, only that the cows are separated with a stallion during the breeding period and the calves are naturally weaned from their mothers at 7 or 8 months of age. Then they go to the closed with animals of the same sex and age. The females are tempted with about two years and if they do not show nobility and bravery they are fattened and humanely sacrificed in a slaughterhouse; otherwise they are left as nurse cows until they die of old age. Meanwhile, the males are separated in runs with about 3 years of age (utreros) and are usually bullied with 4 or 5 years (bulls). We think it is interesting to note that only about 10 percent of livestock die in the plaza; the rest either die in the field in a natural way or are slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.


    The breeding and handling of the fighting bull, from birth until it comes out through the chiqueros of the plaza, can be considered as the paradigm of animal welfare.


    But it is that in a confinement or a cape where animals run freely in a circuit roaming for their respects and giving free rein to their instincts and where they are not hurt at all, there is no abuse.


    In addition, during the transfer, the trucks and the conditions of the trip and accommodation must comply with the strict European rules of animal welfare, being checked and supervised by the authorized veterinary services and by the governmental and police authority. Everything is absolutely legislated in terms of welfare and animal health until the death of the bull.


    The slaughter or sacrifice of animals should not scandalize us. Homo sapiens, as a species, has every right in the world to kill other species for their interest, as do the cat, the lion, the lynx or the eagle. We, instead of killing, use the euphemism sacrifice, because it is done in the most humane way possible. The slaughter of animals is enormously regulated in all civilized countries, complying with all the standards that guarantee a dignified death.


    Bearing all this in mind, we could consider abuse not the fight or bullfighting itself, but when the animal is injured during the fight, being especially unpleasant for some people when the bull dies in the square. But is that the other option is to die humanitarianly pointed.


    Here I allow myself a subjective license ... is it a dignified death for a brave bull to die pointed in a slaughterhouse? Precisely we believe that death in the square is what most deserves (the most dignified) an animal that has been highly selected and raised expressly to fight and defend his life in a bullring before a bullfighter, thus creating a deep feeling ( for many, artistic, although for others it is not). The death of an imposing brave bull pointed in a corral or in a slaughterhouse that we find a death unworthy for him, since we cut his reason for being. Other people, on the other hand, find the death of the bull in the plaza abhorrent. As we have already mentioned, it is a matter of sensitivities.


    As it is a matter of sensitivities the abortion or 'sacrifice' of human embryos; or the euthanasia or 'sacrifice' of terminal people. To some people their sensitivity leads them to take a position and to others it leads to the opposite.


    Says Francis Wolff (1), Professor of Philosophy at the University of Paris: "There is only one argument against bullfighting and it is not really an argument. It is called sensitivity ... Sensitivity is not an argument and yet it is the strongest reason that can be opposed against bullfighting ... but can the sensitivity of some be enough to condemn the sensitivity of others? ".

    Francis Wolff. 2010. 50 reasons to defend the bullfight. Ed .: Campo Bravo SL. Madrid. pp 9-10.

    https://www.taurologia.com/respuesta...tura--4492.htm
    Carlos indeed tradition and a supposed ‘dignified’ dead as a bull in the arena....They only cause in my mind because my mindset and upbringing etc is different. And of course sensitivity is not a kind of rational argument, why should it be, nevertheless the society would be a hell without it. And I don’t see what kind of sensitivity I condemn when I am sensitive for killing a bull as a kind of entertainment.

    When I think of bull fighting I see spectacle, entertainment, blood drunk crowds and in the end an exhausted tortured animal..... I just pass for that.


    Sent from my iPad using Eupedia Forum

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Well, as the "expert" put it so much better, is it "better" and more "humane" to breed it for meat and shoot it in the head to stun it before killing it, or to breed it to fight and die in the open before being eaten? I really don't know.

    All I know is that while I didn't turn into an aficionado, I loved my week in Pamplona, and wasn't sickened by the bullfight.

    Now, when humans are trained to fight each other, as in the boxing ring, I don't like to see it. An animal is one thing, humans are another.

    It's different in the movies, where you know it's all fake, but I've seen two real, violent fights between men in my life, and I was shaking for an hour afterwards. I've also seen the aftermath, when police and prosecutors are called in, where even if it didn't leave one or both dead, is horrific to see.

    What people do to each other, to children, every second of the day is far worse than anything they do to that bull in the ring.

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    Without a bullfight that race of bulls would become extinct because their conception is not destined for the flesh; although his meat can be obtained. The first time I tasted the bravo bull meat was in a restaurant of a nobleman who had enabled his instances to modern times as a way to obtain resources and had bravo bull meat so it was a brave bull burger what I ordered and is inexplicable the feeling of fullness that gave me that addictive meat, then in the days and successive weeks you want more.


    No one is thirsty or drunk with blood. Maybe people have forgotten to observe the bullfighter, his suit, his courage. No one knows or assumes that only the blood of the bull will run, the bullfighter's life is also at stake. Does the bull's life matter more, a wild animal that will kill you at the slightest opportunity? Somebody can go with a Pacma card and put himself in front of a bull because he is going to kill you, since it happened to an American activist, the bull killed her without regard.


    The concept of the corrida I think that it is not an orgy of blood or an enjoyment in the blood but an awe of the soul to see how a man with a rag faces the beast and also is able to create art and beauty. It's not like when your team hits a goal to the contrary, it's not that kind of enjoyment.


    The celebration of the bulls is the last redoubt of good sense that is left to the West. Please, where are we going to stop? We will finish anesthetized and filter everything.

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    Men who have adopted brave bulls. I do not believe that the future of the race is in being a companion animal but it shows that man is capable of achieving anything.




































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