Spain's Blood Sport Culture of Bullfighting

Torture is neither sport not culture. Mostly of spaniards hate the Tauromaquia, and me is one of them.
 
Torture is neither sport not culture. Mostly of spaniards hate the Tauromaquia, and me is one of them.

I want them to continue killing bulls in the squares and that the bullfighter never dies although I have never attended a bullfight nor do I intend to do it, yes I have seen it by t.v. But I support bullfighting live the bullfights and the final outcome.
 
Hunting deer to cull the deer population since we have killed all the wolves that did that for us is one thing. Corrida is another. Slaughterhouses in the US kill cows/bulls humanely. Feedlots on the other hand are the devil's work.

BTW I was raised on a farm until I was 12 and then in the summers until 19yo. I have shoveled enough cow poop to last me a lifetime. I have killed chicken and rabbits for food and I have castrated hogs. Let's just say that the castration was the most barbaric thing that I have ever done/witnessed. They would holler for days. I just wish it was done more humanely.

It never bothered me when my bisnonna wrung the neck of the chickens or bopped the rabbits over the head, but I always found something to do far on the other side of the property if I was there when they butchered the hogs. It's about the sound they make and all the blood. I didn't want to be around when they butchered the cows either, but it was almost always just a few calves for veal, and, of course, lamb.

I'm a hypocrite, though, as it doesn't stop me from loving (and eating) sausage and cured pork products, and all the other meats as well, for that matter.
 
Ill play the devils advocate here:
First you should all look in a mirror and see the reflection of hypocrisy, all of you who have pets and eat meat.
Cows and bulls are butchered everywhere in the world, just for fun and enjoyment. Eating meat is not a necessity, so when you do it, its for your pleasure. Even if they are not butchered, they are kept as dairy producers, and that´s not much better.
Secondly. The bull might be happy, or die in a happy way. Bulls are meant to fight predators or their own kind for reproduction. They are meant to fight and die, or survive. It might be more true to the bulls nature to fight and die, full of hormones and aggression than to be put down with a gun in a slaughterhouse.
However... a point is... that humans are full of projections of their emotions onto animals: "Doggy loves mama", when its really only slavishly begging for food. When discussing bullfights there is no end to the positive and negative projections people make. The most interesting about bullfighting is that it goes far back into the hunterers stoneage, and such we can see that our memes from back then are still alive in the form of bullfighting. What other memes are there, that are so integrated that we cannot even see them? Thats interesting.
 
I simply get sickening of bloody bull fightening ('too much' empathy.....). So I can't see the entertainment of it....others obviously do.
Of course you can see this as hypocrisy because I buy the meat in clean cellophane at the supermarket nice butchered, not recognizable as animal anymore. The reality of the slaughter house is far away. My grandfather did the filleting of the rabbits and chicken by himself and in november the pig was slaughtered (by a traveling butcher). In that sense it was more 'honest'.
But for me there is a difference with torturing animals for fun/entertainment.
 
The response of a recognized expert: Is bullfighting torture or animal abuse?

Basically, anti-bullfighting currents base their arguments on bullfighting as torture and animal abuse.

But bullfighting itself is a physical activity, both man and bovine, taking advantage of the innate aggressiveness of it. It is, therefore, an activity similar to the one that can be done riding on horseback, sledding with dogs or making work animals draft (horses, oxen ...). There is no torture or mistreatment in these activities, just as we can not consider mistreating a woman by fighting or running her.

The problem arises when, during the fight, utensils are used tending to physically injure the animal in order to stimulate it or to lose strength and power to subdue it. It should not scandalize us to speak of subjection, since all domestic animals -and the brave bull is- are subject to the will or interest of man: we educate the dog or the cat, we tame the horse, we milk the cows or sheep ...

Sitting on this foundation that bullfighting without hurting the animal is not torture or abuse, we could ask ourselves: is torture or abuse bullfighting when the animal is injured?

It is necessary to clarify here that the bovine res, during the fight, is not injured for pleasure or indiscriminately. There are two situations in which the fighting animals are wounded: in the tentadero and in the bullfight. In the tentadero de eralas (two-year-old calves) they are made to enter the horse by repeatedly stinging them with a small puja that only *****s its skin without reaching deeper tissues, so that they hardly bleed. It is a complex evaluation of his behavior in the horse to be able to assess his bravery and only done once in his life. The tentadero is the base of the genetic selection of the fighting bulls.

The fighting race is one of the few that man has selected based on its behavioral and non-aesthetic or productive characteristics. Precisely, behavior is one of the most difficult aspects to fix in genetic selection. We can assure, without fear of being wrong, that this breed is a genetic prodigy achieved by the Spanish breeders for hundreds of years for a specific purpose: to create a fierce animal but capable of attacking with nobility to achieve a very particular aesthetic, which may be liked or not, but that is unique.

The other situation in which the fighting animals are wounded is in the bullfight (basically bulls and bullfighters), being three phases of the fight in which utensils are used to break the bull. The first is the luck or third of a stick, where the puya is used, the second is the luck of banderillas and the third is the supreme luck, where the rapier is used to kill the bull.


Technically it is necessary to hurt the bull with the puja to break it and save his attack, and of course it is not done to hurt the bull for the pleasure of seeing him suffer as some argue. The dictionary of the Spanish Royal Academy of Language (RAE) defines the word break as "Diminish forces or brio; soften or temper the excess of something ". In this case, the bull is taken to the horse so that it softens its onslaught and can be bullied with more mettle, which gives bullfighting more artistic beauty. A bull without itching is usually much more rough in the onslaught, nods more and has the highest face, making the fight difficult. However, this luck is closely monitored and legislated, checking the authority the dimensions of the puja, the weight of the horses, the number of rods that a bull undergoes, etc.

Is bullfight torture?


We must use the dictionary of the SAR again to find the definition of torture; in it, it is defined as the "serious physical or psychological pain inflicted on someone, with different methods and utensils, in order to obtain from him a confession, or as a means of punishment." As we see, use the indefinite pronoun someone, which refers to people; however, we could also apply it to animals. But we deduce that the fight is not torture, since it is not about causing pain to punish the animal for something bad that has been done. On the contrary, when the animal is wounded during its fight, it is for the purpose of genetic selection and therefore zootechnical, or it is to achieve the attack of a powerful animal and thus be able to express an art appreciated by many people and personalities of the arts, letters and sciences through the ages. Other people, on the other hand, do not see art here. It's a matter of sensitivities.

For its part, the Organic Law 10/1995, of November 23, of the Criminal Code, in its articles 173 and following that deal with "torture and other crimes against moral integrity" does not contemplate animals as an object of torture.


The bull is wounded during the fight, but not to cause pain, but for reasons that have a specific purpose and subject to strict legal regulations. For these reasons we believe that bullfighting can not be considered torture.

Is bullfighting animal abuse?


We turn again to the dictionary of the RAE, where the word abuse appears defined as "Treat someone wrongly word or deed". Again use the pronoun someone, but apply it to the animals.


Do we really treat the fighting cattle badly? Definitely not, rather the opposite. The breeding of fighting cattle is one of the most natural that takes place in domestic species, usually in places of great environmental value. Ethology, food, genetics, health and all natural management are meticulously respected.


For example, in an exploitation of milk cows, they are inseminated artificially in the heat and milked until about two months before the birth; the terneritos usually separate of the mother as soon as they are born and are reared with adequate milk powder. After three to six months (depending on the type of weaning), go to the transitional pens and bait until they reach the sales weight with about 14 months. During all this time, mother and calf are treated with all care and care, complying with all the rules of animal welfare and health.


The same happens with fighting cattle, only that the cows are separated with a stallion during the breeding period and the calves are naturally weaned from their mothers at 7 or 8 months of age. Then they go to the closed with animals of the same sex and age. The females are tempted with about two years and if they do not show nobility and bravery they are fattened and humanely sacrificed in a slaughterhouse; otherwise they are left as nurse cows until they die of old age. Meanwhile, the males are separated in runs with about 3 years of age (utreros) and are usually bullied with 4 or 5 years (bulls). We think it is interesting to note that only about 10 percent of livestock die in the plaza; the rest either die in the field in a natural way or are slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.


The breeding and handling of the fighting bull, from birth until it comes out through the chiqueros of the plaza, can be considered as the paradigm of animal welfare.


But it is that in a confinement or a cape where animals run freely in a circuit roaming for their respects and giving free rein to their instincts and where they are not hurt at all, there is no abuse.


In addition, during the transfer, the trucks and the conditions of the trip and accommodation must comply with the strict European rules of animal welfare, being checked and supervised by the authorized veterinary services and by the governmental and police authority. Everything is absolutely legislated in terms of welfare and animal health until the death of the bull.


The slaughter or sacrifice of animals should not scandalize us. Homo sapiens, as a species, has every right in the world to kill other species for their interest, as do the cat, the lion, the lynx or the eagle. We, instead of killing, use the euphemism sacrifice, because it is done in the most humane way possible. The slaughter of animals is enormously regulated in all civilized countries, complying with all the standards that guarantee a dignified death.


Bearing all this in mind, we could consider abuse not the fight or bullfighting itself, but when the animal is injured during the fight, being especially unpleasant for some people when the bull dies in the square. But is that the other option is to die humanitarianly pointed.


Here I allow myself a subjective license ... is it a dignified death for a brave bull to die pointed in a slaughterhouse? Precisely we believe that death in the square is what most deserves (the most dignified) an animal that has been highly selected and raised expressly to fight and defend his life in a bullring before a bullfighter, thus creating a deep feeling ( for many, artistic, although for others it is not). The death of an imposing brave bull pointed in a corral or in a slaughterhouse that we find a death unworthy for him, since we cut his reason for being. Other people, on the other hand, find the death of the bull in the plaza abhorrent. As we have already mentioned, it is a matter of sensitivities.


As it is a matter of sensitivities the abortion or 'sacrifice' of human embryos; or the euthanasia or 'sacrifice' of terminal people. To some people their sensitivity leads them to take a position and to others it leads to the opposite.


Says Francis Wolff (1), Professor of Philosophy at the University of Paris: "There is only one argument against bullfighting and it is not really an argument. It is called sensitivity ... Sensitivity is not an argument and yet it is the strongest reason that can be opposed against bullfighting ... but can the sensitivity of some be enough to condemn the sensitivity of others? ".

Francis Wolff. 2010. 50 reasons to defend the bullfight. Ed .: Campo Bravo SL. Madrid. pp 9-10.

https://www.taurologia.com/respuesta-reconocido-experto-toreo-tortura--4492.htm
 
The response of a recognized expert: Is bullfighting torture or animal abuse?

Basically, anti-bullfighting currents base their arguments on bullfighting as torture and animal abuse.

But bullfighting itself is a physical activity, both man and bovine, taking advantage of the innate aggressiveness of it. It is, therefore, an activity similar to the one that can be done riding on horseback, sledding with dogs or making work animals draft (horses, oxen ...). There is no torture or mistreatment in these activities, just as we can not consider mistreating a woman by fighting or running her.

The problem arises when, during the fight, utensils are used tending to physically injure the animal in order to stimulate it or to lose strength and power to subdue it. It should not scandalize us to speak of subjection, since all domestic animals -and the brave bull is- are subject to the will or interest of man: we educate the dog or the cat, we tame the horse, we milk the cows or sheep ...

Sitting on this foundation that bullfighting without hurting the animal is not torture or abuse, we could ask ourselves: is torture or abuse bullfighting when the animal is injured?

It is necessary to clarify here that the bovine res, during the fight, is not injured for pleasure or indiscriminately. There are two situations in which the fighting animals are wounded: in the tentadero and in the bullfight. In the tentadero de eralas (two-year-old calves) they are made to enter the horse by repeatedly stinging them with a small puja that only *****s its skin without reaching deeper tissues, so that they hardly bleed. It is a complex evaluation of his behavior in the horse to be able to assess his bravery and only done once in his life. The tentadero is the base of the genetic selection of the fighting bulls.

The fighting race is one of the few that man has selected based on its behavioral and non-aesthetic or productive characteristics. Precisely, behavior is one of the most difficult aspects to fix in genetic selection. We can assure, without fear of being wrong, that this breed is a genetic prodigy achieved by the Spanish breeders for hundreds of years for a specific purpose: to create a fierce animal but capable of attacking with nobility to achieve a very particular aesthetic, which may be liked or not, but that is unique.

The other situation in which the fighting animals are wounded is in the bullfight (basically bulls and bullfighters), being three phases of the fight in which utensils are used to break the bull. The first is the luck or third of a stick, where the puya is used, the second is the luck of banderillas and the third is the supreme luck, where the rapier is used to kill the bull.


Technically it is necessary to hurt the bull with the puja to break it and save his attack, and of course it is not done to hurt the bull for the pleasure of seeing him suffer as some argue. The dictionary of the Spanish Royal Academy of Language (RAE) defines the word break as "Diminish forces or brio; soften or temper the excess of something ". In this case, the bull is taken to the horse so that it softens its onslaught and can be bullied with more mettle, which gives bullfighting more artistic beauty. A bull without itching is usually much more rough in the onslaught, nods more and has the highest face, making the fight difficult. However, this luck is closely monitored and legislated, checking the authority the dimensions of the puja, the weight of the horses, the number of rods that a bull undergoes, etc.

Is bullfight torture?


We must use the dictionary of the SAR again to find the definition of torture; in it, it is defined as the "serious physical or psychological pain inflicted on someone, with different methods and utensils, in order to obtain from him a confession, or as a means of punishment." As we see, use the indefinite pronoun someone, which refers to people; however, we could also apply it to animals. But we deduce that the fight is not torture, since it is not about causing pain to punish the animal for something bad that has been done. On the contrary, when the animal is wounded during its fight, it is for the purpose of genetic selection and therefore zootechnical, or it is to achieve the attack of a powerful animal and thus be able to express an art appreciated by many people and personalities of the arts, letters and sciences through the ages. Other people, on the other hand, do not see art here. It's a matter of sensitivities.

For its part, the Organic Law 10/1995, of November 23, of the Criminal Code, in its articles 173 and following that deal with "torture and other crimes against moral integrity" does not contemplate animals as an object of torture.


The bull is wounded during the fight, but not to cause pain, but for reasons that have a specific purpose and subject to strict legal regulations. For these reasons we believe that bullfighting can not be considered torture.

Is bullfighting animal abuse?


We turn again to the dictionary of the RAE, where the word abuse appears defined as "Treat someone wrongly word or deed". Again use the pronoun someone, but apply it to the animals.


Do we really treat the fighting cattle badly? Definitely not, rather the opposite. The breeding of fighting cattle is one of the most natural that takes place in domestic species, usually in places of great environmental value. Ethology, food, genetics, health and all natural management are meticulously respected.


For example, in an exploitation of milk cows, they are inseminated artificially in the heat and milked until about two months before the birth; the terneritos usually separate of the mother as soon as they are born and are reared with adequate milk powder. After three to six months (depending on the type of weaning), go to the transitional pens and bait until they reach the sales weight with about 14 months. During all this time, mother and calf are treated with all care and care, complying with all the rules of animal welfare and health.


The same happens with fighting cattle, only that the cows are separated with a stallion during the breeding period and the calves are naturally weaned from their mothers at 7 or 8 months of age. Then they go to the closed with animals of the same sex and age. The females are tempted with about two years and if they do not show nobility and bravery they are fattened and humanely sacrificed in a slaughterhouse; otherwise they are left as nurse cows until they die of old age. Meanwhile, the males are separated in runs with about 3 years of age (utreros) and are usually bullied with 4 or 5 years (bulls). We think it is interesting to note that only about 10 percent of livestock die in the plaza; the rest either die in the field in a natural way or are slaughtered in the slaughterhouse.


The breeding and handling of the fighting bull, from birth until it comes out through the chiqueros of the plaza, can be considered as the paradigm of animal welfare.


But it is that in a confinement or a cape where animals run freely in a circuit roaming for their respects and giving free rein to their instincts and where they are not hurt at all, there is no abuse.


In addition, during the transfer, the trucks and the conditions of the trip and accommodation must comply with the strict European rules of animal welfare, being checked and supervised by the authorized veterinary services and by the governmental and police authority. Everything is absolutely legislated in terms of welfare and animal health until the death of the bull.


The slaughter or sacrifice of animals should not scandalize us. Homo sapiens, as a species, has every right in the world to kill other species for their interest, as do the cat, the lion, the lynx or the eagle. We, instead of killing, use the euphemism sacrifice, because it is done in the most humane way possible. The slaughter of animals is enormously regulated in all civilized countries, complying with all the standards that guarantee a dignified death.


Bearing all this in mind, we could consider abuse not the fight or bullfighting itself, but when the animal is injured during the fight, being especially unpleasant for some people when the bull dies in the square. But is that the other option is to die humanitarianly pointed.


Here I allow myself a subjective license ... is it a dignified death for a brave bull to die pointed in a slaughterhouse? Precisely we believe that death in the square is what most deserves (the most dignified) an animal that has been highly selected and raised expressly to fight and defend his life in a bullring before a bullfighter, thus creating a deep feeling ( for many, artistic, although for others it is not). The death of an imposing brave bull pointed in a corral or in a slaughterhouse that we find a death unworthy for him, since we cut his reason for being. Other people, on the other hand, find the death of the bull in the plaza abhorrent. As we have already mentioned, it is a matter of sensitivities.


As it is a matter of sensitivities the abortion or 'sacrifice' of human embryos; or the euthanasia or 'sacrifice' of terminal people. To some people their sensitivity leads them to take a position and to others it leads to the opposite.


Says Francis Wolff (1), Professor of Philosophy at the University of Paris: "There is only one argument against bullfighting and it is not really an argument. It is called sensitivity ... Sensitivity is not an argument and yet it is the strongest reason that can be opposed against bullfighting ... but can the sensitivity of some be enough to condemn the sensitivity of others? ".

Francis Wolff. 2010. 50 reasons to defend the bullfight. Ed .: Campo Bravo SL. Madrid. pp 9-10.

https://www.taurologia.com/respuesta-reconocido-experto-toreo-tortura--4492.htm

Carlos indeed tradition and a supposed ‘dignified’ dead as a bull in the arena....They only cause [emoji849] in my mind because my mindset and upbringing etc is different. And of course sensitivity is not a kind of rational argument, why should it be, nevertheless the society would be a hell without it. And I don’t see what kind of sensitivity I condemn when I am sensitive for killing a bull as a kind of entertainment.

When I think of bull fighting I see spectacle, entertainment, blood drunk crowds and in the end an exhausted tortured animal..... I just pass for that.


Sent from my iPad using Eupedia Forum
 
Well, as the "expert" put it so much better, is it "better" and more "humane" to breed it for meat and shoot it in the head to stun it before killing it, or to breed it to fight and die in the open before being eaten? I really don't know.

All I know is that while I didn't turn into an aficionado, I loved my week in Pamplona, and wasn't sickened by the bullfight.

Now, when humans are trained to fight each other, as in the boxing ring, I don't like to see it. An animal is one thing, humans are another.

It's different in the movies, where you know it's all fake, but I've seen two real, violent fights between men in my life, and I was shaking for an hour afterwards. I've also seen the aftermath, when police and prosecutors are called in, where even if it didn't leave one or both dead, is horrific to see.

What people do to each other, to children, every second of the day is far worse than anything they do to that bull in the ring.
 
Without a bullfight that race of bulls would become extinct because their conception is not destined for the flesh; although his meat can be obtained. The first time I tasted the bravo bull meat was in a restaurant of a nobleman who had enabled his instances to modern times as a way to obtain resources and had bravo bull meat so it was a brave bull burger what I ordered and is inexplicable the feeling of fullness that gave me that addictive meat, then in the days and successive weeks you want more.


No one is thirsty or drunk with blood. Maybe people have forgotten to observe the bullfighter, his suit, his courage. No one knows or assumes that only the blood of the bull will run, the bullfighter's life is also at stake. Does the bull's life matter more, a wild animal that will kill you at the slightest opportunity? Somebody can go with a Pacma card and put himself in front of a bull because he is going to kill you, since it happened to an American activist, the bull killed her without regard.


The concept of the corrida I think that it is not an orgy of blood or an enjoyment in the blood but an awe of the soul to see how a man with a rag faces the beast and also is able to create art and beauty. It's not like when your team hits a goal to the contrary, it's not that kind of enjoyment.


The celebration of the bulls is the last redoubt of good sense that is left to the West. Please, where are we going to stop? We will finish anesthetized and filter everything.
 
Men who have adopted brave bulls. I do not believe that the future of the race is in being a companion animal but it shows that man is capable of achieving anything.

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Bullfighting is just another indicator of mental degradation that is detected in humanity by various forms.
 

Charlotada o "Charlotá"

Comic bullfighting
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Comic bullfighting or charlotate, also known as bullfighting bufo, is a variant of bullfighting, although comic. The name of charlota is due to the nickname of the artist Carmelo Tusquellas, who acted dressed as Charlot, famous character of Charles Chaplin.


Featured artists
In addition to Tusquellas, other artists who stood out in the comic bullfighting were Rafael Dutrús and José Colomer, who participated in a trio called the “company of Charlot, Llapisera and Buttons.” Great figure of the Valencian comic bullfighting, Dutrús also acted with the musical formation the Banda l'Empastre.


Another prominent figure of the comic bullfighting is Pablo Celis Cuevas, responsible for the show The Bullfighter Firefighter, where he was dressed as a firefighter and where people with dwarfism also bullfighted. This show was no longer held in 2017.

PD: I disagree. They continue to be held or hired for group events privately.


https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toreo_cómico
 
Bullfighting is just another indicator of mental degradation that is detected in humanity by various forms.

Why?
It has been here since forever, and now you come about and say it's mental degradation :p

Go the the woods and look how naturally a wolf torments a deer or just look at your pet cat how she slices off the legs of a mouse and brings it to her kitten alive so she can practice hunting, how do animals die in nature?

It's the natural state of survival.
 
The Romans left a legacy in Spain that goes beyond culture and language or the typical cliche legacy of VGH MUH BASED ROMAN RUINS like in several regions of Europe and Middle-East. Bullfighting is one of those Roman cultural elements that survived in Spain (and Portugal), it should be remembered that those arenas and sword fighting techniques used by bullfighters are an evolution of gladiator combat with beasts.
So no, don't blame the Spaniards for maintaining a custom so old that it recently became a taboo due to the apparition of environmentalist ideologies from other European countries and the US.
 
I wouldn't apologize for it if I were a Spaniard. I spent a marvelous five or six days in Pamplona during the festival of San Fermin when my cousin and I were backpacking through Europe, and I went to the Corrida almost every day.

I don't think using the picadors is fair play, but other than that I was quite enthralled. Minus them, it's quite an exhilarating and beautiful exhibition of a contest of man versus beast, a beast bred specifically for ferocity, I might add. He's going to end up as food eventually so he may as well have a try at taking out a human while he's at it. It's also done quite beautifully and elegantly. This isn't "The Gladiator".

I particularly liked the running of the bulls, where the bulls have all the advantage, and the runners need speed and agility to keep out of their way. It reminded me of the Minoan frescos of the bull dancers. I've told the story here before that one afternoon, while I was sitting next to this grizzled, robust, countryman, a Northern European who had unwisely decided to try his luck lost his nerve and tried to scramble up the barricades. The man next to me calmly leaned over, loosened his fingers and tossed him back him. He then offered me a pour of wine from his leather pouch, which I gladly accepted. :) This was the old man's culture, his ritual, and another man who wants to take part in it should know what he's getting into, and should honor it. I horrified my cousin by doing it.

I draw the line on man on man combat, however. I only ever saw one terrible fist fight, which happened to include my husband to be, and I never want to see another one in person ever again if I can help it. I'd certainly never pay to go to a prizefight. Fighting to protect your family is a different thing, but still terrible and scarring.
 

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