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Thread: Hunter-gatherers more violent than farmers

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    You are working for the CIA?
    LIES!
    Sorry, but this is not much of an argument I can respond to. Do you have extra information in this regard? Post some valid information, dude!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    In the immortal words of Jimmy Stewart's character in "It's a wonderful Life", George Bailey says "Oh why don't you go annoy somebody else?"
    I wouldn't have said this better. Bravo!

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    And that from an annoying American on a European forum.

    I guess people from the CIA are busy to influence European media.
    So, it's only natural to expect a proper response on American bullshit propaganda.

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    This post ist the best of all:

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    Well.. Can you agree with me that people from Islands like Great Britain and America can afford to have loud mouths?

    Europeans on the continent have had to seek some diplomatic arrangement for hundreds of years.

    It's not about how vigilant or brave a people is, but how intelligent the leaders are.

    Europe wants a great economy. Friendly relations with Russia at least.
    We can have a Eurasian economy getting stronger and stronger, but Britain and America are on the war path to disturb that European target.
    It's that simple.
    Sorry for dropping by, I'm a Continental European and I want state clearly that I'm taking strong distance of your thoughts and most other Continental Europeans would probably do, too.
    Of course war is dirty! It always is! But do you seriously think that Europe and Russia want to build up an utopian Empire of Love and Peace while the US and the UK are seeking for a war within that place so to have the chance to loot afterwards. Who told you that? Where have you read about it?
    You are not less fanatic than a Nazi or a Muslim terrorist: Well chosen words to describe how we are the angels and there are the devils! Pure black and white thoughts! The same accusation you gave to your "enemies".

    The sad truth is, Europe is not that wealthy because the people here have been so peace loving the last decades, but because of it's wealth there has been no need for military intervention and hatred for it's neighbours. (BTW very strange view that Great Britain hasn't experienced any wars the last centuries while Continental Europe has, and has been working on peace for hundreds of years -through wars!) But let things change, let the economy go further down (much further) and blame the neighbours for that misery. I am sure people will get a different opinion of their European neighbours!
    Here in Germany many people like to blame the government for it's warfare in Afghanistan, for it's security cams on the streets and over all "Big Brother" and dictatorship mentality. I have to take the subway in Berlin within heavily crowded stations at least twice a day; the numbers of armoured police men have risen the last years, on electronic boards you can read the sentences "please be aware of lone bags and luggage". But just let a bomb blow up -and I'm very sure it will sooner or later- people will blame the gov for haven't acted earlier and seak for revenge. Withdraw all troops from Afghanistan, and watch Al Quaida take over Pakistan, a nation with nuclear weapons, too! Do you seriously think you will still sit there happily and satisfied?
    It is not about living in permanent fear for the rest of your life, but it is about staying level-headed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinaert View Post
    Bla bla.. We were all sinners but the British were the worst of all...
    Agree?


    100 year war against France. Reason.. Looting.
    No. You invented Advocaat. That in itself is a crime against humanity.

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    Haha.. Your comment on my posting about warmongers like Great Britain and the USA only prove I am right. Of course the warmongers influence European governments. Wikileaks shows that very clear!!

    But members from our goverments are not speaking like the majority of the people. They are bought. There are a lot of relations known between European politicians and American companies.

    As I said before, governments use taxpayers money to finance companies.
    These companies accumulate enormous profits. These profits are used to influence international trade. Look at the price of gold for instance.

    It's pure capitalism to stock lots of it somewhere.. Buy buy buy so the price goes up. And than it's even more profitable to wage a war in Afghanistan to plunder their gold.

    On the other hand, so called terrorist threat is used to get more control over the people. The European states change into police states more and more.

    BTW Pakistan got nuclear weapons with the support of the USA!!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Qadeer_Khan

    The funny part is, the Dutch knew what he was doing, and wanted to arrest him.
    But there was an American request to Prime Minister Ruud Lubbers that mister Khan should be able to leave The Netherlands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    ......

    One last fact that should make you feel better- the US is not looting- we're losing money like crazy over there. Oh yes, we are also still conducting operations in a place which formerly was a safe haven for terrorists.
    US is a capitalist machine and never makes anything free. However, it is very normal and all the superpowers made the same all through the history since they must feed their unemployed people.

    can you give the details of money you spend for this "operation".

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    Haha The real terrorists in this world live in the USA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian View Post
    US is a capitalist machine and never makes anything free. However, it is very normal and all the superpowers made the same all through the history since they must feed their unemployed people.

    can you give the details of money you spend for this "operation".


    I bowed out of this discussion a while back. The details which you desire are not that hard to find. Good day to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
    I bowed out of this discussion a while back. The details which you desire are not that hard to find. Good day to you.
    it is not hard to find anything that we discuss, but it is important that you see the result when you search.

    anyway, nice day to you.

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    Well Barberian.. This site shows the US debt.

    http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

    Problem is, it doesn't show how many US companies get as a profit.

    Taxpayers money is robbed, and the rich get richer.

    I feel sorry for the John Doe's in America that don't have a proper medical care, no job, no house, all because some rich families wanted to get even richer.

    There's no American Dream, it's an American Nightmare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkie View Post
    No. You invented Advocaat. That in itself is a crime against humanity.
    Well, the Brits seemed to have missed some cooking lessons in their past.
    If you mix the yoke of an egg with vinegar, you get mayonnaise.
    You can the same stuff with alcohol, and then you get the Dutch Advocaat.
    Nothing wrong with it.. Both vinegar and alcohol kill bacteria.

    But, to come back to the subject...

    Hunter/Gatherers.. Peaceful.. Only incidental clashes.
    Farmers.. More complex Sometimes wars with bands of hunter/gatherers. More violence.
    Traders/industrialists Very complex society. War is standard to get the materials necessary for waging war. Propaganda is used to oppress the truth. People are fed with lies every day.

    Capitalism ultimately needs fascism to persevere.
    And that is what we as the people of our planet Earth now experience.

    Governements are getting more and more out of democratic control.

    Look at the todays Dutch government, in fact a minority government.
    The right wing assholes are counting on the support of a bunch of ultra right idiots with a racist background. Geert Wilders is a lunatic, supported by ultra conservative American funds.

    That shows what I am very angry about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Communist by life View Post
    Well, the Brits seemed to have missed some cooking lessons in their past.
    If you mix the yoke of an egg with vinegar, you get mayonnaise.
    You can the same stuff with alcohol, and then you get the Dutch Advocaat.
    Nothing wrong with it.. Both vinegar and alcohol kill bacteria.

    But, to come back to the subject...

    Hunter/Gatherers.. Peaceful.. Only incidental clashes.
    Farmers.. More complex Sometimes wars with bands of hunter/gatherers. More violence.
    Traders/industrialists Very complex society. War is standard to get the materials necessary for waging war. Propaganda is used to oppress the truth. People are fed with lies every day.

    Capitalism ultimately needs fascism to persevere.
    And that is what we as the people of our planet Earth now experience.

    Governements are getting more and more out of democratic control.

    Look at the todays Dutch government, in fact a minority government.
    The right wing assholes are counting on the support of a bunch of ultra right idiots with a racist background. Geert Wilders is a lunatic, supported by ultra conservative American funds.

    That shows what I am very angry about.
    So, what is your solution? Shall we go back to hunting and gathering now? As trading, industries and also farming will ultimatley lead to war, capitalism and this furthermore to fascism. We have no other choice!

  14. #39
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    Great summation of Reinaert logic (or whatever he uses to write his posts), thanks Mzungu.
    Time to move to the cave Reinaert. Your only salvation! Don't wait for the world, be a Gandhi, do what you believe in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Great summation of Reinaert logic (or whatever he uses to write his posts), thanks Mzungu.
    Time to move to the cave Reinaert. Your only salvation! Don't wait for the world, be a Gandhi, do what you believe in.
    You only ridiculize yourself with this post.

    Just wanted to get back to the subject.

    You fail to have good arguments against what I wrote, that's why you start behaving like a kid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mzungu mchagga View Post
    So, what is your solution? Shall we go back to hunting and gathering now? As trading, industries and also farming will ultimatley lead to war, capitalism and this furthermore to fascism. We have no other choice!
    Well, I guess you already know the answer.

    Hunter/Gatherers versus Farmers.
    Communism versus Capitalism.
    Greed versus Altruism.

    It would be a good idea to begin with fair trade.
    That was the basic idea of the EU anyway.
    Fair trade makes a war ridiculous.

    But where are we now in 2010?
    The same products are sold in the EU for very different prices.
    How strange!?

    So I come to the conclusion we have to deal with monopolism and capitalism.
    As in the old days, some assholes are stocking up stuff to speculate with it.

    The reason for wars in the end.

    A really free economy would kill capitalism anyway.

    I guess Buddha was right, greed causes all pain in this world.

    I was called a Gandhi, and I take that very positive.
    Thank you.

  17. #42
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    You don't grasp even basic ideas how things work. I wouldn't even know where to start explaining things to you. Your strong avoidance to discuss pints that we raised here doesn’t help that either. You're lacking basic, and I repeat BASIC understanding of economy or human nature. On other hand you have unbelievable ability of taking anything and twisting it to fit your hypothesis to your liking.
    You even twist my words too, or was it an example how illogical your understanding is? I never said you're a Gandhi. I said "be a Gandhi", and that meant that you are a hypocrite right now. To explain it better lets put it this way. We know you hate corporations/businesses, therefore to be like Gandhi you need to free yourself from their “evil” influence. Remove from your life everything that is made by companies. Don't use cloths, furniture, cars, buses, houses/buildings, electricity, gas, petrol, phones, computers and other electronics, etc. Don't use Internet, as it was started by US government and expended by corporations making hardware and software for it. At the end you wouldn’t be able to buy even a metal axe, because mining ore and forging iron is done by companies too. All left for you, in order to become Gandhi, is to go and live like a hunter-gatherer in the cave. Maybe you could start a little cultivation with a wooden hoe curved with help of flint stone. Well, you can always join some hunter’s tribes, there are still some left on this planet.
    I hope it explains what you have to do to be a Gandhi and live the way you preach here. Also it should give you a start in understanding how much you have to thank the corporations/businesses for. I’m sure they are not twisting your arms and torturing you, and forcing you to use their products, do they?

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    The US is indeed a military dictatorship they have been since the 1950s. You need to differentiate between wars you have wars for profit and wars for other. For example WWII was not profitable for Britain as Britain was getting razed to the ground. WWII was profitale for amerika because amerika was never bombed and the war was not fought on american soil. The Americans benefitted from it. Same thing with iraq, afghanistan etc... the military makes huge money you need companies who build the missles, airplanes etc... that costs a shit load of money and produces a bunch of money in turn for the huge corporations who build this stuff. The profitable or perfect war is "never" ending or very drawn out, it has acceptable casualities and it is also fought away from home and victory or lose does not matter.

    The War on Terrorism is indeed never ending as you will always have terrorists bush said this himself. Welcome to 1984 basically

    As for prior to the 50's amerika wasnt bad at all they where isolationists and never bothered others or europeans britain on the other hand has been sticking its nose where it shouldnt for centuries. just after the 50's amerika sadly inherited that role

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    Bogdan, show us the money, show us the numbers proving that US benefited from Iraq, Afghanistan and even in WW2 financially. Without the numbers how do you know that US benefits or benefited in above stated situations?

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    mr. lebrok,

    i also have a question for you.

    here is the list of money US spent for military expenditure since 2000

    2000 ---288.8 billon
    2005---420.7
    2006---441.6
    2009---663.255
    (300 bln for iraq and afghanistan is not included)

    663 bln dollar is very close to the total expenditure of the rest of the world. and 6 times more than china which is second in total expenditure.

    this money is %4.3 of their income (china %2, GB %2.5, russia 3.5)
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...56eb9d6d90.png

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

    do you really think this much effort is just for global peace and democracy? especially if there is already 1.5 mln homeless in US.

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    this is the main drug route (reminds me R1 route)

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1K736oupbC...s400/hbsfj.bmp

    south iraq plays an important role on this route. and the main income of PKK (kurdish gerillas) is narcotic straffic.

    %80 of global annual drug production is in afghanistan.

    edit: afghanistan is responsible for 90% of the global heroin output
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=19715
    some will say. us is there to stop this activity. but:
    ".....opium production in the country has grown more than 40 times over since 2001."
    narchotic industry is about 1.5 trillion dollar a year (2005) and the third biggest industry after oil and weapon.
    Last edited by barbarian; 27-12-10 at 01:11.

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    Thanks for the numbers barbarian, now we can calculate something. Couldn't find anything on net quickly, like value of each industry, I'll come back at you later when time allows. Off top of my head I would say that the construction, food industry, the banking and global finance, even automobile industry should easily beat your drugs and weapons numbers.
    Later, ....sorry don't have much time now.

    Can you tell us how US government controls and benefits from heroin production in Afghanistan. How it could be organized to hidden it from journalists and population in general on big scale? How much could the heroin be worth for US acting as a middle man?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Thanks for the numbers barbarian, now we can calculate something. Couldn't find anything on net quickly, like value of each industry, I'll come back at you later when time allows. Off top of my head I would say that the construction, food industry, the banking and global finance, even automobile industry should easily beat your drugs and weapons numbers.
    Later, ....sorry don't have much time now.

    Can you tell us how US government controls and benefits from heroin production in Afghanistan. How it could be organized to hidden it from journalists and population in general on big scale? How much could the heroin be worth for US acting as a middle man?
    you must also evaluate that it is just an agriculture. it is a black market without tax. you dont need to put big moneys in it. all you need is some unstable areas on your route (see; afghanistan, iran (kurdish parts), turkey (kurdish part), ex-USSR's, somali. you can increase your profit by selling some weapons, and stealing their oil also.

    it is all for democracy. :)

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    Do you have at least a shred of information that Iraqui's oil is getting stolen, or is it just only your suspicion because it fits your hypothesis?

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    There are different ways of stealing. Here are small informations about middle east:

    Total military expenditure of saudi arabia, kuwait and UAE is %28 of total annual global expenditure. And % 67 of this Money goes to US.

    Approximately, 1-1,5 trillion of total petrodollars of middle east are in US.

    During İran-Iraq war US supported Iraq because of Irans well-known ideological dreams. However, a kind of wikileaks showed that (in 1986) US was selling weapons to Iran also (see iran-gate, in Reagan era).

    Any country who doesnt want to be US’s mistress clearly needs democracy lessons from america, e.g. Iran, Syria, Iraq.

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