Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: English words with Latin roots that don't exist in French and Italian

  1. #1
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,873
    Points
    739,178
    Level
    100
    Points: 739,178, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 69.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Post English words with Latin roots that don't exist in French and Italian



    All languages have their particularities. Each language evolves along with its culture and environment. That's why some cultural expressions are untranslatable in languages of very different cultures (e.g. the Japanese politeness system has no equivalent in English).

    What I don't understand is how everyday words which once existed in a language could simply disappear after a few centuries. This seems to have occured a lot in French. Indeed, many words with Latin roots found in English and Italian can't be found in French. Here is a short list of those springing to mind.

    For example, French did not inherit the Latin words cancel (<i>cancellare</i> in Italian) and rescind (<i>rescindere</i> in Italian). The words nullify and void are derived from (medieval) French but don't exist in modern French.

    English and Italian words with Latin roots that don't exist in French

    English / Italian / French

    - cancel / cancellare / --- (from Latin cancellare ; English via Old French canceler, which disappeared in modern French)

    - casual / casuale / --- (note that the meaning of the English, the Italian and the original Latin word casualis are all different. However, the word casuel just doesn't exist in French, whatever its meaning).

    - causal / causale / --- (the French word "causal" doesn't exist, although causalité does).

    - collapse / collasso / --- (from Latin collapsus)

    - conspicuous / cospicuo / --- (from Latin conspicuus)

    - convenient / conveniente / --- (strangely missing in French, although the negative "inconvenient" does exist)

    - involve / coinvolgere / --- (from Latin involvere)

    - lemon / limone / --- (French only has the word citron, although the English comes from old French limon - itself derived from the Persian limun)

    - mere / mero / --- (the only translation is "simple", which also exist in English and Italian)

    - occur / occorere / --- (likewise, two different meanings, but derived from the common Latin root occurrere)

    - obvious / ovvio / --- (from Latin obvius)

    - picture / pittura / --- (meaning no identical in English and Italian)

    - placate / placare / --- (the French "plaquer" has a different meaning and etymology)

    - portentous / portentoso / --- (granted, not a very common word)

    - pungent / pungente / --- (from Latin pungentem)

    - rescind / rescindere / ---


    English words with Latin roots that don't exist in French or Italian

    - apology/apologize/apologetic (from Latin and Greek apologia)

    - captious (from Latin captiosus via Middle French captieux)

    - compel (from Latin compellere via Old French compellir)

    - coruscate/coruscation (from Latin coruscare)

    - deciduous (from Latin deciduus)

    - decorous (from Latin decorus)

    - demeanour (from Old French demener)

    - endeavour (from Old French dever)

    - flavour (from Latin flator via Old French flaour)

    - fractious (derived from "fraction")

    - fusty (from Latin fustis via Old French fusté)

    - impel (from Latin impellere)

    - nullify

    - parlour (from Old French parleor)

    - perfunctory

    - perspiration

    - predicament (from Latin prædicamentum)

    - pregnant (from prægnantem, "with child")

    - previous

    - prior

    - privacy (the French translation is "vie privée" but the meaning is narrower and it doesn't work in many cases)

    - protrude (from Latin protrudere)

    - rapture (from Latin raptus via Middle Latin raptura)

    - ravenous (from Old French ravinos)

    - revolve

    - significance

    - tremendous (from Latin tremendus)

    - tremulous (from Latin tremulus)

    - ubiquitous (from Latin ubiquitarius)

    - venison (from Old French venesoun)

    - void

    In some cases, English has taken two variants of Latin spellings, while French and Italian have only kept one.

    - obedience, obeisance
    - regime, regimen
    - signification, significance
    Last edited by Maciamo; 03-08-10 at 18:17.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  2. #2
    www.worldprincess.net Achievements:
    3 months registered

    Join Date
    14-06-10
    Posts
    1


    Country: Philippines



    Perfect! I am trying to learn basic French. This post will really help a lot. I have this site bookmarked and will definitely check back for other post with same topic. Thanks a lot!

  3. #3
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered

    Join Date
    03-08-10
    Posts
    4


    Country: United Kingdom



    Is Latin really the root of romance languages?

    M R Harper posits that Latin is a synthetic language and not the root of the Romance languages. He points out that Latin has a neuter gender, unlike any Romance language (that I know of anyway), and that Latin declines nouns - and again I know of no Romance language that does that either. German however does both. On the other hand, German shares very few words with Latin. But English shares a lot of words with Latin, has a neuter gender and has the remnants of noun declension (John's meaning of John.) So is, in fact, English the root of Latin?

  4. #4
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered

    Join Date
    27-08-10
    Posts
    1


    Country: USA - New Jersey



    English used to have three genders, too (which is why we continue to call babies "it"), but the stage of English known as Old English emerged when Scandinavian tribes invaded the island (at that time a generally Celtic place) and stayed. This was about a thousand years after the stage of Latin known as classical Latin emerged.

    Anyone saying that Latin isn't the root of the Romance languages has a screw loose.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    22-01-11
    Posts
    127
    Points
    4,503
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,503, Level: 19
    Level completed: 64%, Points required for next Level: 147
    Overall activity: 1.0%


    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    English words with Latin roots that don't exist in French or Italian

    - apology/apologize/apologetic (from Latin and Greek apologia)

    - captious (from Latin captiosus via Middle French captieux)

    - compel (from Latin compellere via Old French compellir)

    - coruscate/coruscation (from Latin coruscare)

    - deciduous (from Latin deciduus)

    - decorous (from Latin decorus)

    - demeanour (from Old French demener)

    - endeavour (from Old French dever)

    - flavour (from Latin flator via Old French flaour)

    - fractious (derived from "fraction")

    - fusty (from Latin fustis via Old French fusté)

    - impel (from Latin impellere)

    - nullify

    - parlour (from Old French parleor)

    - perfunctory

    - perspiration

    - predicament (from Latin prædicamentum)

    - pregnant (from prægnantem, "with child")

    - previous

    - prior

    - privacy (the French translation is "vie privée" but the meaning is narrower and it doesn't work in many cases)

    - protrude (from Latin protrudere)

    - rapture (from Latin raptus via Middle Latin raptura)

    - ravenous (from Old French ravinos)

    - revolve

    - significance

    - tremendous (from Latin tremendus)

    - tremulous (from Latin tremulus)

    - ubiquitous (from Latin ubiquitarius)

    - venison (from Old French venesoun)

    - void
    Their Italian correspectives actually exist and are:
    apologia, capzioso, decoroso, frazione, impellente, nullificare, predica, pregno, privato, ratto, significato, tremulo, tremendo, vuoto.

  6. #6
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,873
    Points
    739,178
    Level
    100
    Points: 739,178, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 69.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Sybilla View Post
    Their Italian correspectives actually exist and are:
    apologia, capzioso, decoroso, frazione, impellente, nullificare, predica, pregno, privato, ratto, significato, tremulo, tremendo, vuoto.
    Thanks for your feedback. You are right for some of them, but not all. I will move them under the page English & Italian words missing in French.

    However, frazione means 'fraction' not the adjective 'fractious' (meaning irritabile, stizzoso).

    Likewise, privato (or privé in French) means 'private', but there is no noun in Italian or French equivalent to 'privacy' (you can't say privacia).

    The Italian predica means 'predicate', not 'predicament' (which means "difficult situation").

    As for 'significance' and 'void', I listed them in the wrong section. What I meant is that English has given new nuances to these terms. significato and vuoto translate as 'meaning' and 'empty'. The nuance for 'significance' and 'void' cannot be conveyed by these words. For example, you can understand the meaning of a law but fail to grasp its significance for society. You can say that a contract has become void, but not that it is empty.

    I was thinking of 'rapture' more in the sense of 'enraptured' (feeling of intense pleasure or joy), not in the sense of 'rape' or 'abduction'. I suppose I should place it in the list of words that acquired a new meaning in English.

    Finally, I was under the impression that apologia in Italian meant 'apologia' in English (i.e. a formal written defence of one's opinions or conduct) and not 'apology'. Apology/apologize would be scuse/scusarsi. English has both words and different meanings for each.

  7. #7
    Passione Mediterranea Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points
    julia90's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-09-10
    Location
    Florence-Prato
    Posts
    1,134
    Points
    40,630
    Level
    62
    Points: 40,630, Level: 62
    Level completed: 22%, Points required for next Level: 1,020
    Overall activity: 0%


    Ethnic group
    Tuscan-Italian-(European)
    Country: Italy



    i have one:

    To Delete from the Latin verb Delere.
    althoght in italian we have the adjective Doloso; but we haven't a verb, with that beginning.

    or maybe it's Dolere (to Hurt) in italian but it hasn't the same meaning of the english one.

    I never was someone great in latin.. so maybe i'm wrong.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    18-10-10
    Posts
    114
    Points
    2,376
    Level
    13
    Points: 2,376, Level: 13
    Level completed: 76%, Points required for next Level: 74
    Overall activity: 31.0%


    Country: United States



    Laura50,

    The English language is a West German language,( a member of Indo-European languages). So a good comparison would be to compare German to English words and meanings etc.

    http://en.wikpedia.org/wiki/English_language


    However, during the Norman/French invasion of England in 1066, many French/Latin words were introduced to the "English/Germanic" language.

    Melusine

  9. #9
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered250 Experience Points

    Join Date
    22-04-11
    Posts
    1


    Country: New Zealand



    Quote Originally Posted by denaria View Post
    M R Harper posits that Latin is a synthetic language and not the root of the Romance languages. Tulsa Travel He points out that Latin has a neuter gender, unlike any Romance language (that I know of anyway), and that Latin declines nouns - and again I know of no Romance language that does that either. German however does both. On the other hand, German shares very few words with Latin. But English shares a lot of words with Latin, has a neuter gender and has the remnants of noun declension (John's meaning of John.) So is, in fact, English the root of Latin?
    Classical Latin does boast a lot about its title as the ‘true Latin’. This maintains a high prestige and is most often recognized as the simple Latin above the other dialects. These dialects are collected together under the Late or Vulgar Latin category that was extended later into the Romance Languages. Actually, Vulgar Latin standard never existed, for various pronunciations or vocabularies and the grammatical structures that were reformed in all other parts of the Empire.
    Last edited by rufus; 23-04-11 at 09:32.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    19-01-13
    Posts
    1
    Points
    42
    Level
    1
    Points: 42, Level: 1
    Level completed: 84%, Points required for next Level: 8
    Overall activity: 4.0%


    Country: Sweden



    Don't know if this thread is still active but the list on the front page links here.
    On the front page list of Latin words existing in English but not in any Romance languages there's a number of errors:[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.8)] at a glance I see several words still extant in French: construire, exhilarant, ignition..[/COLOR]

  11. #11
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,536
    Points
    45,288
    Level
    65
    Points: 45,288, Level: 65
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 262
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    the different forms of some latin roots in modenr english are not only an english process but the fact that english loaned latin words (most of them intellectual, abstract) with more archaic form after having incorporated 'oïl' french latin words having underwent a complete romance ("roman") phonetic evolution yet -

  12. #12
    Elite member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-10-11
    Location
    Brittany
    Age
    71
    Posts
    4,536
    Points
    45,288
    Level
    65
    Points: 45,288, Level: 65
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 262
    Overall activity: 16.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    'venison' = fr- 'venaison'
    'prior' : nothing with this meaning but 'prieur' (clerical term of grade) - but 'priorité' < 'prior'

Similar Threads

  1. English words and nuances missing in French
    By Maciamo in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 24-01-20, 17:38
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-07-14, 23:32
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-10-11, 15:02
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-09-11, 09:31
  5. Words from old Germanic languages in modern English and Latin languages
    By Maciamo in forum European Culture & History
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 15-12-06, 13:05

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •