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Thread: Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

  1. #451
    Regular Member khufu's Avatar
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    need updates new studies vs old studies

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Steppe tribes, if by that you mean the people like Yamnaya and Catacomb culture, they were not blonde and blue-eyed. The only steppe tribes who had some lighter people were groups like Andronovo which come from a period 1000 years later and way to the east.

    I'm surprised a Greek hasn't read the Lazaridis paper from the Reich lab: Myceneaens were dark haired and dark eyed.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/
    It makes sense that Mycenaean people were not blonde and fair eyes. As long as they mingled heavily with the Neolithic natives there , mostly with females, they should be brown or black haired. The skin would have been white.

  3. #453
    Regular Member Piro Ilir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    All scientistic pappers say the oposite,

    wonder which papper is your source,

    Blonde and blue eyes was never a characteristic of Hellenic nation,
    Some of them probably were blonde, but anyway the overwhelming majority were in my opinion black and whether brown haired.

  4. #454
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    Утепление фундамента и отмостки

    Всем привет. Занялся утеплением фундамента и отмостки. укладываю ливневку и теперь задумался что она должна быть над пенопластом который лежит горизонтально. а я уложил ее под него и получается какбы мостик холода. Переделать еще есть возможность если это будет правильно.

  5. #455
    Regular Member Ralphie Boy's Avatar
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    A lot of Greeks today have brown and black hair and brown eyes, a “Mediterranean” look. It makes sense what was found in the Mycenaean study and supported by other studies—the Neolithic presence in modern people was not completely replaced by later invasions and settlements.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    A lot of Greeks today have brown and black hair and brown eyes, a “Mediterranean” look. It makes sense what was found in the Mycenaean study and supported by other studies—the Neolithic presence in modern people was not completely replaced by later invasions and settlements.
    The vast majority I'd say. A lot of Swedes have brown to dark brown hair and brown eyes makes more sense.

  7. #457
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
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    Is true really

  8. #458
    Junior Member goblinjames's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    The study comparing the Y-chromosome of the Madjar tribe from Kazakhstan to the Magyars of Hungary was leaded by a Jobbik activist, hence not worth a penny.

  9. #459
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    Illyrians r1a and i2a? What are you smoking pal, these are the ones responsible for moving the illyrians southward

  10. #460
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Avars were
    not listed by you.
    In and around the present-day Hungarian city of Debrecen, their khaganane was centered
    and their presence in the Carpathian Basin lasted until 800 AD for several centuries.
    The existence of the Huns was negligible in terms of the
    time spent there even when compared with that of the Avars.
    You also mention Hungary as a
    name derived from the name Hun.
    Since the Roman era and long after the fall
    of the empire, the region has been called Pannonia.
    The name Hungary is much younger and comes from the word On Ogur that the
    Bulgarians gave to the 10 Asian tribes that invaded the Carpathian Basin in 896 AD.
    As for the Mongol invasion of 1242, it lasted only 1 or 2 years, which in my view, is too short to leave
    any genetic trace in the population, although I agree that the country was almost depopulated, particularly the plains (probably inhabited by the Magyars).
    The highlands (Romania, Slovakia) gave the locals (Vlachs,
    Slavs) better refuge, so their population was largely sustained.

  11. #461
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamelano View Post
    The Avars were
    not listed by you.
    In and around the present-day Hungarian city of Debrecen, their khaganane was centered
    and their presence in the Carpathian Basin lasted until 800 AD for several centuries.
    The existence of the Huns was negligible in terms of the
    time spent there even when compared with that of the Avars.
    You also mention Hungary as a
    name derived from the name Hun.
    Since the Roman era and long after the fall
    of the empire, the region has been called Pannonia.
    The name Hungary is much younger and comes from the word On Ogur that the
    Bulgarians gave to the 10 Asian tribes that invaded the Carpathian Basin in 896 AD.
    As for the Mongol invasion of 1242, it lasted only 1 or 2 years, which in my view, is too short to leave
    any genetic trace in the population, although I agree that the country was almost depopulated, particularly the plains (probably inhabited by the Magyars).
    The highlands (Romania, Slovakia) gave the locals (Vlachs,
    Slavs) better refuge, so their population was largely sustained.
    As for , Pannonia was one of the main "illyrian" tribes along with Dalmatians ..................actually, in the 4 year long Illyrian revolt against Rome, 75% of the illyrian forces came from these 2 groups, ..... Dalmatians comprising of 50% of fighting men and Pannonia 25%
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  12. #462
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    How northern Ilyrians lost their land/y dna - all these cities were in northern balkans (Croatia to Montenegro) -

    "Illyricum was heavily colonized by the Romans beginning in the third century BC. The Romans founded the cities of Acruvium, Cibalae, Mursa, Narona, Siscia, and established colonies at Salona, Sirmium, Epidaurum, Aequum, Iader, Rhizon, and in many other cities. These cities were colonized by Roman war veterans. The Illyro-Roman also absorbed other tribes such as the Early Slavs, particularly in the Roman provinces of Dalmatia and Pannonia during the 7th century."

    Ilyrian Rhizon -
    "The invasions of the Avars and Slavs left the city deserted. The last reference of a bishop in Risan dates back to 595."
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizon

    This is why we have a lot more ilyrian y dna in southern regions of balkans instead of north, this is where they were settled in isolation to newcomers, some moved there from the north

  13. #463
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    Have we any updated, science based, Y-Haplogroup breakdowns of these ancient groups? Prior to the significant genetic mixing of all of the Balkan region and without ignorant "pure origin" nationalism displayed by so many folks/nations.

  14. #464
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by ImBooste View Post
    Have we any updated, science based, Y-Haplogroup breakdowns of these ancient groups? Prior to the significant genetic mixing of all of the Balkan region and without ignorant "pure origin" nationalism displayed by so many folks/nations.
    I've researched recently and I've only found that Vinča culture had some R1b y chromosome markers, that Illyrian period findings in Dalmatia and somewhere in Serbia had G2 haplogroups samples. In Greece it seems G2 and J haplogroup have been found in Minoan and Mycenian period remains, and show them to be related to a high degree, and their genetic continuity with modern Greeks. I found nothing more, is it possible that no one cares about Greek and Roman cultures if no one cares about other peoples in south-east Europe ?

    edit : Oh and there has been found n 2020 a grave yard in Serbia from a Roman period and they found remains of a black person. Also take a look if you care at the page of facebook. archeoserbia its rather nice

  15. #465
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    Hi, Newbie here. I see a lot of discussion about R1a and R1b as being in all these ancient cultures.

    But I'm R (R-M207) which is an ancestor branch of both R1a and R1b.

    Is that found in any of the ancient cultures?

  16. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis87 View Post
    I've researched recently and I've only found that Vinča culture had some R1b y chromosome markers, that Illyrian period findings in Dalmatia and somewhere in Serbia had G2 haplogroups samples. In Greece it seems G2 and J haplogroup have been found in Minoan and Mycenian period remains, and show them to be related to a high degree, and their genetic continuity with modern Greeks. I found nothing more, is it possible that no one cares about Greek and Roman cultures if no one cares about other peoples in south-east Europe ?
    edit : Oh and there has been found n 2020 a grave yard in Serbia from a Roman period and they found remains of a black person. Also take a look if you care at the page of facebook. archeoserbia its rather nice
    G2 in ancient illyria? Do you have a link?
    As far as I know j2b l283 and r1b z2103 have been found in illyrian period/area

  17. #467
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I have never gotten the importance people place on haplogroups. I do not know the subclades of the haplogroups of Maltese men but I know the base haplogroup of some surnames. Attard: E-V13, Schembri: J2, Agius: G2, Portelli: R1a, Zammit & Azzopardi & Cassar are subclades of R1b, Vella & Micallef are subclades of I2 and Borg (a common surname) is J1, I don't know the subclade. Of course not every Maltese male of those surnames has those haplogroups (NPE, adoptions, foundlings) but most do, which is surprising.

  18. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    G2 in ancient illyria? Do you have a link?
    As far as I know j2b l283 and r1b z2103 have been found in illyrian period/area
    Middle Bronze Age is not Illyrian period at all. Illyrians started to form in Late Bronze Age, and by Early Iron Age they were already formed as an ethnic group.

    So, we have no Y-DNA yet from classical period of Illyrians. We have some leaks from Thracians, and some from Anatolian Greeks (Empuries).

  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    Middle Bronze Age is not Illyrian period at all. Illyrians started to form in Late Bronze Age, and by Early Iron Age they were already formed as an ethnic group.
    So, we have no Y-DNA yet from classical period of Illyrians. We have some leaks from Thracians, and some from Anatolian Greeks (Empuries).
    Its always good to give a few hundred years leeway for this kind of thing because

    1. Old written history is not always accurate
    2. It has been carried to the modern age innacurately
    3. Ancient dna isnt always perfectly predicted

    What are the thracian and greek leaks if you dont mind sharing?

  20. #470
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzie View Post
    I have never gotten the importance people place on haplogroups. I do not know the subclades of the haplogroups of Maltese men but I know the base haplogroup of some surnames. Attard: E-V13, Schembri: J2, Agius: G2, Portelli: R1a, Zammit & Azzopardi & Cassar are subclades of R1b, Vella & Micallef are subclades of I2 and Borg (a common surname) is J1, I don't know the subclade. Of course not every Maltese male of those surnames has those haplogroups (NPE, adoptions, foundlings) but most do, which is surprising.
    Interesting
    As you are maltese you probably memberin
    The maltese dna project ( which is close to non-maltese)
    Can you have a look about the e1b1b branches there are all of them e-v13 or there some
    e-m81?
    Regards
    Adam

    P.s
    I am asking because i know about a confirmed member of e-m81 in e3b project with maltese heritage ...
    I Don't post his surname here ( from privacy matter)
    Sefhardi, aschenazi, bulgarian
    die Überlebenden
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y62418/
    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/
    k12b ancient
    Closest:
    3.30708331
    R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietrophenotype: east med with pontic vibe

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