Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 3 of 19 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 453

Thread: Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

  1. #51
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    21-07-09
    Posts
    114


    Country: Netherlands



    But I do not understand how it is possible that the Indo-Europeans who moved to West-
    Europe, had mongoloid traits. So northwest Europeans also have mongoloid ancestors?

  2. #52
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Marianne's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-03-09
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    260


    Country: Greece



    Well northwest Europeans, as every other European, didn't "grow" suddenly in the fields and trees of Northwest Europe. They came from somewhere and that was Asia. There was mixing within Europe but all Europeans have Asian ancestors and according to the Out-of-Africa theory we all have African ancestors.

    I don't understand why it is so surprising for you.

  3. #53
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    21-07-09
    Posts
    114


    Country: Netherlands



    But you do not see any mongoloid traits with the Netherlands and
    Danes. I suppose that they are the purest nordic and falish people.
    Really germanic.

  4. #54
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,661
    Points
    15,281
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,281, Level: 37
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    But you do not see any mongoloid traits with the Netherlands and
    Danes. I suppose that they are the purest nordic and falish people.
    Really germanic.
    And what 'pure Nordic' is supposed to mean ??
    Mongoloids traits are not just slanted eyes. Plus, thousands of years of evolution and interbreeding with the natives pre-Indoeuropeans and Near-easterns, this mongoloid traits have disappeared

  5. #55
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,691
    Points
    688,579
    Level
    100
    Points: 688,579, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    But you do not see any mongoloid traits with the Netherlands and
    Danes. I suppose that they are the purest nordic and falish people.
    Really germanic.
    Actually all Scandinavians all slight Mongoloid traits. It is more marked in some regions, like Gotland island or northern Sweden. There is a substantial amount of Siberian haplogroups in Scandinavia (e.g. 7% of N1c1 and 0.5% of Q in Sweden, and up to 5% of mtDNA A, C and D). Some places invaded by the Vikings, like Orkney, have more haplogroup Q than in modern Scandinavia, so Vikings could have been more Mongoloid-looking too. Actually, we could go as far as to say that Mongoloid DNA is what distinguishes Nordic people from other Europeans. Finland and Baltic countries, which have the highest percentage of both fair hair and blue eyes have the highest percentage of Siberian haplogroups (60% of Y-DNA in Finland).

    Physical traits can change fast. Skeletons from Europeans 2000 years ago are quite different from that of modern Europeans. In the 10,000 year explosion, the author explains that people back then often had strong brow ridges, a trait that has nearly completely disappeared in modern Europeans.
    My book selection---Follow me on Facebook and Twitter --- My profile on Academia.edu and on ResearchGate ----Check Wa-pedia's Japan Guide
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.

  6. #56
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Cambrius (The Red)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    27-06-09
    Posts
    2,640
    Points
    12,808
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,808, Level: 34
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 542
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b (RL-21*)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

    Ethnic group
    Gallaecian Celtic
    Country: USA - Ohio



    Many people seem to have a distorted idea of what the term Nordic entails, racially. No different than for many other ethnicities around the world. The word "pure" should never be used to define any ethnicity / race.

  7. #57
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    21-07-09
    Posts
    114


    Country: Netherlands



    Many thanks for these interesting information. But I can imagine myself
    that mongoloid traits are found in Russia, Finland or Lappland. How are
    these traits with the Scandinavians caused? By contacts with Finns
    or Sami?

    Are these mongoloid traits found with the Danes, Germans and Dutch too?
    It is a difficult thing for me to understand it. Swedish people with so
    pure fair (even flaxen or red) hair have mongoloid ancestors! You only can expect it with the Hungarians, Slavic and Finnish peoples.

  8. #58
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    21-07-09
    Posts
    114


    Country: Netherlands



    And browrigdes: this is characteristic for farmers and sailors at the
    North Sea (Friesland, north Germany and Jutland). Probably descendants
    of the Bruenn/Aurignac and Borreby men who lived in southwest France
    during the Ice Age. See Coon: Races of the Europe (chapter the Netherlands).

    A joke: Virchow (a German anthropologist 19e century,thought that he saw real Neanderthalers in the Dutch province of Friesland).

  9. #59
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Marianne's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-03-09
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    260


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    Many thanks for these interesting information. But I can imagine myself
    that mongoloid traits are found in Russia, Finland or Lappland. How are
    these traits with the Scandinavians caused? By contacts with Finns
    or Sami?

    Are these mongoloid traits found with the Danes, Germans and Dutch too?
    It is a difficult thing for me to understand it. Swedish people with so
    pure fair (even flaxen or red) hair have mongoloid ancestors! You only can expect it with the Hungarians, Slavic and Finnish peoples.
    Well according to this table here http://www.eupedia.com/europe/europe...logroups.shtml there is 1% N1c1 and 0.5% Q in Germany (with North Germany having 2% Q and 1.5% N1c1), 1,5% N1c1 in Denmark and 0.5% N1c1 and 0.5% in The Netherlands so there is some Siberian admixture in these countries.

  10. #60
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    21-07-09
    Posts
    114


    Country: Netherlands



    I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
    people. I suppose that you find these traits only in the Russians.
    I should like to see such mongoloid slits in Swedes or Dutch.

  11. #61
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Wilhelm's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-10-09
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,661
    Points
    15,281
    Level
    37
    Points: 15,281, Level: 37
    Level completed: 54%, Points required for next Level: 369
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-S26
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1

    Ethnic group
    Celtiberians
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
    people. I suppose that you find these traits only in the Russians.
    I should like to see such mongoloid slits in Swedes or Dutch.
    I would like to know what "real" germanic means. There is no such thing REAL
    Germanic countries also have Q and N
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 16-01-10 at 01:59.

  12. #62
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points
    Marianne's Avatar
    Join Date
    24-03-09
    Location
    Athens
    Posts
    260


    Country: Greece



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
    people. I suppose that you find these traits only in the Russians.
    I should like to see such mongoloid slits in Swedes or Dutch.
    I don't understand why you keep supposing that only Russians have such traits since DNA tests tell you differently.

    The Y-DNA table on the site is not made by assumptions but by scientific data and it shows that Scandinavians have Siberian admixture and also they have J-E-G haplogroups, that are found all over in Europe.

  13. #63
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    13-09-09
    Posts
    65


    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    Many thanks for these interesting information. But I can imagine myself
    that mongoloid traits are found in Russia, Finland or Lappland. How are
    these traits with the Scandinavians caused? By contacts with Finns
    or Sami?.
    All the R1-M173 Eurasids (majority of Europeans today) came from Asia. The ones that came from Anatolia mixed with native Near Easterners first so their Eurasid children looked more assimilated & later mixed with native R1-M173 Europids & other Neolithic farmers so they were more assimilated than those who entered directly from the Eurasian Steppe.

    In gneral all R1-M173 Eurasids picked more native traits as they moved into Western Europe thats why Western European Eurasids are the least "East Asian " looking

  14. #64
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,691
    Points
    688,579
    Level
    100
    Points: 688,579, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by Genocentrist View Post
    All the R1-M173 Eurasids (majority of Europeans today) came from Asia. The ones that came from Anatolia mixed with native Near Easterners first so their Eurasid children looked more assimilated & later mixed with native R1-M173 Europids & other Neolithic farmers so they were more assimilated than those who entered directly from the Eurasian Steppe.

    In gneral all R1-M173 Eurasids picked more native traits as they moved into Western Europe thats why Western European Eurasids are the least "East Asian " looking
    I agree with that.

  15. #65
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1 year registered1000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    25-01-10
    Posts
    11


    Country: Ukraine



    I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
    people.
    James Carville


    Zack Ward


    Emily Browning

    Gary McKinnon

    Jodie Kidd

  16. #66
    Landlord Achievements:
    3 months registered

    Join Date
    06-01-10
    Posts
    52


    Country: United States



    north euros have east asian dna? some nordics do have higher cheekbones or smaller narrow eyes! i noticed! i think that the big eyed long nose races were from arabs africa or south asia! nordics are part finnic uralic possibly! people i seen with the biggest eyes are almost always south asians! they have huge eyes and longer nose they are the opposite of east asian! people in italy and greece got huge big eyes as well not as big as india indians or mid easterns though!

  17. #67
    Baron Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-02-10
    Location
    Palais de l'Elysée
    Posts
    231
    Points
    4,344
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,344, Level: 19
    Level completed: 24%, Points required for next Level: 306
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
    Schwaben
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The Hungarians

    Modern Hungarians are virtually undistinguishable from their Austrian and Slovak neighbours in terms of Y-chromosome haplogroups.

    But Hungary is a notoriously difficult country for Y-DNA proportions. Percentages tend to vary widely from one study to another, depending on the regional populations sampled. Some studies have found over 60% of R1a in Hungary, although the average if half that figure. Some villages have a small percentage of CentralNorth Asian haplogroups N, Q or C, but they are otherwise quite rare. Interestingly neighbouring countries like Austria, Slovakia and Ukraine appear to have more C, Q and N than Hungary.

    Hungary has a peculiar history due to its geography - a vast plain surrounded by mountains on every side (the Alps and the Carpathians). In Neolithic times, it was at the centre of the Danubian cultures, which was composed of E-V13 farmers from Thessaly and I2 hunter-gatherers (soon converted to farming). Then came the Slavic invasion (around 3,000 BCE), followed by the Proto-Italo-Celts and Alpine Celts (2,000 BCE to 200 BCE), who brought respectively R1a and R1b to the region.

    Hungary was named after the Huns, who invaded Europe from 370 CE and partly settled in the Pannonian plain (now known as Hungarian plain). It isn't sure where the Huns came from, but it is generally believed that they descended from the Xiongnu peoples of Mongolia. They were a confederation and included various ethnic group under Hunnic leadership. It is likely that there were many R1a peoples (e.g. Scythians) from the Eurasian Steppe. The Huns themselves may have been an admixture of haplogroup Q and C. However less than 2% of the modern population belong to Q and C combined.

    The next invaders were the Magyar, a Finno-Ugric people who arrived in Europe in the 9th century, and settled in Hungary in the 10th. Hungarian language is actually a descendant of Magyar, not Hunnic, despite the misleading name in "Hun-". The Magyar came from Central Asia, and are related to the modern Bashkirs of Russia. Modern Bashkirs have about 35% of haplogroup R1b1b2, 26% of R1a, 17% of N1c and 13% of R1b1b1. However, they were conquered by the Mongols, which may account for all the haplogroup C. In fact, the presence of C in Europe is usually attributed exclusively to the Mongols, and C is almost non-existent in Hungary anyway.

    A study compared the Y-chromosome of the Madjar tribe from Kazakhstan to the Magyars of Hungary, and found that some G lineages were related. The article doesn't specify the subcalde, but G1 is the dominant strain in Kazakhstan, and is also found in Hungary (but normally not elsewhere in Europe).

    Another study compared the Y-DNA of Hungarians with other Finno-Ugric-speaking populations in order to understand why modern Hungarians have so little of the typical Uralic haplogroup N1c. They tested a few individuals from a 10th-century cemetery found out that half of the individuals belonged to N1c. The sample was small, and maybe "pure" Magyar, but it nonetheless suggests that the original Magyar had much more N1c than modern Hungarians.

    The Magyar population is thought to have suffered considerably from the 13th-century Mongol invasion of Europe, and from the 16th-century war against the Ottomans. Hungary was repopulated in great number by ethnic Germans/Austrians, which explains why modern Hungary is closest to Austria for its Y-DNA composition.

    From all this can be deduced that the original Magyars were an admixture of N1c and R1a (predominant), with some G1, and maybe some R1b.

    As haplogroup Q is neither associated with the Magyars not with the Mongols, it must be either be of Hunnic origin, or from other Asian tribes part of the various invaders from the steppes.
    I don't think
    Nico

  18. #68
    Baron Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-02-10
    Location
    Palais de l'Elysée
    Posts
    231
    Points
    4,344
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,344, Level: 19
    Level completed: 24%, Points required for next Level: 306
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
    Schwaben
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I agree with that.
    I am not !!!!

  19. #69
    Baron Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran
    willy's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-02-10
    Location
    Palais de l'Elysée
    Posts
    231
    Points
    4,344
    Level
    19
    Points: 4,344, Level: 19
    Level completed: 24%, Points required for next Level: 306
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    N-Tat

    Ethnic group
    Schwaben
    Country: France



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Physical traits can change fast.

    Yes but not so fast

  20. #70
    בלי עין הרע Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Semitic Duwa's Avatar
    Join Date
    03-03-10
    Location
    BEHIND YOUR HOUSE WITH A FLAME-THROWER
    Posts
    210
    Points
    5,455
    Level
    21
    Points: 5,455, Level: 21
    Level completed: 81%, Points required for next Level: 95
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J1-Z18271 (Kohen)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5

    Ethnic group
    Half-Jewish (paternal) & Half-British (maternal)
    Country: France



    Babylonians were Amorites: J1c3-P58+.

    Same clade for Assyrians.

  21. #71
    Satyavrata Achievements:
    Three FriendsRecommendation First ClassVeteran50000 Experience PointsTagger First Class
    Maciamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    17-07-02
    Location
    Lothier
    Posts
    8,691
    Points
    688,579
    Level
    100
    Points: 688,579, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 13.0%


    Ethnic group
    Italo-celto-germanic
    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    I don't think
    That's for this brilliant refutal. That was very instructive.

  22. #72
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Cambrius (The Red)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    27-06-09
    Posts
    2,640
    Points
    12,808
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,808, Level: 34
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 542
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b (RL-21*)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

    Ethnic group
    Gallaecian Celtic
    Country: USA - Ohio



    Quote Originally Posted by Haganus View Post
    But I do not understand how it is possible that the Indo-Europeans who moved to West-
    Europe, had mongoloid traits. So northwest Europeans also have mongoloid ancestors?

    Of course they do. Read an introductory population genetics textbook...

  23. #73
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Created Album picturesVeteran5000 Experience Points
    Eochaidh's Avatar
    Join Date
    28-01-10
    Posts
    92
    Points
    8,197
    Level
    27
    Points: 8,197, Level: 27
    Level completed: 8%, Points required for next Level: 553
    Overall activity: 1.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-M222>A725>S676
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H4a1a4b

    Ethnic group
    Insular Celtic
    Country: USA - Pennsylvania



    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    Of course they do. Read an introductory population genetics textbook...
    I was about to ask for recommendations for books, but then I remembered that Maciamo has some already posted. For reference, they are here: eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25272

    Also, the pictures posted below, look like Irish people. That kind of narrow eyes is pretty common there and even in my family.

  24. #74
    Junior Member Achievements:
    3 months registered

    Join Date
    15-04-10
    Location
    Geneva
    Posts
    1

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Rb1

    Ethnic group
    Italy
    Country: Switzerland



    Maciamo, do you know the haplogroup of the old picenian people who where living in the Marche region of Italy ?
    Thanks
    R.

  25. #75
    Regular Member Achievements:
    Three FriendsVeteran10000 Experience Points
    Cambrius (The Red)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    27-06-09
    Posts
    2,640
    Points
    12,808
    Level
    34
    Points: 12,808, Level: 34
    Level completed: 23%, Points required for next Level: 542
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b (RL-21*)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

    Ethnic group
    Gallaecian Celtic
    Country: USA - Ohio



    Quote Originally Posted by Eochaidh View Post
    I was about to ask for recommendations for books, but then I remembered that Maciamo has some already posted. For reference, they are here: eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25272

    Also, the pictures posted below, look like Irish people. That kind of narrow eyes is pretty common there and even in my family.
    Some of the individuals in the pics don't seem to have a "mongoloid look". I know James Carville personally and he certainly does have a mongoloid strain.

    You won't find much in terms of mongoloid features among the Irish. Certainly, nothing very pronounced, I believe.

Page 3 of 19 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Predicted haplogroups of early Middle Eastern civilizations
    By Maciamo in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 13-07-15, 19:21
  2. Haplogroups and Civilizations
    By motatalea in forum Y-DNA Haplogroups
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 15-04-13, 19:19
  3. Matching Ancient languages with Ancient tribes
    By zanipolo in forum Linguistics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 24-07-11, 01:19
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 28-04-11, 18:41
  5. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 25-07-10, 19:00

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •