Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
people. I suppose that you find these traits only in the Russians.
I should like to see such mongoloid slits in Swedes or Dutch.
I would like to know what "real" germanic means. There is no such thing REAL
Germanic countries also have Q and N
 
Last edited:
I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
people. I suppose that you find these traits only in the Russians.
I should like to see such mongoloid slits in Swedes or Dutch.

I don't understand why you keep supposing that only Russians have such traits since DNA tests tell you differently.

The Y-DNA table on the site is not made by assumptions but by scientific data and it shows that Scandinavians have Siberian admixture and also they have J-E-G haplogroups, that are found all over in Europe.
 
Many thanks for these interesting information. But I can imagine myself
that mongoloid traits are found in Russia, Finland or Lappland. How are
these traits with the Scandinavians caused? By contacts with Finns
or Sami?.

All the R1-M173 Eurasids (majority of Europeans today) came from Asia. The ones that came from Anatolia mixed with native Near Easterners first so their Eurasid children looked more assimilated & later mixed with native R1-M173 Europids & other Neolithic farmers so they were more assimilated than those who entered directly from the Eurasian Steppe.

In gneral all R1-M173 Eurasids picked more native traits as they moved into Western Europe thats why Western European Eurasids are the least "East Asian :grin:" looking
 
All the R1-M173 Eurasids (majority of Europeans today) came from Asia. The ones that came from Anatolia mixed with native Near Easterners first so their Eurasid children looked more assimilated & later mixed with native R1-M173 Europids & other Neolithic farmers so they were more assimilated than those who entered directly from the Eurasian Steppe.

In gneral all R1-M173 Eurasids picked more native traits as they moved into Western Europe thats why Western European Eurasids are the least "East Asian :grin:" looking

I agree with that.
 
I still have difficulties to accept mongoloid traits in real nordic and Germanic
people.
James Carville
James_Carville3.jpg


Zack Ward
Zack_Ward3.jpg


Emily Browning
browningnormal_34.jpg
browningnormal_344.jpg

Gary McKinnon
McKinnon_wideweb__430x275.jpg

Jodie Kidd
jodikidd.jpg
 
north euros have east asian dna? some nordics do have higher cheekbones or smaller narrow eyes! i noticed! i think that the big eyed long nose races were from arabs africa or south asia! nordics are part finnic uralic possibly! people i seen with the biggest eyes are almost always south asians! they have huge eyes and longer nose they are the opposite of east asian! people in italy and greece got huge big eyes as well not as big as india indians or mid easterns though!
 
The Hungarians

Modern Hungarians are virtually undistinguishable from their Austrian and Slovak neighbours in terms of Y-chromosome haplogroups.

But Hungary is a notoriously difficult country for Y-DNA proportions. Percentages tend to vary widely from one study to another, depending on the regional populations sampled. Some studies have found over 60% of R1a in Hungary, although the average if half that figure. Some villages have a small percentage of CentralNorth Asian haplogroups N, Q or C, but they are otherwise quite rare. Interestingly neighbouring countries like Austria, Slovakia and Ukraine appear to have more C, Q and N than Hungary.

Hungary has a peculiar history due to its geography - a vast plain surrounded by mountains on every side (the Alps and the Carpathians). In Neolithic times, it was at the centre of the Danubian cultures, which was composed of E-V13 farmers from Thessaly and I2 hunter-gatherers (soon converted to farming). Then came the Slavic invasion (around 3,000 BCE), followed by the Proto-Italo-Celts and Alpine Celts (2,000 BCE to 200 BCE), who brought respectively R1a and R1b to the region.

Hungary was named after the Huns, who invaded Europe from 370 CE and partly settled in the Pannonian plain (now known as Hungarian plain). It isn't sure where the Huns came from, but it is generally believed that they descended from the Xiongnu peoples of Mongolia. They were a confederation and included various ethnic group under Hunnic leadership. It is likely that there were many R1a peoples (e.g. Scythians) from the Eurasian Steppe. The Huns themselves may have been an admixture of haplogroup Q and C. However less than 2% of the modern population belong to Q and C combined.

The next invaders were the Magyar, a Finno-Ugric people who arrived in Europe in the 9th century, and settled in Hungary in the 10th. Hungarian language is actually a descendant of Magyar, not Hunnic, despite the misleading name in "Hun-". The Magyar came from Central Asia, and are related to the modern Bashkirs of Russia. Modern Bashkirs have about 35% of haplogroup R1b1b2, 26% of R1a, 17% of N1c and 13% of R1b1b1. However, they were conquered by the Mongols, which may account for all the haplogroup C. In fact, the presence of C in Europe is usually attributed exclusively to the Mongols, and C is almost non-existent in Hungary anyway.

A study compared the Y-chromosome of the Madjar tribe from Kazakhstan to the Magyars of Hungary, and found that some G lineages were related. The article doesn't specify the subcalde, but G1 is the dominant strain in Kazakhstan, and is also found in Hungary (but normally not elsewhere in Europe).

Another study compared the Y-DNA of Hungarians with other Finno-Ugric-speaking populations in order to understand why modern Hungarians have so little of the typical Uralic haplogroup N1c. They tested a few individuals from a 10th-century cemetery found out that half of the individuals belonged to N1c. The sample was small, and maybe "pure" Magyar, but it nonetheless suggests that the original Magyar had much more N1c than modern Hungarians.

The Magyar population is thought to have suffered considerably from the 13th-century Mongol invasion of Europe, and from the 16th-century war against the Ottomans. Hungary was repopulated in great number by ethnic Germans/Austrians, which explains why modern Hungary is closest to Austria for its Y-DNA composition.

From all this can be deduced that the original Magyars were an admixture of N1c and R1a (predominant), with some G1, and maybe some R1b.

As haplogroup Q is neither associated with the Magyars not with the Mongols, it must be either be of Hunnic origin, or from other Asian tribes part of the various invaders from the steppes.

I don't think
 
But I do not understand how it is possible that the Indo-Europeans who moved to West-
Europe, had mongoloid traits. So northwest Europeans also have mongoloid ancestors?


Of course they do. Read an introductory population genetics textbook...
 
Of course they do. Read an introductory population genetics textbook...

I was about to ask for recommendations for books, but then I remembered that Maciamo has some already posted. For reference, they are here: eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25272

Also, the pictures posted below, look like Irish people. That kind of narrow eyes is pretty common there and even in my family.
 
Maciamo, do you know the haplogroup of the old picenian people who where living in the Marche region of Italy ?
Thanks
R.
 
I was about to ask for recommendations for books, but then I remembered that Maciamo has some already posted. For reference, they are here: eupedia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25272

Also, the pictures posted below, look like Irish people. That kind of narrow eyes is pretty common there and even in my family.

Some of the individuals in the pics don't seem to have a "mongoloid look". I know James Carville personally and he certainly does have a mongoloid strain.

You won't find much in terms of mongoloid features among the Irish. Certainly, nothing very pronounced, I believe.
 
Some of the individuals in the pics don't seem to have a "mongoloid look". I know James Carville personally and he certainly does have a mongoloid strain.

You won't find much in terms of mongoloid features among the Irish. Certainly, nothing very pronounced, I believe.
I didn't mean to imply that I think that the Irish had many mongoloid features, but rather that I think that the reason that people might look at pictures like these and think that they do is because of the narrow, deep set eyes.

Now Carville is another story. Interestingly, the name Carville is not uncommon in that part of Ireland where the Eochaidhs lived. It is Norman and probably came with John de Courcy on his tour of Ireland in 1177.

An American Carville bought an old Norman Castle called Darver Castle in that area and turned it into a hotel. An example of backwards migration.

It would be interesting to know James Carville's ancestry because he does have a unique look to him.
 
And browrigdes: this is characteristic for farmers and sailors at the
North Sea (Friesland, north Germany and Jutland). Probably descendants
of the Bruenn/Aurignac and Borreby men who lived in southwest France
during the Ice Age. See Coon: Races of the Europe (chapter the Netherlands).

A joke: Virchow (a German anthropologist 19e century,thought that he saw real Neanderthalers in the Dutch province of Friesland).

I wouldn't use Coon as a reference for much of anything. The man was a racist and produced research that was methodologically dubious, particularly when it came to peoples outside of Northern Europe. Coon was forced out of the American Anthropological Association (AAA) essentially for naked racism. He collaborated closely with one of the biggest racists of the 1960's, his cousin, the infamous Carleton Putnam. Carleton Coon has been so thoroughly disgraced that at least one major encyclopedia has removed his biography.
 
Maciamo, do you have the studies that link Cro-Magnon man with haplogroups I or IJ ?
 
...

The ancient Celts
It is now believed that the ancient Celts were by a very large majority R1b people. Many subclades of R1b divide the various geographic groups of Celts. 2500 years ago, British and Irish Celts belonged mostly to the subclade R1b-L21. Celts from Iberia and south-west Gaul were R1b-M167, while the other Gauls, from central France to southern Germany to northern Italy, belonged to R1b-U152. Further subgroups exist for all these clades (see Origins of European haplogroups).
.....

Please reconsider the description of the Gauls of central and northern France and southern Germany as being more than R-U152.

France may have the largest population of R-L21*, period. It has not been identified until the last year and a half or so but still a lot of R-L21 folks are showing up in France and southern Germany. Perhaps there are more R-L21* in France than R-U152.

Please note that when I normalized the data RMS2 pulled from FTDNA's Ancestral Origins database, France appears to be the major source of R-L21.

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=357836&postcount=12
Mikewww said:
Among the countries listed below, here is the total normalized population of R-L21* expected per country as a proportion of all of the below countries:

Ireland 8% (of the total)
Scotland 4%
Wales 5%
England 21% (so England is the biggest R-L21* country in the Isles)
Germany 13%
France 49% (that's right, France is large state that is under tested)
 
You minimize J1's frequency amongst Semitic Na7rainids.

Modern studies on Assyrians show that at least 60% of them belong to J1c3d (L147+).

Considering that the surroundings mainstream "arabic" populations along with Marsh arabs are J2, it is reasonable to conclude that Babylonians along with Assyrians and Akadians were J1c3d (L147+) at their core.
 

This thread has been viewed 700096 times.

Back
Top