Y-DNA haplogroups of ancient civilizations

Greece today is not more Turkic. It is more Balkanic due to the balkan migrations during the middle-ages. Most mainland Greeks have balkanic admixture while many Anatolian Greeks descend from ancient indigenous populations of Anatolia. But to a significant extent Greeks descend from ancient Greeks. I can show you my gedmatch results which are representative for southern mainland Greeks.
Proto-Greeks were a steppe tribe so I suppose they were blonde with blue eyes. When they arrived in Greece during Bronze Age they mixed with the local neolithic mediterranean populations and they created the ancient Greek people. Haplogroups of the majority of the modern Greeks are from those neolithic populations. There were not only blonde ancient Greeks many of them had brown hair and eyes like Greek people today.

Steppe tribes, if by that you mean the people like Yamnaya and Catacomb culture, they were not blonde and blue-eyed. The only steppe tribes who had some lighter people were groups like Andronovo which come from a period 1000 years later and way to the east.

I'm surprised a Greek hasn't read the Lazaridis paper from the Reich lab: Myceneaens were dark haired and dark eyed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/
 
What I know is that the myceneaens descended from the steppes but until they arrive to Greece they mixed with other populations so they had steppe admixture but less than their ancestors in Yamnaya. Furthermore I think that the myceneaens in Greece mixed quickly with the local neolithic population and everyone is considered myceneaen so we are talking about a population with low steppe admixture. But yes their ancestors in Steppes were relatives to Indo-Iranians so they were blond. What I am looking for is about their haplogroups. They were R1b, J2a R1a-Z93?
 
Greece today is not more Turkic. It is more Balkanic due to the balkan migrations during the middle-ages. Most mainland Greeks have balkanic admixture while many Anatolian Greeks descend from ancient indigenous populations of Anatolia. But to a significant extent Greeks descend from ancient Greeks. I can show you my gedmatch results which are representative for southern mainland Greeks.
Proto-Greeks were a steppe tribe so I suppose they were blonde with blue eyes. When they arrived in Greece during Bronze Age they mixed with the local neolithic mediterranean populations and they created the ancient Greek people. Haplogroups of the majority of the modern Greeks are from those neolithic populations. There were not only blonde ancient Greeks many of them had brown hair and eyes like Greek people today.


All scientistic pappers say the oposite,

wonder which papper is your source,

Blonde and blue eyes was never a characteristic of Hellenic nation,
 
What I know is that the myceneaens descended from the steppes but until they arrive to Greece they mixed with other populations so they had steppe admixture but less than their ancestors in Yamnaya. Furthermore I think that the myceneaens in Greece mixed quickly with the local neolithic population and everyone is considered myceneaen so we are talking about a population with low steppe admixture. But yes their ancestors in Steppes were relatives to Indo-Iranians so they were blond. What I am looking for is about their haplogroups. They were R1b, J2a R1a-Z93?


Myceneans have nothing to do with Steppes,
the last papper of Lazarides is clear,

and NO

it is diefferent think the Indo-Iranian,
and different the Greaco-Aryan,

R1b might not existed in Myceneans,
as for R1a found in the lands of proto-Greek area
still is under discuss its origin,


in fact Myceneans might be origined from South Caucas area-Armenia, and never mixed with steppe,
since have the lowest steppe admixture of steppe admixture.
 
Myceneans have nothing to do with Steppes,
the last papper of Lazarides is clear,

and NO

it is diefferent think the Indo-Iranian,
and different the Greaco-Aryan,

R1b might not existed in Myceneans,
as for R1a found in the lands of proto-Greek area
still is under discuss its origin,


in fact Myceneans might be origined from South Caucas area-Armenia, and never mixed with steppe,
since have the lowest steppe admixture of steppe admixture.
Myceneaens had some steppe admixture. Probably before they arrive in Greece they mixed with other populations and this is why they had J2a lineages. This is what we can find in eupedia:
The Mycenaean culture commenced circa 1650 BCE and is clearly an imported steppe culture. The close relationship between Mycenaean and Proto-Indo-Iranian languages suggest that they split fairly late, some time between 2500 and 2000 BCE. Archeologically, Mycenaean chariots, spearheads, daggers and other bronze objects show striking similarities with the Seima-Turbino culture (c. 1900-1600 BCE) of the northern Russian forest-steppes, known for the great mobility of its nomadic warriors (Seima-Turbino sites were found as far away as Mongolia). It is therefore likely that the Mycenaean descended from Russia to Greece between 1900 and 1650 BCE, where they intermingled with the locals to create a new unique Greek culture.

And this is what the paper of Lazaridis mention:
could model Mycenaeans as a mixture of the Anatolian Neolithic and Chalcolithic-to-Bronze Age populations from Armenia (Table 1). Populations from Armenia possessed some ancestry related to eastern European hunter-gatherers4, so they, or similar unsampled populations of western Asia, could have contributed it to populations of the Aegean. This model makes geographical sense, since a population movement from the vicinity of Armenia could have admixed with Anatolian Neolithic-related farmers on either side of the Aegean. However, Mycenaeans can also be modelled as a mixture of Minoans and Bronze Age steppe populations (Table 1; Supplementary Information, section 2), suggesting that, alternatively, ‘eastern’ ancestry arrived in both Crete and mainland Greece, followed by ~13–18% admixture with a ‘northern’ steppe population in mainland Greece only. Such a scenario is also plausible

So he pinpoints ancestry from north-east europe and he examines the possible alternatives but he does not reject the steppes scenario.


My haplogroup is R-F2935 which is a subclade of R1a-Z93. There is mostly in Europe. I have been told that this subclade is Scythian/Sarmatian or Proto-Greek or even Thracian because it is believed that Proto-Greeks and Thracians had some steppe lineages.
 
@xri34

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/34414-Genetic-Origins-of-Minoans-and-Mycenaeans

maybe you already have read it,
but it is a good point to philosophed the genettics of Myceneans

and until now no Rib found in early Greece.
as also the most ancient population of Greek space are the sarakatsanoi. (I1)
while Kleitos sample is G2
The link does not argue something different than what I am saying. I1 is palaiolithic and G2a neolithic in Greece so it makes sense. How did R1b arrive in Greece according to you?
 
True. Native Europeans should be studied with more vigor and determination...
 
The link does not argue something different than what I am saying. I1 is palaiolithic and G2a neolithic in Greece so it makes sense. How did R1b arrive in Greece according to you?

It depends on which R1b

The Anatolian one
or the West European ones?
 
need updates new studies vs old studies
 
Steppe tribes, if by that you mean the people like Yamnaya and Catacomb culture, they were not blonde and blue-eyed. The only steppe tribes who had some lighter people were groups like Andronovo which come from a period 1000 years later and way to the east.

I'm surprised a Greek hasn't read the Lazaridis paper from the Reich lab: Myceneaens were dark haired and dark eyed.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5565772/

It makes sense that Mycenaean people were not blonde and fair eyes. As long as they mingled heavily with the Neolithic natives there , mostly with females, they should be brown or black haired. The skin would have been white.
 
All scientistic pappers say the oposite,

wonder which papper is your source,

Blonde and blue eyes was never a characteristic of Hellenic nation,

Some of them probably were blonde, but anyway the overwhelming majority were in my opinion black and whether brown haired.
 
Утепление фундамента и отмостки

Всем привет. Занялся утеплением фундамента и отмостки. укладываю ливневку и теперь задумался что она должна быть над пенопластом который лежит горизонтально. а я уложил ее под него и получается какбы мостик холода. Переделать еще есть возможность если это будет правильно.
 
A lot of Greeks today have brown and black hair and brown eyes, a “Mediterranean” look. It makes sense what was found in the Mycenaean study and supported by other studies—the Neolithic presence in modern people was not completely replaced by later invasions and settlements.
 
A lot of Greeks today have brown and black hair and brown eyes, a “Mediterranean” look. It makes sense what was found in the Mycenaean study and supported by other studies—the Neolithic presence in modern people was not completely replaced by later invasions and settlements.
The vast majority I'd say. A lot of Swedes have brown to dark brown hair and brown eyes makes more sense.
 
Is true really
 
The study comparing the Y-chromosome of the Madjar tribe from Kazakhstan to the Magyars of Hungary was leaded by a Jobbik activist, hence not worth a penny.
 
Illyrians r1a and i2a? What are you smoking pal, these are the ones responsible for moving the illyrians southward
 
The Avars were
not listed by you.
In and around the present-day Hungarian city of Debrecen, their khaganane was centered
and their presence in the Carpathian Basin lasted until 800 AD for several centuries.
The existence of the Huns was negligible in terms of the
time spent there even when compared with that of the Avars.
You also mention Hungary as a
name derived from the name Hun.
Since the Roman era and long after the fall
of the empire, the region has been called Pannonia.
The name Hungary is much younger and comes from the word On Ogur that the
Bulgarians gave to the 10 Asian tribes that invaded the Carpathian Basin in 896 AD.
As for the Mongol invasion of 1242, it lasted only 1 or 2 years, which in my view, is too short to leave
any genetic trace in the population, although I agree that the country was almost depopulated, particularly the plains (probably inhabited by the Magyars).
The highlands (Romania, Slovakia) gave the locals (Vlachs,
Slavs) better refuge, so their population was largely sustained.

As for , Pannonia was one of the main "illyrian" tribes along with Dalmatians ..................actually, in the 4 year long Illyrian revolt against Rome, 75% of the illyrian forces came from these 2 groups, ..... Dalmatians comprising of 50% of fighting men and Pannonia 25%
 

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