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Thread: Study shows that IQ decreases with religiosity

  1. #101
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    It really depends. I don't think IQ is highly influenced by genes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    It really depends. I don't think IQ is highly influenced by genes.
    No?! What is IQ of monkey or a mouse?
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firetown View Post
    Why do we assume that Hitler was intelligent? Wasn't he a terrible student who later in life failed at pretty much everything?
    It seems that aside from his IQ, his EQ wasn't that great either until he found likeminded people and his dedication enabled him to accomplish a few things, if you want to call it that, before finding the end he deserved.
    (Not only that he deserved, but a cold hearted society unwilling to take a stand against him needed to shake them up)
    Perhaps the explanation is that some people observe an effect and have the illusion of observing the cause as well,
    i.e. one observes a prowess and assumes it is (only) due to higher intelligence.

    One way to look at such issues is to think about how often people are misled about certain correlations.

    http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

    In the master-puppet relationship, who do you think is the intelligent one?
    Was Hitler a master or a puppet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    No?! What is IQ of monkey or a mouse?
    I am not sure if your question is meaningless or if you are begging the question (i.e. assuming the answer)...

    "...testing IQ of animals is a nonsensical concept..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    I am not sure if your question is meaningless or if you are begging the question (i.e. assuming the answer)...

    "...testing IQ of animals is a nonsensical concept..."
    What makes monkey not understand IQ test, nurture or nature?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    What makes monkey not understand IQ test, nurture or nature?
    They are not humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodorik View Post
    "Evidence of correlation is not evidence of causation." People with higher IQ's get more brainwashing in liberal educational institutions.
    The average IQ of vegans is 116. Does eating a vegan diet raise IQ? Or are smart people more likely to become vegans? The later is the answer.
    Some very intelligent people have believed in God. http://forums.delphiforums.com/biops...ges/?msg=964.1
    Yes. IQs of 200 are rare, but it does happen. There is me, Netanyahu, Sununu (you would be happy to know that he is a redhead of Palestinian descent), Goebbels, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and a host of people who never amounted to anything.

    http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/th...he-highest-iq/


    The Highest IQs On Record




    You forgot Leonhard Euler, who was a ... a committed Christian and, apparently, a biblical literalist as well as being (arguably) one of the greatest mathematicians ever.

    https://godandmath.com/2012/01/15/ch...ticians-euler/

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    They are not humans.
    Very sharp. What makes people different from monkeys, perhaps DNA?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Very sharp. What makes people different from monkeys, perhaps DNA?
    Thank you,
    now I am sure you are begging the question... again.

    But since you didn't get the point yet,
    I will make the argument simpler for you.

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.

    You should study more about nonsense correlations and spurious correlations,
    if you dont want to get stuck with illusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    ... I think it's a mistake to mix religion and politics.
    I think you can't really separate religion from politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    I think the job of a minister or priest is to help people have meaningful spiritual experiences.
    And that usually happens when people are willing to subject themselves to the views of a certain 'political party', i.e. religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    Thank you,
    now I am sure you are begging the question... again.

    But since you didn't get the point yet,
    I will make the argument simpler for you.

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.

    You should study more about nonsense correlations and spurious correlations,
    if you dont want to get stuck with illusions.
    Just a question: is it possible to train the world's smartest goat to become a theoretical physicist? Should we expect a duck to beat Magnus Carlsen at chess, even after countless hours of training by the world's best animal psychologists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Just a question: is it possible to train the world's smartest goat to become a theoretical physicist? Should we expect a duck to beat Magnus Carlsen at chess, even after countless hours of training by the world's best animal psychologists?
    Fallacy detected, meaningless questionS (not just a question, by the way).
    Answer the questions yourself and draw any correlation you want.
    Last edited by castelleone; 30-07-17 at 15:17.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    Thank you,
    now I am sure you are begging the question... again.

    But since you didn't get the point yet,
    I will make the argument simpler for you.

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.

    You should study more about nonsense correlations and spurious correlations,
    if you dont want to get stuck with illusions.
    To make it very easy for you, I'd say that they are so stupid that we can't even run IQ test on them. This is because they don't have human DNA, which make our brain of certain size and architecture. Likewise, there are examples of people born with mutations in DNA, which cause brain to underdeveloped, and render IQ test useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    To make it very easy for you, I'd say that they are so stupid that we can't even run IQ test on them. This is because they don't have human DNA, which make our brain of certain size and architecture. Likewise, there are examples of people born with mutations in DNA, which cause brain to underdeveloped, and render IQ test useless.
    Lol...

    Are you sure you got my point, in the first place, to even think you are making things easier for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    Lol...

    Are you sure you got my point, in the first place, to even think you are making things easier for me?
    If you don't get this point, nothing else I can do. It must be your genetic predisposition. ;)

    PS. Don't start downvoting game with me. Your downvoting carries -1 point, mine -30 points. I suggest you concentrate on giving positive reputation for posts that you like.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    If you don't get this point, nothing else I can do. It must be your genetic predisposition. ;)

    PS. Don't start downvoting game with me. Your downvoting carries -1 point, mine -30 points. I suggest you concentrate on giving positive reputation for posts that you like.
    Ad hominem reply coupled with a threat, Mr. Reputation?

    Lol...

    Again,

    The question is not about the genetic difference between humans and other animals!
    but it is about if you can apply such concept (IQ) to other animals and draw conclusions about their intelligence.

    Again,

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.


    And assuming you can apply it,
    that still does not prove the IQ is highly dependent on genes.

    That takes us to the original problem, stated for humans,
    and thus leaves us with the same problem, but now stated for other animals as well.

    Got it?

    Decades of research could not prove this correlation,
    and you are bringing up outdated theories from the 1800...

    If you have the answer to IQ and genetics that deserves the Nobel prize,
    go get it.

    Lol...

    PS: -30 for some people is like -1 for others

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    Ad hominem reply coupled with a threat, Mr. Reputation?
    Wink means it is a joke.



    The question is not about the genetic difference between humans and other animals!
    but it is about if you can apply such concept (IQ) to other animals and draw conclusions about their intelligence.
    Not exact analogies. You can't measure human IQ, because they are not humans! And this is foremost DNA problem.


    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.
    Did I mention something about DNA and brain architecture?

    And assuming you can apply it,
    that still does not prove the IQ is highly dependent on genes.
    No you can't, no matter how long you try. Exactly because of "wrong" DNA. You can try educating and train monkey for 20 years or longer in human languages and math and logical thinking and human culture, and still can't conduct human IQ test. It takes a specialized brain to grasp language and higher logic. This comes with special DNA. But once you have this special brain, you can teach it anything and conduct IQ test. DNA, DNA, DNA before nurture!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Not exact analogies.
    It does not need to be exact,
    as much as hyperboles are never real... but still out there proving the f... point

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    You can't measure human IQ, because they are not humans! And this is foremost DNA problem.
    LMFAO...

    Do you remember who wrote this a few posts ago?
    "They are not humans."

    Again,

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.


    First you need to meditate over the implicit meanings of my analogy,
    then you can regret having written the sentence above.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    No you can't, no matter how long you try. Exactly because of "wrong" DNA. You can try educating and train monkey for 20 years or longer in human languages and math and logical thinking and human culture, and still can't conduct human IQ test. It takes a specialized brain to grasp language and higher logic.
    Again,

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.


    First you need to meditate over the implicit meanings of my analogy... once more,
    then you can regret having written yet another sentence above.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    This comes with special DNA. But once you have this special brain, you can teach it anything and conduct IQ test. DNA, DNA, DNA before nurture!
    Lol...

    Bravo!

    While so many unconclusive studies have been carried out to prove that IQ is highly dependent on genes,
    you not only assume it as a true premise, you use it as argument to prove itself...

    Be humble,
    nobody knows where intelligence comes from...
    and we are not even intelligent enough to even know how to define it.

    I rest my case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    It does not need to be exact,
    as much as hyperboles are never real... but still out there proving the f... point



    LMFAO...

    Do you remember who wrote this a few posts ago?
    "They are not humans."

    Again,

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.


    First you need to meditate over the implicit meanings of my analogy,
    then you can regret having written the sentence above.



    Again,

    Testing the 'IQ' of monkeys, octopuses or rain-worms with IQ tests conceived for humans
    is equivalent of, say, measuring temperature with a ruler.


    First you need to meditate over the implicit meanings of my analogy... once more,
    then you can regret having written yet another sentence above.



    Lol...

    Bravo!

    While so many unconclusive studies have been carried out to prove that IQ is highly dependent on genes,
    you not only assume it as a true premise, you use it as argument to prove itself...
    As long as you can't see that the main difference between species is genetics we can't continue.
    Be humble,
    nobody knows where intelligence comes from...
    Really, we don't know that yet? Now I understand your confusion. Perhaps I could suggest few books about brain.

    and we are not even intelligent enough to even know how to define it.
    Wow, let's stop science. We are not intelligent enough to figure the world out. With such attitude we would have never invented computer and internet for you to discourage others from science.

    You are confusing inability of understanding with inability to agree on one definition. That's normal for young sciences and sciences with big complexity of problems. It takes time to discover all and fully define everything. It is a process, you know. And it doesn't mean we don't know a lot already and we can't figure everything out. Not having complete knowledge on a subject doesn't defy knowing a lot already or having correct partial knowledge. It is not black and white issue. We know a lot already, and there is ongoing steady process of new discoveries and understanding.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I dont think being religous and IQ has correlation. It depends rather on two factors. How blinding from reality the specific religion can be perceived as, whether or not the individual has ability or want to compensate mind effectively to replace an outdated religous rule with a correct scientific proven fact

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    As long as you can't see that the main difference between species is genetics we can't continue.
    Really, we don't know that yet? Now I understand your confusion. Perhaps I could suggest few books about brain.

    Wow, let's stop science. We are not intelligent enough to figure the world out. With such attitude we would have never invented computer and internet for you to discourage others from science.

    You are confusing inability of understanding with inability to agree on one definition. That's normal for young sciences and sciences with big complexity of problems. It takes time to discover all and fully define everything. It is a process, you know. And it doesn't mean we don't know a lot already and we can't figure everything out. Not having complete knowledge on a subject doesn't defy knowing a lot already or having correct partial knowledge. It is not black and white issue. We know a lot already, and there is ongoing steady process of new discoveries and understanding.
    Lol...

    Fantastic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Runofmillsukrainian View Post
    I dont think being religous and IQ has correlation. It depends rather on two factors. How blinding from reality the specific religion can be perceived as, whether or not the individual has ability or want to compensate mind effectively to replace an outdated religous rule with a correct scientific proven fact
    There is a correlation,
    a nonsense or spurious correlation,
    nothing more...

    But, as somebody else has written before,
    that is not evidence of the cause - yet.

    You see a lot of confused people,
    who correlate genes with intelligence and, besides a sh*t load of bias,
    the only thing they have as proof is... circular logic.

    In the same group of people,
    you find those who insist on seeing a correlation as proof of causation (right genes : high IQ).

    They are usually "champions of science",
    who recommend books on brain and intelligence...

    They are often "paladins of truth",
    who violate the method they defend so much...

    But long story short,
    ask them to show you exact which genes are responsible for intelligence,
    and recommend them to take a DNA test instead of a IQ test...

    The irony is,
    they wouldn't really pass any of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castelleone View Post
    There is a correlation,
    a nonsense or spurious correlation,
    nothing more...

    But, as somebody else has written before,
    that is not evidence of the cause - yet.

    You see a lot of confused people,
    who correlate genes with intelligence and, besides a sh*t load of bias,
    the only thing they have as proof is... circular logic.

    In the same group of people,
    you find those who insist on seeing a correlation as proof of causation (right genes : high IQ).

    They are usually "champions of science",
    who recommend books on brain and intelligence...

    They are often "paladins of truth",
    who violate the method they defend so much...

    But long story short,
    ask them to show you exact which genes are responsible for intelligence,
    and recommend them to take a DNA test instead of a IQ test...

    The irony is,
    they wouldn't really pass any of them.
    Religion and IQ is not related, this is your opinion statement, it doesnt mean every Atheist has higher IQ than Catholic there is no correlation

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Runofmillsukrainian View Post
    Religion and IQ is not related, this is your opinion statement, it doesnt mean every Atheist has higher IQ than Catholic there is no correlation

    You missed the point... completely.

    The fact that religion and IQ are correlated does not mean a cause and effect relationship...

    Visit the site http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

    You will see a lot more of funny things that correlate.

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    Last Post: 06-03-06, 20:32
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