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Thread: Study shows that IQ decreases with religiosity

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    0 out of 3 members found this post helpful.

    Study shows that IQ decreases with religiosity



    ScienceDirect - The intelligence–religiosity nexus: A representative study of white adolescent Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Helmuth Nyborg
    The present study examined whether IQ relates systematically to denomination and income within the framework of the g nexus, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (NLSY97). Atheists score 1.95 IQ points higher than Agnostics, 3.82 points higher than Liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than Dogmatic persuasions. Denominations differ significantly in IQ and income. Religiosity declines between ages 12 to 17. It is suggested that IQ makes an individual likely to gravitate toward a denomination and level of achievement that best fit his or hers particular level of cognitive complexity. Ontogenetically speaking this means that contemporary denominations are rank ordered by largely hereditary variations in brain efficiency (i.e. IQ). In terms of evolution, modern Atheists are reacting rationally to cognitive and emotional challenges, whereas Liberals and, in particular Dogmatics, still rely on ancient, pre-rational, supernatural and wishful thinking.
    Good summary. It confirms what I have observed since my childhood. I have met a lot of agnostics that were as intelligent as atheists - they just didn't care much about philosophical questions or were less interested in neuroscience than atheists.

    I have met some less bright people who didn't believe in god or in anything, but they were not true atheists. They were just people who didn't care and never really reflected on the existence of god. Technically they are implicit atheists (or "atheists by default"), although I wouldn't call them atheists - just lazy minds. This study probably only included explicit atheists.
    Last edited by Maciamo; 23-12-11 at 10:56.
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    If that is the case then what do you define then as an atheists.

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    I am highly skeptical of such articles which base their arguments on IQ tests while the definition of intelligence is still quite controversial in today's scientific world. Are IQ tests valid and suffice tools to measure intelligence in all it's dimensions and is intelligence defined scientifically?
    The concept of intelligence is only an approximation which corresponds to a semantic comfort use, not an objective reality. In a given situation there are people who will do better than others, so they are called smart, but in another situation they will do worse and we say the elites are null. The meaning of words does not necessarily correspond to a reality and it is not easy to measure what does not exist. IQ is purely a cultural construction (%99) and the current definition of intelligence is a myth.



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    It is a hard life, but a rewarding one, if you are not religious.
    Actually, religion is the easy way to be. No problems for them
    from the atheists and agnostics who ARE in the minority

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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    "Evidence of correlation is not evidence of causation." People with higher IQ's get more brainwashing in liberal educational institutions.
    The average IQ of vegans is 116. Does eating a vegan diet raise IQ? Or are smart people more likely to become vegans? The later is the answer.
    Some very intelligent people have believed in God. http://forums.delphiforums.com/biops...ges/?msg=964.1
    Yes. IQs of 200 are rare, but it does happen. There is me, Netanyahu, Sununu (you would be happy to know that he is a redhead of Palestinian descent), Goebbels, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and a host of people who never amounted to anything.

    http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/th...he-highest-iq/


    The Highest IQs On Record





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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodorik View Post
    "Evidence of correlation is not evidence of causation."
    Sure, but correlation needs to be taken under consideration and often leads to causation.

    People with higher IQ's get more brainwashing in liberal educational institutions.
    Now you have to explain why you consider liberal education as brainwashing? Doesn't term Liberal stands in contrast with conservative education, meaning everyone learns to think as establishment does?
    The average IQ of vegans is 116. Does eating a vegan diet raise IQ? Or are smart people more likely to become vegans? The later is the answer.
    Are you saying that intelligent people are actually stupid?

    Some very intelligent people have believed in God. http://forums.delphiforums.com/biops...ges/?msg=964.1
    Did you reverse your logic and imply now that intelligence is good.

    Yes. IQs of 200 are rare, but it does happen. There is me, Netanyahu, Sununu (you would be happy to know that he is a redhead of Palestinian descent), Goebbels, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and a host of people who never amounted to anything.
    I didn't know they've tested Leonardo da Vinci's IQ, not mentioning Newton.



    The Highest IQs On Record


  7. Again, who tested them? I thought IQ test was invented at beginning of 20th century?
Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.
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    http://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/...-9780199543656


    Many well-known historical figures who influenced Western science considered themselves Christian such as Copernicus,[5] Galileo,[6] Kepler,[7] Newton[1] and Boyle.[8]
    According to 100 Years of Nobel Prizes a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference.[9] Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace,[10] 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics,[10] 62% in Medicine,[10] 54% in Economics[10] and 49.5% of all Literature awards.[10]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers_in_science


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    Many well-known historical figures who influenced Western science considered themselves Christian such as Copernicus,[5] Galileo,[6] Kepler,[7] Newton[1] and Boyle.[8]
    It was hard not to be a christian during age of Holy Inquisition. For atheists and heretics the way to salvation was through bone fire.
    Furthermore it is hard not to believe when 100% people are christians or muslims around you. You constantly ask yourself a question " Can everyone be wrong?", with lack of other evidence a faulty logic kicks in "Of course it is impossible or extremely unlikely for all these people to be wrong.
    At this time and age we know much better how societies work, and we know that actually it happens very often that whole nations could be wrong on many issues.


    According to 100 Years of Nobel Prizes a review of Nobel prizes award between 1901 and 2000 reveals that (65.4%) of Nobel Prizes Laureates, have identified Christianity in its various forms as their religious preference.[9] Overall, Christians have won a total of 78.3% of all the Nobel Prizes in Peace,[10] 72.5% in Chemistry, 65.3% in Physics,[10] 62% in Medicine,[10] 54% in Economics[10] and 49.5% of all Literature awards.[10]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ers_in_science
    It still doesn't change a fact that there are more atheists among intelligent people, and more religious people among people with lower IQ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    It was hard not to be a christian during age of Holy Inquisition. For atheists and heretics the way to salvation was through bone fire.


    It still doesn't change a fact that there are more atheists among intelligent people, and more religious people among people with lower IQ.
    What about Lenin,Stalin,Hitler?Intelligent people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    What about Lenin,Stalin,Hitler?Intelligent people...
    This thread is about statistics that correlates IQ with religiosity, not few individuals famous or infamous.

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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    This thread is about statistics that correlates IQ with religiosity, not few individuals famous or infamous.
    “I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself” (Winston Churchill)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    What about Lenin,Stalin,Hitler?Intelligent people...
    Hitler saw himself as a devout christian, whereas Lenin and Stalin were atheists. So it appears that religious belief or lack thereof is not a predictor of who acquires political power. However, as LeBrok has already pointed out, statistical averages don't apply to individuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodorik View Post
    "Evidence of correlation is not evidence of causation." People with higher IQ's get more brainwashing in liberal educational institutions.
    The average IQ of vegans is 116. Does eating a vegan diet raise IQ? Or are smart people more likely to become vegans? The later is the answer.
    Some very intelligent people have believed in God. http://forums.delphiforums.com/biops...ges/?msg=964.1
    Yes. IQs of 200 are rare, but it does happen. There is me, Netanyahu, Sununu (you would be happy to know that he is a redhead of Palestinian descent), Goebbels, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vinci, and a host of people who never amounted to anything.

    http://onemansblog.com/2007/11/08/th...he-highest-iq/


    The Highest IQs On Record





    Are you saying that Newton, Swedenborg and Luther were time travellers? Alfred Binet developed the first IQ tests in the early 20th century.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Hitler saw himself as a devout christian, whereas Lenin and Stalin were atheists. So it appears that religious belief or lack thereof is not a predictor of who acquires political power. However, as LeBrok has already pointed out, statistical averages don't apply to individuals.
    The biographer John Toland noted Hitler's anticlericalism, but considered him still in "good standing" with the Church by 1941, while historians such as Ian Kershaw, Joachim Fest and Alan Bullock agree that Hitler was anti-Christian - a view evidenced by sources such as the Goebbels Diaries, the memoirs of Speer, and the transcripts edited by Martin Bormann contained within Hitler's Table Talk.[4


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...f_Adolf_Hitler

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    “Intelligence is a hypothetical idea which we have defined as being reflected by certain types of behavior.”

    What is intelligence?

    Intelligence is defined as general cognitive problem-solving skills. A mental ability involved in reasoning, perceiving relationships and analogies, calculating, learning quickly… etc. Earlier it was believed that there was one underlying general factor at the intelligence base (the g-factor), but later psychologists maintained that it is more complicated and could not be determined by such a simplistic method. Some psychologists have divided intelligence into subcategories. For example Howard Gardner maintained that it is comprised of seven components: musical, bodily-kinesthetic, logical-mathematical, linguistic, spatial, interpersonal, and intrapersonal. Other definitions are: “Intelligence is what you do when you don’t know what to do.”

    http://www.brainmetrix.com/intelligence-definition/

    Reason and Racism in the New Atheist Movement
    "Perhaps one of the most widespread claims by the New Atheists is that religion is harmful. For Richard Dawkins it is a virus that spreads and infects the mind and is comparable to child abuse. For the late Christopher Hitchens religion “poisons everything” and is a “menace to society.” Greta Christina claims that the belief in supernatural entities makes people “more vulnerable to oppression, fraud and abuse.” Sam Harris likens religion to mental illness. One could go on and on with examples like these."
    http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/20...eist-movement/

    This is quite communistic and racistic.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Aberdeen View Post
    Are you saying that Newton, Swedenborg and Luther were time travellers? Alfred Binet developed the first IQ tests in the early 20th century.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...elligence.html

    IQ tests have been controversial for years. Many argue that they are biased; others say that they give an incomplete view of intelligence. Indeed, a study published in an upcoming issue of the journal Neuron confirms that IQ tests are not an accurate predictor of intelligence. In fact, the researchers say that no single test - at least none that has been devised already - can give an accurate assessment of all types of intelligence.
    http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-co...ligence-243971

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...elligence.html

    IQ tests have been controversial for years. Many argue that they are biased; others say that they give an incomplete view of intelligence. Indeed, a study published in an upcoming issue of the journal Neuron confirms that IQ tests are not an accurate predictor of intelligence. In fact, the researchers say that no single test - at least none that has been devised already - can give an accurate assessment of all types of intelligence.
    http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-co...ligence-243971
    So what if the test is not perfect. It still can predict a success in life pretty well. Many studies say that higher IQ score predicts better jobs and more money made in life. Likewise it can predict probability of being religious or not. And no matter how hard you hit your head into the wall, you won't change it.

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    LeBrok:So what if the test is not perfect.

    If the test is erroneous,how accurate is the result?But!I don`t really care about the test.Its the statement that is prejudiced,really morbid and fascistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    LeBrok:So what if the test is not perfect.

    If the test is erroneous,how accurate is the result?But!I don`t really care about the test.Its the statement that is prejudiced,really morbid and fascistic.
    You'd better learn definition of the words you're using. Just a warning this time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    You'd better learn definition of the words you're using. Just a warning this time.
    What do you mean by warning? Are you going to give him an infraction because he's aggressively against something you agree with?

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    Freedom of thought (also called the freedom of conscience or ideas) is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints. It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of speech or expression.
    Freedom of thought is the precursor and progenitor of—and thus is closely linked to—other liberties including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression.
    Tolerance or toleration to tolerate, or put up with, conditionally, also to suggest a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    Freedom of thought (also called the freedom of conscience or ideas) is the freedom of an individual to hold or consider a fact, viewpoint, or thought, independent of others' viewpoints. It is different from and not to be confused with the concept of freedom of speech or expression.
    Freedom of thought is the precursor and progenitor of—and thus is closely linked to—other liberties including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of expression.
    Tolerance or toleration to tolerate, or put up with, conditionally, also to suggest a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
    Freedom of thought and expression is welcome as long as it doesn't violate Eupedia rules, and basic civility.

    Did you think you showed your tolerance when you branded my opinion "morbid and fascist"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Freedom of thought and expression is welcome as long as it doesn't violate Eupedia rules, and basic civility.

    Did you think you showed your tolerance when you branded my opinion "morbid and fascist"?
    Please do not misunderstand me.My comment is not about You!What I meant is that the statement "IQ decreases with religiosity" is totally unacceptable because its clearly tendentious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/s...elligence.html

    IQ tests have been controversial for years. Many argue that they are biased; others say that they give an incomplete view of intelligence. Indeed, a study published in an upcoming issue of the journal Neuron confirms that IQ tests are not an accurate predictor of intelligence. In fact, the researchers say that no single test - at least none that has been devised already - can give an accurate assessment of all types of intelligence.
    http://www.medicaldaily.com/study-co...ligence-243971
    If IQ tests are controversial, and you seem to believe they may not be valid, how can you say what kind of IQ certain people may have had if they lived before the IQ test was created? Your arguments do not seem very logical to me.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by gyms View Post
    “Intelligence is a hypothetical idea which we have defined as being reflected by certain types of behavior.”

    What is intelligence?

    Intelligence is defined as general cognitive problem-solving skills. A mental ability involved in reasoning, perceiving relationships and analogies, calculating, learning quickly… etc. Earlier it was believed that there was one underlying general factor at the intelligence base (the g-factor), but later psychologists maintained that it is more complicated and could not be determined by such a simplistic method. Some psychologists have divided intelligence into subcategories. For example Howard Gardner maintained that it is comprised of seven components: musical, bodily-kinesthetic, logical-mathematical, linguistic, spatial, interpersonal, and intrapersonal. Other definitions are: “Intelligence is what you do when you don’t know what to do.”

    http://www.brainmetrix.com/intelligence-definition/

    Reason and Racism in the New Atheist Movement
    "Perhaps one of the most widespread claims by the New Atheists is that religion is harmful. For Richard Dawkins it is a virus that spreads and infects the mind and is comparable to child abuse. For the late Christopher Hitchens religion “poisons everything” and is a “menace to society.” Greta Christina claims that the belief in supernatural entities makes people “more vulnerable to oppression, fraud and abuse.” Sam Harris likens religion to mental illness. One could go on and on with examples like these."
    http://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/20...eist-movement/

    This is quite communistic and racistic.




    The first website you link to suggests that IQ tests may not be a completely perfect way to test intelligence, but also says that different types of IQ tests, when applied to the same individual, generally produce very similar results. That would suggest that the creator of the website believes that IQ tests, when properly administered, have considerable validity, despite not being perfect.

    The second website you linked to shows an article that displays very poor reasoning, and I would assume that the individual who wrote it has a fairly low IQ. His argument seems to be "Different people of different races often have different religions, so anyone who's an atheist and who wants people to give up religion must be a racist." That is an obviously fallacious argument. And there's nothing inherently communistic about atheism, just as there's nothing inherently religious about monarchy. The modern communist movement promoted atheism at a time when the power of the capitalist structure in Europe was propped up by established churches, but that does not make atheism itself inherently communistic. Someone appears to have failed Logic 101.

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