Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 40 of 40

Thread: Haplogroup N and the Finns

  1. #26
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveVeteran10000 Experience Points
    zanipolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    22-03-11
    Posts
    2,073
    Points
    22,792
    Level
    46
    Points: 22,792, Level: 46
    Level completed: 25%, Points required for next Level: 758
    Overall activity: 0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - Z19945
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1a4o

    Ethnic group
    Down Under
    Country: Australia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  2. #27
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    K gave birth to NO, O would stop in south-central china whereas N would head north and west until attaining western Siberia (north Russia)/Finland and the Baltic states (Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania)

  3. #28
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    That is common knowledge at this point (N+O) just like L+T

  4. #29
    Banned Achievements:
    100 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-02-13
    Posts
    553


    Country: Albania



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Do Estonias show any Asiatic feature? I have seen just two of them altogether, and the one I have seen I did not notice any asiatic feature.

  5. #30
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    I mean the haplogroup movements, not physical characteristics, Estonians are slavo-Finnic (40% N1c and 40% R1a with 5-10% I1.) they are diluted Slavs and Finnish types with typical European mtdna (H,U,T) etc.

  6. #31
    Banned Achievements:
    100 Experience Points1 year registered

    Join Date
    22-02-13
    Posts
    553


    Country: Albania



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I mean the haplogroup movements, not physical characteristics, Estonians are slavo-Finnic (40% N1c and 40% R1a with 5-10% I1.) they are diluted Slavs and Finnish types with typical European mtdna (H,U,T) etc.
    O.K but in many Fins Asians features are visible. Others show strong eastern European features. If, as you are saying they are 40% N1c they too should have asian phenotypes. Let say Albanians have 50% of their genes from Near East, and the Near eastern phenotypes are common.

  7. #32
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Finns are 63% N1c and 30% I1, they don't have much else whereas the other Baltic states (Estonia,Latvia,Lithuania) are heavily diluted with male R1a in the mix as well. Finns maternally have much H! (40%) 20% are H1+H3 to be more precise but 40% H in total, just as most Europeans are! They also have some 25% mtdna U, most of it (20%) being U5. They are an indigenous group of southeast Asian men that made a very bold move north into Siberia from south/central china and eventually migrated into the easternmost fringes of Europe (Finland,the Baltic region predominantly, northern Russia) where they mixed in with typical European females creating a sort of new ethnic group. Note that by the time the men of N reached Finland, they had undergone even further genetic mutations N-N1a-N1b-N1c etc. that further differentiated them from their long lost asiatic cousins of hg O. (O dominates china/southeast Asia today; Vietnam, can be found in Laos, Thailand, Philippines, Taiwan, even Malaysia and Japan, although hg D dominates Japan, there's a good 25-30% O in Japan as well.)

  8. #33
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,444
    Points
    9,065
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,065, Level: 28
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 285
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    4 out of 4 members found this post helpful.
    "Eastern European" phenotypes are quite diverse, the terminology you're using is not really helpful.

    Both Finns and Baltic populations have the highest proportions of Mesolithic genes, with the main difference that the former are substantially more asian shifted than the later. So it seems that the Finns had some kind of contact with Siberian populations that did not affect the Baltic area (or just did to a much lesser extent). However, the Balts were definetly more affected during the Neolithic, and specially by the IE migrations, than Basques or Sardinians for instance.

    Concerning the topic, I still don't see that N1c was responsible of the mongoloid admixture considering its prevalence among Balts. Maybe other haplogroups, such as Q or others, even if less present, are the remnants of the ancient Asian contacts. N was probably originally very asian-like, but when it became N1c could be already diluted with Caucasoids.

  9. #34
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I do think that they where Asian like personally. It's just that among contact with typically European females (H+U lineages for example, many become blond and aryan looking half white/ half asiatic, with blue eyes etc.

  10. #35
    Regular Member Achievements:
    OverdriveThree Friends5000 Experience PointsVeteran
    Knovas's Avatar
    Join Date
    14-05-11
    Location
    Spain
    Posts
    1,444
    Points
    9,065
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,065, Level: 28
    Level completed: 53%, Points required for next Level: 285
    Overall activity: 4.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a1a*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    K1b1a

    Ethnic group
    Catalan
    Country: Spain - Catalonia



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    I'm basing my argument on admixture experiments. N1c is very frequent among Balts as well, but they are far from showing 6-8% Siberian as the Finns do. Maybe 1% or even less. Without taking into account the unknown percent of asian ancestry included inside the so called "Northern clusters", but there's definetly a substantial difference between Finns and Balts having both a lot of N1c linages.

    I mean, taking modern frequencies as reference, there's no clear proof that the reason is N1c. ┬┐Why the correlation works for one group and not for the others?

  11. #36
    Regular Member Achievements:
    5000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    14-10-11
    Posts
    1,048
    Points
    9,076
    Level
    28
    Points: 9,076, Level: 28
    Level completed: 55%, Points required for next Level: 274
    Overall activity: 13.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Yes
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Yes

    Ethnic group
    German
    Country: Germany



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Not to be forgotten: There can be also some pseudo asian look due to borealization as an adaptation to very cold climates.

  12. #37
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Look at Yakuts and nenets for example, very high I. n1c, asiatic character? Definitely yes, it becomes less evident with the fins/Sami people and Baltic states which also have quite high N1c. I guess the mtdna in both these regions is what changes, the Finns having mixed far more with European blond haired blue eyed Mtdna.

  13. #38
    Emperor Achievements:
    Overdrive1000 Experience Points3 months registered

    Join Date
    10-04-13
    Posts
    2,120
    Points
    4,787
    Level
    20
    Points: 4,787, Level: 20
    Level completed: 35%, Points required for next Level: 263
    Overall activity: 14.0%

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    Whereas probably the Yakuts and nenets mixed in predominantly with female Siberian/asiatic even Amerindian lineages probably (B,F,maybes even mtdna A)

  14. #39
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    31-08-13
    Posts
    37
    Points
    3,146
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,146, Level: 16
    Level completed: 24%, Points required for next Level: 304
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Sweden



    Quote Originally Posted by Knovas View Post
    "Eastern European" phenotypes are quite diverse, the terminology you're using is not really helpful.

    Both Finns and Baltic populations have the highest proportions of Mesolithic genes, with the main difference that the former are substantially more asian shifted than the later. So it seems that the Finns had some kind of contact with Siberian populations that did not affect the Baltic area (or just did to a much lesser extent). However, the Balts were definetly more affected during the Neolithic, and specially by the IE migrations, than Basques or Sardinians for instance.

    Concerning the topic, I still don't see that N1c was responsible of the mongoloid admixture considering its prevalence among Balts. Maybe other haplogroups, such as Q or others, even if less present, are the remnants of the ancient Asian contacts. N was probably originally very asian-like, but when it became N1c could be already diluted with Caucasoids.
    I think this post is the most correct. As stated, high N correlates with high Northern European/mesolithic genes. Finns have gotten their Siberian admixture from somewhere else - its was probably not an ancestral component carried from the Uralic Urheimat. There is of course no doubt that N come from Asia, but that migration was so ancient that N-people were completly assimialted into the caucasoid gene pool.

    The most widely held theory is that the proto-Saami speaking people, moving from the Uralic Urheimat in the Volga region, picked up Siberian genes from a population in North-Eastern Europe. They then moved to Lapland and mixed with the paleo-European population to form present day Saamis. Finns in turn got their Siberian admixture from the proto-Saami speaking people. This explain why all Uralic people do not have Siberian genes. For example Veps lack it, and it's not found in the Baltic although Finnic languages were previously spoken there.

  15. #40
    Regular Member Achievements:
    1000 Experience PointsVeteran

    Join Date
    31-08-13
    Posts
    37
    Points
    3,146
    Level
    16
    Points: 3,146, Level: 16
    Level completed: 24%, Points required for next Level: 304
    Overall activity: 0%


    Country: Sweden



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    It is true that the Finns are a blender of Mongoloid and Germanic people. Some Mongoloid features are still apparent even in tall and blond Finns. Likewise, many northern and eastern Swedes also have slight Mongoloid features (especially in Gotland, afaik).
    Really? Do you actually think that a 5-6% share of the genome could be so visible? Especially considering how ancient the admixture is, how evenly the genes must be spread out.

    What you see is probably the result of genetic drift and missing out on otherwise common European genes. Different facial features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I wrote that the Finns were a blend of Germanic and Mongoloid people 3 years ago. It was a mistake. I should have written pre-Germanic, which is to say Paleolithic Northern European (hg I1). I1 is also common among the Saami, who are thought to be the descendants of the last Paleolithic hunter-gatherers from Scandinavia - those that were not absorbed by the Indo-European R1a and R1b people.
    I still think that is an oversimplification. West Finns do in fact have high I and germanic or proto-germanic people have lived in Finland, before or after the arrival of Finns, as is evident in very old loanwords, but the proto-Finnish speaking people who mixed with these germanics (or whatever they were) were not Siberian. Rather Baltic, if any label fits them at all. The Siberian admixture comes from another source as i state in the post above.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Appearance of Finns versus other Scandinavians.
    By oreo_cookie in forum Anthropology & Ethnography
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 05-10-13, 20:53
  2. Finns get the longest paid holidays, Brits the shortest
    By Maciamo in forum European News & Hot Topics
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-06-07, 13:26

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •