Lie about mtDNA haplogroup frequencies in Spain.

I agree. I have alaways wondered how the testees look like, and how native they are, to sum up, How representative of the native population they are. Like Cambria Red says, time will tell..
 
Wilhelm said:
This studies are probably done to White Latin Amerians, hence the Native american Hgs
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I don't think so. Scandinavians, and Eastern Europeans also have a bit of haplogroups A, C and D.

The Spaniards were the first to colonise the Americas. Even on his first trip Columbus took back a few Natives to show to the monarchs. In the ensuing centuries many Spaniards took Native wives in the Americas. Most stayed in the Americas, but some missed Spain and went back with their wife and children. There was a small but constant exchange of population between Spain and its colonies during the 16th, 17h and 18th centuries. Whatever way you look at it there must be at least a small amount of Native American blood among the modern Spanish population to account for this history.

I understand that some white people refuse to accept that they or their friends may not be "pure" European, but that's the way it is. Anyway all Europeans have a good deal of Middle Eastern or North African blood, and almost nobody among ordinary people is aware of it. White Americans who descend from the early colonist (back to the independence of the USA) are almost 100% certain to have a little bit of both Native American and Black African DNA (both at detectable autosomal levels, as can be shown by tests like 23andme or deCODEme. Would you be able to say that Val Kilmer is 1/8 Native American, or that Keanu Reeves has no European ancestry (1/4 Hawaiian, 1/4 Chinese, 1/2 Lebanese) ? It comes as a surprise to many people.

DNA tests have also shown that all African Americans have a substantial amount of European blood, even those who are very darked skinned and look African. Ironically, many African Americans have more European than African blood (e.g. 60-40). This is because genes influencing looks and pigmentation are only a small fraction of DNA, and if you mix Mulattos between them for many successive generations, some will end up white, others black, and the majority in between (café-au-lait). But the invisible DNA, about our immune system, blood type, character, etc. will be dispersed just as randomly, and does not follow physical characteristics. Traits and pigmentation can be of different origins too. Just look at Tiger Woods or Lewis Hamilton. They have dark skin, but have more European-looking facial traits. A European with less than 5% of Native American ancestry would not look any different from a European with no Amerindian ancestry.

Anyway I don't see the problem for a Spaniard or other European with having a bit of Native American blood. All Finns are aware of their Siberian admixture, and many Scandinavians too (Y-haplogroups N and Q are common among Nordic people, and indeed a marker of Norse ancestry for Western Europeans). Siberian people are the ancestors of Native Americans, and their closest relatives.
 
Thanks for the info Maciamo, but still it would be interesting to know which regions were taken into account in this studio. If you can provide a link it would be appreciated.

Greetings and happy new year to everyone. :)
 
Maciamo said:
Back to the original topic, Helgason et al. (2001) gives 2.27% of mtDNA haplogroups A, B, C, D in Iberia (1.14% for C, 0.85% for A, and 0.28% for D). They are all probably Native American rather than Asian. Haplogroups C and D are fairly common in Russia, Bulgaria and Turkey (2 to 5%), but not found in Central Europe or in the British Isles.
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Maciamo do you have the sources ? Thanks (y)
 
luis77 said:
It is wrong to say that Spain has about 1% L (African mtDNA) which is comparable to England. Of course if you count in the average regions like Basques or Catalans who do not have L lineages, you get an average not very high but still between 2 and 3 % .
I doesnt not make sense to average regions with a very different history.

The highest % of African mtDNA


But if you still want to do an average from the main studies, you get 2.10%

Alvarez et al. (2007) found 9 L lineages out of 312 (2.90%)
Pereira et al. (2005) found 8 L lineages out of 496 (1.61%)
Casas et al. (2006) found 9 L lineages out of 108 in Cordoba (8.30%, very high! )
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Amusing how no one around here seems to have caught your specious manipulations and lies. First of all, Priego de Cordoba does not equal "Cordoba". It's just a small municipality of it. And second, the authors of the study do not consider M/N/L3 as "sub-Saharan", only L1 and L2 :


"The significant higher number of sub-Saharan African lineages (L1 and L2, Table 2) in MP..."

(I would post the URL for the study so that everyone can check it for themselves, but it doesn't allow me to do that yet)

The actual frequencies of sub-Saharan lineages for the medieval (MP) and present (PP) population of that place should actually be:

MP: 8.1% (still lower than modern day North Africa)

PP: 0.9%

So without your artificial inflation for the present population of that place, then your "calculation":

So 26/916 gives 2.83 %
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should be like this:

Alvarez et al. (2007) found 9 L lineages out of 312 (2.90%) [I have not been able to access this paper so far, so I can't check if you also manipulated the data to suit your obvious agenda, so for the moment being it will have to pass.]

Pereira et al. (2005) found 8 L lineages out of 496 (1.61%)

Casas et al. (2006) found 1 sub-Saharan (L1-L2) lineage out of 108 in Priego de Cordoba (0.9%, very low! )

So 18/916 gives 1.96%

whereas in England you get only 2 sequences for the same sample size which is about 0.2 % and 15 times lower.
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Funny how you very "casually" "forgot" that one of your very own sources, Pereira et al. 2005, cites 1% among the British.
 
luis77 said:
So apart from Basque Country and Catalonia, we see that Spain has an average > 2% without parallel in the rest of Europe...
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Really? Again "mysteriously" "forgetting" some of your very own sources, like Pereira et al. 2005, which cites 2.38% among Albanians and 2% among Finns.
 
^ lynx ^ said:
Actually, if you look at the "history" of that wikipedia article, you'll see that it was recently modified. These machupichus never give up. :useless:
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If you think that's bad, take a look at what these Afrocentric/Nordicist/Race-denying trolls and charlatans did with the old article "sub-Saharan admixture in Europe", which was pretty balanced. They erased it, and turned it into an obvious joke of an article called "African Admixture in Europe", chock-full of carefully selected data, lies, manipulations, obsolete stuff (HLA genes, immunoglobulin allotypes, etc.) while effectively barring more current and valid research, like STRUCTURE studies. Go to the discussion section and you will see how the main Afrocentrist there (Muntuwandi/Wapondaponda), in cahoots with several others, managed to bar Small Victory from putting some order and objectivity there.

Spaniards interested in such topics should be very concerned about this, as immediately after Portugal, Spain is the #1 European target of these dishonest charlatans. The average Joe who consults such Wikipedia articles just assumes they are accurate and objective, when in reality many times they are neither. More Spanish people with a good knowledge of genetics should get involved in such Wikipedia articles and correct a lot of this misinformation.
 
Drac said:
If you think that's bad, take a look at what these Afrocentric/Nordicist/Race-denying trolls and charlatans did with the old article "sub-Saharan admixture in Europe", which was pretty balanced. They erased it, and turned it into an obvious joke of an article called "African Admixture in Europe", chock-full of carefully selected data, lies, manipulations, obsolete stuff (HLA genes, immunoglobulin allotypes, etc.) while effectively barring more current and valid research, like STRUCTURE studies. Go to the discussion section and you will see how the main Afrocentrist there (Muntuwandi/Wapondaponda), in cahoots with several others, managed to bar Small Victory from putting some order and objectivity there.

Spaniards interested in such topics should be very concerned about this, as immediately after Portugal, Spain is the #1 European target of these dishonest charlatans. The average Joe who consults such Wikipedia articles just assumes they are accurate and objective, when in reality many times they are neither. More Spanish people with a good knowledge of genetics should get involved in such Wikipedia articles and correct a lot of this misinformation.
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Thanks much... I'm hardly surprised. You have to wonder if these people are not escapees from mental institutions. Again, I get back to the point I have repeatedly made: the general public is poorly educated and easily duped by this rubbish. BTW, Wikipedia has demonstrated it is grossly incompetent when it comes to site management.
 
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luis77 said:
Norway 0/556
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In another recent study [3] on Norwegians, an L2 Sub-Saharan African sequence was found in the sample of 74 Norwegians (1.4% Sub-Saharan admixture).

[ 3]. Giuseppe Passarino et al., Different genetic components in the Norwegian population revealed by the analysis of mtDNA and Y chromosome polymorphisms, European Journal of Human Genetics10, 521 - 529 (23 Aug 2002)
 
LondonResultsMtdna_b.jpg


I find the source article of this map btw.

http://www.museumoflondon.org.uk/En...ine/features/general/excavating_ourselves.htm
 
Here is a another mtDNA map, it's old though :

4v6nh4x.gif
 
Suprise!Suprise! I know this will hurt some bloody feelings :( , but I found a study that said only 0.00% of Spaniards have L (sample size 686)
sources

:Human mitochondrial DNA as a molecular tool for population studies; the case of North Morocco:
 
Aytin said:
Suprise!Suprise! I know this will hurt some bloody feelings :( , but I found a study that said only 0.00% of Spaniards have L (sample size 686)
sources

:Human mitochondrial DNA as a molecular tool for population studies; the case of North Morocco:
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Thanks for that reference. The study can be found here:

http://biotech-events.ifrance.com/Conferences-2006.html

The authors separated the region of Andalusia, in Southern Spain, from the rest of the country. No L mtDNA was found in the 686 non-Andalusian Spanish sample, and only 1.9% was found among the 158 Andalusian sample. If we "pool" all the samples together (686 + 158 = 844) that gives a total frequency of 0.35% for the whole country (a lower frequency than other studies have found for places like Finland, Albania, Italy, Germany, etc.)

Gee, I wonder if our Brazillian troll "friend" (or any of his equally dishonest buddies who have hijacked the "African Admixture" joke-of-an-article) will rush to WikiPedia to put this data? LOL! Methinks that such a thing is not on the priority list of their transparent agenda.
 
Thanks Aytin, it's good to see the truth prevail.
 
My thanks as well Aytin.
 
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