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Thread: Normans vikings

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    Normans vikings

    Why vikings kept their own language during occupation of iceland ? and why contrawisely they didnot kept their own language in normandy in france where they just gave the name only normandy ? Was this because of the strength of french people ?

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    Iceland was not inhabited when the Vikings arrived, so they kept their language.

    France was the most populous European country in the middle ages (there were almost 20 million people already in 1345, 6 times more than in England at the same time !). When the Vikings arrived in Normandy, they were absorbed by the larger French population. They adopted more sophisticated French customs as well as their language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Iceland was not inhabited when the Vikings arrived, so they kept their language.

    France was the most populous European country in the middle ages (there were almost 20 million people already in 1345, 6 times more than in England at the same time !). When the Vikings arrived in Normandy, they were absorbed by the larger French population. They adopted more sophisticated French customs as well as their language.
    ok just a question Mr ,Is it right that Franks were speaking latin language when they invaded gallo-romans people(modern day france) contrawisely to anglo-saxons who were having germanic tongue during the invasion of britain?
    and there is a note ,Is it right that franks` germanic language turned in to latin after the occupation of romans to salian franks? and is it right that after turning in to latin tongue they managed to invade gallo-romans(modern days france)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    France was the most populous European country in the middle ages (there were almost 20 million people already in 1345, 6 times more than in England at the same time !). When the Vikings arrived in Normandy, they were absorbed by the larger French population. They adopted more sophisticated French customs as well as their language.
    Spot on. Being Norman, they had ambitions far outside Normandy, inclduing the French throne. Being part of - and separate from - the French, it was part of their tactics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Spot on. Being Norman, they had ambitions far outside Normandy, inclduing the French throne. Being part of - and separate from - the French, it was part of their tactics.
    At the time France was just a big jigsaw puzzle composed of dozens of de facto independent duchies and counties, though officially vassal of the king of France. The King of France only possessed a small territory around Paris, known as l'Ile de France ("the island of France", a good metaphor of how isolated the king was). The Duke of Burgundy, for instance, remained more powerful than the King of France until the end of the Hundred Years' War.

    But the Normans, despite being Scandinavians, quickly became more Frenchified than the southern half of France. Norman French language was much closer to Parisian French than it was to Occitan languages like Gascon, Languedoc, Auvergnat or Provencal.

    Northern French people also has an admixture of Gallo-Roman and Germanic blood through the Franks (from Paris and Picardy to Champagne and Artois), Burgunds (in Burgundy) or Suebi (in Alsace). So Normandy was not an ethnic exception but rather the rule in northern France. They were just the last Germanic tribe to arrive.

    Even after conquering England, the Normans remained thoroughly French for over 300 years. They kept speaking French in England, and at one point half of their possession were in France, once they had acquired Brittany and Aquitaine by marriage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    At the time France was just a big jigsaw puzzle composed of dozens of de facto independent duchies and counties, though officially vassal of the king of France. The King of France only possessed a small territory around Paris, known as l'Ile de France ("the island of France", a good metaphor of how isolated the king was). The Duke of Burgundy, for instance, remained more powerful than the King of France until the end of the Hundred Years' War.

    But the Normans, despite being Scandinavians, quickly became more Frenchified than the southern half of France. Norman French language was much closer to Parisian French than it was to Occitan languages like Gascon, Languedoc, Auvergnat or Provencal.

    Northern French people also has an admixture of Gallo-Roman and Germanic blood through the Franks (from Paris and Picardy to Champagne and Artois), Burgunds (in Burgundy) or Suebi (in Alsace). So Normandy was not an ethnic exception but rather the rule in northern France. They were just the last Germanic tribe to arrive.

    Even after conquering England, the Normans remained thoroughly French for over 300 years. They kept speaking French in England, and at one point half of their possession were in France, once they had acquired Brittany and Aquitaine by marriage.
    My mind didnot understand yet ,Iam really sorry for inconvenience to you Mr just i want to know if the franks during the invasion of gauls were speaking romance language or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by motatalea View Post
    My mind didnot understand yet ,Iam really sorry for inconvenience to you Mr just i want to know if the franks during the invasion of gauls were speaking romance language or not?
    I already explained this to you in another thread. I don't like repeating myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I already explained this to you in another thread. I don't like repeating myself.
    yea indeed ,iam sorry ,just i forgot that you are answered me a question like this ,................ take care

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    I agree with Chris.
    The Scandinavians in Normandy were relatively few in number, mostly male, and they married French-speaking women so they became culturally and linguistically French in a few generations.

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    Probably the same reason they converted to Christianity and stopped worshiping Thor etc; easier to blend in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidCoutts View Post
    Probably the same reason they converted to Christianity and stopped worshiping Thor etc; easier to blend in.
    Culturally, the Normans were masters at assimilating into territories they occupied. It's staggering that in less than 200 years, they became Norman French - not Viking settlers - and in Sicily, they gained passive and active support from various Muslim inhabitants.

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    Yet from 1258 the Normans were officially not the rulers of their own domain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hus View Post
    Yet from 1258 the Normans were officially not the rulers of their own domain?
    In terms of absolute monarchy? If so, true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vallicanus View Post
    I agree with Chris.
    The Scandinavians in Normandy were relatively few in number, mostly male, and they married French-speaking women so they became culturally and linguistically French in a few generations.
    Sure, but Normans still remained of Scandinavian inheritance by their paternal lineage.

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    The Duke of Normandy was the most powerful person in France and William the Conqueror, or Bastard, (as he was illegitimate) was the Duke of Normandy who conquered England. He preferred being a King rather than just a Duke.

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    between their first "visits" in France and William the bastard passed about 200 years - the viking culture was more or less over, I think they were "fallen" in the feudal system of gaining alliances, lands and power by marriages, politics more based upon individual complicated links than upon ethnic and linguistic basis... today they would have bought capital parts in place of it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    between their first "visits" in France and William the bastard passed about 200 years - the viking culture was more or less over, I think they were "fallen" in the feudal system of gaining alliances, lands and power by marriages, politics more based upon individual complicated links than upon ethnic and linguistic basis... today they would have bought capital parts in place of it...
    True. They took pride in their lineage (hence the patriarchal - aka Y DNA) but your summary is accurate.

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    Speaking of William the Conquerer... anyone have any ideas on his mother's nationality/ethnic heritage.

    I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nordicquarreler View Post
    Speaking of William the Conquerer... anyone have any ideas on his mother's nationality/ethnic heritage.

    I do.
    Tell us :P

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    My ancestry is Norman/ French. I once heard William the Conqueror described as a Frenchman with the blood of his Scandinavian ancestors running through his veins. The Normans were masters at adopting to whatever culture they conquered.

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    That's because males were alone in their campaigns.It's always easier to integrate then.
    North America-whole families settled,segregation problems till today.
    South America-mostly males settled,times higher miscgenation rates.

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    This is quite curious, what you have said. My mothers family history indicates that the majority of her family is from mostly Normandy, 2nd most are from Brittany, and 3rd most are from Burgundy as well as few in Aquitaine. It makes me wonder just how Viking-ish I am. Though I consider myself mostly Celtic historically, and in modern terms mostly Romance. Though maybe I'm more Scandinavian as well.

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