R-L21* in Germany Thus Far

[rms2]

Here is a list of surnames and places of ancestral origin of the German and German-Swiss men I know about who are R-L21*. Once again, keep in mind that L21 is an SNP that was just discovered last October and that was not included in Family Tree DNA's Deep Clade-R test until late January of 2009.

1. Lurz - Draas, Romania (ethnic German minority)
2. Marth - Baden-Württemberg
3. Kepler - Baden-Württemberg
4. Hammann - Rheinland-Pfalz
5. Wigand - Bayern (Bavaria)
6. Fix - Rheinland-Pfalz
7. Schneider - Rheinland-Pfalz
8. Bronk - Rheinland-Pfalz
9. Krüger - Posen (modern Poznan, Poland)
10. Wolken - Ostfriesland
11. Meili - Zürich, Switzerland
12. Hannold - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is common in Baden-Württemberg)
13. Puderbach - Rheinland-Pfalz
14. Müller - Bayern
15. Roland - Baden-Württemberg
16. Fankhauser - Trub, Switzerland
17. Weidner - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is most common in Thüringen and Bayern)
18. Tiedemann - Niedersachsen
19. Kastler - Wahlern, Switzerland
20. Heil - Hessen
21. Reininger - Baden-Württemberg
22. Becker - Rheinland-Pfalz

[rms2]

Updating the list to add a new one.

1. Lurz - Draas, Romania (ethnic German minority)
2. Marth - Baden-Württemberg
3. Kepler - Baden-Württemberg
4. Hammann - Rheinland-Pfalz
5. Wigand - Bayern (Bavaria)
6. Fix - Rheinland-Pfalz
7. Schneider - Rheinland-Pfalz
8. Bronk - Rheinland-Pfalz
9. Krüger - Posen (modern Poznan, Poland)
10. Wolken - Ostfriesland
11. Meili - Zürich, Switzerland
12. Hannold - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is common in Baden-Württemberg)
13. Puderbach - Rheinland-Pfalz
14. Müller - Bayern
15. Roland - Baden-Württemberg
16. Fankhauser - Trub, Switzerland
17. Weidner - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is most common in Thüringen and Bayern)
18. Tiedemann - Niedersachsen
19. Kastler - Wahlern, Switzerland
20. Heil - Hessen
21. Reininger - Baden-Württemberg
22. Becker - Rheinland-Pfalz
23. Immler - Bayern

[Maciamo]

You can just click on "Edit post" if you are just adding one line.

[rms2]

You can just click on "Edit post" if you are just adding one line.

But would anyone see the post or notice the addition?

Wouldn't the thread just drift fruther down the list and eventually onto page two?

[Maciamo]

I always edit posts when I only make a minor modification, even months later. If there is enough new content then I create a new post.

[rms2]

Since I have a couple more entries to add, I suppose it won't hurt to update the list and thereby bump this thread up.

1. Lurz - Draas, Romania (ethnic German minority)
2. Marth - Baden-Württemberg
3. Kepler - Baden-Württemberg
4. Hammann - Rheinland-Pfalz
5. Wigand - Bayern (Bavaria)
6. Fix - Rheinland-Pfalz
7. Schneider - Rheinland-Pfalz
8. Bronk - Rheinland-Pfalz
9. Krüger - Posen (modern Poznan, Poland)
10. Wolken - Ostfriesland
11. Meili - Zürich, Switzerland
12. Hannold - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is common in Baden-Württemberg)
13. Puderbach - Rheinland-Pfalz
14. Müller - Bayern
15. Roland - Baden-Württemberg
16. Fankhauser - Trub, Switzerland
17. Weidner - Germany (exact location unknown, but the surname is most common in Thüringen and Bayern)
18. Tiedemann - Niedersachsen
19. Kastler - Wahlern, Switzerland
20. Heil - Hessen
21. Reininger - Baden-Württemberg
22. Becker - Rheinland-Pfalz
23. Immler - Bayern
24. Haupt - Bayern
25. Althoff - Nordrhein-Westfalen

[rms2]

We have a new German R-L21* today: Waibel, whose ancestor came from Bad Hindelang in southern Bavaria, down near the Austrian border.

[rms2]

By the way, that makes five Bavarians thus far; six, if one counts Goblirsch (a Bavarian surname) over in Bohemia in the Czech Republic.

[rms2]

There is a new German R-L21 as of this morning: Feldman (Feltmann), Ysearch 674QH. His ancestor was born in Westerkappeln in Nordrhein-Westfalen, just northwest of Osnabrück.

(Just as an aside, recall that Hubert said the Goidels probably came from the area of Nordrhein-Westfalen.)

[Taranis]

I have a question (sorry that I ask, first post here): what is the origin of L21, or can it be associated with any ancient cultures/peoples?

[rms2]

I have a question (sorry that I ask, first post here): what is the origin of L21, or can it be associated with any ancient cultures/peoples?

Thus far, it appears to have a connection to the ancient Celts, but it may go back to the Beaker Folk of the Bronze Age.

[Taranis]

Thus far, it appears to have a connection to the ancient Celts, but it may go back to the Beaker Folk of the Bronze Age.

Oh yes, I see your point!

Hmm... if you compare the distribution of L21 (well, I'm not up to date, I don't know how accurate my... well... actually mental map is ) with the spread of the Celts and the Beakers, there is a fairly good correlation with both (even though I wonder why L21 seems to be so rare in Iberia).

However, as I ponder on that now, there is something that makes me think perhaps there is a closer correlation with the Beaker culture, namely that L21 is rather common in Scandinavia as well, wheras the Celts obviously never were in Scandinavia. Now, as far as I know, Beaker material has been found in Jutland. Since this was long before the Germanic ethnogenesis, it would be conceivable how the Germanic peoples inherited their share of L21.

Oh, yes and I could imagine that L21 creates a "false signal" in Britain in regard for that old "acculturalization vs. immigration" dispute, because both the Britons and the Anglo-Saxons had their shares of L21 (assuming the Beaker hypothesis is correct).

[rms2]

Oh yes, I see your point!

Hmm... if you compare the distribution of L21 (well, I'm not up to date, I don't know how accurate my... well... actually mental map is ) with the spread of the Celts and the Beakers, there is a fairly good correlation with both (even though I wonder why L21 seems to be so rare in Iberia).

However, as I ponder on that now, there is something that makes me think perhaps there is a closer correlation with the Beaker culture, namely that L21 is rather common in Scandinavia as well, wheras the Celts obviously never were in Scandinavia. Now, as far as I know, Beaker material has been found in Jutland. Since this was long before the Germanic ethnogenesis, it would be conceivable how the Germanic peoples inherited their share of L21.

Oh, yes and I could imagine that L21 creates a "false signal" in Britain in regard for that old "acculturalization vs. immigration" dispute, because both the Britons and the Anglo-Saxons had their shares of L21 (assuming the Beaker hypothesis is correct).

Right, except that things have changed lately regarding L21 in Iberia. L21 is not rare there, as one can see from a quick glance at the Y-DNA Results page of the Iberian Peninsula DNA Project ("R1b1b2a1b5" is FTDNA's designation for R-L21):

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

[cwrigh28]

This thread might be a little old, but I am L-21 and my oldest paternal ancestor that I can find was Frederick Reith of Hannover, Lower Saxony Germany. He was born in 1836 and immigrated to the USA.

[SwissCelt]

First post here...I am L21 and my family lineage is from Northwestern Switzerland. We came to Pennsylvania in 1736 from Rothenfluh Switzerland. I am currently testing at FTDNA with an L21 SNP pack just to see what turns up. As soon as the Gods smile on me with some real $$$, I will pull the trigger on the Y700. My surname is Martin (Marti back in Switzerland)

[Remund]

Have BIG Y test results due next month - Family name Remund traces back to Muhlberg Switzerland 1530, tested positive for R-L21. Family came to America in 1855.