R-L21* in France Thus Far

[rms2]

Here is a list of the French R-L21* I know about thus far. It is not necessarily exhaustive. These are ancestral surnames and locations. Keep in mind that L21 is an SNP that was just discovered last October and that was not included in Family Tree DNA's Deep Clade-R test until late January of 2009.

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
3. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
4. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
5. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Poitou-Charentes, Charente-Maritime, France
6. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
7. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
8. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
9. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
10. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
11. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
12. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
13. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
14. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
15. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

There is a 16th person if one includes Bonnet, whose ancestry is Savoyard from Piemonte, Italy.

That's not bad for a drastically under tested region and a fairly newly-discovered SNP.

[rms2]

I just spotted a brand new R-L21* in the French Heritage Project, Cartier, kit 82258 (scroll down to the Cs; the entries are alphabetical):

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/French-Canadian%20Heritage%20DNA%20Project/default.aspx?section=yresults

Hopefully, he'll join the R-L21 Plus Project.

I know the surname Cartier looks a lot like Chartier, the surname of a man who is already a member of the R-L21 Plus Project, but the haplotypes don't match. Different line.

[rms2]

Updating the list to add Cartier and Grenier. Interesting that Cartier's ancestor came from Drain, the same town that the ancestor of #16, Sicher, came from.

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
6. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Poitou-Charentes, Charente-Maritime, France
7. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
8. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
9. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
10. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
11. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
12. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
13. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
14. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
15. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
16. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
17. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

[secherbernard]

Updating the list to add Cartier and Grenier. Interesting that Cartier's ancestor came from Drain, the same town that the ancestor of #16, Sicher, came from.

Wow, so we can create now the R-L21 club of Drain
For a city of about 1700 inhabitants: that's great!!

Bernard

[rms2]

Wow, so we can create now the R-L21 club of Drain
For a city of about 1700 inhabitants: that's great!!

Bernard

It's pretty amazing, I think.

If you look at this map (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...ibes_Towns.png) of Gaul circa 58 BC, you will see that the Pictones lived just south of the Loire, apparently in the vicinity of Drain. Just across the river, though, and perhaps somewhat on the Drain side, were the Andes and the Namnetes. I'm pretty sure the Namnetes gave their name to Nantes.

One of my own ancestors on my father's side, Paul Micou, came from Nantes.

Anyway, we seem to be doing pretty well in Gallia Celtica and Gallia Belgica, but there are no L21s thus far in old Aquitania. I think we have one in Gallia Narbonensis, that is, if Grenoble is located in what was Narbonensis.

[secherbernard]

It's pretty amazing, I think.

If you look at this map of Gaul circa 58 BC, you will see that the Pictones lived just south of the Loire, apparently in the vicinity of Drain. Just across the river, though, and perhaps somewhat on the Drain side, were the Andes and the Namnetes. I'm pretty sure the Namnetes gave their name to Nantes.

One of my own ancestors on my father's side, Paul Micou, came from Nantes.

Anyway, we seem to be doing pretty well in Gallia Celtica and Gallia Belgica, but there are no L21s thus far in old Aquitania. I think we have one in Gallia Narbonensis, that is, if Grenoble is located in what was Narbonensis.

Yes, you are right Rich: Drain was not so far from the limits between Namnetes, Andes and Pictones during Gaulish times, and then from the limits between Brittany, Anjou and Poitou during middle ages.
Namnetes gives the name to Nantes, Andes gives the name to Angers (Anjou), Pictones gives the name to Poitiers (Poitou).

The region of Drain (Les Mauges) was the center of different conflicts between dukes of Poitou, Anjou and Brittany during middle ages.

In the beginning The Mauges belong to Poitou. But following Viking invasions in 9th century, tke king of France created a new county: the county of Herbauges from a part of Poitou and from Nantes county which belonged to Brittany.

The breton Alain Barbe-Torte defeated the Vikings and then took possession of Herbauges county. But Alain Barbe-Torte died a few years after, and his wife got married with Foulque Le Bon duke of Anjou. Then The Mauges belonged to Anjou.

Henri Hubert, in his book on the celts, think it is possible that Pictones of the Loire Valley are related to Picts of Scotland. He speak about the Cone d'Avanton: one of the golden hat found in Poitou. This object seems to show that celts were present in Poitou in 1000 BC.

Bernard

[rms2]

Yes, you are right Rich: Drain was not so far from the limits between Namnetes, Andes and Pictones during Gaulish times, and then from the limits between Brittany, Anjou and Poitou during middle ages.
Namnetes gives the name to Nantes, Andes gives the name to Angers (Anjou), Pictones gives the name to Poitiers (Poitou).

The region of Drain (Les Mauges) was the center of different conflicts between dukes of Poitou, Anjou and Brittany during middle ages.

In the beginning The Mauges belong to Poitou. But following Viking invasions in 9th century, tke king of France created a new county: the county of Herbauges from a part of Poitou and from Nantes county which belonged to Brittany.

The breton Alain Barbe-Torte defeated the Vikings and then took possession of Herbauges county. But Alain Barbe-Torte died a few years after, and his wife got married with Foulque Le Bon duke of Anjou. Then The Mauges belonged to Anjou.

Henri Hubert, in his book on the celts, think it is possible that Pictones of the Loire Valley are related to Picts of Scotland. He speak about the Cone d'Avanton: one of the golden hat found in Poitou. This object seems to show that celts were present in Poitou in 1000 BC.

Bernard

I was just reading about some of that in Koch's book, An Atlas for Celtic Studies. In it, Map 17 shows the area in greater detail than the map at the link I posted before. It shows the Celtic tribe the Andecavi in the region of Drain, just south of the Loire (then called the Liger). The Pictones were much farther south. The Namnetes were to the west of the Andecavi, around Condevincum (Nantes) and the mouth of the Loire.

That whole area (the Loire Valley) is rich in Celtic artifacts, especially bronze and iron swords.

Those Golden Hats are interesting, too. All of them were found in or near places where L21 has been found.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that L21 may have come down the Rhine Valley, turned left (west) in the Low Countries, moved into Northern France, and crossed the Channel into the British Isles from there. That's a downhill route most of the way, and Northern France is a level plain, isn't it?

[rms2]

Bernard -

It is interesting that you mentioned Hubert and his connecting of the British Picts and the Gallic Pictones. He also connects the Brigantes, the Parisii, and the Cassi of the Continent to the British tribes of the same names, which makes sense to me.

On pages 214-215 of his book, The History of the Celtic People, Hubert says, "There were Parisii in the neighbourhood of modern Paris. The Brigantes came from Switzerland and Upper Bavaria; Bregenz was originally Brigantum, and Cambodunum (Kempten) was a town of the Brigantes. They founded another Cambodunum on the road from York to Chester . . . The Cassi must have belonged to the same group as the Veliocasses, Viducasses, Baiocasses, and Tricasses; this group perhaps gave its name to Hessen.

The presence of the Parisii, Brigantes, and Cassi among the Britons shows that they were related to the Celtic peoples of the Continent, and also points to the part of the Celtic world in which we should look for the origins of which they preserved the tradition."

[rms2]

Here's an updated list.

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
7. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Poitou-Charentes, Charente-Maritime, France
8. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
9. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
10. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
11. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
12. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
13. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
14. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
15. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
16. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
17. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
18. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
19. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

I would like to encourage men of French ancestry to order a y-dna test from Family Tree DNA and, if they are R1b, to follow up with the Deep Clade-R test (which includes L21) or the L21 test as a stand-alone test. The Deep Clade-R can be ordered from a link on one's "Haplotree" page. L21 can be ordered as a separate test from FTDNA's "Advanced Orders" menu.

[rms2]

Updating the list with a new French R-L21*, La Tour (#13):

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
7. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Poitou-Charentes, Charente-Maritime, France
8. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
9. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
10. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
11. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
12. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
13. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
14. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
15. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
16. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
17. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
18. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
19. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
20. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

Peyrignac, where La Tour's ancestor came from, although in the modern department of Aquitaine, is not in old, historic Aquitania. It is north of the Garonne River in what Caesar called Gallia Celtica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...ibes_Towns.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MapGaronne.jpg

[Cambrius (The Red)]

Here is a list of the French R-L21* I know about thus far. It is not necessarily exhaustive. These are ancestral surnames and locations. Keep in mind that L21 is an SNP that was just discovered last October and that was not included in Family Tree DNA's Deep Clade-R test until late January of 2009.
1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
3. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
4. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
5. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Poitou-Charentes, Charente-Maritime, France
6. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
7. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
8. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
9. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
10. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
11. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
12. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
13. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
14. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
15. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
There is a 16th person if one includes Bonnet, whose ancestry is Savoyard from Piemonte, Italy.
That's not bad for a drastically under tested region and a fairly newly-discovered SNP.

What is your overall total thus far?

[Maciamo]

Looks like L21 covers most of central France between Brittany and the Alps, but with a higher density in the Loire Valley and Brittany.

[rms2]

Looks like L21 covers most of central France between Brittany and the Alps, but with a higher density in the Loire Valley and Brittany.

It's hard to say, really. Thus far most of those tested have been from NW France, but I think that is due to the fact that most French Canadians (the biggest source of our recruitment pool of those of French ancestry) came from that region.

Over this past summer we recruited a number of men of French ancestry for testing. The recruitment turned out to be a random set of R1b1b2 of French ancestry, since we found we couldn't really select out those who would be L21+ from all the other R1b1b2. Overall, 50% of those tested have turned out to be L21+. In Northern France the figure is 60%.

I plan to post the complete set of testing figures once the dust settles and all our recruits have results, but we still have several who are awaiting results. Needless to say, it seems obvious that R-L21 is well represented in France, especially Northern France, where it may reach levels equal to or greater than those in England (which is saying a lot).

Another thing to consider is the large number of R-L21 in Western Germany. My own feeling is that there is probably a band of R-L21 running from Germany through Northern France and that enough testing in Eastern France would fill in what now looks like a gap on the map between the Germans and French.

[rms2]

Updating the list with two more, Dupuis (#7) and Lefeber (#17):

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
7. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
8. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
10. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
11. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
12. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
13. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
14. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
15. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
16. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
17. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
18. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
19. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
20. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
21. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
22. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

Lefeber is German and traces his most distant y-dna ancestor to eastern Germany but is ultimately of French Huguenot origin.

[rms2]

Updating the list with two more: Landry (#14) and Lessard (#19):

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
7. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
8. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
10. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
11. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
12. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
13. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
14. Landry - La Ventrouze, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
15. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
16. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
17. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
18. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
19. Lessard - Chambois, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
20. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
21. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
22. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
23. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
24. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

That makes five Normans so far.

We also picked up a new R-L21* from Pratz, Luxembourg: Conrardy.

[rms2]

Updating the list with two more: Landry (#14) and Lessard (#19):

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
7. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
8. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
10. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
11. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
12. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
13. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
14. Landry - La Ventrouze, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
15. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
16. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
17. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
18. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
19. Lessard - Chambois, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
20. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
21. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
22. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
23. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
24. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

That makes five Normans so far.

We also picked up a new R-L21* from Pratz, Luxembourg: Conrardy.

Add a sixth Norman: Leprovost, who tested L21+ (rs11799226=G) with 23andMe. His ancestor came from Lithaire, Manche, in Basse-Normandie.

[rms2]

I have started the Normandy Y-DNA Project at Family Tree DNA:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...y/default.aspx

WHO CAN JOIN?
Anyone who can actually trace his y-dna (father-to-son) line back to Haute-Normandie, Basse-Normandie, or the Channel Islands (Îles Anglo-Normandes) of Jersey or Guernsey is eligible to join the Normandy Y-DNA Project.

Women can join the Normandy Y-DNA Project by submitting the y-dna test results of a male relative who meets the project membership requirements.

Note: Merely finding that one's surname might have come to the British Isles with the Normans, and/or that a possible earlier French version of it exists, does not by itself constitute tracing one's y-dna line to Normandy.

This project is really for those who can actually trace their y-dna ancestry back to Normandy. I realize there are many folks with ancestry in the British Isles who think they are or may be descended from one or more of the Normans who came with William the Conqueror, but one should have pretty solid evidence of that before joining the Normandy Y-DNA Project.

[rms2]

Updating the list.

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Doucet (Doucet Laverdure) - Sedan, Ardennes, Champagne-Ardenne, France
7. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
8. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
10. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
11. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
12. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
13. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
14. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
15. Landry - La Ventrouze, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
16. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
17. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
18. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
19. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
20. Leprovost - Lithaire, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
21. Lessard - Chambois, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
22. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
23. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
24. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
25. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
26. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

[rms2]

Updating the list.

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Doucet (Doucet Laverdure) - La Ferté-Gaucher, Seine-et-Marne, Île-de-France, France
7. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
8. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
10. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
11. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
12. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
13. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
14. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
15. Landry - La Ventrouze, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
16. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
17. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
18. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
19. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
20. Leprovost - Lithaire, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
21. Lessard - Chambois, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
22. Martin (Pelland) - Péaule, Morbihan, Bretagne, France
23. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
24. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
25. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
26. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
27. St. Jorre dit Sergerie (St. Jacques) - Le Rocher, Manche, Basse-
Normandie, France
28. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France

[rms2]

Updating the list with two new ones, Schneider (#26) and Wendling (#30). Both have German surnames, as you probably noticed, and have ancestors who came from Lorraine and Alsace respectively.

(It's snowing like crazy here where I live. We've already shoveled the driveway three times, but it's buried again. I'm bored - might as well update this thread.)

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Doucet (Doucet Laverdure) - La Ferté-Gaucher, Seine-et-Marne, Île-de-France, France
7. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
8. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
10. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
11. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
12. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
13. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
14. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
15. Landry - La Ventrouze, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
16. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
17. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
18. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
19. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
20. Leprovost - Lithaire, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
21. Lessard - Chambois, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
22. Martin (Pelland) - Péaule, Morbihan, Bretagne, France
23. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
24. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
25. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
26. Schneider - Montbronn, Moselle, Lorraine, France
27. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
28. St. Jorre dit Sergerie (St. Jacques) - Le Rocher, Manche, Basse-
Normandie, France
29. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
30. Wendling - Kindwiller, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France

[rms2]

Updating the list to add Hebert (#14), Labelle (#16), and Rideau (#27), all of whom got their L21+ results in the last two days, and to correct the birthplace for the ancestor of Landry (#17).

1. Bontron-Major - Montussaint, Doubs, Franche-Comte, France
2. Cartier - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
3. Chartier - Quebec, Canada
4. Delahoussaye - Paris, Île-de-France, France
5. DePort - Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
6. Doucet (Doucet Laverdure) - La Ferté-Gaucher, Seine-et-Marne, Île-de-France, France
7. Dubois - Dieppe, Seine-Maritime, Haute-Normandie, France
8. Dupuis - La Chaussée, Vienne, Poitou-Charentes, France
9. Dussault (Dusceau) - La Rochelle, Charente-Maritime, Poitou-Charentes, France
10. Gery - Morlaix, Finistère, Bretagne, France
11. Gignoux - Grenoble, Isere, Rhone-Alpes, France
12. Grenier - Northern France (exact city or town unknown)
13. Hamon - Le Bourgneuf-la-Forêt, Mayenne, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
14. Hebert - Descartes, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
15. Huet - Dol-de-Bretagne, Ille-et-Vilaine, Bretagne, France
16. Labelle - Saint-Benoît-d'Hébertot, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France
17. Landry - Neuilly-sur-Eure, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
18. La Tour - Peyrignac, Dordogne, Aquitaine, France
19. Le Bras - Brasparts, Finistère, Bretagne, France
20. Le Com - Chateauneuf-du-Faou, Finistère, Bretagne, France
21. Lefeber - France (exact location unknown)
22. Leprovost - Lithaire, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
23. Lessard - Chambois, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France
24. Martin (Pelland) - Péaule, Morbihan, Bretagne, France
25. Mireault (Amirault) - Tours, Indre-et-Loire, Centre, France
26. Mylott (Millot) - Villers-le-Sec, Haute-Marne, Champagne-Ardenne, France
27. Rideau - France (exact location unknown)
28. Rotrou- Cloyes-sur-le-Loir, Eure-et-Loir, Centre, France
29. Schneider - Montbronn, Moselle, Lorraine, France
30. Sicher - Drain, Maine-et-Loire, Pays-de-la-Loire, France
31. St. Jorre dit Sergerie (St. Jacques) - Le Rocher, Manche, Basse-
Normandie, France
32. Turpin - Brécey, Manche, Basse-Normandie, France
33. Wendling - Kindwiller, Bas-Rhin, Alsace, France

[Wilhelm]

What about Spain ? 7% has been found in Cantabria and 1.6% in Extremadura

[rms2]

What about Spain ? 7% has been found in Cantabria and 1.6% in Extremadura

7% of what sample size? 1.6% of what sample size?

Thus far quite a few Iberian guys have been tested. Very few are L21+. R-P312*, R-SRY2627, and R-M153 are far more common in Iberia than L21.

Believe me, I have recruited Iberian guys for testing. L21+ results are few and far between. I expect some to turn up eventually, especially in Galicia, but they just haven't yet.

[aktiva]

Andre Sire came to Quebec c. 1668..........from Fontenay le Compte and is positive P312 and L21.........

Interestingly there is an old book pre 1900 which lists ancient families from Poitou who were originally from Geneva Switzerland..........and the Lesuire family is amongst them.

Lesuire is the actual spelling from France........

This would make sense as Switzerland and the Italian region Alps are the ancestral homes for P312 and L21........

Certain of these Helvetian Celts drifted north int southern Germany and Belgic areas............while others drifted into the Rhone Valley and down to the Po Valley.

My understanding is that in France DNA testing is restricted to research purposes only, thus the lack of contribution from them for comparison.

[rms2]

Andre Sire came to Quebec c. 1668..........from Fontenay le Compte and is positive P312 and L21.........

Interestingly there is an old book pre 1900 which lists ancient families from Poitou who were originally from Geneva Switzerland..........and the Lesuire family is amongst them.

Lesuire is the actual spelling from France........

This would make sense as Switzerland and the Italian region Alps are the ancestral homes for P312 and L21........

Certain of these Helvetian Celts drifted north int southern Germany and Belgic areas............while others drifted into the Rhone Valley and down to the Po Valley.

My understanding is that in France DNA testing is restricted to research purposes only, thus the lack of contribution from them for comparison.

Please join the R-L21 Plus Project!

Here is the link you can use to join:

http://www.familytreedna.com/group-j...roup=R-L21Plus