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Thread: Predicted haplogroups of early Middle Eastern civilizations

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    It is impossible. Judaism as a religion was created gradually from 1.000 BC until 500 BC, as a reaction to Philistine invaders.
    I think this is much more older than 3000 years bp
    Nico

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    I think this is much more older than 3000 years bp
    It was Proto-albanian tribe of Philistines who occupied hebrews and make them slaves.

    In the 1000 BC the David liberated hebrews, when killed Goliath (Illyrian or proto-albanian hero/philistine), and then they created judaic religion, in the base of judaic politheism, but they eliminated other gods except of JHVH.

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    there is no connection between Philistines and Albanians unless you believe that the Sea Peoples were proto-Albanians (which is obviously wrong). Do you have any sources supporting this or is it an other ''Albanians-Pelasgians-the oldest Europeans'' thing?

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    Ezekiel 25:16

    translation of 70 first and best attemp from Hebrew to Koine

    16 διὰ τοῦτο τάδε λέγει κύριος ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐκτενῶ τὴν χεῖρά μου ἐπὶ τοὺς ἀλλοφύλους καὶ ἐξολεθρεύσω κρῆτας καὶ ἀπολῶ τοὺς καταλοίπους τοὺς κατοικοῦντας τὴν παραλίαν

    I wlll kill all Cretans and the rest who live at the shore

    Phillistines Belong to Minoan Branch of Pelasgic, not the Illyrian

    city of Avaris (Abaris) etc

  5. #30
    בלי עין הרע Semitic Duwa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    It is impossible. Judaism as a religion was created gradually from 1.000 BC until 500 BC, as a reaction to Philistine invaders.
    That's new, some say it flourished out of Canaanite cultural practices, others (like myself) maintain that it arose in the Sinai desert.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    It was Proto-albanian tribe of Philistines who occupied hebrews and make them slaves.

    In the 1000 BC the David liberated hebrews, when killed Goliath (Illyrian or proto-albanian hero/philistine), and then they created judaic religion, in the base of judaic politheism, but they eliminated other gods except of JHVH.

    You're lost, pilgrim.
    Pelištim (Philistines) were part of Sea peoples.
    Scriptures maintain that they came from Kaphtor (Crete)... When Ramses chased them from the coast, he celebrated his triumph against the "Pršt"... IMO, they were Pelsagians, most probably Tyrsenian speakers who then adopted Canaanite language stream with Philistine substratum.
    They would've left their island under incoming Indo-European pressure.

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    DNA of the Arab and Kouhinm identical ( j1c3d) be called Abrahamic strain and this is Proves that the Arabs descended from Ishmail son of Ibraham
    You will note that this strain is spreading widely in the Arabian Peninsula
    ARAB PROJECT IN FAMILY TREE DNA

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    ***.familytreedna.com/public/j1el147/default.aspx?/publicwebsite.aspx=&section=yresults

  9. #34
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    Maciamo: What is more interesting is the case of the Elamites. Their civilization was centered in the west and the southwest of modern-day Iran, and their language related to Dravidian and languages of the Indus civilization. This South Asian origin could correspond to the relatively high frequency of haplogroup L (and minor presence of H) in southern Iran. Furthermore, the Akkadians are known to have deported many of them in various parts of their empire, as far as the Levant. This would explain the presence of hg L at low frequencies in the Middle East, and notably the Levant.

    Not to mention Haplogroup T; L's brother haplogroup, there seems to be a lot of Dravidians that have T as seen in wikipedia's higest Frequency section of Haplogroup T. Yet there seems to be a huge gap on haplogroup T's map from former Persia to south Eastern Indian; apparently Dravidians. Is there any chance that the Dravidians experienced an ancient exodus?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Not to mention Haplogroup T; L's brother haplogroup, there seems to be a lot of Dravidians that have T as seen in wikipedia's higest Frequency section of Haplogroup T. Yet there seems to be a huge gap on haplogroup T's map from former Persia to south Eastern Indian; apparently Dravidians. Is there any chance that the Dravidians experienced an ancient exodus?
    article on Dravidian, even the comments are very interesting.

    a note to me from 23andme on dravidian stated....if your neaderthal reading is above 2.7% then you have no dravidian. ( 23andme stop neaderthal readings at 3.3% )


    http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.bl...inguistic.html
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by willy View Post
    during that period I really think that there was not a very hight " haplogroup melting pot " 8000 years ago . No agenda to me just the truth ! but we will may be never know the " truth " anyway as I said during that time the Israel tribe had time to grow up with many other haplogroups convert as Shem tribes who followed the Hebrews in their migration and gradually integrated . The flood myth has its roots in the Black Sea catastrophe which caused a great dispersion of that peoples this disaster is in the Bible so the people who came to report that myth came logically from that region of the black sea - Caucasus not from the Arabian Peninsula . The black sea flood implied also the future Europeans dispersion from Anatolia to Western Europe during the neolithic . There is an other solution this Flood Myth came from Caucasus to Mesopotamia with the Sumerians tribes so later some Semitic tribes take it in their own believe and wrote the Bible ? In the same idea : Islam is just a copy of the Judeo Christian Monotheism, if you look at Islam this is really a mixture of the Old Testament not an original creation .

    http://www.genomeweb.com/arrays/inte...netic-patterns

    "The researchers reported that the Ashkenazi, Caucasus, Middle Eastern, North African, and Sephardi Jewish populations clustered with non-Jewish populations in the Middle East, particularly Druze and Cypriot groups, suggesting a " close relationship between most contemporary Jews and non-Jewish populations from Levant."

    Other groups with a significant G frequency include Catalan-speaking northern Sardinians and the Druze, who are about 18% G2a. About one-third of Haplogroup G in Iran is in sub-group G1.

    http://my.opera.com/ancientmacedonia...nd-macedonians

    Haplogroup G occurs most frequently in the Caucasus region where half of North Ossetian males are in G, as are about 30% of Georgians and Azerbaijanis.

    A large majority of European G2c’s are Ashkenazi Jews, but so far G2c has been tested in only a small number of people in the Middle East and South Asia. Among Ashkenazi Jews overall, about 10% are in haplogroup G
    Well we know the jewish priests were J because their sub-haplotype doesn't exist anywhere else, and priests are all supposed to be sons of priests.

    That doesn't mean all of the jews were the same haplotype, though. For example samson was supposed to be very dark skinned, some others are described as very pale, red hair or blue eyes, and others very arabic. So there was some mixing before the end of the captivity with the pharaoh through other slaves converting, if not before then.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    article on Dravidian, even the comments are very interesting.

    a note to me from 23andme on dravidian stated....if your neaderthal reading is above 2.7% then you have no dravidian. ( 23andme stop neaderthal readings at 3.3% )


    http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.bl...inguistic.html
    How on earth did this subject get switched to Neanderthal? But thanks for the link ^_^

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    How on earth did this subject get switched to Neanderthal? But thanks for the link ^_^
    I had to throw it in as per my question on what my dravidian was. LOL could not help myself

    regards

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    article on Dravidian, even the comments are very interesting.

    a note to me from 23andme on dravidian stated....if your neaderthal reading is above 2.7% then you have no dravidian. ( 23andme stop neaderthal readings at 3.3% )
    This link makes a nice point, :) Haplogroup T could've not only been farmers but sailors and traders who sailed to Somalia and East India from somewhere in the Persian Gulf probably explaining also the genetic issolation of Africa's horn from the rest of it's haplogroup.Source: History of Somalia/historyworld.net

    http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.bl...inguistic.html
    This link makes a nice point, :) Haplogroup T could've not only been farmers but sailors who sailed to Somalia and East India from the Fertile Crescent shores.
    Last edited by Twilight; 29-08-13 at 21:17.

  15. #40
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    False. According to ancient Somalian legends, The Isaaq and Darod tribes (these include all the highest concentration hg T groups.) arrived from the Yemenite tip of the Arabian peninsula, and further up the Arabian peninsula somewhere before, and from there they entered the Horn of Africa. Their leader was a Hashemite Arab.

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    His name was Shaykh Ishaq ibn Ahmad al-Hashimi from Arabia. And the founder of the Darod tribe was Abdirahman bin Isma'il al-Jabarti, from the Banu Hashim tribe of Arabia, he crossed the Red Sea from Yemen into Somalia.

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    Today Hashemites have spread in many places where Muslims have ruled, namely Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Djibouti, United Arab Emirates, Ethiopia, Northern Sudan, and Turkey. But the only modern Arabic/middle eastern nations to remain "Hashemite" as a title of origin are: The sharif of Mecca, The king of Jordan, King of Iraq, King of the Hejaz, King of Syria and the Imam of Yemen. Today, most of these Hashemite former states are dissolved. As for the Banu Hashim, who gave their name to all Hashemites, they where Muhammad and his grand-father Hashim's clan within the greater Quraish tribe. The Banu Hashim where Adnani Arabs. (Arabs that occupied the northern,central and western parts of the Arabian peninsula. The Quraish, where centred around Mecca (extreme west-central Arabia by the Red Sea.).

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Today Hashemites have spread in many places where Muslims have ruled, namely Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, Palestine, Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Djibouti, United Arab Emirates, Ethiopia, Northern Sudan, and Turkey. But the only modern Arabic/middle eastern nations to remain "Hashemite" as a title of origin are: The sharif of Mecca, The king of Jordan, King of Iraq, King of the Hejaz, King of Syria and the Imam of Yemen. Today, most of these Hashemite former states are dissolved. As for the Banu Hashim, who gave their name to all Hashemites, they where Muhammad and his grand-father Hashim's clan within the greater Quraish tribe. The Banu Hashim where Adnani Arabs. (Arabs that occupied the northern,central and western parts of the Arabian peninsula. The Quraish, where centred around Mecca (extreme west-central Arabia by the Red Sea.).
    Okay, maybe I exaggerated ^_^ Reading the explanation is new to me but has been acknowledged. But still doesn't explain Haplogroup T in the Ancient Egyptians according to Haplogroups of Ancient Civilizations/Eupedia

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    Another very interesting post, adamo! I had read in the quo'ran that mohammad was some kind of caucasian type but did not know of his tribe, or that he was likely in T haplogroup! History twists out strange tales.

    edit: also bible was compiled at a different time than the original three sources, which were much older. They didn't just sit down and make something up one day, they took all their history and beliefs and put it all together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noman View Post
    Another very interesting post, adamo! I had read in the quo'ran that mohammad was some kind of caucasian type but did not know of his tribe, or that he was likely in T haplogroup! History twists out strange tales.
    No kidding
    edit: also bible was compiled at a different time than the original three sources, which were much older. They didn't just sit down and make something up one day, they took all their history and beliefs and put it all together.
    Do you think Haplogroup T in Ancient Egypt was due to the Anceint Isrealites left behind in Egypt? Just an educated guess :) In not, is there other explanations? ;)

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Do you think Haplogroup T in Ancient Egypt was due to the Anceint Isrealites left behind in Egypt? Just an educated guess :) In not, is there other explanations? ;)
    No, I don't know really. I would not expect it to be T, but tracking down T is one of the bigger mysteries. If that is true for mohammad that would be a great discovery but it's only a guess (about the T part).

    So far as I can tell the Egyptians went through a lot of different phases of rulership over thousands of years and had a lot of mixing so it would be closer to the united states than to any homogenous ehtnic group.

    Who they were originally I don't know for sure but I'd guess e1b if I had to make a guess, like natufians and some of the very early farmers in places like austria.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    Do you think Haplogroup T in Ancient Egypt was due to the Anceint Isrealites left behind in Egypt? Just an educated guess :) In not, is there other explanations? ;)
    How old are the jewish , ie religion. Because T which is known by some genetic companies as the Tigris valley farmers ( babylonians ) where absorbed by the assyrians and from that came Armenians, Kurds, Medes, Azeri etc.

    T entered Europe with G very very early.........IMO they where hunters and sailors and eventually traders. But T1 has been said to have formed in the Pamir mountains and uzbekistan. I would like to see the difference between the ancient T-M184 and the T1-M70 lines

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    This guy is too intelligent....and knows too much about hg T.....to not be....Zanipolo!

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    How old are the jewish , ie religion. Because T which is known by some genetic companies as the Tigris valley farmers ( babylonians ) where absorbed by the assyrians and from that came Armenians, Kurds, Medes, Azeri etc.

    T entered Europe with G very very early.........IMO they where hunters and sailors and eventually traders. But T1 has been said to have formed in the Pamir mountains and uzbekistan. I would like to see the difference between the ancient T-M184 and the T1-M70 lines
    Isrealites apear to have existed since 2,000 BCish and got captured by the Babylonians and Assyrians only to be freed by the Persians. Sources: http://www.bu.edu/mzank/Jerusalem/cp/ANE.html http://www.mitchellteachers.org/Worl...sraelites.html http://www.science.co.il/Israel-history.php

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    This guy is too intelligent....and knows too much about hg T.....to not be....Zanipolo!
    I already stated this............zanipolo was beheaded once he reached the status of King. you cannot have 2 kings in any organisation

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