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Thread: Belgian Y-DNA from the Brabant Project

  1. #26
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    R1b1b2a* (inferred)

    Country: Germany



    Interesting. Thanks for sharing this. What is striking is that there's almost no Neolithic influence, at least "Neolithic" as far as we know (taking the samples from Treilles into account).

  2. #27
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T

    Country: USA - California



    Thank you for posting the Brabant stats. I'm shocked to see any T's living in the area.

  3. #28
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeRaet View Post
    Thank you for posting the Brabant stats. I'm shocked to see any T's living in the area.
    Why would you be shocked ?
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  4. #29
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    I was told no T's in Belgian by a fool. I was a fool to believe a fool. The guy wants to mess up my family tree.

  5. #30
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R-U152 BY3644/A9024
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1c3b 'Helga'

    Country: United Kingdom



    A U152* and 19, 22 from Belgium has just lost their *!

    He is now Z36+.
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    I hope more U152* from the area take the deep clade soon!



    Quote Originally Posted by brianco View Post
    Thanks Maciamo

    Do you know if the results are accessable, to the participants and to the public?

    I ask as our particular U152 branch has rare values: YCAII=19,22 and 447=27 said to be of 'Isles' origin!

    It would be interesting to see if any are 'close' to us!

  6. #31
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-L21

    Ethnic group
    Irish
    Country: Ireland



    1 members found this post helpful.
    It's a pity they don't test for L21 given the large percentage that are just P312* it wouldn't be surprising if a good chunk of these were L21+, awh well.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    It's a pity they don't test for L21 given the large percentage that are just P312* it wouldn't be surprising if a good chunk of these were L21+, awh well.
    Indeed you're right! I have been tested by them as being P312 and that's it. I really thought they would go deeper, but they only tested some of the subclades and not all. I saw on the forum that after the first part is done, they would then retest everyone for the new subclades discovered in the mean time. Let's hope it will come soon, really looking forward to a more precise subclade for my Y-DNA!

  8. #33
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ethnic group
    Irish
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lathuy View Post
    Indeed you're right! I have been tested by them as being P312 and that's it. I really thought they would go deeper, but they only tested some of the subclades and not all. I saw on the forum that after the first part is done, they would then retest everyone for the new subclades discovered in the mean time. Let's hope it will come soon, really looking forward to a more precise subclade for my Y-DNA!
    Well no doubt part of the issue is that L21 was only discovered in 2008! It's actually fairly amazing when you look at the "tree" from 2007 and compare it to the current draft tree. There are at least three new clades under P312 (L238, DF19, Z196 -- above iberian M153 + L176 )

  9. #34
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    I see there is a result for J2a3d. I am J2a3d from UK, and I know of one other J2a3d in Belgium who we appear to be related to about the time of the Norman conquest, my guess is that its the same person, but id be really interested if not. Is it possible to find out?

    thanks

  10. #35
    www.The-Kings-Son.com
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    FGC5494

    Country: United States



    Hi,

    I thought this group may be interested to know that the Haplogroup of the Belgian Royal Family has now been determined as a result of the combined research of the U106 Yahoo Group and myself (per my website). Further details can be found on the Haplogroup tab - if you are interested.

    Thank you,
    Brad (the-kings-son.com)

  11. #36
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    Anyone have an update on this project? Is it finished?

    Someone mentioned a CD ROM of the results being made available. Has that happened yet?

    Thanks

  12. #37
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b - L21/S145*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3c

    Ethnic group
    more celtic
    Country: France



    all the way I find very disappointing that they mix Walloon Brabenders with Netherlands speakers Brabenderds, and Antwerpeners - the ancient Provinces had no more value than the modern political cuttings - see Brittany that encompasses more than a micro-region, whatever the criteria: linguistic, genetic traits, history - the more small the scale, the better, I find

  13. #38
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Ethnic group
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    Country: Belgium - Brussels



    Quote Originally Posted by snowathlete View Post
    Anyone have an update on this project? Is it finished?

    Someone mentioned a CD ROM of the results being made available. Has that happened yet?

    Thanks
    The project for Flanders is finished. They couldn't find enough participants to complete their objectives for Wallonia. All the results of the first phase can be obtained from the book or DVD, which are available on the Brabant DNA Project's website. A new project for all the Netherlands is being planned at the moment.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The project for Flanders is finished. They couldn't find enough participants to complete their objectives for Wallonia. All the results of the first phase can be obtained from the book or DVD, which are available on the Brabant DNA Project's website. A new project for all the Netherlands is being planned at the moment.
    Thanks Maciamo,

    I dont suppose you, or anyone else here, has the book or DVD and would look up the M319 results for me. Im only interested in these three results, and also I dont speak Dutch.

    Thanks
    Joel

  15. #40
    Regular Member Anthro-inclined's Avatar
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    Was The Province Of North Brabant In The NetherlandS Included In This Study

  16. #41
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5a1b4

    Ethnic group
    English/British Isles
    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    There hasn't been a lot of progress lately, but here is the latest status based on 981 results.

    R1b : (n=600) 61.16%
    R1b-M343 : n=1 (0.1%)
    -R1b-P25: n=1 (0.1%)
    --R1b-P297: n=1 (0.1%)
    ---R1b-M269 : n=17 (1.7%)
    ----R1b-P310 : n=7 (0.7%)
    ----- R1b-U106 (S21) : n=255 (26%)
    ----- R1b-P312 (S116, incl. L21) : n=208 (21.2%)
    ------ R1b-U152 (S28) : n=101 (10.3%)
    ------ R1b-SRY2627 : n=6 (0.6%)

    R1a : n=38 (3.9%)
    R1a* : n=1
    -R1a1 : n=37

    I1 : n=119 (12.1%)
    I1* : n=112
    - I1c (P109) : n=7

    I2 : n=70 (7.1%)
    -I2* : n=14 (1.4%)
    -- I2a* : n=14 (1.4%)
    -- I2b* : n=43 (4.3%)
    --- I2b1 (M284) : n=2 (0.2%)
    --- I2b3 (P78) : n=2 (0.2%)
    --- I2b4 (P95) : n=3 (0.3%)

    J1 : n=11 (1.1%)

    J2 : n=40 (4.1%)
    - J2a* (M410) : n=21 (2.2%)
    ---J2a3b (M67) : n=4 (0.4%)
    ----J2a3b1 (M92) : n=5 (0.5%)
    ---J2a3d (M319) : n=3 (0.3%)
    - J2b* : n=0
    -- J2b2 : n=6 (0.6%)

    G2a : n=37 (3.8%)

    E1 : n=50 (5.1%)
    -E1b1b (M215) : n=0
    ---E1b1b1a (M78) : n=1
    -----E1b1b1a1a (V12) : n=1
    -----E1b1b1a1b (V13) : n=27 (2.8%)
    ------E1b1b1a1b5 (M35) : n=2
    -----E1b1b1a1c (V22) : n=4
    ----E1b1b1b1 (M81) : n=2
    ---E1b1b1c (M123) : n=2
    ----E1b1b1c1 (M34) : n=11 (1.2%)


    L : n=4 (0.4%)
    -L1 (M27) : n=3
    -L2 (M317) : n=1

    T : n=6 (0.6%)

    A : n=1 (0.1%)

    Q : n=4 (0.4%)
    Its quite similar to south-east England, which is also interesting given Kent's links with the Franks.
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  17. #42
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    proly R1B

    Ethnic group
    Romanian
    Country: Romania



    Maciamo,what HGs are you including in "Italo-Celtic"?
    I know that Italy is quite diverse as HGs,from region to region.
    Italy has a significant percentage of J2,but while I would say J2 is italic HG,I could not say is "Italo-Celtic".

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    Maciamo,what HGs are you including in "Italo-Celtic"?
    I know that Italy is quite diverse as HGs,from region to region.
    Italy has a significant percentage of J2,but while I would say J2 is italic HG,I could not say is "Italo-Celtic".
    LOL

    Italy has slightly more J2 than Romania.

    Anyway Italics and Celts share the same origin. It is impossible for archaeologists to tell apart Celtic Hallstatt and Italic Villanova sites apart untill 800 BC.

    Beside that late Halstatt and La Tene artifacts are found everywhere from the Alps to Apulia, which proves that Celts or Italo-Celts never stopped migrating into Italy.

  19. #44
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    R-M222 (NW Irish)
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    H1bi

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    Scots Appalachian ("Hillbilly")
    Country: USA - Virginia



    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The Brabant DNA Project was launched this year to analyse the Y-DNA composition of in the old Duchy of Brabant (modern Brussels + provinces of Walloon and Flemish Brabant, Antwerp and the Dutch province of North Brabant). It will soon expand to other provinces of Flanders, then Wallonia to cover all Belgium. It is the only Y-DNA project I know that is subsidised by the government....
    A : n=1 (0.1%)
    ...
    I'm curious about the one "A" result. Can someone who can read Dutch check if the project mentions whether or not they are testing only ancestrally-Dutch people or whether recent immigrants or children of immigrants are included? Could this "A" result be related to the recently-found A1-bearing men of Yorkshire? If so, that could indicate that the West Germanic-speaking peoples might have already had yDNA A members at the time of the split of continental Germanic people and Anglo-Saxons. In other words, yHG A1 may have been a "native" West Germanic or even Proto-Germanic HG.

  20. #45
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    proly R1B

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc View Post
    LOL

    Italy has slightly more J2 than Romania.

    Anyway Italics and Celts share the same origin. It is impossible for archaeologists to tell apart Celtic Hallstatt and Italic Villanova sites apart untill 800 BC.

    Beside that late Halstatt and La Tene artifacts are found everywhere from the Alps to Apulia, which proves that Celts or Italo-Celts never stopped migrating into Italy.
    I do not know,there is not an exact statistics about Romania hgs,by the areas.
    As for Aromanians,are Aromanians that even have 48% J summed:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroman...enetic_studies
    If Aromanians are colonists from Italy mixed with Dacians,than it would be clear that Romans had a lot of J2.
    As for Balkans,percentage is very different from country to country,J2.
    But you know are different branches of J2,I am pretty sure there is also an Italian J2.
    Maciamo says Romans spread mostly R1B-U152, well ,how come R1B-U152 is as such low percentages in Balkans than?
    Please notice that L HGs from Belgium,that is for sure Romans marker.
    L is also present in current day Turkey.
    And I think highest percentages of L are in Italy,from Europe.
    All of these things explains very well,if Romans were also carrying L,in some percentage.
    And I think Romans also spread J2 .

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihaitzateo View Post
    I do not know,there is not an exact statistics about Romania hgs,by the areas.
    As for Aromanians,are Aromanians that even have 48% J summed:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroman...enetic_studies
    If Aromanians are colonists from Italy mixed with Dacians,than it would be clear that Romans had a lot of J2.
    As for Balkans,percentage is very different from country to country,J2.
    But you know are different branches of J2,I am pretty sure there is also an Italian J2.
    Maciamo says Romans spread mostly R1B-U152, well ,how come R1B-U152 is as such low percentages in Balkans than?
    Please notice that L HGs from Belgium,that is for sure Romans marker.
    L is also present in current day Turkey.
    And I think highest percentages of L are in Italy,from Europe.
    All of these things explains very well,if Romans were also carrying L,in some percentage.
    And I think Romans also spread J2 .
    L is present at 1% in Italy according to Boattini et al. and is usually found only in extremely bottlenecked mountain regions.

  22. #47
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    Yes,L is 1% or a little more in some regions from Italy.
    But please remember that Roman Empire lost a lot of males that did not had the chance to make children,in wars.
    So I think hgs in Roman Empire soldiers shifted ,mostly towards Celtic/Gaulish people,cause they assimilated a lot of Celtic/Gaulish people
    and also from Balkanic people.
    So is quite clear that the E HG from Belgium is coming from Balkans via Roman Empire colonists/soldiers.
    EDIT:
    Since I was not clear,about L hg in Italy,it remained in mountainous regions,cause there,invaders of others ethnicities could not get.
    And according to what Maciamo is saying,it should be L2 which is European only:
    http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origin...europe.shtml#L
    Last edited by mihaitzateo; 26-07-15 at 16:09.

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