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Thread: Dating preference across racial groups

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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Arrow Dating preference across racial groups

    I found two related articles with surveys on dating preferences based on the racial background. The data is from OkCupid (online dating website). Answers from over 1 million people were taken into account, so it is a big survey (hence also fairly reliable).

    Birds of a feather flocking together



    Here we see that a much higher percentage of White people prefer to stick to their own racial* group. The gap with other races is huge. 54% of White females and 40% of White males strongly prefer to date someone who is also White. The average for non-Whites is only 20%. At the bottom, only 11% of Black males say that they only want to date Black women.

    The second article gives more precision about the perceived attractiveness from one specific racial group to another, both from the males and females' point of view.

    Patterns of response rates on OkCupid by sex & race



    Here we see that Black women are the least popular, with 31 to 41% of males replying to them. Middle-Eastern females are the most popular, with 47 to 63% of men responding to their inquiries, followed by White and Asian females. What is surprising is that men almost always prefer Middle-Eastern women to women from their own racial background, except ironically for Middle-Eastern men who prefer Pacific Islander females.

    When receiving a inquiry from a man, Black and Native American women were the most likely to reply, while Asian, Hispanic and White women were the least disposed to.



    *the definition I use for "racial group" is based on continental and subcontinental divisions, which is different from the "ethnic groups" that subdivide a race. For instance, White/European is a racial group, while Basque or Finn would be an ethnic group.
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    I am surprised at this report, but then again it was conducted in the US and I never lived in the U.S. hence it could not represent the rest of the world.

    I agree with everything else but that men almost always prefer Middle-Eastern women to women from their own racial background.

    I have been just about everywhere I have never seen an East Asian man with Middle Eastern woman. However my dad told me his ex- employee’s brother which is of Sino Malaysian decent married and Saudi Arabian princess and converted into Muslim. But that's the only one I heard.

    I don't recalled seeing much black men with Middle Eastern woman neither.
    Unless the men's desire does not reflect their actions because of cultural, religious...etc differences that they think it will not work, so they couldn't be bothered trying. They could have fantasies about somebody different but they can't bring that into reality successfully so they stay with the choices that are most likely to work.

    As for white men they go with everybody.

    So now we are equivalent to White women in terms of preference by men in the U.S??!!!
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    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    I also find it strange, Minty. I agree that cultural and especially religious differences certainly prevent dating between most Middle-Eastern and other people.

    Then I don't think that Middle-Eastern is a valid racial group. Turks have little to do with, say Egyptians, Yemeni, or Iranians. Even with a same country, western and eastern Turks are quite different genetically, and so are northern and southern Iraqi.

    Pacific Islanders, on the other hand, are not that different from other East Asians. It would be easier to confuse a Tahitian and a Philippino than a Western Turk and a Omani.

    The limit between Native American and Hispanic is not always clear either, because most Hispanics have mixed European and Native American (and sometimes African) blood.

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    Regular Member Wilhelm's Avatar
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    Hispanic/Latin is not a race.

    Hispanic/Latin is a linguistic term, not a racial term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Hispanic/Latin is not a race.

    Hispanic/Latin is a linguistic term, not a racial term.
    Hispanic is a cultural term fundamentally tied to language. It is used to codify Western Hemisphere Spanish speaking populations. A very large number of these people are of mixed racial heritage, although some South American countries such as, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Chile have significant numbers of whites. Specifically, there are large majorities in Argentina and Uruguay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    Hispanic is a cultural term fundamentally tied to language. It is used to codify Western Hemisphere Spanish speaking populations. A very large number of these people are of mixed racial heritage, although some South American countries such as, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Chile have significant numbers of whites. Specifically, there are large majorities in Argentina and Uruguay.
    whites in Chile are only about 30%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    whites in Chile are only about 30%
    In latin America, a white population of 30% is significant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    I also find it strange, Minty. I agree that cultural and especially religious differences certainly prevent dating between most Middle-Eastern and other people.

    Then I don't think that Middle-Eastern is a valid racial group. Turks have little to do with, say Egyptians, Yemeni, or Iranians. Even with a same country, western and eastern Turks are quite different genetically, and so are northern and southern Iraqi.

    Pacific Islanders, on the other hand, are not that different from other East Asians. It would be easier to confuse a Tahitian and a Philippino than a Western Turk and a Omani.

    The limit between Native American and Hispanic is not always clear either, because most Hispanics have mixed European and Native American (and sometimes African) blood.
    Yes, I agree, "Middle Eastern" is not a valid racial group. One might consider "Semitic" as a racial group that includes Middle Eastern peoples... Don't know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    Yes, I agree, "Middle Eastern" is not a valid racial group. One might consider "Semitic" as a racial group that includes Middle Eastern peoples... Don't know.
    The middle-east is a political invention. There is no such thing as the middle-east nor middle-easterns
    Even though, most countries belonging to middle-east are Semitic,
    So ,yes, most middle-easterns are Semitic, and they are characterized by having lots of J1 and J2 y-dna.
    Iranians speak a Indo-European language, but ethnically they are like their neighboring countries

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    Are you stupid?

    Middle Eastern women are NOT the most preferred. Asian women and White women are. Stop making up statistics that don't exist, your links are faulty.

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    You mean you know a Sino-Malaysian woman married to a Saudi Arabian man. East Asian men don't like Middle Eastern women, but Middle Eastern men love Asian women.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlNg View Post
    Middle Eastern women are NOT the most preferred. Asian women and White women are. Stop making up statistics that don't exist, your links are faulty.
    This is like a four year old thread you resurrected and that is why links are "faulty". And the only one making up statistics here is you. You've provided no evidence whatever for your claims.

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    Passione Mediterranea julia90's Avatar
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    In italy i should say:

    for men: east asian and amerindian females, mulattas
    for women: black, north african men, and some amerindian

    byt i should say italian men are more inclined to marry outside their race than italian women

    on the men category there si the one signifacntly older italian man very young girl from other race (remarcably found here)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    Then I don't think that Middle-Eastern is a valid racial group.
    Agreed


    Turks have little to do with, say Egyptians,
    agreed

    Yemeni
    agreed

    or Iranians.
    disagreed. Even the most Western Turk is still genetically much closer to an Iranian as to any European population. In fact Dienekes often labels the "West Asian" component as Irano-Anatolian.

    Without a doubt here in Germany none can distinguish between an Iranian or Turkish female just that Iranian woman are generally considered as more classy or attractive.

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    Most Norwegians prefer their own. Among those who marry outside their countrymen, most prefer other Europeans. A minority among women marry North-Africans, Iranians etc., a minority among men marry East-Asians like Thai or Philippinians, probably because they are seen as more obedient and less feministic inclined than Norwegian women.

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    My Polish friend was upset with his friend who married a Phillipina. I rationalized for him that many white Canadian women behave like men. Who wants to marry another man. Most young Polish women have been Canadianized so are feminized i.e. behave like men. His friend is over 40 as he worked all his life in fish ship factories. He has been all over the world and maybe was looking for an old-fashioned girl but could find any among the Polish girls, I figure.

    I think people are attracted by the opposite i.e. features that complement them. I seen very tall guys going out with short girls who barely reach their shoulders. I have seen many attractive people marry not so attractive mates and so on. I think there is a biological reason for the attraction. Scientists also say it is the immune system.

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    Quite a nice fight is running over here, I don't wanna make it big

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiffany01 View Post
    Quite a nice fight is running over here, I don't wanna make it big


    This thread has been dead for a bit over a year, I don't think the "fight" is "running over". Also, what do you mean by "I don't wanna make it big"?

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    But, in regards to what Maciamo said years ago: the results are perplexing. There are many Middle-Eastern women that are attractive and desirable. But, the religious and cultural differences are plentiful. I personally like European, Indian, and Asian women.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboygcp View Post
    But, in regards to what Maciamo said years ago: the results are perplexing. There are many Middle-Eastern women that are attractive and desirable. But, the religious and cultural differences are plentiful. I personally like European, Indian, and Asian women.
    Indians are Asians, do you mean Indians and East Asians, because the South Asians (Indians, Sinhalese, Bengali, Pakistanis ) their physical appearances and their culture are significantly different than the East Asians. Although East Asia is very diverse ad broad and the appearances can vary a lot too.

    I once had a Sinhalese person asking me why I am so fair and that I was originally from Malaysia. Well, that is because my origins are of Chinese descent which is a north East Asian origins ethnic group where as the Malays and the aboriginals of Borneo Island ( now East Malaysia) are kinds of Polynesians, we got Indians too they are the dark Indians, light Indians look like Persians, according to national geographic studies light Indians have 6 % Northern European genetics where as South Indians only have 2% Northern European Genetics.

    Then she keeps on saying that I look like Korean and when she sees a real Korean, she thinks they look like Chinese...HaHa

    https://genographic.nationalgeograph...e-populations/

    According to the studies, we north East Asians have South East Asians genetics in our blood but less, I won't be too surprised if South East Asians have North East Asians genetics.

    Having said that I recently went back to Malaysia for a visit, i noticed a lot of changes, people are mixing up more and more, and the aboriginals and Malay people are getting lighter and lighter. The Indians mixed people still look dark for some reason. It must be a genetic thing, African people tend to stay dark even after mixing with light people, where as Australian aboriginals loose their color a lot more.
    Last edited by Minty; 28-07-16 at 15:01.

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    It's not just about marriage...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    It's not just about marriage...

    They prefer light dolls since they were children, by the time they have grown up, they will then prefer light partners. We are still living in a society where dark things are devalued and white things are valued.

    In Asia, men prefer light ladies too. There are even cream to make you lighter. I don't recommend those, for health consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
    They prefer light dolls since they were children, by the time they have grown up, they will then prefer light partners. We are still living in a society where dark things are devalued and white things are valued.

    In Asia, men prefer light ladies too. There are even cream to make you lighter. I don't recommend those, for health consequences.
    The real question is whether this is cultural or genetic. Most researchers who tackled the issue concluded that it is genetic.

    That's the twist in the plot which will take many people aback... The experiment has been repeated by many people in different time periods and with different groups. The results are always close... It doesn't seem to be a cultural prejudice.

    While part of it is undeniably related to the effects of institutionalized racism:

    http://www.theroot.com/articles/cult...st_11_facts/2/

    According to Kenneth Clark’s analysis, the doll studies were relevant in that they showed how racial segregation interfered with students’ personality development. But Harvard law professor Lani Guinier has noted (pdf) that the Clarks’ conclusions failed to consider that black students with high degrees of contact with whites could very possibly have experienced even greater distress over their racial stigma than their counterparts in segregated communities. Plus, plenty of commentators have pointed out that the experiment included a small sample size and no control group.
    https://edpolicy.stanford.edu/sites/...ce-dilemma.pdf

    Page 19 of 27 (110)

    Basing its opinion on the psychological research of the time, the Court misunderstoodthe source of self-esteem for many blacks and unwittingly contributed to thedivergence of interests along class and geographic lines within and without the blackcommunity. These outcomes can be traced, in part, to the flawed studies on whichplaintiffs relied to prove that physically equal but segregated facilities had a negativepsychological impact on all black children. The most famous of the psychologicalstudies cited by the Court was the doll experiment of Kenneth Clark and MamieClark. The Clark study aggregated findings of northern and southern black children,light-skinned and dark-skinned black children, and middle-class and poor black childrento conclude that segregation caused feelings of inferiority among all blacks.Black children in the more integrated North had more frequently preferred the whitedolls than black children in the South. Many northern black children also verbalizedunease when prompted to consider their physical similarity to the brown dolls, yetKenneth Clark concluded that northern black children were actually psychologicallyhealthier. A historian has summarized Clark’s argument: The reaction of the northernchildren showed their “discomfort with the complicated and harsh reality of racialmores rather than resignation,” whereas racial segregation and isolation had causedsouthern black children to accept their inferior social status as normal. “Such anacceptance,” Clark reported, “is not symptomatic of a healthy personality.” Clarkargued that the racial identification of the southern children, almost 80 percent ofwhom identified themselves in some way with the brown dolls, was tainted becauseof the terms they used to verbalize their choices. The southern black childrendescribed the black dolls as “pretty,” “nice,” or “good” but accompanied their choiceswith statements such as, “This one. It’s a nigger. I’m a nigger.”42

    Page 20 of 27 (111)

    Clark’s message was that group self-hatred among blacks begins at an early age,involves the rejection of brown skin color by black children, and becomes embeddedin the personality of blacks as a result of the “damage inherent in racial segregation.”These conclusions may have had some merit, but none was entirely consistent withhis research. According to Daryl Scott, Clark’s conclusions (unlike his data) also contradictedother contemporary studies that suggested that black children with greatercontact with whites experienced the most psychological distress. While many blackshailed the Court decision, especially for its vast symbolic value, the opinion’s emphasison the psychological damage segregation does to blacks camouflaged the waysdesegregation “hurt” some blacks, while segregation motivated others to excel, a possibilityHolt had conceded. For some black children, segregated schools provided asanctuary from psychological conflict. More recently, psychological literature has alsosuggested that those blacks who are the most invested in achieving academicallywithin the larger society are often more vulnerable to what Claude Steele and othersterm stereotype threat, the situational threat of being negatively stereotyped. UnlikeClark’s “self-fulfilling prophecy” that black students internalize and then fulfill negativestereotypes and low expectations for achievement, stereotype threat is contextdependentrather than intrinsic. Moreover, social psychologists have found that insome circumstances the ability to maintain a sense of self-worth in a hostile environmentmay actually enhance self-esteem. The key point is that data on self-esteem differencesbetween black kids and white kids were not well developed then; even today“there’s not much evidence of chronic psychological damage done to blacks’ selfesteemas a result of segregation” per se.43
    The Indonesian side of the experiment cannot be explained as the result of Indonesian boys and girls living in a racist society where whites are more valued than blacks:



    As I said, the variation of the result globally is not that great...
    Last edited by Petros Houhoulis; 28-07-16 at 20:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petros Houhoulis View Post
    The real question is whether this is cultural or genetic. Most researchers who tackled the issue concluded that it is genetic.

    That's the twist in the plot which will take many people aback... The experiment has been repeated by many people in different time periods and with different groups. The results are always close... It doesn't seem to be a cultural prejudice.
    Nonsense. In isolated African tribes they used to kill albino babies. When I was a girl, an old Calabrian woman told me never to trust people with blue eyes. Since half my family is light eyed, I knew enough to ignore that one. There's an old Italian proverb which someone recently reminded me of...l'altezza mezza belleza. Again, as my grandmother was 5'10, I found that offensive. People are programmed to believe that people who look like them, or among whom they've been raised are more attractive. There's nothing genetic about it.

    People who live in ethnic bubbles really aren't capable of judging these things. Having lived for a good part of my life in a multi-ethnic society I've seen a lot of men and women who prefer or are more attracted to darker people, for whatever reason. I know a lot of men who really like Latina women, for example. It's not universal, but there are definitely men like that.

    Personally, I can't say I've ever been particularly attracted to men of other races, but I can say I'm almost never attracted to blonde men. It doesn't make Mediterranean looking men better in any objective sense, but that's my preference. I would expect that perhaps women raised among men who fit another template would have other preferences. C'est la vie. To each his own. How boring if we were all alike in the way we look or in our preferences.


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    @Petros Houhoulis,

    If you're going to add paragraphs to your original post, either set the additions off by an Ed. or Reply With Quote to your own post.

    What I neglected to say in my own post...

    Or, rather than liking only the "look" of one's own group, it might be a case of opposites attract. My father was very fair, with dirty blonde hair, green eyes and very fair skin, and not very Med looking at all. I loved and love him dearly, but somehow I wasn't attracted to men who looked like him, even if they were very handsome. Certainly, it seems as if northern European women are attracted to Mediterranean men who don't look like their fathers presumably. I mean, in the summer the train doors open and floods of them pour out, and they're not only interested in the artwork and the architecture, if you get my drift.

    Then there's the effect of class. If slaves are all black, and masters are all or mostly fair Europeans, then guess which phenotype will be valued in that society? If farm workers, peasants, are outdoors all the time and get dark, then fair skin will equate to higher class and will be more valued.

    Human behavior is very complicated; an interplay of genetics and environment. I was too hasty in my post above. I do think genetics has some part to play, but not in the way that you meant. From the papers I've read, genetics might indeed have a role to play, but the role is in influencing people to be attracted to people reasonably, but not too closely related to them. So, it would seem it would influence one to find one's own "race" more attractive, not the phenotype of a race from 10,000 miles away. Of course, if that alien race invades and subjugates you, or you're bombarded by their media, your preferences are going to change, and perhaps not to the betterment of your mental health. Surely it should be clear to everybody that it's not mentally healthy to find one's own phenotype unattractive and to think that the phenotype of foreigners is more attractive.

    Human history is the history of admixture, whether some people like it or not. If they can't or won't accept that they don't belong on a science and genetics site. The "European" phenotype probably didn't exist until 4,000 years ago. Some European nation states are only a couple of hundred years old. It's time to retire these atavistic attitudes.

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