Smart ancient people

I think he means that in today's western countries educated and well off people tend to have one or two kids, though they could financially support more. On other hand there are disadvantaged and often not so smart people on social welfare system. They can't support themselves financially but still make many kids, because they can, who are also supported by government money, thus other's people money who pay taxes. Without this support of generous societies their kids would die of hunger. The way it used to be in the past. This cruel process might have been the evolutionary way to select people with better intelligence. Smart enough to start civilizations.

Yup. Another depressing thing happening is the fact that atheist families tend to have much lower fertility rates than religious ones. Which seems to be the main reason why religion keeps on surviving. And of course there is a positive correlation between IQ and secularism.
 
Our ancestors had bigger muscles, so does that mean we are stronger now? I had never considered that, but it makes a lot of sense now.

It depends on the physical work necessary to keep oneself fed and protected from the environment. Generally speaking today we need much less muscle to achieve much more (excluding the gym crazed that grow muscles for other reasons :)). We also have to remember that elephants and whales have bigger brains then humans but did not achieve a fraction of what humans did (so far)
 
We also have to remember that elephants and whales have bigger brains then humans but did not achieve a fraction of what humans did (so far)
That I didn't know, I thought only dolphins have bigger brains than humans. Aparently, whale's brain weighs 8 kg, elephant's 5 kg.
 
The last time I checked intellect is intelligence.
Well, that's the problem there...we don't really know how to clearly define intelligence in a concrete sense, do we? Dogs and cats and animals in general, have their own level of intelligence; but they cannot learn things like humans can. Like intellectual facts. Because their mental biology is different than humans. In example; a mentally retarded person could still learn things that a dog or cat wouldn't be able to; but the dog and cat would still show a high degree of intelligence for their species.

I do not believe IQ tests measure these differences; they only measure the required information that people must know. To me, IQ tests seem like silly pseudoscience (most of them) and are often mythological and contradictory. What is funny is that people say the Jewish tend to score above average on IQ tests; but right here in this image their IQ tests are slightly below, at 90 and 97:



table1-smaller.jpg

Ashkenazi Jews are smarter:

http://immortallife.info/articles/entry/why-is-the-iq-of-ashkenazi-jews-so-high

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/index1.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence
 
Yup. Another depressing thing happening is the fact that atheist families tend to have much lower fertility rates than religious ones. Which seems to be the main reason why religion keeps on surviving. And of course there is a positive correlation between IQ and secularism.
I just wanted to point out that it seems you are already having formed an opinion/agenda on this subject.

I am not religious but I am also not a secularist myself. If you want a broader perspective, you must look at things from a neutral point of view; from all sides and angles.

Simply lacking a belief in God does not make an individual more intelligent. It is a learned thing; just like the literal belief in God is a learned thing. Even your own name that your parents give you, is a learned thing.

If a person is high-functioning they have the ability to change their beliefs. Whether or not they are Atheist or Religious, and if they are willing to act out on it- this is called fluid intelligence. There have been many great philosophers who were religious; like Soren Kierkegaard who was a Christian existentialist. I tend to score extremely high on fluids. From what I can detect in this post; many people here are not using their fluid intelligence.

Definition of Fluid intelligence:

"Fluid intelligence is the capacity to think logically and solve problems in novel situations, independent of acquired knowledge. Fluid intelligence involves the ability to identify patterns and relationships that underpin novel problems and to extrapolate these findings using logic."


The reason that people who are religious score lower in IQ tests is not because they are lower functioning (mentally) than the Atheists; it is because they are trained to think by their Religion in a way that is not as intellectual like these supposed Secularists. In a way, this explains why they tend to score lower on the IQ tests. Because the IQ test is designed to reward intellect and knowledge; which Secularists tend to have a greater advantage in.
 
The last time I checked intellect is intelligence.
Last time I checked intellect is a man-made word. And the IQ test is a man-made institution. So, by your logic; whoever created the IQ test must be the most intelligent person who ever existed and a genius, right? Since people take faith in such an outdated contraption.

So, how can someone of average intelligence create the IQ test? Or were they a genius? Were they God? How can they determine "intelligence"?
 
Well, that's the problem there...we don't really know how to clearly define intelligence in a concrete sense, do we? Dogs and cats and animals in general, have their own level of intelligence; but they cannot learn things like humans can. Like intellectual facts. Because their mental biology is different than humans. In example; a mentally retarded person could still learn things that a dog or cat wouldn't be able to; but the dog and cat would still show a high degree of intelligence for their species.
Don't confuse memory with intelligence. Memory is used by intelligence to recall facts, but intelligence is analysing facts from memory, making connections, recognising patterns, calculating the best action to take, making decisions, avoiding danger, taking chances, calculating probabilities, understanding physical and mathematical equations, things like these. We know exactly what intelligence is, the difficult part is to quantatise it for statistical comparable purposes.
 
Don't confuse memory with intelligence. Memory is used by intelligence to recall facts, but intelligence is analysing facts from memory, making connections, recognising patterns, calculating the best action to take, making decisions, avoiding danger, taking chances, calculating probabilities, understanding physical and mathematical equations, things like these. We know exactly what intelligence is, the difficult part is to quantatise it for statistical comparable purposes.
Memory comes before intelligence. Have their ever been people with amnesia who have always scored at the genius level on the same tests?
 
Memory comes before intelligence. Have their ever been people with amnesia who have always scored at the genius level on the same tests?

I read an article recently about a Spanish F1 racer who crashed in Barcelona and woke up in 1995; having the mind of a teenager. Forgot the past 20 years apparently. I don't know his name. But I think he was Asturian?
 
Don't confuse memory with intelligence. Memory is used by intelligence to recall facts, but intelligence is analysing facts from memory, making connections, recognising patterns, calculating the best action to take, making decisions, avoiding danger, taking chances, calculating probabilities, understanding physical and mathematical equations, things like these. We know exactly what intelligence is, the difficult part is to quantatise it for statistical comparable purposes.
I read an article recently about a Spanish F1 racer who crashed in Barcelona and woke up in 1995; having the mind of a teenager. Forgot the past 20 years apparently. I don't know his name. But I think he was Asturian?
 
Last time I checked intellect is a man-made word.
I'm not sure where are you going with this, because all the words are men made. You just need to remember to use them with correct (generally accepted) meaning, otherwise we won't understand each other.

And the IQ test is a man-made institution.
I see, that this is exactly what I mentioned above. You don't use the standard meanings, standard definitions. The test is not an institution. A group of people who control and standardize IQ test is an institution. Secondly, from when all man made things must be wrong? Just because it is manmade it doesn't mean it is useless and wrong. Car, table, computer, a movie, capitalism, are all man made, and they work fine.


So, by your logic; whoever created the IQ test must be the most intelligent person who ever existed and a genius, right? Since people take faith in such an outdated contraption.
Today's IQ tests and many derivatives of it are created by many smart people in many countries. The person who invented it was obviously very smart too. However, it beats me why do you think it would needed to be the smartest of us all.

So, how can someone of average intelligence create the IQ test? Or were they a genius? Were they God? How can they determine "intelligence"?
I'm sure that you don't use same definition of intelligence as the rest of us. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence
Intelligence has been defined in many different ways such as in terms of one's capacity for logic, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, learning, emotional knowledge, memory, planning, creativity and problem solving. It can also be more generally described as the ability to perceive and/or retain knowledge or information and apply it to itself or other instances of knowledge or information creating referable understanding models of any size, density, or complexity, due to any conscious orsubconscious imposed will or instruction to do so.
 
Memory comes before intelligence. Have their ever been people with amnesia who have always scored at the genius level on the same tests?
Yes, memory is essential for intelligence to work on, but it is not intelligence per se. Good memory obviously helps a lot and give intelligence lots of material to work on, it gives it a boost. Conversely, when memory is lost, intelligence doesn't have information to work on and stops working too.
Look at the computer inner working. There is a processor and there is a memory, two very distinct parts and having different functions. Yet, you need these two working together to unleash the processing/thinking power of computer.
 
Yes, memory is essential for intelligence to work on, but it is not intelligence per se. Good memory obviously helps a lot and give intelligence lots of material to work on, it gives it a boost. Conversely, when memory is lost, intelligence doesn't have information to work on and stops working too.
Look at the computer inner working. There is a processor and there is a memory, two very distinct parts and having different functions. Yet, you need these two working together to unleash the processing/thinking power of computer.
That doesn't really refute what I believe. In fact you are only confirming to me that I am correct; as far as I know.
 
It depends on the physical work necessary to keep oneself fed and protected from the environment. Generally speaking today we need much less muscle to achieve much more (excluding the gym crazed that grow muscles for other reasons :)). We also have to remember that elephants and whales have bigger brains then humans but did not achieve a fraction of what humans did (so far)
So smaller brains means we've gotten more intelligent, yet smaller muscles means we've gotten weaker? I'm just trying to find some internal consistency in what people are writing here.

Large bodies require larger brains to control, but I'm not aware of a solid formula to calculate a person's excess brain capacity. Elephant are likely the most intelligent species after humans though.
 
Intelligence has been defined in many different ways such as in terms of one's capacity for logic, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, learning, emotional knowledge, memory, planning, creativity and problem solving. It can also be more generally described as the ability to perceive and/or retain knowledge or information and apply it to itself or other instances of knowledge or information creating referable understanding models of any size, density, or complexity, due to any conscious or subconscious imposed will or instruction to do so.
LOL well you already admitted that you don't understand a clue of what I am talking about. So clearly you lack some form of intelligence yourself; judging by that definition. LeBrok, this is disappointing to me.

You think IQ tests measure biological intelligence; not acquired intelligence. When in reality, it mainly measures the latter and not much the former. From what I am detecting already, you lack what is called fluid intelligence. I have high fluid intelligence because I read a lot of Philosophy; especially Existentialism.
 
Cite me saying that.
Come on; don't lie to yourself. You mentioned it several times.

Even if you are wrong, what does it matter? IQ tests don't really tell you much about intelligence. While it may be true that intelligence is genetic/biological; the true strength in mastering IQ tests is intellectual knowledge.

For example; just because Bosnians have an average IQ score of 89 doesn't make them any more stupid. And sometimes they often come out with contradictory scores; in between two distinct tests. This is why I think most IQ tests are nonsense. Their below average IQ is likely more correlated with a lack of education and development in their country/community.

People don't believe in God; for the simple reason that they are told there is an invisible man in the sky. They believe in God because it brings them a sense of security.
 
For example; just because Bosnians have an average IQ score of 89 doesn't make them any more stupid. And sometimes they often come out with contradictory scores; in between two distinct tests. This is why I think most IQ tests are nonsense. Their below average IQ is likely more correlated with a lack of education and development in their country/community.

lol at this bait
 

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