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Thread: Fustanella

  1. #176
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    I agree that this is just too much for you.

    Molossians were an Illyrian tribe... Illyrians were in south-east or Asia minor too... read more about them... Dardanians were the heart of the Thraco-Illyrian culture... Troy was Illyrian (Dardanian... or Pelasgian in wider sence of the word)...
    So, when someone found any connection of albanians whith dacians, they immediately reach the conclusion and they restrict the origin only whith that tribe, or whith that part of ancient culture... then, someone else will find connection of albanians with Molossians, thant they will claim that albanians came from molossian people and that's all... someone else will find connection of albanians whith Dardanians... and thy will restrict again only in that part... someone else will find connection of albanians with etruscians, and they will say it in their limited way... someone else will find connection of albanians with macedonians, thracians, and with all tens of Illyrian tribes one by one... and they will claim again separated about every one of them, like the only presenters of Albanian origin... and after the summary of all these information, by all scientific components that it is necessary... than you will understand the conclusions of thousands of scientists, about Albanian autochthony and their direct origin from the Pelasgians, who are all connected whith these latter cultures.


    P.S: (You see that I have the patience to talk whith someone like you, who spit upon the scientific data such as the beautiful inscription above, that for you they are only rubbish...)
    Try to understand the circumstances of that region, or of these people, why they whith centuries have to be retreated in the mountains, than speak about the sea :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami View Post
    I agree that this is just too much for you.

    Molossians were an Illyrian tribe... Illyrians were in south-east or Asia minor too... read more about them... Dardanians were the heart of the Thraco-Illyrian culture... Troy was Illyrian (Dardanian... or Pelasgian in wider sence of the word)...
    So, when someone found any connection of albanians whith dacians, they immediately reach the conclusion and they restrict the origin only whith that tribe, or whith that part of ancient culture... then, someone else will find connection of albanians with Molossians, thant they will claim that albanians came from molossian people and that's all... someone else will find connection of albanians whith Dardanians... and thy will restrict again only in that part... someone else will find connection of albanians with etruscians, and they will say it in their limited way... someone else will find connection of albanians with macedonians, thracians, and with all tens of Illyrian tribes one by one... and they will claim again separated about every one of them, like the only presenters of Albanian origin... and after the summary of all these information, by all scientific components that it is necessary... than you will understand the conclusions of thousands of scientists, about Albanian autochthony and their direct origin from the Pelasgians, who are all connected whith these latter cultures.


    P.S: (You see that I have the patience to talk whith someone like you, who spit upon the scientific data such as the beautiful inscription above, that for you they are only rubbish...)
    Try to understand the circumstances of that region, or of these people, why they whith centuries have to be retreated in the mountains, than speak about the sea :)
    LOL ....ROFL

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molossians

    People find strange things in the mist of their nationalistic minds

    LINK where molossians are illyrians
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  3. #178
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    Wikipedia again :S
    You just translated that piece of book, who tell us that Molossians are dissolved in today's Albanians, and their name in albanian is Mountain, or Malesia... Mountain people... they are connected whith ancient Macedonians (who where Thraco-Illyrian extract)... also, latter Molossians were colonized (for someone Hellenized) by hellens, that's why wikipedia call them greeks, but you should read ancient writters for these questions, and dont take ancient world as a greek monopoly. Open your mind...

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-a...w=1024&bih=602
    If you divide the Illyrian from Epirotes, than Molossians were epirotes tribe... so Epirotes (just like Illyrians and Macedonians) are Pelasgian branches, different from the Greeks. You have to understant who were Illyrians in a wider sense of the word... you have a lot of info in last pages from international scientist and don't make me to repeat them... just read and dont be lazy, to say that "these are to much for me" :P
    By the way, the word "Epirot" is translated as today "Albanian" by all free scientist (for example: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...3_150528_n.jpg )
    + Molossi -They were the most powerful of the Epirote tribes. The Molossians were a dynastic tribe very much in control of Epirus and, at times, controlled southern Illyria as far north as the city of Epidamnus in central Illyria.
    http://www.ancientillyrians.com/tribes.html

    + Illyrian tribes: http://kuksiskupialba.tripod.com/kuk...ISETantike.JPG
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________



    The topic is about albanian folk similarities (specifically Fustanella) whith other old cultures of Europe or Mediterranean, that have been able to maintain the authenticity of the old culture of mankind what was in common (like one... or "pelasgian culture")
    That's why I have sketched here information of other components of the albanian culture, what still are preserved as in ancient times... like the language (page 4 & 7), also symbols (page 5), costumes (page 5 & 6), dances (page 6)... and no one here did not quote these information, to reply me against, or pro... so, now let's see about this other ancient symbol... and again, is beautifully preserved, only by the Albanians (as Self-isolated people) for centuries.


    Albanian white qeleshe or plis
    (just like todays arvanites are named as greeks, in the same way, the old pelasgian culture in ancient times, they call it greek).





    1=Odysseus (in albanian Odhisti/Udhisti... traveler)
    2=Uliks
    3=Odysseus
    4=Hefest
    5=Theti (deity of the sea and water, today in albanian Deti=the sea), runs to pull weapons of Achilles, to "divine" Hefest. All the three have the todays albanian plis/qeleshe in their head (Rome show about Iliad at Colosse-2007, the Archaeological Museum of Naples)
    6=Hefest
    7=Illyrian type of a plaque found in today's Croatia near Dubrovnik
    8=Poseidon
    9=Through the Etruscans (Pelasgians), the subsequent Roman people named "pileus libertatis" (plis of freedom), here presented in the currency printed by the Roman Brutus after Caesar's murder.
    10=Antique statues in Labëri (also similar to this
    :http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3040852_n.jpg)
    11=Ajax & Achilles playing Draughts

    * Starting from the Plis/qeleshe of ZEUS (Zojsi/Dias) up to Bardulus [(white - star Dardanian/Bardhanian Bardh(white) yll(star)], all these are symbols of freedom to Albanians, you can see this link for more: http://picasaweb.google.com/11509262...96537464102946
    Here we have Zeus:
    "A19 SG#0671 Bruttium, Lokroi Epizephyrioi, possibly from the time of Pyrrhus. AE 20. 300-268 BC. First part of 3rd Cent BC. Conjoined busts of the Dioskouroi right wearing PILEI - Zeus enthroned holding patera nd Sceptre, cornucopiae behind, LOKRWN. SNG Cop 1895. HN Italy 2399. Sear 671. 4.9g."
    http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5347599_n.jpg

    Here we have Pyrro whith his people with plis/qeleshe and crown from the sacred oak of Dodona




    To keep cultural traditions and in proving that to whose people (culture) he belong, he is identified with the eagle and all the other symbolism (like the two horns that appear in this picture) that derive from Thot (Idris)>Deukalion (Dhulkarnejn)> Troyans> Alexander the great> and through him, to Castrioti, who besides that inherited the same culture, but he kept the figure of Pyrrhus in his sword too:
    http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3...enderbeyg0.jpg


    Quote Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami View Post
    Let's proceed:
    Ancient artifact from Vinca culture (or Goddess on the throne) and modern (still ancient:) albanian dress from Kosovo (part of ancient Dardania)







    If we pay attention to the tradition, even today in albanian culture, when the girl become e women, when she get married (albanians get married only in Thursday and Sunday), she have to stay just like this, in that position (folded), like the mysterious artifact there.
    Thursday is womens day. For the bride they say: "U bë Nuse Venuse" - "You become e Bride a Venus"... alb.:"Ve"- eng.:"Egg" - alb.:"Nuse" - eng.:"bride"... Venus)
    Also, when in "the first night" she have to stay whith her man, tradition requires that she have to sit in the symbol of the half of Cosmic Egg (albanian white hood - "Plis" or "Qeleshe", is only a man cap), turned back, and to put in the head the another half, just like the symbol of Zeus here:




    So, like the seed that came from the Cosmic Egg or the Egg of the Worlds and brought the life, and the Bride "emerges" from the Egg and bring life in that house.

    In fact the entire albanian national dress represents that pelasgic religion, or symbolizes God/Almighty Creator.
    Even the sleeves of the dress (Guna) that don't have to be wear but to connect behind, symbolizing comb / wings of divinity. For old religion (or better to say, from that original religion, what was copied latter from other cultures, especially from the Semitic peoples) says that when the Creator created life from the cosmic egg/egg of worlds, he was presented with comb/wings ...
    This kind of theory of creation is writen somehow and in the Bible indireclty in Genesis.
    Here you can see the symbolism of Comb/divine wings in albanian dress:




    See more in page 5 in this topic about some other albanian national costumes and their symbolism:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page5
    So, here we have this wonderful figure from the book of Artur Cook about Zues, who have two qeleshe/plis in above and below... Plis/qeleshe symbolizes the on half of the cosmic egg, from which "egg" God created all things, created life.

    Otherwise, the Illyrians have used several types of hats/plis/qeleshe (fez-hat-cap-lumpy) similar to each other.
    Dardanians have used round (or half circle) qeleshe, in use today by albanians in Kosovo. Dardania latter was from Nis (Naisus) to the Bylazora (Veles), Astipi (Shtibi), Skopje (Skupi), Tetovo (Oaeneum), Gostivar (Draudakum) ...
    From mountain in southern Bukovik up to the Ohrid, Gostivar, Struga, Debar and to Mavrovo, have lived Penestians whith the capital Uscana (Kicevo), and this Illyrian tribe had flat plis/qeleshe, at the time of Skanderbeg is called Dibran, because was in use of all regions of Dibra. North Albania holds also flat plis/qeleshe but is much shorter from dibra region. Southern Albania holds the round plis/qeleshe but much longer than it from Dardanians (see 10) - Laberian plis/qeleshe.
    Headgear that the Albanians be using the time of the ancient Illyrian-Pelasgians. White fez, kilt, tirqit, mintani with black braids, or Albanian xhubleta (4.000 years old at least), still alive ... Well, these are the Albanian original heritage , because no nation in the world has not previously used except Albanians and yet we have remained without any break tradition.


    - Zeus-Poseiodn; Zues-Hades; Zeus
    http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...4_329405_n.jpg

    - Dielli (Sun) and Merkuri (Hermes/Thot/Idris)
    http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6580153_n.jpg

    -This one os from Illyrian tribe PHRYGASE or Bryghians, aliie whith Troyans (not to say the Troyans itself)
    http://www.forumishqiptar.com/attach...1&d=1213317762

    - Apollo
    http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/Olympia79.JPG

    -Here we have the famous apple, which fez Atlas whith qeleshe/plis in the head gives it to Hercules who hold the weight of the world with the help of Athens
    http://www.grisel.net/images/greece/OlympiaHercules.JPG

    - PATROCLES and ACHILES
    http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/...patroclose.jpg

    - Odysseus
    http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/8...aramontoq7.jpg

    - Collection Albani
    http://i48.tinypic.com/5lth05.jpg
    http://i47.tinypic.com/2n8n9fn.jpg
    http://i47.tinypic.com/spaeiq.jpg

    Trojans


    Trojans:
    http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/13/54/17/87/568-od10.jpg


    This vase (where is Illyrian Kadmi whith qeleshe/plis) preserved in the Louvre Museum - Paris
    Plis in lab variant, called a qeleshe, and usually has an little "antenna" on top, as Illyrian Kadmi in this very important artifact.

    Kàstor (greek Κάστωρ, -ορος, lat. Castōr, -ŏris) e Pollùksi or Polideuks (greek Πολυδεύκης, -ου, lat. Pollūx, -ūcis) these two names are from Greek and Roman mythology, twin sons of Zeus and Ledia, known above all as "sons of Zeus", as well as the Kàstor




    + http://www.fotografo.to/to1/images/f...o-IMG_0270.JPG

    + Ancient Macedonians http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3040852_n.jpg



    Zeus, Athena and Hephastius


    ...somewhere in the recesses of the Vatican!
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6849517_n.jpg

    S33.2 DIOSKOUROI

    Museum Collection: Museo Archeologico Nazionale di Napoli, Naples, Italy
    Catalogue Number: TBA
    Title: "Dioscuri"
    Class: Free-standing statue
    Material: Marble
    Height: --
    Context: --
    Original / Copy: --
    Style: --
    Date: --
    Period: Imperial Roman
    SUMMARY
    One of a pair of statues, depicting the Dioskouroi twins, with travellers caps, chamlys capes and horse-heads by their feet
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3054070_n.jpg

    Achille chez le roi Lycomede, Louvre museum
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6277591_n.jpg


    Let's see somthing from books, because like I always do:
    Encyclop℗edie M℗ethodique, Ou Par Ordre De Matieres: Par Une Soci ..., Volume 3
    By F℗elix Vicq-d'Azur, Jean Le Rond d' Alembert, 1786
    Quote: Ce bonnet étoit fait ep cône, 8c ressembloit à un casque. A la plaçe de l'aigrette de celui-ci, on attachoit à ï'apex une baguette recouverte de laine blanche , appelée proprement apex. De là vint le nom des Flamines, selon Servius, a Filaminibus. II est inutile de faire sentir le ridicule de cette étymologie. La forme de ce bonnet, qui ressembloit un peu à la cause ou casque Macédonien, le fit appeler bonnet d'Epire ou d'Albanie, pileus Epiroticus. Les Grecs le nommoient v'Ui,ut<


    Il perfetto dittionario overo tesoro della lingua volgar Latina
    1666
    Pietro Galesini










    + http://i43.tinypic.com/1pvsy1.png
    + http://i40.tinypic.com/nlafzr.png


    ...


    Video:
    Albanian Hat - Odysseus, Patroculus, Ptolemey
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1tvmnc3cVU

    ... and President Clinton also gave a symbolic message to the world about the albanian Plis/Qeleshe


    Read more about albanian qeleshe/plis:
    THE “IGNORANCE” OF THE ‘QELESHE’ http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
    And this one, just in case... http://zeus10.webs.com/
    Last edited by Besir Bajrami; 25-09-11 at 09:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Besir Bajrami View Post
    Wikipedia again :S
    You just translated that piece of book, who tell us that Molossians are dissolved in today's Albanians, and their name in albanian is Mountain, or Malesia... Mountain people... they are connected whith ancient Macedonians (who where Thraco-Illyrian extract)... also, latter Molossians were colonized (for someone Hellenized) by hellens, that's why wikipedia call them greeks, but you should read ancient writters for these questions, and dont take ancient world as a greek monopoly. Open your mind...


    ... and President Clinton also gave a symbolic message to the world about the albanian Plis/Qeleshe


    Read more about albanian qeleshe/plis:
    THE “IGNORANCE” OF THE ‘QELESHE’ http://zeus10.wordpress.com/
    And this one, just in case... http://zeus10.webs.com/

    I translated a part of something which I do not know what it was.

    So, you say, Albanians are molossians, who are an epirote tribe, who where Phygians.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ep...rn_borders.jpg
    makes sense, New epirus which is modern Albania. Better than the barbarian illyrians which are north of you

    So, epidamnus bacame Durres?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    I have looked at the evidence myself and there isn't anything to connect Albanian ethos to Illyrians.

    But what I've come to realize about nationalism and history is that it doesn't necessarily have to match or be accurate/truthfull, as long as the people think it is, that is good enough. I can think of three countries in the balkans off the top of my head who have this mentality. (four if you count Turkey as a balkan country).
    tell me what are this evidence, prove what you say so you dont become a liar my friend !
    (and i am sorry for not talking about the topic , "fustanella")

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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimo_m View Post
    tell me what are this evidence, prove what you say so you dont become a liar my friend !
    (and i am sorry for not talking about the topic , "fustanella")
    No i'm not, because all albanian evidence about being Illyrian is just greek with an attempt to say how its not greek. You go in circles. I'm not going to argue with a nationalist. Have a good day.

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    there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
    and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original

    thank you, Now I am sure,
    when I see an alliance of Northern Albanians and Fyrom-ians I am certain of truth is not there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
    and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original
    I'm sure you are referring to all our ancestors, otherwise attach reference, so we all know who you referring to.


    there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
    and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original

    thank you, Now I am sure,
    when I see an alliance of Northern Albanians and Fyrom-ians I am certain of truth is not there
    Also I suggest that you keep tone of your posts neutral if not friendly. We don't need another Balkan war here.
    Last edited by LeBrok; 07-10-11 at 19:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yatos
    there is nothing worse than the traitor, who change religion and language to get profit,
    and then say to the ones who don't change that he is the original

    thank you, Now I am sure,
    when I see an alliance of Northern Albanians and Fyrom-ians I am certain of truth is not there
    Friend, I believe we differ. There is nothing worse than when a person identifies his nationality through religion and church.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrikë View Post
    Friend, I believe we differ. There is nothing worse than when a person identifies his nationality through religion and church.
    Was that the reasoning when the muslim albanians were trying to force the arvanites to convert to islam? Albanians were Ottoman sell-outs, now you are sell outs to however will recognize the illegal state of Kosovo. Your logic is meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    I'm sure you are referring to all our ancestors, otherwise attach reference, so we all know who you referring to.




    Also I suggest that you keep tone of your posts neutral if not friendly. We don't need another Balkan war here.


    thank you I will try

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    Please guys, keep it civilized. No personal or national attacks.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias2 View Post
    Was that the reasoning when the muslim albanians were trying to force the arvanites to convert to islam? Albanians were Ottoman sell-outs, now you are sell outs to however will recognize the illegal state of Kosovo. Your logic is meaningless.
    Your argument, if one can call it such, is based on historical inaccuracies. I am not informed on your general knowledge regarding the conversion of Albanians to Islam, however I can see you have some facts wrong: when did the Muslim Albanians force the Arvanites to convert to Islam, and if such were the case how come that some Arvanite families were indeed Muslim way before let's say Northern Albanians; Albanians are not sell-outs, if they were such then one would assume that all Albanians are Muslims, Catholics or Orthodox Christian, which is not the case at all. Some Albanians converted perhaps for beneficiaries of different kind, but there are many Suffi and Sunni Albanians who converted to Islam before 1453.
    Regarding the topic on whether our diplomacy is as you call it with such a vulgar term a "sell-out", I can only stand aghast at how a person could be so void of elementary knowledge on diplomacy, therefore I shall kindly ignore that part.
    BUT, on the case of an illegal state of Kosova, I do have much more to add:
    on January 20th of 1953 the status as a Autonomic Region of Kosova was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly;
    In 1968, 1971, 1972 peaceful demonstrations occurred throughout Kosova, where Albanians rightfully were demonstrating for an autonomous state; In all of these cases Albanians were put to prison, such as in the case of 1968 where only 13 of them had a hearing and 130 were put to prison without ever getting to have a say.
    on February 28th of 1974, a new Constitution for Kosova as an Autonomic Region of Yugoslavia was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly thus making Kosova juridically a federation of Yugoslavia;
    In 1981 again a peaceful demonstration demanding an autonomous state of Kosova occurred, once again organized by the students. Throughout the demonstrations civilians were attacked by tear-gas and randomly beaten up. Over 300 Albanian intellectuals were arrested and dismissed from their working positions.
    Let's fast forward to the '90's, where 90% of Albanians got fired from their jobs, the schools and University were closed, teachers and professors got randomly called up to the police station to get a free round of beating-up, a good number of them remained in jail for "resisting arrest". Naturally, no hearings for these people ever occurred. Because of this Albanians used private houses to hold lectures and classes, without any payment. By this time Albanians lived off of the diaspora because they had no other incomes or salaries.
    In 1990 Albanians formed a legally rightful Assembly of Kosovo, and on July the 2nd 1990 Albanians declared independence and compiled the Constitution of Kosova.
    Because of this 28 Albanians were killed, thousands of children poisoned in peaceful demonstrations.
    On Septmber the 26th of 1991 a plebiscite was organized in Kosova, the results of which pointed out de jure the constituionally given right for self-determination.
    By this time Serbia was already preparing for war and genocide, while Albanians peacefully required what was theirs to have.

    I would also like to add that it is only now that I noticed that you presume my position to be against the church or any church per se. I shall say this, however irrelevant to the discussion, I am of Catholic background, but I would never consider myself to being a Catholic and a member of the church prior to being an Albanian. So excuse my struggle to understand Greeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrikë View Post
    Your argument, if one can call it such, is based on historical inaccuracies. I am not informed on your general knowledge regarding the conversion of Albanians to Islam, however I can see you have some facts wrong: when did the Muslim Albanians force the Arvanites to convert to Islam, and if such were the case how come that some Arvanite families were indeed Muslim way before let's say Northern Albanians; Albanians are not sell-outs, if they were such then one would assume that all Albanians are Muslims, Catholics or Orthodox Christian, which is not the case at all. Some Albanians converted perhaps for beneficiaries of different kind, but there are many Suffi and Sunni Albanians who converted to Islam before 1453.
    Regarding the topic on whether our diplomacy is as you call it with such a vulgar term a "sell-out", I can only stand aghast at how a person could be so void of elementary knowledge on diplomacy, therefore I shall kindly ignore that part.
    BUT, on the case of an illegal state of Kosova, I do have much more to add:
    on January 20th of 1953 the status as a Autonomic Region of Kosova was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly;
    In 1968, 1971, 1972 peaceful demonstrations occurred throughout Kosova, where Albanians rightfully were demonstrating for an autonomous state; In all of these cases Albanians were put to prison, such as in the case of 1968 where only 13 of them had a hearing and 130 were put to prison without ever getting to have a say.
    on February 28th of 1974, a new Constitution for Kosova as an Autonomic Region of Yugoslavia was approved by the Yugoslavian Assembly thus making Kosova juridically a federation of Yugoslavia;
    In 1981 again a peaceful demonstration demanding an autonomous state of Kosova occurred, once again organized by the students. Throughout the demonstrations civilians were attacked by tear-gas and randomly beaten up. Over 300 Albanian intellectuals were arrested and dismissed from their working positions.
    Let's fast forward to the '90's, where 90% of Albanians got fired from their jobs, the schools and University were closed, teachers and professors got randomly called up to the police station to get a free round of beating-up, a good number of them remained in jail for "resisting arrest". Naturally, no hearings for these people ever occurred. Because of this Albanians used private houses to hold lectures and classes, without any payment. By this time Albanians lived off of the diaspora because they had no other incomes or salaries.
    In 1990 Albanians formed a legally rightful Assembly of Kosovo, and on July the 2nd 1990 Albanians declared independence and compiled the Constitution of Kosova.
    Because of this 28 Albanians were killed, thousands of children poisoned in peaceful demonstrations.
    On Septmber the 26th of 1991 a plebiscite was organized in Kosova, the results of which pointed out de jure the constituionally given right for self-determination.
    By this time Serbia was already preparing for war and genocide, while Albanians peacefully required what was theirs to have.

    I would also like to add that it is only now that I noticed that you presume my position to be against the church or any church per se. I shall say this, however irrelevant to the discussion, I am of Catholic background, but I would never consider myself to being a Catholic and a member of the church prior to being an Albanian. So excuse my struggle to understand Greeks.
    Actually there is no inaccuracies, you trying to cover the truth in a political manner doesn't hide it. Albanians were turkish thugs in the balkans, and why you were known as turko-albanians. I'm not trying to play the politician like you are, I just speak my mind, and that albanians were turkish sell-outs is correct, then you try and degrade greeks because they kept their religion, or its identity is based on a religion, is halarious flaw of the albanian character. Albanians have no identity, you exist but don't know why and from where because you never developed an identitify, now you try to affiliate yourselves with anything in your geographical area in the historic past.

    Now albanians are trying to trace their limited history and can't find anything because they never developed a sence of personal identity, so today they just grab everything that they can and nationalize it, great job. The only thing albanians can say about themselves for certain is that they are albanian, and everything else is myth.

    And Kosovo is an Illegal state, it was partitioned Illegaly from Serbia, yugoslavia didn't exist anymore and internal Yugoslav politics became void. Kosovo doesn't have enough UN votes to recognise it as a seperate state. Right now its more of a NATO Vassel region, where its sovereignty is based entirely on foreign influence. If NATO forces were to leave kosovo tomorrow it would be apart of Serbia again.

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    Turkish lackeys, and if anyone doesn't know, the bulgarians they are referring to are the people of FYROM. Albanians in FYROM should show more respect to them considering what they have done. This isn't the only instance either, but you can play your politician and deny it, but anyone with half a brain can see the truth.

    This article is hitting two birds with one stone so-to-speak.

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    A cropped article from an 'independent' gazette(we don't know though, you failed to mention the name)? Seriously try to keep up. I have no intention to continue a discussion with a person who considers hate-speech a conventional way of discussing on the forums and also you have no clue on jurisdiction either, so consider this discussion ended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrikë View Post
    A cropped article from an 'independent' gazette(we don't know though, you failed to mention the name)? Seriously try to keep up. I have no intention to continue a discussion with a person who considers hate-speech a conventional way of discussing on the forums and also you have no clue on jurisdiction either, so consider this discussion ended.
    I have no hate speach, but when I hear albanians spew out utter crap about their nationalistic view of history and the world, I won't hesistate to counter with reality. Have a good day.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Please Elias, stop these senseless provocations. Thanks mirke for keeping it on a level till the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    Please Elias, stop these senseless provocations. Thanks mirke for keeping it on a level till the end.
    I don't mind sounding like the "bad guy", I don't care for political correctness. This is a discussion board for discussing, not for acting like politicians.

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    If you think it's a discussion board therefore everything goes then you are mistaken.
    Read this:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/announcement.php?f=31
    (4) ABUSIVE BEHAVIOUR : repeated, abusive posts that are intended only to attack other members, ethnic groups, countries, or organizations.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeBrok View Post
    If you think it's a discussion board therefore everything goes then you are mistaken.
    Read this:
    http://www.eupedia.com/forum/announcement.php?f=31
    (4) ABUSIVE BEHAVIOUR : repeated, abusive posts that are intended only to attack other members, ethnic groups, countries, or organizations.
    Ok, go ahead and quote me when I have racially attacked him, or other albanians in this forum.

    I used the term "turkish-lackey" as an accurate description of the role of albanians played during the Ottoman period. When ever there was a christian uprising in the balkans, the Porte could always count on albanians to help supress the uprising.



    What I find funny about his whole thread is that Albania didn't have a national movement untill the very end stages of Ottoman rule in the balkans. The muslim albanians were loyal Turkish subject untill the end. They tried forcefully on many instances to convert the non-muslim albanian speaking people like the arvanites to islam aswell. Furthermore Mrike made the comment, "There is nothing worse than when a person identifies his nationality through religion and church." When albanians were trying to convert other albanian speaking people to islam, I guess it ultimatly failed which is why he made that comment


    The albanians posters here have the disease called nationalism, trying to constuct a historiagraphy of albania that suites the political reality, more makes albanians look more heroic/greater then what reality presents. This is the same for all nationalism everywhere. Albanians didn't have a written language untill the early 20th century, yet somehow they can trace Illyrian words in the albanian language, which is a standarised Tosk dialect, not Gheg.

    Trying to connect albanians to some antiquity population is also amusing considering the first evidence of the arrival of albanian speaking people we have is during the middle ages. The primary evidence they show is trying to connect albanians to Illyrians clothing that people used to wear to modern varients. This isn't evidence, all people in antiquity wore more or less the same thing across the mediterranean. They even quote authors that wrote over 90 years ago. Alot has been uncovered and brought to light since then. The Dorian invasion is not taken seriously anymore, and neither is the notion that albanians culturally decend form Ilyrians. The population that lived in the modern geographical area of albanian prior to the middles ages would be very different culturally than it is today.

    Albanians wre hired as mercenaries in the middle ages as horsemen. Albania is a very mountainous region and horse riding would be very hard. Being horsemen from outside of Albanian and came in would be more logical, as alot of nomadic peopel were hired as mercenaries. Also, Albanian being very different than the surrounding languages that were prevaillent for centuries should be a green light that maybe it doesn't come from that area. Trying to push the idea that the albanian people lived remotely is why there is little influence is nationalistic rubbish, roman had mines in the mountains of albania as well as roman roads.



    So albanian nationalists stop it with this seclulded life of persevarance that preserved Illyrian culture to present rhetoric, its simply not true, that area of Albania was connected to the world like everywhere else. If there was a very distinct people that lived in that area we would see more ancient writers write about them. I see more writing on Etheopians, a people in sub sahara africa that people that lived on the coast of the adriatic.

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    The first Laxicon Of (Albanian) Language was written by a Famous Arvanitis, named Marco Botsari,

    in the speech of and the written of Botsari we found an Greek Aromani and Albanian Language,

    the first Lexicon who published in Paris contains 20 000 words,

    Yet this Man was slained By Albanians, as the whole of his tribe, Sulliotes,
    A genocide

    the most industrial area of modern Albania was Moschopolis, An Aromani town,

    yet that town was Burned and erased from map,

    when the Makedonian was on, Greek captains were slained By Albanian Geg who served the Turkish or the Bulgarian Forces,

    In Upper Makedonia there is a Mountain called Neve ska
    it means go away, there is no woman to marry here,
    the reason , ask the local Aromani,

    in minor Asia, when a Roman-Greek change religion should learn also the language, Turkish there,
    In Balkans when someone change religion instead of Turkish he Learned Albanian,

    About poverty, Just think that from Roman times 000 tones of Silver were there,
    Turkish coins Aspra had silver from Albania,
    the daughter of the president has >3% of JP MORGAN,
    and is not only silver, think or search what else,

    Besides the only country that has base in Albania is Turks, a big Naval Base,

    Hodza was smart, He had tried to reject History, and write a new one, who say that from Italy to Japan the world is Albanian,
    they are pure, no connection with races, they are ancient, they come from Illyrians, and they are the original Ancient Greeks,
    Modern Albania after the oppening to world, and reject Isolation of Hodza is more scientific and logic,

    People went to work abroad and see the 'stories' are not like that,

    But some payed agents still work the same way as before,

    reminds me the story of Zanipolo said about a book in ex-Yugoslavia,

    in WW2 when Hitler spoke Arian race manage to create wars, and fanaticks,
    the most famous in Balkans were the SS Scanderberg,

    same way modern ALbanians in order to raise Nationalistic morale for the case of Kossovo,
    Some Albanians repeat a Nazi propaganda,
    Thank Gods not even in their country people believe them,


    Elias is write about that,
    It is another story to raise morale, and another to write 'scientific proves' and etc in order to achieve morale and unification,

    Just think, why Albanians consider Kastriotis a national Hero, and Not Vallavan pasha when 74% have more common with Vallavan and not with Kastrioti,

    Besides the First Time that word Arbanites is written was to describe Gen Maniaki's Army, and not a nation, as written in Anna Komnini books, (Αννα Κομνηνη)
    Maniakis was Asian part of Con/polis area Skoutari (Turkish Iskutar)

    and the find out why the first written in Albanian language is 5 centuries later,


    Just consider that according Greek news pappers, 'Τυποσ της Κυριακης'
    A fine 100 000 lek (700) Euro will be to the one that declare that are fom Greek origin in the Census,
    why? cause officially in Albania exist a big Greek minority,
    so in order to drop the % and raise the homogenous of the country they will put a fine of 700 E to the ones that declare that are from Greek descentants,

    consider that in Ottoman empire the religious tax was the same,
    700 E is 2 months sallary,

    besides if you look at the above
    the Pilos or Pils, the Hat,
    so Odysseus was Albanian, !!!!!!
    and Not Albanians Greeks !!!
    or both had a same ancestor the Pelasgians,

    That kind of Science is called Eπιλεκτικη,
    it means I choose with Branch I will follow, with criteria not scientific, but personal,

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    The first Laxicon Of (Albanian) Language was written by a Famous Arvanitis, named Marco Botsari,



    in the speech of and the written of Botsari we found an Greek Aromani and Albanian Language,

    the first Lexicon who published in Paris contains 20 000 words,

    Yet this Man was slained By Albanians, as the whole of his tribe, Sulliotes,
    A genocide
    Marko Boçari was killed in 1823 by Ottomans, not Albanian Muslims. And furthermore Marko Boçari is a national hero, praised by all Albanians alike. The claims you are presenting are incorrect, otherwise one would encounter this information other than Greek publications (where I presume you were informed). Funny remark though, Greeks don’t even have a letter to pronounce his name, namely ç. If you are interested you could read Aristidh Kolia.

    the most industrial area of modern Albania was Moschopolis, An Aromani town,

    yet that town was Burned and erased from map,

    when the Makedonian was on, Greek captains were slained By Albanian Geg who served the Turkish or the Bulgarian Forces,
    I cannot argue with hypothetical scenarios you are making, a friendly advice is that you include valid references because of your highly inarticulate syntax I can hardly understand what you are trying to say.

    In Upper Makedonia there is a Mountain called Neve ska
    it means go away, there is no woman to marry here,
    the reason , ask the local Aromani,
    Friend, we’re not telling fairy tales nor are we discussing folkloric myths and tales. Therefore, if you please…

    in minor Asia, when a Roman-Greek change religion should learn also the language, Turkish there,
    In Balkans when someone change religion instead of Turkish he Learned Albanian,
    I don’t even know where you get your information, man, you make no sense.

    About poverty, Just think that from Roman times 000 tones of Silver were there,
    Turkish coins Aspra had silver from Albania,
    the daughter of the president has >3% of JP MORGAN,
    and is not only silver, think or search what else,

    Besides the only country that has base in Albania is Turks, a big Naval Base,
    I shall laugh whole-heartedly at this. There are two major naval bases in Albania: Durrës and Vlorë(Sazan) and they are all run by the Albanian Army. A famous naval base during the communist era was Porto Palermo, which is a museum now.

    Hodza was smart, He had tried to reject History, and write a new one, who say that from Italy to Japan the world is Albanian,
    they are pure, no connection with races, they are ancient, they come from Illyrians, and they are the original Ancient Greeks,
    Modern Albania after the oppening to world, and reject Isolation of Hodza is more scientific and logic,

    People went to work abroad and see the 'stories' are not like that,

    But some payed agents still work the same way as before,

    reminds me the story of Zanipolo said about a book in ex-Yugoslavia,

    in WW2 when Hitler spoke Arian race manage to create wars, and fanaticks,
    the most famous in Balkans were the SS Scanderberg,

    same way modern ALbanians in order to raise Nationalistic morale for the case of Kossovo,
    Some Albanians repeat a Nazi propaganda,
    Thank Gods not even in their country people believe them,
    I cannot agree with what you are saying. There is no nationalistic morale to rise of which you speak. The truth is that the moment an Albanian enters a forum to discuss peacefully the history of Albanians, the person is insulted such as “having a disease called nationalism”(sic!). Excuse me if I shall not stand by idly and see myself being accused of having a “Nazzi” ideology for simply sharing knowledge and information. I believe it to be of high importance to see both sides of the coin. If you disagree with my opinions I expect you to be a resourceful arguer if you tend to dispute my posts.

    Elias is write about that,
    It is another story to raise morale, and another to write 'scientific proves' and etc in order to achieve morale and unification,

    Just think, why Albanians consider Kastriotis a national Hero, and Not Vallavan pasha when 74% have more common with Vallavan and not with Kastrioti,

    Besides the First Time that word Arbanites is written was to describe Gen Maniaki's Army, and not a nation, as written in Anna Komnini books, (Αννα Κομνηνη)
    Maniakis was Asian part of Con/polis area Skoutari (Turkish Iskutar)

    and the find out why the first written in Albanian language is 5 centuries later,
    Ana Komnena (note the surname) states Albanoi as a population. You don’t need to spell her name in Greek, because it hardly adds any scientific credibility to it. When M. Attaleiates mentions Albanians by describing the uprising of 1043 he indirectly indicates that the Albanians and the Latins had been equal subjects of the Empire and had the same religion as the Byzantines but then had become fierce enemies. This would mean that in 1043 the Albanians, the inhabitants of the region of Albanon, Arbanon, were neither subjects of Byzantine nor Orthodox Christian. You can read further on this by browsing the works of Kristo Frashëri.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrikë View Post

    I cannot agree with what you are saying. There is no nationalistic morale to rise of which you speak. The truth is that the moment an Albanian enters a forum to discuss peacefully the history of Albanians, the person is insulted such as “having a disease called nationalism”(sic!). Excuse me if I shall not stand by idly and see myself being accused of having a “Nazzi” ideology for simply sharing knowledge and information. I believe it to be of high importance to see both sides of the coin. If you disagree with my opinions I expect you to be a resourceful arguer if you tend to dispute my posts.
    Albanian history that you and others try to present is Nationalist history. The un-true, artifical version that is spread to boost justifications of albanian current political reality in albania and Kosovo. By trying to claim albanians are decended from Illyrian, you are trying to prove that you have some sort of historic rights to the lands albanians currently occupy. Albanians do not decend from Illyrians, this is pretty obvious. And other claims I read here form albanians is pretty hilarious, albanians as epirots and Macedonians, this makes me laugh more.

    Albanians came to the balkans some time in the middle ages, from where is a good question to ask.

    P.S. Kosovo is still a illegal Vassel NATO state that will not get enough backing to join the UN any time soon.

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    Anna komneni original word is Αρβανιτες and their major city Αρβανον probably Berat around or little north,

    the same word is used to describe the Arbanites of Boiotia when they moved after invitation by the Latin-(Catholic) Duke of Athens,

    the rest is your imagination

    If you read all my posts then you know,

    Hodza is dead, and communist and Nazis are dead,

    Kossovo soon will split to 2 parts, the pristina-Kossyfopolis and the Petz-metochia

    a Biger Albania is on the way, they dont need facultated and imaginary fairy tales.
    there is also possibility of spliting Bosnia too, as also Greece and Fyrom creating big slavic makedonia, or big albania and Bulgaria,

    you can not re-write history,


    Albanian people which became nation at 1912, and their History is written by blood, wars, civil wars, etc,

    they don't need another facultated History, they deserve the truth,

    a Pelasgian Celtic and Dacian ancestry is truth, plus an extra possible Thracian in Kossyfopedio,

    the rest is just imaginary and facultated just to promote something that does not exist


    some Pelasgian some Celtic many Roman plus the the Basic Language of Germidava is the substractum of Albanian language, remeber Pelasgian + Celtic = Illyrian

    Turkish remnants exist in all Balkanic languages

    a case of Cuns is possible since Anjou and Hunyades had connection with Kumans,


    Stop reading Zeus10
    he is showing that Etruscan Pelasgian Ilyrians Greeks Troyans Thracians maybe even phillistines are Albanians, tomorrow he will wake and say that Romanians and Slovenians are also Albanians,

    Just ask your shelf, why you make National Hero Kastrioti and Not Vallavan pasa, since 74% follows the the teach of Vallavan?


    as for moschopolis you can read about it,
    also you read about Ali pasa,
    also you can read who killed Paulos Melas (Miki Zeza) and whom he served,

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