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  1. #201
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Anna komneni original word is Αρβανιτες and their major city Αρβανον probably Berat around or little north,

    the same word is used to describe the Arbanites of Boiotia when they moved after invitation by the Latin-(Catholic) Duke of Athens,

    the rest is your imagination

    If you read all my posts then you know,

    Hodza is dead, and communist and Nazis are dead,

    Kossovo soon will split to 2 parts, the pristina-Kossyfopolis and the Petz-metochia

    a Biger Albania is on the way, they dont need facultated and imaginary fairy tales.

    you can not re-write history,


    Albanian people which became nation at 1912, and their History is written by blood, wars, civil wars, etc,

    they don't need another facultated History, they deserve the truth,

    a Pelasgian Celtic and Dacian ancestry is truth, plus an extra possible Thracian in Kossyfopedio,

    the rest is just imaginary and facultated just to promote something that does not exist
    Please re-check your facts, because on Book IV chapter VIII and page 154/book VI Ana Komnena clearly uses the word Αλβανοί. Greeks call Albanians with the name Arvanites, maybe you are confused by that. On this topic perhaps you should consult with Xρονογραφια της 'Ἠπειρου by Π. Αραβαντινου. To be more specific the transformation of arv-alb is known to occur from Byzantine texts to Latin ones and vice-versa.
    I am not that shocked at the opinions you hold regarding the origin of Albanians, but what what makes me awe-struck is the fact that you're trying to falsify historical sources on behalf of people who don't speak Greek. If you continue to make up historical events that never occurred, I fear that I am forced to end the discussion and disregard your posts in general.
    Last edited by mrikë; 10-10-11 at 20:02. Reason: addendum

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrikë View Post
    Please re-check your facts, because on Book IV chapter VIII and page 154/book VI Ana Komnena clearly uses the word Αλβανοί. Greeks call Albanians with the name Arvanites, maybe you are confused by that. On this topic perhaps you should consult with Xρονογραφια της 'Ἠπειρου by Π. Αραβαντινου. To be more specific the transformation of arv-alb is known to occur from Byzantine texts to Latin ones and vice-versa.
    I am not that shocked at the opinions you hold regarding the origin of Albanians, but what what makes me awe-struck is the fact that you're trying to falsify historical sources on behalf of people who don't speak Greek. If you continue to make up historical events that never occurred, I fear that I am forced to end the discussion and disregard your posts in general.



    what book and what edition you have?

    the original word as used by both Attaleiates and Anna komneni is Αρβανιτες, and are recogned as the Sicilian Guard in the Army of Maniakis

    according these books Arbanites came from Sicily by Maniakis at his revolt to gain the Throne,

    the penguin 1969 and the Late Barbara Hill (author) indeed use the word Albani but is translation,

    search the original text in Greek-Byzantine of Kurtz 1907 of the epos Αλεξιας (Alexiad)

    All edition after 1928 use the term Albanoi only the original and the old edition of 1907 use the word Αρβανιτεc

    sorry but when you read something read the original.


    4.8.4 Ὁ δὲ βασιλεὺς τοὺς ἑλιγ μοὺς τῶν παρακειμένων ὀρῶν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν δύσβατον ἀτραπὸν ἐν δυσὶ νυχθημέροις διεξελθὼν καταλαμβάνει τὴν Ἀχρίδα. Ἐν δὲ τῷ μεταξὺ τὸν Χαρζάνην διελθὼν καὶ μικρὸν περὶ τὴν καλουμένην Βαβαγορὰν ἐγκαρτερήσας (τέμπος δ' αὕτη δύσβατόν ἐστι), μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς ἥττης μήθ' ὑπὸ τῶν ἄλλων τοῦ μόθου κακῶν τὸν νοῦν συγχυθεὶς μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς κατὰ τὸ μέτωπον τοῦ τραύματος ὀδύνης ὑποχα λάσας, κἂν τὰ ἐντὸς ὑπὸ τῆς λύπης τῶν ἐν τῇ μάχῃ πε πτωκότων καὶ μᾶλλον τῶν γενναίως ἀγωνισαμένων ἀνδρῶν ἐξεφλέγετο. Ἀλλ' ὅμως τῆς πόλεως ὅλος ἦν Δυρραχίου καὶ ταύτης ἐμέμνητο ἀχθόμενος ὅτι ἄτερ ἡγεμόνος κατα λέλειπτο τοῦ Παλαιολόγου διὰ τὴν ὀξεῖαν συμβολὴν τοῦ πολέμου μὴ δυνηθέντος ἐπαναστρέψαι. Καὶ ὡς ἐνὸν τοὺς κατ' αὐτὴν ἠσφαλίσατο καὶ τὴν τῆς ἀκροπόλεως φρουρὰν τοῖς ἐκκρίτοις Βενετίκοις τῶν ἐκεῖσε ἀποίκων ἀνέθετο, τὴν δέ γε ἐπίλοιπον πᾶσαν πόλιν τῷ ἐξ Ἀρβάνων ὁρμω μένῳ Κομισκόρτῃ τὰ συνοίσοντα, διὰ γραμμάτων ὑποθέμενος.

    Original text by Kurtz edition. 1907

    in Book six we read a battle of Robert with Γεωργιος in Αυλωνα Κορυφω Επιδαμνον και Δυρραχιον Μοσυνουπολις
    the ones you change to Vlore Korce Durress Voskopolje Like the turks did
    and the adventures of Robert in minor Asia
    there is not a mention in book six, only city names which i gave


    now you may reconsider your thesis,
    and ask for sorry cause your Nationalism blinds you,


    again you are wrong if you read Arabantinos Thomopoulos A.Kolla and the others,
    they are fairy tellers

    Arbanon and arbanites is the form until about 1400-1500 after 14-1500 we find 1rst time the word Albanoi again as albanites
    the reform from arb to Alb although is yet unknown why,
    probably an inner name, or more good sound or pronounce,
    or by the Hunyades and Al from ALBA Lullia, or when got in touch with Turks, or by th Anju
    Cause at Progoni time the official name was Arberia

    Besides the latin from was Urbanites from Urban or Urbanon
    possible difference from Villachi who lived in villas

    Next time you provoke me or insult me plz have the correct text and a translation.

    It is another story to be proud of what you are, and another story to be proud by something that you are not, and try to convice your self with fake History

    except if ironically Anna komnene knew English and wrote original in English
    or your Translator was Zeus10


    Guys again plz stop reading History by Zeus10
    Last edited by Yetos; 11-10-11 at 21:53.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  3. #203
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    Why no one here is not speaking about the topic ?!

    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    I translated a part of something which I do not know what it was.

    So, you say, Albanians are molossians, who are an epirote tribe, who where Phygians.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ep...rn_borders.jpg
    makes sense, New epirus which is modern Albania. Better than the barbarian illyrians which are north of you

    So, epidamnus bacame Durres?

    Ncncnc... why you don't teach the basic history about this region, than to ask me these kind of questions, and preferably not in this topic, what is for people who dont have complexes from the undisputed autochthony of the Albanians.
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4863425_n.jpg
    +If there is a truly autochthonous race in the world it is certainly the Albanian race, as it is formed of the descendants of the Pelasgians and has kept for centuries the unique qualities of energy and intelligence which characterized its ancestors.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=tPE...ed=0CCsQ6AEwAA

    + Alber Pike, and others: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page6

    First lesson is to understand the difference of the Colonizers from Indigenous (native, autochthon people).
    You make the same mistake whith the maps what you've posted here.

    "Epidamnos was noted for being a politically advanced society, prompting Aristotle[7] to praise its political system in controlling trade between the Greek COLONISTS and the LOCAL "barbarians"... After the Illyrian Wars with the Roman Republic in 229 BC ended in a decisive defeat for the Illyrians, the city passed to Roman rule, under which it was developed as a major military and naval base. The Romans renamed it Dyrrachium"

    Ancient writers tell us that Epirus was inhabitet by barbarians
    http://www.google.com/#q=epirus+barb...w=1024&bih=602

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-a...w=1024&bih=602

    Also, Herodotus, speaking of some settlements held to be Pelaigic, and existing in his time, terms their language 'barbarous' (non-greek).

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...9_545192_n.jpg

    Herodotos, Volume 1
    By Herodotus, Heinrich Stein
    Page 182
    History - 1880
    The Pelasgians were a different nation from the Hellenes : their language was peculiar, and not Greek:
    ...this were really so, and the entire Pelasgic race spoke the same tongue, the Athenians, who were certainly Pelasgi, must have changed their language at the same time that they passed into the Hellenic body;
    ...for it is a certain fact that the people of Creston speak a language unlike any of their neighbours, and the same is true of the Placianians, while the language spoken by these two people is the same;
    ...which shows that they both retain the idiom which they brought with them into the countries where they are now settled.
    ...It was a branch of the Pelasgic, which separated from the main body, and at first was scanty in numbers and of little power;
    ...but it gradually spread and increased to a multitude of nations, chiefly by the voluntary entrance into its ranks of numerous tribes of barbarians.
    ...The Pelasgi, on the other hand, were, as I think, a barbarian race which never greatly multiplied.
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4981913_n.jpg

    By the way, ancient greek writers tell us that: ...the whole Greece was inhabited by "barbarians".
    Hecatæus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus, that, before the time of the Greeks, it was inhabited by barbarians. Perhaps even the whole of Greece was, anciently, a settlement of barbarians, if we judge from former accounts.
    http://perseus.uchicago.edu/perseus-...y=Str.%207.7.2

    Strabo (7.7.1) and Pausanias (1.41.8) both offer the opinion that Hellas was once entirely or almost entirely inhabited by barbarians
    http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b...dt-greeks.html

    +
    The region of epirus by most of the facts that ancient historians have given to us seems to be a non greek region:
    1)"Thucydides" In his book (Peloponessian War) He describes the Barbarian Allies of the Peloponessians.
    "From the Hellenes there were the Ambraciots, Leucadians and 1000 Peloponessian hoplites."
    "From the Barbarians there were: 1000 Chaones wich have no King but 2 Prostates for 1 year Fotis and Nikanores. The Chaones are joint by Thesprotes wich they to have no King. In the head of the Mollosians and the Atintanians was Sabylinthius wich was the tutor of King Tharypa (yet still a child). There were also the Parauey with their King Oroides and 1000 Orestes."
    In Greek From Ancient Text..
    Ο στρατός του περιελάμβανεν
    Έλληνας μεν Αμπρακιώτας και Λευκαδίους, και Ανακτόρους και τους χιλίους Πελοποννησίους, επι κεφαλής των οποίων είχεν έλθει ο ίδιος,
    βαρβάρους δε χιλίους Χάονας, οι οποίοι, αβασίλευτοι όντες, είχαν αρχηγούς τον Φώτυον και τον Νικάνορα, οι οποίοι κατήγοντο από το αρχοντικόν γένος που ήσκει ενιαυσίως την αρχήν. Μαζί με τους Χάονας εξεστράτευσαν και οι θεσπρωτοί, οι οποίοι ήσαν επίσης αβασίλευτοι. Δύναμις Μολοσσών και Ατιντάνων, εξ άλλου, ήτο υπό την αρχηγίαν του Σαβυλίνθου, επιτρόπου του βασιλέως Θαρύπου, ο οποίος ήτο ακόμη ανήλικος, και δύναμις Παραυαίων υπό την αρχηγίαν του βασιλέως Οροίδου. Μαζί με τους Παραυαίους εξεστράτευσαν και χίλιοι Ορέσται, των οποίων βασιλεύς ήτο ο Αντίοχος, ο οποίος είχεν εμπιστευθή την αρχηγίαν των εις τον Όροιδον
    http://www.mikrosapoplous.gr/thucy/v...frame_main.htm

    2)"Skylax" He writes around (370-360 b.c) A Geographic book.
    He describes the People that lives in Adriatic and Ionian region.
    "In The North Adriatic lives the tribe of the Liburnians,
    "The middle and the South Adriatic sea Is Populated By Illyrians"
    "The Ionian sea is devided Between Chaons and Thesprots.Between them The Mollosians have opened an exit to the sea wich is (40 stadia=8Km)."
    "After Mollosia it comes Ambracia an Hellenic Polis,which is (80 stadia) away from the sea"
    "From there and down is Hellas no end"

    IN GREEK:
    ΑΜΒΡΑΚΙΑ. Μετά την Μολοττία,η Αμβρακία, ελληνική πόλη.Απέχει από την θάλασσα ογδόντα στάδια.Υπάρχει οχύρωμα και κλειστό λιμάνι.Από εδώ αρχίζει η Ελλάδα που φτάνει έως τον ποταμό Πηνειό και το Ομόλιο, πόλη των Μαγνήτων,που βρίσκεται στον ποταμό αυτό.Η ακτή της Αμβρακίας,εκατόν είκοσι στάδια.
    http://svorak.wordpress.com/2007/02/...CE%BA%CF%8D%CE
    %BB%CE%B1%CE%BE-%CE%BC%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%AC%CF%86%CF
    %81%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B7/

    3)Strabo book VII
    Hecataeus of Miletus says of the Peloponnesus that before the time of the Greeks it was inhabited by barbarians. Yet one might say that in the ancient times the whole of Greece was a settlement of barbarians,.... whereas the Dryopes, the Caucones, the Pelasgi, the Leleges, and other such peoples, apportioned among themselves the parts that are inside the isthmus--and also the parts outside, for Attica was once held by the Thracians who came with Eumolpus, {398} Daulis in Phocis by Tereus, {399} Cadmeia {400} by the Phoenicians who came with Cadmus, and Boeotia itself by the Aones and Temmices and Hyantes. Moreover, the barbarian origin of some is indicated by their names--Cecrops, Godrus, Aïclus, Cothus, Drymas, and Crinacus. And even to the present day the Thracians, Illyrians, and Epeirotes live on the flanks of the Greeks (though this was still more the case formerly than now); indeed most of the country that at the present time is indisputably Greece is held by the barbarians--Macedonia and certain parts of Thessaly by the thracians,and the parts above Acarnania and Aetolia by the Thesproti, the Cassopaei,the Amphilochi, the Molossi, and the Athamanes--Epeirotic tribes.

    4)Plutarch-----------(Pyrrhus)------------
    In his Book it is said:
    "From him Achilles came to have divine honors in Epirus, under the name of Aspetus, in the language of the country"
    Aspetus=Speito in Albanian and Fast in English.
    Pyrrhus was brought at the home of the Illyrian King Glaucias:
    "Thus being safe, and out of the reach of pursuit, they addressed themselves to Glaucias, then King of the Illyrians,and finding him sitting at home with his wife, they laid down the child before them."
    He was rised as an Illyrian Prince:
    "At present, therefore, he gave Pyrrhus into the charge of his wife, commanding he should be brought up with his own children; and a little later, the enemies sending to demand him, and Cassander himself offering two hundred talents, he would not deliver him up; but when he was twelve years old, bringing him with an army into Epirus, made him king."
    The Brotherhood between him and Glaucias sons:
    "He took a journey out of the kingdom to attend the marriage of one of Glaucias's sons, with whom he was brought up;"

    5)Strabo:
    He has writen about the passengers which passes the Egnatia road:
    "Starting from Epidamnus (Durres,Dyrrahio) and down to Apollonia, in the Right they have the tribes of Epirus....., in the Left they have the mountains of Illyria.....Then Sailing from Ambracian Golf and on, the places which is in the East and across Peloponnesous are Hellenic.
    Also he writes:
    "After the Epirotes and Illyrians, from the Hellenes are Akarnanes,Etoles,Lokries and Ezoles

    6)Appianus:---------(Historia Romana)-----------
    In his book "Historia Romana" it is an article about the Illyrians:
    " The Greeks call those people Illyrians who occupy the region beyond Macedonia and Thrace from Chaonia and Thesprotia to the river Danube. This is the length of the country. Its breadth is from Macedonia and the mountains of Thrace to Pannonia and the Adriatic and the foothills of the Alps. Its breadth is five days' journey and its length thirty - so the Greek writers say. The Romans measured the country and found its length to be upward of 1,000 kilometers and its width about 220."
    http://www.livius.org/ap-ark/appian/...an_1.html#%A71

    7)Ephores:
    He writes that: "the Head(start) of Hellas, is Akarnania from the West,because it is the first that contacts with the Epirots tribes"

    8)Malte Brun (Geographer from Danmark)
    Analised the Geography of Strabon, and came to concluson that
    Etolia and Akarnania, where considered by Ancient Greeks as Semi-Barbarians

    9)Strabo and Plutarchus
    They write that "Epirots speak a different language from the Greek,
    it resembles very much to Macedonian"

    10)Puqueville:
    When he speaks about Etolia and Akarnania, he sais that:
    these places are called Shqiperia, and the inhabitants where called Shqiptar

    11)Ch.Brouchneri (Geographer of the king of England)
    Albania(Shqiperia) is a province of European Turkey,
    In north it borders with Bosnia and Dalmatia,
    In south with Livadhia,in East with Thessalia and Macedonia

    12)Teodor Momsen (Historian)
    In his Book: (History of Ancient Rome).
    he calls the Epirotians, Albanians(Shqiptars) of antiquety.

    13)Laibnic (the so called Aristotles of modern times)
    In his letter sent in 24 January 1705, he writes that
    "The Language of Ancient Epirots might exist somewhere in Epirus"
    the same believes and

    14)J.E.Tunman:
    In Epirus lived only non-greeks populations, they spoke Macedonian which is the same with illyrian.the same believes and F.Bop,
    J.R.F.Ksilander, J.G.F.Han, J.F.Falmerajer , T.Mommsen

    15)P.Krecmer
    He writes that:
    All the group of North Tribes, from the borders of Epirus, at least from the times of Herodotus, had been called Illyrians, or Hyllirians which is more ancient.

    16)Edison L.Clark
    He writes:
    Albanians, Arnauts as the turks calls them, or Shqiptars,
    live in the territory of ancient Epirus and in the territory of illyrians in East Macedonia.
    From Montenegro(North) till the Ambracian Golf (South).
    He continues :
    Ancient Epirots are different from Ancient Greeks, like Albanians from todays Greeks.Epirots and Illyrians where neighbour tribes , but of the same blood, which spoke different dialects of the same language.

    17)Marinus Barletius:
    In His Book About the Life(biography) of the national hero of Albania , George Kastrioti - Scanderbeg:
    The title of his Book is"
    «HISTORIA DE VITA ET GESTIS SCANDERBEGI EPIROTARUM PRINCIPIS»

    18)Scanderbeg
    A letter that send to Prince of Tarranto , Giovani Antonio , Wrote:
    "My Forefathers were Epirotes , from which Pyrrhus rose who won the Romans"
    Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro (Pyrrhus the Great), who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.
    I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?

    18) Martin P. N. Nilson,”Studien z.Geschichte d’alten Epiros”, Lun, 1909
    Epirus in every Aspect is non Greek

    19) Leon the Clever ( X century a.d)
    The inhabitants of Epirus are Albanians

    20)Mihal Ducasnantari (Byzantine Cronist of XIV century)
    "The ruler of Janina Thomas Preliubovic , the so called "ALBANOKTONOS" (albanians killer) ,
    was Clearing Janina from Albanians , in a way that , he was sending Gjin Bua shpata Baskets with Albanian Eyes...

    21) Lord Byron (Childe Harold's)
    XLII
    Morn dawns; and with it stern Albania's hills,
    Dark Suli's rocks, and Pindus' inland peak,
    http://www.photoaspects.com/chesil/byron/childe1.html

    1
    Tambourgi! Tambourgi! thy 'larum afar
    Gives hope to the valiant, and promise of war;
    All the sons of the mountains arise at the note,
    Chimariot, Illyrian, and dark Suliote!
    In a Letter "31.10.1809" sending a letter he writes (Yannina - Albania)
    I first landed in Albania the ancient Epirus where we as far as Mount Tomarit
    excellently by the chief AH Pacha and after journeying through Illyria Chaonia ... crossed the Gulf Actium with a guard of fifty Albanians and passed the Achelous in our route through Acarnania...............
    http://books.google.com/books?id=jdo...ancient+Epirus

    Albania comprises part of Macedonia lllyria Chaonia and Epirus Iskander is the Turkish word for Alexander and the celebrated Scanderbeg Lord Alexander is alluded to in the third and fourth lines of the thirty eighth stanza I do not know whether I am correct in making Scandcrbeg the countryman of Alexander who was horn at Pella in Macedón but Mr Gibbon terms him so and adds Pyrrhus to the list in speaking of his exploits Of Albania
    http://books.google.com/books?id=jxc...#PRA1-PA703,M1

    22)Dr. Holland says when landing in Epirus
    The Albanian peasant or soldier words which in this country seem to be almost
    synonymous is here seen in the completeness of his national character and costume masculine in his features which slio
    http://books.google.com/books?id=muA...9q4Kto8vK9Yo-I

    23) Karl Marx (The Eastern Question , p.18)
    With Constantinople, she stands on the threshold of the Mediterranean; with
    Durazzo and the Albanian coast from Antivari to Arta, she is in the very center ....
    http://books.google.com/books?id=SZX...8sQO4#PPA18,M1

    24) Henry Holland
    I shall mention a few particulars as the gulf of Arta may be considered the outlet for the southern of Albania
    http://books.google.com/books?id=Ul0...+Arta#PPA84,M1

    25) The pro-Greek historian Spiro Muselimi,
    in his book "Historical Sight Through Thesprotia", edited in Joannina on 1974,
    "The bishop of Thesprotia in the year 1870 translated some parts of Bible into Albanian, as the people of orthodox faith of the region did not understand any word in Greek".

    26 The census held by the Turkish Administration in 1910 established that there were 83.000 orthodox and muslim Albanians in the region.

    27) The demographic map of the British military mission sent to the British government
    in London indicates that on the eve of the second World War, %75 of Chameria's population was Albanian.

    28) Catholic Encyclopedia of 1900

    Albania
    The ancient Epirus and Illyria, is the most western land occupied by the Turks in Europe.
    Its extreme length is about 290 miles, and its breadth from forty to ninety miles.
    On the west and southwest it is bounded by the Adriatic and the Ionian seas.
    It is generally divided into three regions: Upper Albania, from the Montenegrin
    frontier to the river Shkumbi; Lower Albania, or Epirus, from the Shkumbi to the Gulf of Arta;
    and Eastern Albania, to the east of the Schar-Dagh chain....
    After Scutari, Yanina is the largest and most interesting town of modern Albania.
    Near it are the ruins of the temple of Dodona,
    the cradle of pagan civilization in Greece.........
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01253b.htm

    29) Sathos (Greek Historian)
    "In Middle ages Thesprotia is referred as being inhabited by Albanian population"

    30) Golubinski
    The most famous and most learned champion of these reforms was
    Maximus the Greek, born at Arta, in Albania, and educated in Italy. He entered
    monastic life on Mount Athos, and in 1518 repaired to Russia.........
    http://www.literatures.info/russian_literature.htm

    31) Stefanos Skyloudis (letter to Greek foreign minister in 18/02/1877)
    " .....Albanians without a writing language ,undeveloped education , without a definite religion ,
    will not preserve for to long time their nationality , they will gradually assimilated from the Greeks of Epirus"
    READ THIS BOOK VERY USEFUL (ALI PASHA BIOGRAPHY) from 1823
    http://books.google.com/books?id=gsk...banian#PPP1,M2

    + The American review of reviews, Volume 47, Albert Shaw - Review of Reviews, 1913
    "These people are generally and in all probability accurately identified as the result of the combination of the ancient Illyrians, Macedonians, and Epirotes, who were all the descendants of the more ancient Pelasgians."


    ... and hundreds of thousands of other books, that describes Epirotes as Illyrian. Thracian and Illyrian (who formed the Macedonians), are represented today by the Albanians. Attention, all these aforementioned native cultures (known by one name as Pelasgian), for Greeks were barbaric, or, different from them. http://www.arberiaonline.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=172

    Also, in this document below, under the permission of the Greek Parliament, in 1867, is accepted that albanians are descent of Epirotes and Macedonians too.
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1201218_n.jpg

    Other books:

    BBC -reference-encyclopedia britannica

    Pyrrhus the Eagle, King of Epirus: 319 - 272 BC
    This is the story of Pyrrhus of Epirus - the fool of hope.
    His Origins
    Epirus
    The territory of Epirus was the mountainous coastal region of modern north-western Greece and southern Albania. To the north was Illyria and to the east Macedonia. To the Greeks the Epirotes were barbarians, although their ancestry was Dorian. Epirus was a poor land, rich only in warriors. The dominant tribe of Epirus were the Molossians.

    His Family
    The only Epirotes whom the Greeks regarded as Greek were the Aeacidae, royal house of the Molossians. Pyrrhus was a member of this family. The Aeacidae claimed descent from Achilles. Olympias, wife of Philip II of Macedon and mother of Alexander the Great, was an Aeacidae princess; making Pyrrhus a cousin of Alexander. In 334BC, when Alexander the Great began his conquest of the Persian Empire, the King of Epirus, Alexander the Molossian (uncle of Pyrrhus), attempted to conquer southern Italy. In 331BC he died in battle against the Romans. He was succeeded by Aeacides, father of Pyrrhus, but in 317BC Aeacides was driven from Epirus by a rebellion2. After this Epirus became a tribal federation instead of a kingdom.

    His Early Career
    His Path to a Throne
    Glaucias, King of Illyria, gave sanctuary to Pyrrhus as a child, and placed him on the throne of Epirus when he was twelve. He allied himself with Demetrius, son of Antigonus I3 of Macedon. In 302BC, whilst absent from his kingdom, he was dethroned by a palace coup and replaced by a kinsman Neoptolemus4. Lacking a kingdom, he fought for Demetrius in Syria, earning himself a reputation as a brave and talented warrior. Sent to Alexandria as a hostage under the terms of the peace treaty between Demetrius and Ptolemy I Soter5, he was befriended by Ptolemy, who restored him to the throne of Epirus in 297BC. Initially Pyrrhus shared his throne with Neoptolemus but soon had him assassinated. His rule in Epirus was absolute from now on.

    Plutarch, The Parallel Lives
    p347 The Life of Pyrrhus

    1 Historians tell us that the first king of the Thesprotians and Molossians after the flood was Phaethon, one of those who came into Epeirus with Pelasgus; but some say that Deucalion and Pyrrha established the sanctuary at Dodona and dwelt there among the Molossians. 2 In after time, however, Neoptolemus the son of Achilles, bringing a people with him, got possession of the country for himself, and left a line of kings descending from him. These were called after him Pyrrhidae; for he had the surname of Pyrrhus in his boyhood, and of his legitimate children by Lanassa, the daughter of Cleodaeus the son of Hyllus, one was named by him Pyrrhus. Consequently Achilles also obtained divine honours in Epeirus, under the native name of Aspetus. (spet=shpejt)

    Plutarch, The Parallel Lives
    p348 The Life of Pyrrhus

    ...Having thus outstripped their pursuers and reached a place of safety, the fugitives betook themselves to Glaucias the king of the Illyrians; and finding him sitting at home with his wife, they put the little child down on the floor before them. Then the king began to reflect. He was in fear of Cassander, who was an enemy of Aeacides, and held his peace a long time as he took counsel with himself. 2 Meanwhile Pyrrhus, of his own accord, crept across the floor, clutched the king's robe, and pulled himself on to his feet at the knees of Glaucias, who was moved at first to laughter, then to pity, as he saw the child clinging to his knees and weeping like a formal p353suppliant. Some say, however, that the child did not supplicate Glaucias, but caught hold of an altar of the gods and stood there with his arms thrown round it, and that Glaucias thought this a sign from Heaven. 3 Therefore he at once put Pyrrhus in the arms of his wife, bidding her rear him along with their children; and a little while after, when the child's enemies demanded his surrender, and Cassander offered two hundred talents for him, Glaucias would not give him up, but after he had reached the age of twelve years, actually conducted him back into Epeirus with an armed force and set him upon the throne there.


    That means that the king of Illyria has the authority to appoint the king of Epirus. Since we dont know any source showing us any war betwen Illyrians and Epiriots, or any invasion to each -other, the conclusion is: Illyria and Epirus were inhabitated from the same people.


    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6264260_n.jpg
    + http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pi...00001133356751
    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4392399_n.jpg

    Pyrrhys the King of the Epirotes [or the Albanians]
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7734748_n.jpg

    Pirro the king of the Epirotes or the Albanian
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4974570_n.jpg

    Struggle between Pyrrhus and Rome
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6024438_n.jpg

    Ivan Gavrilovich, Golovin - Published 1854 Adamant Media Corporation
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3356751&type=1

    The Balkans-A history od Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece, Turkey...
    The Epirotes are population of Albanian race and they stil speak an albanian dialect in their homes...
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2016230_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2015095_n.jpg

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7286576_n.jpg

    http://www.google.com/#q=epirotes+we...w=1024&bih=602

    Prevesa, a town on the coast of Albania
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2016230_n.jpg


    The Encyclopædia britannica- a dictionary of arts, sciences ... Volume 1 Pg. 483
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6741347_n.jpg


    Pott deem it clear that the Albanian language is the true representative of the ancient Illyrian. The Epirots and Illyrians were neighbor and kindred tribes, speaking different dialects of the same language.
    p.169
    The races of European Turkey
    Edson Lyman Clark
    Dodd, Mead & co., 1878

    Three shkypetar states Illyria, Epirus and Macedonia
    Wadham Peacock - Albania, the foundling state of Europe
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3466726_n.jpg
    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...7_579843_n.jpg

    +
    The Home and foreign review, Volume 4
    Williams and Norgate, 1864
    Pelasgian and Illyrian race. Are they different races? We think not.
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...58937000_n.jpg

    + Universal geography: Tosk and Geg, no doubt originating from the Pelasgians, the social situation of which three thousand years of unchanged

    + Europe, Stanford's compendium of geogr. and travel
    Frederick William Rudler, George Goudie Chisholm
    Andrew Crombie Ramsay (sir)
    London, Edward Standford, 55, Charing Cross, S.W, 1885

    Thracian, Illyrians, Moedians, Macedonians, Epirots, - in a word, all the old inhabitants of the Balkan Peninsula... are now represented by the Albanians alone... Albanian language it seems to stand somewhat in the same relation to Greek that Etruscan does to Latin. Analogies have even been pointed out between Albanian and Etruscan...
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...92396591_n.jpg
    + about etruscans: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...stanella/page7
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9&l=0deac217ab

    Dorians came from north Illyria, today geg albanains are the north-west illyrians, and today tosk albanians are the south-east illyrians, or pelasgians. That's why ancient greek language, is more closest whith geg albanian (dorians, who fight whith tosk albanians or the civil wars between illyrian or pelasgian tribes. Troyan war was one of them), than whith tosk albanian language.

    + Elgin Marble Argument in a New Light, by MICHAEL KIMMELMAN - Published: June 23, 2009
    “We used to speak Albanian and call ourselves Romans, but then Winckelmann, Goethe, Victor Hugo, Delacroix, they all told us, ‘No, you are Hellenes, direct descendants of Plato and Socrates,’ and that did it. If a small, poor nation has such a burden put on its shoulders, it will never recover.”
    http://macedoniantruth.org/wp-conten...gin-Marble.png

    + The races of European Turkey
    Edson Lyman Clark
    Dodd, Mead & co., 1878
    "Pott deem it clear that the Albanian language is the true representative of the ancient Illyrian. The Epirots and Illyrians were neighbor and kindred tribes, speaking different dialects of the same language." p.169

    Bulletin de l'Institut égyptien
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2768199_n.jpg
    Page 45
    It will be easier to confirm our opinion on the origin of Albanian Pelasgian, since this language is kept constant in his greatest traits over the centuries until today, according to historical facts.
    As already predicted the German scientist Muller, Albanian will give us the key to the solution of several problems related to linguistic and ethnographic literature Greco-Latin.
    Appointed Pelaka Skype or by Albanians living in Epirus, Albania, Macedonia and Italy, Arber by Albanians in Greece, this dialect is formed from a few thousand words and monosyllables bisyllabic, roots dry and arid without prefixes or suffixes some exceptions.
    Excluding neopelasgian words, Latin or Greek, Turkish, Slavic or other, the skeleton appears in its nakedness idiom hard, almost eolodorien or wind, approaching all-in-fact of dialects in the epigrams etched old, or sung by the rhapsodies and Aedes oldest Greek.

    Page 49
    Rhapsodies in Homer, despite all the corrections implied by the Athenians, we find many words in use among the Homeric Albanians, which argues for the antiquity of the Albanians.

    Page 57
    The Albanians finally mourn their dead in the Homeric way women (date, the Albanian-oAoXu xXatmoi;, oXoXi5Ço>), repeating the words izi, oïzi = black, unhappy.
    Homer used this word once oizôc Curiously, the word zi, Zia returned to each moment in the archaic inscription found on Lemnos, cited by the Honourable Dr. Apostolides.
    This word means in Albanian sepulchral still mourning and phrase na zia erd wind that we came into mourning.
    What makes some scientists argue that the language of the inscription resembles Albanian, this relic of Pelasgian, especially as the island of Lemnos was home exclusively to the Pelasgians until the time of Miltiades, who occupied
    Conclusion:
    The inclusion of the island of Lemnos has been writen in language Pelasgian, the Pelasgians were not completely absorbed and they are back with their descendants, shqiptar or Albanians, as well as history and linguistic prove.

    + Catholic world, Volume 113
    Paulist Fathers, Making of America Project
    Paulist Fathers, 1921
    The Pelasgians occupied the Balkan Peninsula, and were divided into several tribes. Those forming the Kingdom of Illyria gave much trouble to the Romans, but were finally subdued.
    […]
    Until recently, it was thought that the Macedonians and Epirots were two tribes of Greek people, but now is the belief of scholars that neither of this was Greeks, but the forefathers of Albanians.
    p.90

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...14839211_n.jpg

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4313284_n.jpg

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6156911_n.jpg

    + Dodona-Illyrians
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...6_771042_n.jpg

    + Early Sparta (Edition reprint, illustrated), George Leonard Huxley - Irish University Press, 1970
    "Pelasgian Zeus of Dodona was also called Pelastian, ie Philistine (vl ad Iliad 16.233). The Pelasgian wall at Athens (Hekataios FGrHist 1 F 127) was also named Pelastikon (Hesych. sv IleXcumKov). These are variant forms of the Illyrian place name Palaiste, a possible starting-point of the Philistine migration."
    On the equation of Pelasgian and Philistine: J. Berard, Studies Presented to David Moore Robinson I (St Louis 1951) 148

    + Ridpath's history of the world (1897)
    Ridpath, John Clark, 1840-1900 Volume: 2
    New York, Merrill & Baker
    We are able to trace with tolerable certainty the long series of historical transformations by which the ancient Epirotes, Illyrians, and Macedonians, were reborn during the Middle Ages into the modern Albanian race.
    [...]
    Now it was, however, that the Illyrians and men of Epirus constituted a breakwater against the floods. For a long time they maintained a defensive attitude against the Teutonic and Slavonic races on the north and west. At length the Mohammedans came in from the East, and the people whom we may now call Albanians had to face about and defend themselves against Islam. The Turks made little headway against this resolute enemy. A popular leader appeared in the celebrated George Castriota, whom the Turks called Scanderbeg. Time and again Mohammed II, after his conquest of Constantinople, set his armies against the Albanians, only to suffer defeat at their hands.
    [...]

    This is to say that the modern Greeks and the Albanians are at the end of the twigs of the first branch of the Aryan tree which we have been considering.
    [...]
    Thus we have presented for our consideration the modern Greek and Albanian races as the repre sentatives of the first division of the old Aryan family of mankind.

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._7574306_n.jpg

    + The genesis of the earth and of man, a critical examination of passages in ... By Edward William Lane, Reginald Stuart Poole
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._5254948_n.jpg

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2645436_n.jpg

    + Epir
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._2455006_n.jpg

    + https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3547423_n.jpg

    + Epir: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._6213782_n.jpg


    + The Cradle of Pelasgian and Albanian people
    http://www.albpelasgian.com/epir-the...an-people.html

    + http://www.zeriyt.com/epir-a%EF%BF%B...-t62942.0.html

    + http://www.topix.com/forum/world/alb...5HDVTAOF0B/p10

    + http://www.thelosttruth.altervista.o...n_english.html

    + Epirus, its Illyrian affiliation
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=5884

    + Epirus Land of Illyrian tribes
    http://www.albanian.com/v4/showthread.php?t=13199

    + Thracians and Macedonians
    http://www.albanian.com/v4/showthrea...t=15097&page=2


    DNA:
    "HLA Class I Polymorphism in the Albanian Population" Z. Grubi}1, V. Kerhin-Brklja~i}1, E. ^e~uk-Jeli~i}1, S. Kuci2 and A. Ka{telan1 1 National Referral Organ Transplantation and Tissue Typing Center, University Hospital Center Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia 2 Faculty of Medicine Prishtina, Prishtina, Kosovo

    Link: http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=1
    Link: http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/15462 ne file PDF
    Link of the central portal of Croatian scientific journals: http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=...ak_jezik=15462

    2) Studim tjeter: "High-Resolution Phylogenetic Analysis of Southeastern Europe Traces Major Episodes of Paternal Gene Flow Among Slavic Populations"when:"Almost 93% of SEE E3b1 chromosomes are classified into ALPHA cluster. In Europe, the highest E3b1a variance is among Apulians, Greeks, and Macedonians, and the highest frequency of the cluster is among Albanians, Macedonians,and Greeks (table 1)." If you make a total % of albanians of albania and albanians of kosovo all Albanians have the max Erb1-a freq. After them are the aromenians (latinized balkan substract). And then after the greeks and apulians. http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/re...22/10/1964.pdf

    Another study: Cruciani concluded that the distribution of the E3b1-alpha cluster in Europe indicates a Neolithic or post-Neolithic expansion out of the Balkans into Europe that spread as far west as the Iberian peninsula, and southeast to Turkey. STR diversity analysis gives an estimate of about 8 thousand years ago for that expansion

    Another study: Semino: It's interesting to note that another recent study concluded that a J sub-group, J2e1 (J-M102), also expanded into Europe from the Balkans during the Neolithic period. Most likely due to genetic drift, Kosovar Albanians harbor a J2e frequency peak whereas variance maximum declines from the southeastern edge of the studied region

    Here you have an explanation about E3b1a (from alfa claster):
    Link: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....g/YCC_E3b.html

    About J2e:
    http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache...n&ct=clnk&cd=3

    According to Semino: The footprint of J2e1 (M102) on the European map indicates some sort of connection between the southern Balkans and north-central Italy. One possible explanation is that J2e1 may have dispersed into Europe from the Balkans.Some of the highest frequencies that Semino et al saw for J2e1 were Albania (14.3% of total population), north-central Italy (9.6%), Greece (6.5%) Croatia etc Semino et al estimated the date of the M102 mutation at about 8000 years ago."

    First of all Albanian and kosovars are the same peoples. The max frequencies of J2e are among Albanians, the some for E3b1. This 2 Haplogroupe are belived to exist there before the Roman arivals.(J2e% + E3b1a% = 16 + 45 = 61%) All this 2 haplogroup have max freq in albanians and this is a sign of distinction from slavs. In 2000 BC there have been different migration in to balkan no one can say there have ben only one haplogroup.

    3) Another study: “Maternal and paternal lineages in Albania and the genetic structure of Indo-European populations”
    Link: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...f/5200443a.pdf

    4) Another study from Cavalli-Sforza: The Albanians show considerable genetic distances with all the populations; however, 14 pair of comparisons between the Albanians and the European populations show a high level of identity. (This is for all Albanians not kosovars only) This is a Correlation function not the sum of the Haplogroupe. And by this function that we conclude that Albanians & Kosovars have one of the strongest Dna identity in Balkans. By a correlation of 14 values. It is not the some for greeks (Greeks have a SE identity but not a greek one)

    5) Another study, called “Survey of anthropological features of the Illyrians": The purpose of this paper is to bring to evidence the physical traits of the ancient inhabitants of Albania, the Illyrians, through an anthropological study of 93 human skeletons of different periods. Based on the available typological data the author comes to the conclusion that the Illyrians of the Albanian territory constituted an Adriatic-Mediterranean population with Nordic and Alpine minorities. The results of this study throw light on certain historical phenomena, which are linked with the origin and formation of the Illyrians"
    This survey have shown that Albanians of today are the direct descendents of Illirian-Thraco race!
    Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3...ubmed_RVDocSum

    This study is in only 6 universities, where 2 of these universities are located in Germany:
    1-Charite - Universitaetsmedizin Berlin, Medizinische Bibliothek, Germany
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

    2-Universitaets- und Landesbibliothek Duesseldorf, Germany
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

    3-Biblioteche Universitarie e dell' Area di Bologna , ITALI
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

    4-Harvard University Library ne SHBA
    http://sfx.hul.harvard.edu/sfx_local..._char_set=utf8

    5- University of Calgary Library, Canada
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

    6- University of Vermont Dana Medical Library ne SHBA
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects...de=tu&JrId=680

    6) Another study: “Haplogroup E3b1a2 as a Possible Indicator of Settlement in Roman Britain by Soldiers of Balkan Origin" Steven C. Bird .
    Steve Bird for albanians:the genetic evidence would seem to support a much greater Thracian presence, in line with the rest of the Balkan peninsula, but at a higher percentage. In a spirit of compromise, they are sometimes also described as "Thraco-Illyrians," a blending of the two "barbarian" tribal groups north of the Greeks.
    Link: http://www.jogg.info/32/bird.pdf

    7) Another study that have shown the ancient origin of the Albanians, called:
    "Paleo-mtDNA analysis and population genetic aspects of old
    Thracian populations from South-East of Romania"
    Link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/326027/Pal...ast-of-Romania

    "As we can notice in the latter alignment, the Thracian individuals have shown informative point mutations in 7 np, the Romanian, Greek and Alban individuals in 8 np, the Italian individuals in 7 np and the Bulgarian individuals in only 5 np out of the 12 most informative nucleotide positions presented above.
    As concerns the frequency of point mutations in the 12 nucleotide positions we have realized that the Italian individuals show the highest mutation frequency with 12.5 %, followed by the Thracian individuals with 8.3 %, the Alban individuals with 7.5 %, the Romanian and Greek individuals with 6.25 % and the Bulgarian individuals with only 4.6 %.
    Computing the frequency of common point mutations of the present-day European population with the Thracian population has resulted that the Italian (7.9 %), the Alban (6.3 %) and the Greek (5.8 %) have shown a bias of closer genetic kinship with the Thracian individuals than the Romanian and Bulgarian individuals (only 4.2%)."

    + genetic info: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7&l=53a0cd559a
    Albanian people belong to the older Mediterraneans according to linguistic and genetic parameters; they would have establish in the Balkans before Greeks and Slavs...
    Greeks have been shown by both genetic and historical data that do not belong to the ancient genetic pool.They are relative new-comers because the Indoeuropean (pre-Mycaenian) Greeks came to the Balkanic Peninsula by 2.000 BC paid tribute to Minoans, and destroy their empire by 1.450 BC; they absorbed Minoan culture and writing system and built their own Aegean Sea empire (Arnaiz-Villena et al 1999a). Greeks remain as outliers in all our HLA genetic analyses (Table 6 and unpublished)...

    1.Albanians have a Illyro-Thracian ancestry. I even think that TOSK dialekt is a thraco-etruskan language. The Italians have a greater percentage of Thracian blood because latino-albano-etruscans are the descendents of Trojans who fled from destroyed land Phrygo-Thracians(after troyan war).

    2.But I dont want to choice to discredit the greeks from their race. Usually this method works as boumerang in this area were the race is the same (even that we have to mention here the later arrivals, like slavs) but cultures are different. And Albanians are the biggest losers in these areas, until the year 1999 (when the World decided to prevent the total disappearance of this ancient culture, in the name of humanism, wile the whole World was watching this time, thanks to mass medias this time, who makes the difference whith ancient times). So, don't make me to deal whith the race, becacause I'm trying to discredit their propaganda, their chauvinism, and their atrocities against Albanians, NOT their race.

    - Albanians are not like slavo-macedonians to offend the other ethnic groups just for chauvinistic pourpouses. We have nothing against the greeks, they are our neigbours and if we want to be respected we must show some dignity not to fall in the same level of slavo-macedonians. The real enemies stand behind what is called "greek nation". These people mostly living in mount Athos and in some government buildings are the real people who need a DNA test. I bet the result would be: blood from another solar-system.

    + http://soul-of-the-pillar.blogspot.c...-alphabet.html

    + http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/mand001sch...01_01_0289.php

    + http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showthr...midst-of-Asia&

    + Researches in Greece:
    Romaico-Arvanetic vocabulary
    Arvanites=Albanian-Skipetar
    http://www.macedoniantruth.org/wp-co...greece-296.png

    + Dictonary Latino Epiroticum, per R.D. Franciscus Blanchus https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...3_150528_n.jpg

    Info + Alban/Albon/Albanian/Arberian/Arban/Arbon/Arbanians/Arvanites/Arnauts... when Illyrian and Thracian tribes intermarried so much around the albani tribe in todays center of Albania, from permanent withdrawal of that piece of Illyrian/Thracian (pelasgians) tribes who still survive the assimilation, after their collection around Balkan mountains, they change their name in "the sons of the eagle"-Shkypetar/Skipetar/Shqiptar, that represent or summarized in the best way their ancient identity
    (and thousands of other books, from the ancient writers, to today...)

    P.S: Anyone who want to reply me about these questions, and he don't want to proceed spaming here, he have to quote all my sentences one by one (for the sake of the rules of communiaction) because I'm doing the same from the 2 page here, when some pseudo nationlists (even racists) started to deviate the topic, whith their personal complexes about the autochthony of albanians. Otherwise, if you don't have what to say about these questions, start to write about the topic or leave at all.

    So, can we proceed to discuss the topic, and not for complexes or each defendant here about the basic components of history in general, who can not differ the Colonizers from Indigenous and all their arguments came only from the period of history, when that area was conquered or colonized and all their occupation maps, replaced toponyms, atrocities or these kind of materials, are shown here like a arguments against the occupied people there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    what book and what edition you have?

    the original word as used by both Attaleiates and Anna komneni is Αρβανιτες, and are recogned as the Sicilian Guard in the Army of Maniakis

    according these books Arbanites came from Sicily by Maniakis at his revolt to gain the Throne,

    the penguin 1969 and the Late Barbara Hill (author) indeed use the word Albani but is translation,

    search the original text in Greek-Byzantine of Kurtz 1907 of the epos Αλεξιας (Alexiad)

    All edition after 1928 use the term Albanoi only the original and the old edition of 1907 use the word Αρβανιτεc

    sorry but when you read something read the original.


    4.8.4 Ὁ δὲ βασιλεὺς τοὺς ἑλιγ μοὺς τῶν παρακειμένων ὀρῶν καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν δύσβατον ἀτραπὸν ἐν δυσὶ νυχθημέροις διεξελθὼν καταλαμβάνει τὴν Ἀχρίδα. Ἐν δὲ τῷ μεταξὺ τὸν Χαρζάνην διελθὼν καὶ μικρὸν περὶ τὴν καλουμένην Βαβαγορὰν ἐγκαρτερήσας (τέμπος δ' αὕτη δύσβατόν ἐστι), μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς ἥττης μήθ' ὑπὸ τῶν ἄλλων τοῦ μόθου κακῶν τὸν νοῦν συγχυθεὶς μήθ' ὑπὸ τῆς κατὰ τὸ μέτωπον τοῦ τραύματος ὀδύνης ὑποχα λάσας, κἂν τὰ ἐντὸς ὑπὸ τῆς λύπης τῶν ἐν τῇ μάχῃ πε πτωκότων καὶ μᾶλλον τῶν γενναίως ἀγωνισαμένων ἀνδρῶν ἐξεφλέγετο. Ἀλλ' ὅμως τῆς πόλεως ὅλος ἦν Δυρραχίου καὶ ταύτης ἐμέμνητο ἀχθόμενος ὅτι ἄτερ ἡγεμόνος κατα λέλειπτο τοῦ Παλαιολόγου διὰ τὴν ὀξεῖαν συμβολὴν τοῦ πολέμου μὴ δυνηθέντος ἐπαναστρέψαι. Καὶ ὡς ἐνὸν τοὺς κατ' αὐτὴν ἠσφαλίσατο καὶ τὴν τῆς ἀκροπόλεως φρουρὰν τοῖς ἐκκρίτοις Βενετίκοις τῶν ἐκεῖσε ἀποίκων ἀνέθετο, τὴν δέ γε ἐπίλοιπον πᾶσαν πόλιν τῷ ἐξ Ἀρβάνων ὁρμω μένῳ Κομισκόρτῃ τὰ συνοίσοντα, διὰ γραμμάτων ὑποθέμενος.

    Original text by Kurtz edition. 1907

    in Book six we read a battle of Robert with Γεωργιος in Αυλωνα Κορυφω Επιδαμνον και Δυρραχιον Μοσυνουπολις
    the ones you change to Vlore Korce Durress Voskopolje Like the turks did
    and the adventures of Robert in minor Asia
    there is not a mention in book six, only city names which i gave


    now you may reconsider your thesis,
    and ask for sorry cause your Nationalism blinds you,


    again you are wrong if you read Arabantinos Thomopoulos A.Kolla and the others,
    they are fairy tellers

    Arbanon and arbanites is the form until about 1400-1500 after 14-1500 we find 1rst time the word Albanoi again as albanites
    the reform from arb to Alb although is yet unknown why,
    probably an inner name, or more good sound or pronounce,
    or by the Hunyades and Al from ALBA Lullia, or when got in touch with Turks, or by th Anju
    Cause at Progoni time the official name was Arberia

    Besides the latin from was Urbanites from Urban or Urbanon
    possible difference from Villachi who lived in villas

    Next time you provoke me or insult me plz have the correct text and a translation.

    It is another story to be proud of what you are, and another story to be proud by something that you are not, and try to convice your self with fake History

    except if ironically Anna komnene knew English and wrote original in English
    or your Translator was Zeus10


    Guys again plz stop reading History by Zeus10
    To be honest I don't see where this discussion could possibly lead us. You base your entire way of reasoning on the supposedly granted fact that everyone on the entire planet is illiterate, and cannot read a few lines of the Alexiad. And your irrational assumption that Arvanites are not Albanians simply makes it clear to me that I cannot enter your specter of reason therefore we can never have a civilized discussion. Consider this ended and do not sweat yourself on making pseudo-sarcastic comments.

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    that is the difference part of Albanians is Arbanites,
    But Arbanites are not ALbanians,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    that is the difference part of Albanians is Arbanites,
    But Arbanites are not ALbanians,
    Lets see if I got this right, you are saying that "Arvanites" are not albanian is that it? If so then you are heavily mistaken. It is a know FACT that the "Arvanit" language is an Albanian Dialect (Which newely was made an own dialect of albanian in the same line as Geg, Tosk and Arbresh). I'll see if I can find the link for this.

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    also on topic, fustanella is albanian : as the -greeks- themselves are saying here : youtube.com/watch?v=p98D7Fql1Dk (Greek tv channel). And the Greek of today need to get used to the fact that albanians fought with the greeks in WW2, like it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devils Advocate View Post
    also on topic, fustanella is albanian : as the -greeks- themselves are saying here : youtube.com/watch?v=p98D7Fql1Dk (Greek tv channel). And the Greek of today need to get used to the fact that albanians fought with the greeks in WW2, like it or not.
    if you read correct all the posts then youu might understand Kontea and fustanella

    about who fought who is another story,
    just read about Xilia and SSS (ssscanderberg)
    i know that many helped the Greek army when the war with Italy happened but I also know that 10 000 Albanians join the Italian Forces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    if you read correct all the posts then youu might understand Kontea and fustanella

    about who fought who is another story,
    just read about Xilia and SSS (ssscanderberg)
    i know that many helped the Greek army when the war with Italy happened but I also know that 10 000 Albanians join the Italian Forces.
    My bad on the fustanella and kontea part, I'll look closer into it.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Albanien People is not Illyrien !!! Prof.Dr.Kaplan Resuli

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    Albanien People is not Illyrien !!! John Wilkes ( journalist, politiker,autor )

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Albanien People is not Illyrien !!! DNK ist fakt

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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Albanien People is from Transilvania.

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    Albanien language is SATEM !!!
    Illyrian language is KENTUM !!!

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    Albanian from 1912 j.

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    Albanian history is propaganda !!!

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    Albanian People is not Balkan people !!!

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    Skenderbeg is not Albaner !!!

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    Epirus people is not Albaner people !!!

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    The Albanian racism towards the neighbours is based on historical falsifications
    Stanford University ^ | 02/25/2003 | Vitomir Dolinski
    Posted on Dienstag, 20. April 2004 0915 by Nennsy
    Vitomir Dolinski: An interview with the persecuted albanian academic prof. Dr. Kaplan Resuli


    The Albanian racism towards the neighbours is based on historical falsifications
    VD: - You are regarded as a unique, albanian Mandela, but also as a political prisoner-record holder on the Balkan. For the insufficiently informed, at the beginning, tell us briefly about this?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - In former Yugoslavia I was sentenced two years strict imprisonment, allegedly for propaganda against the socialism and the “brotherhood and unity”. After I served the punishment to the last day in the jail Idrizovo, wishing to escape to the Soviet Union I got stuck in Albania with which the USSR exactly those days severed its diplomatic relations. After the ten-year internment I was arrested by the albanian authorities and sentenced 43 years of a most monstrous imprisonment, again allegedly for antigovernment propaganda, in possession of some revolver without license, preparing to escape and for insulting the investigator. Thus, in total I am sentenced 45 years, of which 37 for antigovernment propaganda, with which I think that I am the most heavily sentenced political prisoner on the Balkan and maybe I am a unique world record holder. Actually, if it wasn’t for the (political) changes in Albania I would probably have still been in jail today. To this sentence needs to be added the severed marriage in Yugoslavia, in which fortunately I didn’t have any children and also the second marriage, in Albania, in which I had two children. During the whole time of my incarceration, not only that I wasn’t allowed to see my children, but I didn’t even know if they were alive. No one was allowed to visit me, or to give me a piece of bread. Not even the other prisoners. Those who did that were punished and the poet Gani Shkudra, who came to see me, not only that they didn’t allow him to see me, but in front of the jail, on the spot, they arrested him and sentenced him with 10 years imprisonment, allegedly for political propaganda. The only transgression attributed to him in the accusation is recorded as: “he had gone to the jail Burel to see the public enemy Kaplan Resuli and brought him bread”. While I was languishing in the infamous jail Burel, ten times they skinned me alive, literally, wanting from me to abandon my yugoslavian (montenegrin) citizenship, the yugoslavian (montenegrin) nationality, my ideals, even my children. They were forcing me to declare myself an Albanian, not only as citizen, but in nationality (ethnicity). Several times they attempted to liquidate me, even after I was released from jail, three times they have attempted to assassinate me – twice in Tirana and once in Geneva. The Albanians themselves, not only my friends, but even the others who were antagonistic towards me, while I was in my jail cells, pronounced me an albanian Mandela. Even my most open adversary, the albanian writer Ismail Kadare, those days, the beginning of the nineties, in his attempts to befriend the european circles and Amnesty International who were involved in my freeing, did not shirk from naming me a martyr and a hero of Albania.

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    VD: - Before we turn towards that period and to Your specific relationship with the most famous, but undoubtedly the most controversial person of the albanian academy, as well, Ismail Kadare, lets return to the most important phases of your creative activities which led to Your wider literary and scientific affirmation?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - In Dubrovnik in 1952 I published the poem “Bojana” in which I openly named Yugoslavia and Albania, Golgotha, in which the people struggle and suffer. I was instantly called on the phone by my “countryman” Milovan Gjilas who then threatened me that he will squeeze my head so hard that instead of singing I would begin to wail. And it turned out thus. I hear in Yugoslavia he is regarded as the No.1 dissident. If truly there is no other person, then I know that I was that at least a little bit before him.
    VD: - Your first jail sentence, unfortunately, occurred to You in Macedonia, where for some time in that period You worked as an educator?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Yes, I was a tutor in Tetovo when they arrested me. As it can be seen from the charges, in Macedonia I had done nothing wrong. I was accused that, allegedly, I had been involved in an antigovernment propaganda in Montenegro. And because I was and am a montenegrin citizen, the court proceedings should have been there, in my birth town of Ulcinj. The reason for my prosecution in Tetovo was that there I didn’t have any relatives and UDBa (yugoslavian state security), which knew that I am absolutely innocent, was afraid that my prosecution among my Ulcinj people could provoke some unwanted problems. For that reason it ordered my prosecution in Tetovo, behind closed doors. Although I am not from Tetovo, the people of this town, especially my students knew me well, as a professor and as a writer. Along the streets of the town from the court to the jail I was greeted with an open support from many of them and most likely for many of them it will be interesting to know that the key UDBa witness against me was then their collaborator, now allegedly a big fighter for the albanian cause, Adem Demaçi. The state prosecutor in his concluding talk, accusing me as “agens spiritus” of the yugoslavian youth against the regime and seeking to be charged as such, stated that I had been and hoped that I will continue to be in future, as well, a “constructive citizen” of Yugoslavia. It is interesting that Fatos Nano (albanian socialist premier) after my release from jail, here in Geneva described me as a “constructive citizen” of Albania, asking me to return there, in Tirana.

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    VD: - Your first more significant life’s disappointment, You said, implanted in You the idea to leave for the Soviet Union, but fate wanted again to play with you in a brutal fashion and “retain” You many years in the albanian jail Burel?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - True, that was some time after my completion of the jail sentence in Idrizovo. Burel was not a jail, but a place of horror. While in Idrizovo they would say “You are not here for us to fatten you up, but to count your bones” in Burel it was: “This place is called Burel, where one can get in, but can not get out”.
    VD: - The numerous works which You wrote here most likely helped You to strengthen your spirit and, eventually, to survive. Actually, exactly here is created your most famous work, the novel “Treason”?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - From approximately 200,000 pages written during those thirty years, half of them I succeeded in transferring out of jail and to have them here, in Geneva. The other part was taken from me by the authorities and I have no idea what has happened with them. The novel “Treason”, otherwise, the Albanians themselves proclaimed it as a masterpiece of the albanian literature. One of the most eminent albanian critics, Prof. Tajar Zavaljani, even described it as the only worthy work published in Albania after World War II. That type of reception for the novel in Albania and amongst the albanian diaspora perturbed Enver Hoxha (Hodzha) who was attempting to establish his likeminded relative Ismail Kadare as the greatest albanian literary. That is why all of a sudden they “discovered” that I had not written the novel, attempting even to physically eliminate me, but it had been the work of Adem Demaçi (Demaky), for whom they were hoping that, in the meantime, he would perish in the yugoslavian jails. Since Demaçi got out of jail alive and I also survived, now, via the printed media, they have widened a campaign against me, unseen in the history of mankind, which, imagine, the novel had been written for me by UDBa, in order to establish myself with it in Albania and thus usurp the government from Enver.

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    V.D. - Thus far twice, in similar context, You mentioned Kadare and I would like to remind You of 1991 when Amnesty International, as well, engages in the requests for Your release from jail and, absurdly, the one who attempted to block it was none other, but Kadare. How, actually, could that be explained?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Kadare is catapulted in the West by Ramiz Alija and the widow of Enver Hoxha, with a well planned mission. At that time it was only one of his missions – to diminish my credibility amongst the albanian public and the diaspora, fearing that I may unmask them, spoiling their future plans. For that reason, not only in private, as was the case with Adem Demaçi, but also publicly, at meetings and via the printed media he barked against me and would accuse me, as they were instructing him from Tirana. Kadare and Demaçi are the main conspirators in of the most monstrous demonstrations in the history of mankind, when they strirred the albanian professors and students at Prishtina university to demonstrate in February 1991 against my release from jail.
    VD: - On the subject “Kadare” You have up till now written much, to which special attention in the albanian public, but also in the european community have attracted Your books “The true face of Ismail Kadare” and “The lies do not alter the truth”. When, actually, began Your rivalry and what is, as You have mentioned, his well planned mission?

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    Dr. Kaplan Resuli: - In these books, actually, with documents and with facts, but also with his own self confessions, I have proven that he is catapulted in the West as an agent of Sigurimi (albanian state security), because he was that from always. As a principal ideolog of Enver, with secret interpretations on our works he was “passing judgment” for our maltreatments, internments and arrests. Actually, this was publicly stated, on Albanian Radio-Television in 1996 by the former head of Sigurimi, Zylfiar Ramizi, verifying that Kadare was in their service under the pseudonym General. He was a provocateur trained by Sigurimi to accuse anyone who, according to him, stood in his way, as he did that with me. And why? Because academic professor Dimitar Suterilji, in his principal paper which he read out at the second Congress of Albanian Writers, placed my name and novel before his. At one plenum of the Union in 1966 I openly criticised him, which enraged him, as he was not used to being criticised. Much later, after my release from jail, a major from Sigurimi involved in my arrest openly declared that, although totally innocent, they had arrested me because they had received a secret 12-page long accusation against me and my activities, exactly from Kadare. In the meantime, he totally put his pen and talent in the service of his benefactor Enver whose political speeches he was transforming into poems and novels. I don’t know if you are aware of the fact that Kadare published a complimentary poem lauding Enver’s “patriotic” dog, which somewhere at the border catches and pulls apart some unfortunate Albanian, only because the poor soul attempted to escape from Enver’s paradise. These are only a few pieces of evidence about the moral profile of the “great” literary and “certain” Nobel prize winner Ismail Kadare, whose main preoccupation today is to poison and deceive the West with the albanian historical falsifications about the alleged famous illiryan-albanian past and culture, which, what absurdity, had suffered multi-centuries harm from the activities of its surrounding barbaric “slavic” peoples.

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    VD: - This is, I think, an opportune moment to begin our discussion for Your third, certainly an important segment, as well, of Your writings – the scientific-research work. You have published numerous works from the sphere of the albanian historiography and linguistics, which brought You significant prestige, scientific titles and also an honorary membership in the Albanian Science Academy. When did actually begin Your scientific interest for the Albanology?
    Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich: - Already in 1995 at the university of Skopje it became clear to me that there will not be peace on the Balkan until the albanian question is clarified. For that reason I switched from the law faculty to the albanological studies and here, contrary to what was being said and written not only by the albanian, but also by our, yugoslavian scholars, contrary to what is being taught not only in the albanian language schools (in Albania, as well as in Macedonia), but also in the schools of “south-slavic” languages, I discovered that not only the Albanians are not autochthonous people, but they are also not related in any way to the Pelasgians or the Illyrians. Understandably, not one of the professors in albanology has said this to me. They still continued with the tale that allegedly Albanians are autochthonous pelasgoillyrian descendants. I discovered that by chance, studying the albanian language, which, all agree, is of the type SATEM. According to that global division of languages, researching the illyrian language I discovered that it is of the type KENTUM. The most elementary logic was saying to me that one SATEM language can not be a direct descendant, not even a kind of derivative of some KENTUM language, without a change of its substrate. Since the albanian language does not have any changes in its substrate, that means that the Albanians can’t be, under any circumstance, genealogical descendants of the Illyrians. Later I discovered this, as well, in the works of the world renown professors and scholars Paul, Hirt, Vaigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Puscariu and many others, who with numerous scholarly arguments, linguistic and historical, have proven that the Albanians not only do not have anything in common with the Illyrians, not only that they are not autochthonous at any place in the Balkan, but they are not even autochthonous in the territories of modern day Albania. Vaigand for example has formulated 12 arguments. To all of those I’ve added another five. Unfortunately, these scientists are not being mentioned in (the study) Albanology, nor in Albania, nor aret they mentioned in Yugoslavia, or in Macedonia, because the albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead of it (the truth), to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin. Via those lies they poison the whole nation. This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations, thus, hooking them on the “fishing line” of some invented, wide ethnic territories, to use them as cannon fodder for the interests of some criminalised leaders and the international Capital. The primary motive that inspired me to oppose the albanian pseudo science about their illyrian origin was the truth, the love for the truth, my special inclination towards it, but second and equally as important motive was the fact that, watching the Albanians being breast-fed with chauvinism and racism, are being encouraged to fight their neighbouring peoples (nations), I was hoping that if the truth is explained to them, they will move away from the tales, legends and myths about their autochthony and illyromania, thus ceasing with their inexcusable and baseless hatred towards their neighbours.

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