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Thread: Fustanella

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    Fustanella



    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Qdr2w1PNnC...fustanella.gif

    We find this cloth in two points of Europe:

    1. Scotland, the only celts who bear it
    2. Balkan, where it was used by whole albanian, then greeks, vlachs etc.

    Where does it come from? Who inventioned this?

    Another similarity between scots and albanians is gajde, a musical instrument.

    http://www.novomilosevo.org.rs/photo/sl_gajde_b.jpg

    Here is scot music with "gajde":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAXn...eature=related

    And here is albanian music with gajde:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGv_LEKgGew

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    Still, another similarity: Scotland was called Alba and sometimes Albania.

    Why these similarities?

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    Some similarities can potentially go back a very long way. For example tartan clothes were found in the 3500 year-old Tarim mummies of north-west China (of Indo-European origin). It is known from Roman accounts that the ancient Celts wore tartan clothes. Nowadays it found only in Scotland and is seen as something intrinsically Scottish. It's not. It was a pan-European and Central Asian phenomenon in the Bronze Age, but only survived in Scotland. Could be the same for the fustanella/kilt. After all Scottish kilts are always made of tartan - there must be a reason, like an ancient origin.

    The Indo-European R1b people supposedly arrived in Albania around 2100 BCE, during the Maliq III culture. This is the period when the Bronze age starts and elite single graves, horses and the whole Indo-European package was introduced. This is late for south-east Europe. The Bronze Age reached Scotland almost exactly at the same period. Both could be offshoots from the Unetice culture from Central Europe. Who knows, perhaps this common source of IE people called themselves "Alba(n)" ?
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    But kilt is not made of tartan among albanians and greeks (in Balkan).

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    Country: Greece



    http://en.wikivisual.com/images/2/21...the_Guard2.jpg

    Here are Greek soldiers dressed with this traditional fustanella-kilt-skirt or however you want to call it, guarding the Greek Parliament. They are not supposed to talk or move (except for the routine where they change shifts, which has to be perfect) during their shift.

    Only the tallest of the soldiers serving each year are selected for this position (strictly 190cm+, usually close to 2m) and they undergo a special training, that many fail.

    Recently a bomb exploded 10m away from them (I think it made international news) but they didn't move at all!

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    Just one warning:

    Albanians was an exonim, which means white people, because the children are borned with white hair. The same tribe was called ocasionally as "Albanoi" or as "Parthini". The second term is clearly albanian word 'Bardh" that means "white", but in the ancient form.

    It is the same name in two languages, Latin and illyrian-albanian.

  7. #7
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    Nice thread Neander. I had no idea about the albanian gajde.
    Last edited by ^ lynx ^; 18-02-10 at 22:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    But kilt is not made of tartan among albanians and greeks (in Balkan).
    Essentially, the tartan has been traditional in the Atlantic Facade for thousands of years. All the ancient Atlantic Celts wore some form of tartan, from Portugal to Central and Western France to Scotland., Some were plaid and others bore various Celtic designs.

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    It is the same name in two languages, Latin and illyrian-albanian.
    But it doesnt explain why Scotland is called Alba. Maybe it si again the same name in two languages, Celtic and Albanian.

    Lynx here is another song with gajde (this time you can see the executor):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y180...eature=related

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    But it doesnt explain why Scotland is called Alba. Maybe it si again the same name in two languages, Celtic and Albanian.
    Lynx here is another song with gajde (this time you can see the executor):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y180...eature=related
    Alba is an insular Celtic word. In Ireland the Gaelic word for Scotland is alban.

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    Information on Atlantic Celtic Kilts.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post

    Another similarity between scots and albanians is gajde, a musical instrument.

    http://www.novomilosevo.org.rs/photo/sl_gajde_b.jpg

    Here is scot music with "gajde":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTAXn...eature=related

    And here is albanian music with gajde:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGv_LEKgGew
    Actually this similarity is found in whole Europe. In Poland it's called "dudy". I just read an article of musical historian that states that this instrument was mentioned since second century bc in Greece then in Rome. It also says that it was used by some Roman Legions as marching music. Actually it could have gotten to Scotland with Roman Legions.
    It was quite popular all over Europe in folk music since middle ages.

    Same with skirts. Trousers as we know them gained popularity only in last few centuries. Before that pants were only used as undergarment and for horse riding. Other than that all peoples in Europe wore some sort of skirts, men and women.

    Somehow all over the Europe people of mountains, the highlanders, are very conservative and traditional, or just mountains insulate them from new trends, well till recent times. Relics of ancient life style in Europe can be found mostly in highlands. It doesn't mean that highlanders in Albania and Scotland are related. It only means that similarities of European, universal, and main trends survived in both cultures.

    As for the name? Could be a coincidence as both peoples are of white race.
    Are their any other lingual similarities? If you can't find other linguistic connections, then Alba and Albania are coincidental, or mistakenly coined by Romans.

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    Also I have read somewhere that England was called Albion. I don't remember the reference.

    Here is a similarity between albanian and irish:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCq3FGPAJTs

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    Also the division in P-Que is present in three languages: Celtic, Italic and Albano-Romanian

    Albanian and Romanian probably are of the same origin, since 2/3 of the romanian substratum are albanian or similar to albanian words. Also there are some facts that Thracians (including dacian tribe) with illyrians were within the same subgroup of peoples.

    So, celtic was divided into Q and P languages, the same is for italic languages.

    But it occur and in albanian and romanian.

    F.ex. albanian "katër" "katra", in romanian "patru"

    Another word is reversed: in latin Columbo, in albanian Pëllumb, and in romanian porumbelul, in this case latin is K, and romanian and albanian are P.

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    Actually this similarity is found in whole Europe.
    I don't think so. Actually "Dudy" must be of celtic origin, because there is e big similarity with scotish bagpipes, but albanian bagpipes together with greek and yougoslavic are very diferent from scotish ones. F.ex. Galitia in Western Ukraine must have been named after the Bastarnae celtic tribe who settled there.
    There is not bagpipe among frances, basque, italian, germans etc.
    Neither they have fustanella, or even if they have it is very diferent from scotish and albanian.

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    The bagpipes of the Atlantic Facade are generally different than found elsewhere. The largest pipes are from Scotland. In places like Brittany, Galicia, Asturias and Central and Northern Portugal there are several types. Some have as many as four "flutes" but there are versions with as few as one.

    Bagpipes are found in many cultures but they may have originated in the Atlantic Facade, perhaps with the Tartessians (possibly the original Celts) of SW Iberia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    Also the division in P-Que is present in three languages: Celtic, Italic and Albano-Romanian

    Albanian and Romanian probably are of the same origin, since 2/3 of the romanian substratum are albanian or similar to albanian words. Also there are some facts that Thracians (including dacian tribe) with illyrians were within the same subgroup of peoples.

    So, celtic was divided into Q and P languages, the same is for italic languages.

    But it occur and in albanian and romanian.

    F.ex. albanian "katër" "katra", in romanian "patru"

    Another word is reversed: in latin Columbo, in albanian Pëllumb, and in romanian porumbelul, in this case latin is K, and romanian and albanian are P.
    Similarities of Albanian and Romanian, might come from common history of Illyrian, Dacian, Thracian as Satem group of languages. Before Dacian got Romanized. Most likely these 3 were closely related.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum

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    Here is a nice short writeup about bagpipes.
    http://www.highlandnet.com/info/misc/pipes.html

    http://www.cometoscotland.com/images...inScotland.pdf
    Lol, interesting, bagpipes were band in Scotland twice!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagpipes
    Looks like it was the most popular instrument in Europe till recent. How it came to Europe is unclear not much history here, nothing about excavation of bagpipes. The oldest depictions and writings are from Greece and Roman Nero times.

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    All above article and this one below show that most likely Romans introduced bagpipes to Scotland. Couldn't find anything saying that Scots new this instrument before.

    "In Italy today, there is a most strange and staggering tradition among players of the Italian Bagpipe (a very small group indeed) that the Celtic tribes in England worshipped the bagpipe! The legend says that Caesar, during the conquest of Britain, in an effort to keep the Roman casualties to a minimum, decided to ambush the Celtic forces and frighten the forces of their mounted troops. He did this by gathering together all of the players of the UTRICULARIS and caused them to lay in concealment, and at the pre-arranged signal, all of the pipers played at once. The Celtic horses bolted, threw their riders and the Roman Army rushed in and annihilated the force. When the Britons understood the cause of their defeat, they immediately considered the bagpipe an instrument of divine nature with magical qualities. For this reason, they were lured by its sound to the point of idolizing and worshipping it to conquer its magic. After some time, the British copied the Roman instrument. This traditional tale was published in M. Gioiellis� �LE ZAMPOGNE DI GIULIO CASARE� in a magazine called �MONDO MOLISE�."

    "Strong evidence seems to indicate that the Irish got the instrument from invading Anglo Norman armies. It is first mentioned in Ireland some fifty years afterwards. Among the Normans, it has the same sort of development as in England. France produced at least seven varieties of bagpipe. In common use for dancing and all festive occasions, and employed at church services and religious ceremonies, it became a fashionable instrument at the courts of both countries by the eleventh century.

    The bagpipe in Scotland is probably as old as that found in England. Its playing must have been noted by those who tried breach Hadrian�s Wall in all their blue finery. It must have worked its way up by the time of the Normans who also had lands in Scotland. Certainly the bellows are to be of continental origin"


    http://www.bagpipehistory.info/rome-ancient-world.shtml

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    As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

    http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/n...o-gallego-Foxo

    Greetings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    I don't think so. Actually "Dudy" must be of celtic origin, because there is e big similarity with scotish bagpipes, but albanian bagpipes together with greek and yougoslavic are very diferent from scotish ones. .
    Actually the Albanian name gajde, points into it's Celtic or roman origin, gaita. Could be vice verse but quite unlikely.

    Name Dudy is purely Slavic. It means to blow air. Also means load sound but that could originate from the instrument name.
    English name bagpipe is quite recent and might mean luck of long or continuous traditions with this instrument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

    http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/n...o-gallego-Foxo

    Greetings.
    Gaitas are also played in the Beiras and the Serra da Estrela regions, but you find many more organized pipe bands in Minho, Douro and Tras-os-Montes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):

    http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/n...o-gallego-Foxo

    Greetings.
    Thanks for the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ^ lynx ^ View Post
    As far as I know, only Northern Portugal use the bagpipe. And they've adopted the galician one recently because its own was almost dissapeared, only the zone of Tras os Montes had conserved their own bagpipe (gaita de fole) which is also typical of Zamora (Castille):
    http://www.farodevigo.es/secciones/n...o-gallego-Foxo
    Greetings.
    Damn, maybe they are related lol. Polish highlander from Galicia.
    Only pants are different, but that's a recent invention.
    http://zdjecia.polska.pl/katalog/gal...hort.htm?sh=10
    Attached Images Attached Images

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