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Thread: Origin of the Libyans

  1. #26
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    The composite of photos in ^Lynx's^ last post gives you a good idea of the difference between Eurasian or autochthonous Berbers and mixed "Berbers". Pretty obvious who is who.

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    But please, from where did the first Berbers come? From France and
    Spain? If they had an origin in southwest-Europe, they were descendants
    of the Aurignac and Cro-Magnon peoples. But from where do the fair
    hair and light eyes come? From the French Cro-Magnons?
    Perhaps the Berbers are a prove the ancient Cro-Magnons used to have
    fair eyes and light eyes! Light eyes and fair hair have a West-European
    origin.

    Erik

  3. #28
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    Perhaps the Berbers are a prove the ancient Cro-Magnons used to have
    fair eyes and light eyes! Light eyes and fair hair have a West-European
    origin.
    Also, Berbers are prove that haplogroup E was earlier in Europe.

    I have a scenario:

    Haplogoup DE was created somewhere in Eurasia, perhaps in Central Asia.

    Then Haplogroup D was created there, and spread to the whole of China and japan.

    Then Haplogroup E was bornt, and after that, his subclades E1 and E2.

    E1 enters in Europe, and E2 go to Africa.

    What do you think?

    P.S. Maciamo, can you divide the posts which are about berbers, to create e new thread about only berbers, and not to mix with libians.

  4. #29
    ^ lynx ^
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    Haganus the article I posted in the previous page states that original berbers have eurasian origins. Their origin is not in South-west Europe.

    [...] Essentially, the DNA studies of Berbers observe that they are mostly similar to Eurasians, and that they appear to have arrived in North Africa about 30,000 years ago plus (Mechta Afaloupeople), with a second wave of colonisation in the neolithic from the Near East confirmed by the cranio facial measurements (Loring Brace) of neolithic North Africans. Then then migrated South during the saharan wetphase about 12,000 years ago, with Eurasian Y chromosome now making up 40% of Cameroon’s Y chromosomes as a result (although less in other areas).

    All these prehistoric NorthAfricans are described as mostly similar to other Mediterranean Caucasian populations, with a lesser similarity to Nubians from the Wadi Halfa area. There’s a simplified explanation of ancient North African population movements here.
    I'll post this image to help trasnmitter to understand that E-M81 is not common in ALL North-Africa.



    E-M78 (somalid) is present in almost all Europe, reaching peaks in Greece and Italy while in Iberia is just present in the "west wing" of the Peninsula.



    The most typical subclade of E in Iberia is the E-M81 (the berber marker).



    You can also see a pocket in the french Bretagne and its near areas. And of course the cantabrian pocket around the Pasiegos Valley (near to the basque country). The Pasiegos Valley is a very isolated region into Cantabria, pasiego people have a very charasteristic culture, traditions and language. The E pocket in there is believed to come from the Neolithic.

  5. #30
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    so greeks and italians have a east african somalid ancestor and spain and portugese have a berberid north african ancestor! also dont forget j2 and j1 also t etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by maltesekid View Post
    so greeks and italians have a east african somalid ancestor and spain and portugese have a berberid north african ancestor! also dont forget j2 and j1 also t etc
    j2 / j1 has nothing to do with E1b1b, plus the levels of J1/J2 in Iberia are VERY low. Well, also E is low, about 5% in all Iberia. Spain and Portugal are not typical meditarrenean countries.

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    Origin of the Libyans

    Modern DNA-research does already give a pretty clear picture. Simply observing the existing phenotypes on photographs or in the living shows what racial admixtures have taken place or are in the process presently. But, in my opinion, one has to start at the beginning: African origin of mankind refers to geographic, not to racial origin. Black African humanity has never changed colour or skeletal structures under a non-African sky. The same goes for rosy-white skin. Neither of the two will change other than through racial mixture. I tend to believe that all colours and skeletal structures go back to the beginning of mankind and have emerged out of a big genetic pool. Mutations, combination, and re-combination played their role. Afro-centric theories, Out-of-Africa, African Eve can easily be used to serve agendas that have nothing to do with Physical Anthropology.
    White skin for instance exists under the fur of all types of animals in any climatic zone of the world. As far as the human side goes, changes happen by mixture, exemplified by Ainu, Berbers, and recently some British, or French people, to name only a few. Pure white skin has been proven to exist in China, Japan, North Africa, Polynesia, and Europe. Thanks to DNA we now know a lot better who's who.

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