Bosnians/ ethnic groups there

[Elias2]

My impression is from reading the threads here that you fall under the category of a national extremist. You seem always to be blind to any information anyone gives that does not fall in your own national romantic identity.

First off All national identities are artificial before 1800 the common people didn’t see them selves as being any thing ells then being owned by nobles and kings. And borders are just as artificial and were formed by power struggles and not according to cultural groups. To the common man it didn’t mean anything, land and people changed hands all the time, they just got a new owner. Only thing they cared about is that the new owner would not treat them to bad.

And your Greece is also a modern construction. Yes even your precious Greece. From 1823 there has gone a lot of work in making the Modern Greek identity. Even though you like to believe its all Hellenic and you guys are pure and direct descendants of the ancient Greeks. But, anyone with basic knowledge of history does not believe this. The Modern Greek state was formed just like FYROM is forming today. It is not my impression that anyone sees Modern Greek nation as having much to do with ancient Greece.

All nations have myths and legends. Most civilized nations se them as myths and legends and don’t believe in them as historic fact. Problem with you my Balkan brothers and sisters is that you guys believe in them as if they are imperial proven facts.

In Denmark: The myth about how Danish flag came to the Danish people. That it fell from the sky to a king on a campaign in the Baltic area. All know this but no one believes it. Because when we get taught history the first thing we learn is the difference from myth, legends and historical facts.

Also as a side note. Here in Denmark in the academic community Greeks are considered ultra nationalistic and if one does field work one need to consider this. We are advised to keep our opinions to our selves if they don’t fit in with Modern Greek identity.

What you need to do is learn the difference between legend myth and historical facts. And learn that just because something writes and does historical research it does not destroy you myths and legends. Because that’s what they are just good stories.

Another interesting fact. A good friend of mine who is Danish. After he was soldier in Bosnia and Kosovo he started his academic carrier as a European Ethnologist. After he traveled to islands and mainland Greece. He was utterly shocked to the core: Saying that even the x-Yugoslavs people didn’t seem that national fanatics.

Greece had an enlightenment and a war of independence to have its country. FYROM was created because of Tito and yugoslavia fell apart. No greece and fyrom have nothing in common about how they came about. Of course you would know this if you knew the history you claim you do.

iapetoc is not a nationalistic extremist he just takes politics into account when understading national identities, while you do not. The powers that may be would be the happiest if the balkans are divided into 100 different countries because they can manipulate them better. Bosnians wern't considered bosnians 50 years ago, they were created. "Macedonians" were bulgarians 80 yers ago, they were also created.

He is right you traped in political correctness when talking about nationalities.

 

[Elias2]

Macedonia existed all the time but there was no countries like Albania (Shqiperia) , Bulgaria (New name on Thracian territory) or Greece (only tribes not as a country). If there is anything that did not exist are your fake countries made up by western european elite?. Kosovo did not exist as a country but was created by western europeans? - again for their purpose "divide and conquer". Last person to speak about original ethnicity is a Shqiptar (Albanian - modern and fake way to call and identify them).

.

Albania didn't exsist but albanians did, they are there as a seperate people apart form the other balkan populations.

Bulgaria was just russia trying to make a vassal country in the balkans out of the south slavs like yoruself. They made their own bulgarian orthodox church apart from the greek church in constantinopolis and fought a war with the ottomans for their independance. The bulgarian axarchate church in Ohrid was the forrunner of the "macedonian" orthodox church. They're arn't the actual bulgar peoples that came over 1000 years ago.

Greeks actually did exist and no they're wern't created like "macedonians" were after world war two.


If you don't take politics into the equations you can't fully understand nationalities. Or maybe you do and you don't like what it says about you Dejavu so you ignore it.

 

[DejaVu]

greece had an enlightenment and a war of independence to have its country. Fyrom was created because of tito and yugoslavia fell apart. No greece and fyrom have nothing in common about how they came about. Of course you would know this if you knew the history you claim you do.

Iapetoc is not a nationalistic extremist he just takes politics into account when understading national identities, while you do not. The powers that may be would be the happiest if the balkans are divided into 100 different countries because they can manipulate them better. Bosnians wern't considered bosnians 50 years ago, they were created. "macedonians" were bulgarians 80 yers ago, they were also created.

He is right you just play the politician when talking about nationalities.

100% wrong and fake statement.

 

[DejaVu]

albania didn't exsist but albanians did, they are there as a seperate people apart form the other balkan populations.

Bulgaria was just russia trying to make a vassal country in the balkans out of the south slavs like yoruself. They made their own bulgarian orthodox church apart from the greek church in constantinopolis and fought a war with the ottomans for their independance. The bulgarian axarchate church in ohrid was the forrunner of the "macedonian" orthodox church. They're arn't the actual bulgar peoples that came over 1000 years ago.

Greeks actually did exist and no they're wern't created like "macedonians" were after world war two.


If you don't take politics into the equations you can't fully understand nationalities. Or maybe you do and you don't like what it says about you dejavu so you ignore it.

You have been proven wrong "SPAMMER" and you dont give up with your empty statements and political discussion that dont belong here. Dont forget what the thread was about - Bosniaks and Bosnia, but your IQ is low you just cant understand that.

 

[Elias2]

Proven wrong how, because you say so? haha you are the spammer who just writes one line replys because you are mad that deep down you know you are not macedonian and are a political constuction of Tito in Yugoslavia.

 

[DejaVu]

Proven wrong how, because you say so? haha you are the spammer who just writes one line replys because you are mad that deep down you know you are not macedonian and are a political constuction of Tito in Yugoslavia.

Think its the opposite, you are neither ancient Greek or ancient Macedonian, Thracian, Illyrian and so on but only a christian Turk and Sub-saharan and yes we know what you are, just accept it.

 

[Elias2]

Think its the opposite, you are neither ancient Greek or ancient Macedonian, Thracian, Illyrian and so on but only a christian Turk and Sub-saharan and yes we know what you are, just accept it.

I think even turks would find this post funny.

 

[Elias2]

Here is another example of what happens when an identity is transplanted from the top-down, the result is an artifical population which can change "identity" seemlessly.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/2%C3%A5aaaa-census-puts-montenegrin-idea-to-the-test

"In the early 20th century, a census in then-independent Montenegro yielded a population that saw itself as 95 per cent Serbian.

In 1948, meanwhile, the first census after the Second World War in the newly created Republic of Montenegro mostly returned Montenegrins.

At that time, ethnic Croats, numbering only 1.7 per cent, were more numerous than Serbs.

But from 1991 to 2003 the number of Serbs in Montenegro has risen consistently from 9.7 to 32 per cent."



"The formation of a Montenegrin language, therefore, is not unprecedented, but faces a serious statistical problem. A majority of people in the republic in the 2003 census - 63 per cent - described their native language as Serbian. "

The rise of 9.7% to 32% was not due to immigration.

 

[Gosh]

That's not how you should count. Try grouping the haplogroups by origin.



The dominant category is Paleolithic for both Croatia and Bosnia, but Near-East for Serbia. Croatia has more Indo-European lineages than Bosnia though.

Note that the data you copied if for Bosnia-Herzegovina, not for ethnic Bosniaks only. It also includes ethnic Serbs and Croats living in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Ain't it looks very naive from today's perspective, Maciamo?

1. As the first, your data (from this site) are quite differend from the data from otheer sources. Your tables with genetic data are the worst which could be found in Internet. Try to check your data from this post with the latest data. You have a quite big difference.

2. It is obvious that you'll have much more "near eastern DNA" if you're geographically colser to that region. You had DNA studies which proved the closest possible similarity betven Serbs and bosnian muslims. Why you're not using that data?

3. You say: "Note that the data you copied if for Bosnia-Herzegovina, not for ethnic Bosniaks only". I can understand you. You're living in the country with a strong antiserbian propaganda. Brainwashing machine did the job pretty good.

When you're taking about Balkans, Serbs, Croats and so on, you'd have to much more facts about the history of this region. I'm talking about the history, Maciamo, not about politics.

For example, let's see a source which isn't serbian (and even more, we can say that it is- antiserbian). That's the Catholic Encyclopedia form the beggining of 20th century>

According to the census of 22 April 1895, Bosnia has 1,361,868 inhabitants and Herzegovina 229,168, giving a total population of 1,591,036. The number of persons to the square mile is small (about 80), less than that in any of the other Austrian crown provinces excepting Salzburg (about 70). This average does not vary much in the six districts (five in Bosnia, one in Herzegovina). The number of persons to the square mile in these districts is as follows: Doljna Tuzla, 106; Banjaluka, 96; Bihac, 91; Serajevo, 73, Mostar (Herzegovina), 65, Travnik, 62. There are 5,388 settlements, of which only 11 have more than 5,000 inhabitants, while 4,689 contain less 500 persons. Excluding some 30,000 Albanians living in the south-east, the Jews who emigrated in earlier times from Spain, a few Osmanli Turks, the merchants, officials. and Austrian troops, the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs. Although one in race, the people form in religious beliefs three sharply separated divisions: the Mohammedans, about 550,000 persons (35 per cent), Greek Schismatics, about 674,000 persons (43 per cent), and Catholics, about 334,000 persons (21.3 per cent).

Here's the complete article, please: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

When you're talking about Croats in Herzegovina and Dalmatia you have to know that they are ethnical Serbs converted in Croats through the action of catholic Church approx 130 years ago.

Dear Maciamo, genetics shouldn't be related with politics but with science, history and ethnicity.

Best regards

 

[Valmir]

After reading all of the Bosnians comments i concluded that Slavs loves to steal history of other nations!
Like they doing with Macedonia, and now they started with iLLyria.

 

[zanipolo]

That's not how you should count. Try grouping the haplogroups by origin.

Paleolithic European haplogroups (I1, I2a, I2b) :

Croatia = 51%
Bosnia = 53%
Serbia = 35%

Near-Eastern haplogroups (E, J, T) :

Croatia = 11%
Bosnia = 24%
Serbia = 42%

Indo-European/Caucasian haplogroups (G2a, R1a, R1b)

Croatia = 38%
Bosnia = 19.5%
Serbia = 23%


The dominant category is Paleolithic for both Croatia and Bosnia, but Near-East for Serbia. Croatia has more Indo-European lineages than Bosnia though.

Note that the data you copied if for Bosnia-Herzegovina, not for ethnic Bosniaks only. It also includes ethnic Serbs and Croats living in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

Are these ancient DNA results from graves in Illyria or are they the "Dark ages migrational numbers ( 600AD )" ?

 

[zanipolo]

After reading all of the Bosnians comments i concluded that Slavs loves to steal history of other nations!
Like they doing with Macedonia, and now they started with iLLyria.

Fully agree , its a pity people try to wipe out ancient culture like the illyrians, it has already happened with the Phoencians ( lebanese say they are phoencians , proven wrong already), the Egyptians of the pharohs, the Minoans, Trojans, etruscans etc etc

 

[seemann]

Bosnians are Illyrians they have 50% of I2a (Illyrian)
and the Name Bosnia is real ancient Illyrian Name BOSONA.

The Propaganda of our Neighbourgs is Fall,
we are not Serbs and not Croats we are Bosnians
and the Bosnian christians are Bosnians too but they
are victims of the centauryold Propaganda of our Neighbourgs
and the DNA Tests have shown that all Bosnians are very Similar
and more similar than with croatia or Serbia.

The Truth will EVER Win

Well, as far as I was reading in all relevant historical sources- Bosnian inhabitants are ethnically much closer to Serbs and Croats. Same sources said that Islam in Bosnia appeared with Turks.

 

[seemann]

After reading all of the Bosnians comments i concluded that Slavs loves to steal history of other nations!
Like they doing with Macedonia, and now they started with iLLyria.

Ha, ha, ha! When that comes from an Albanian it sounds like a joke!

 

[seemann]

"Serb" in the language Bizantinaca is the word that means "slaves", and that language is usually word "serbula" means the shoes of slaves, and the word "tzerboulianous" means those who wear cheap,shoes of the poor . The Serbs were given the name because they have become slaves of the emperor Bizantinaca.

SERBS DONT EXISTS SERBS LIVES ONLY FROM STEELING AND COPYD FROM OTHERS ! ! !

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!!! And I thought this is a place where I could find out something smart...

 

[LeBrok]

You can't stop stupid people from coming here or other websites, can you.
Welcome to Eupedia.

 

[zanipolo]

@Maciano

Any chance to see a Y-dna split between Bosnia and Herzegovina ?

 

[zanipolo]

I have found the Y-Dna split from 2006

E3b1 (M78)
(B) Bosnia = 10.14
(H) Herzegovina = 7.80

G2a
B = 4.35
H = 0

J2 (M102)
B = 0
H = 1.40

I1a
B = 1.45
H = 7.08

I1b (M26) P-37
B = 52.20
H = 63.83

K
B = 0
H = 2.84

R1a (M17)
B = 24.60
H = 12.06

Q
B = 0
H = 0.71

R1b (M173)
B = 1.40
H = 3.55

 

[zanipolo]

I have found the Y-Dna split from 2006

E3b1 (M78)
(B) Bosnia = 10.14
(H) Herzegovina = 7.80

G2a
B = 4.35
H = 0

J2 (M102)
B = 0
H = 1.40

I1a
B = 1.45
H = 7.08

I1b (M26) P-37
B = 52.20
H = 63.83

K
B = 0
H = 2.84

R1a (M17)
B = 24.60
H = 12.06

Q
B = 0
H = 0.71

R1b (M173)
B = 1.40
H = 3.55

 

[julia90]

very tall and many goodlooking people.. The most beautiful i have seen in southern europe, i don t know if they resemble most croats or serb, but croat are more slavic looking. I have seen only catholics of herzegovina ( southern west of the country, there is a dinaroid type with light eyes and fair skin with dark hair, a dinaro mixed wit keltid maybe. Overall very tall people. East med are the second strain present.