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View Poll Results: What is your choice for a single European language?

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  • English (top 10 world languages)

    32 46.38%
  • Spanish (top 10 world languages)

    1 1.45%
  • Portuguese (top 10 world languages)

    1 1.45%
  • Latin

    13 18.84%
  • Esperanto

    4 5.80%
  • German

    3 4.35%
  • French

    0 0%
  • A new hybrid

    15 21.74%
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Thread: European Common Language - The Poll

  1. #1
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    European Common Language - The Poll



    What would your prefference be?

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    My preference would be for Esperanto. Incidentally, the first ever text book in Welsh designed to teach the international language Esperanto has just been published. The Mini-Cwrs is a 36 page guide to Esperanto, consisting of ten lessons, some reading exercises and a vocabulary.

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    Latin language. It is fair for all, because no one nation is privileged in that case.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    English and not just because I am. It is the international language of the air and shipping. It is the primary language for trade and it is the primary language used on the internet. Look on the opening page on wikipedia:
    English 3 200 000+ articles. The nearest is german with just over a million, french doesn't even reach a million.
    In Europe German is the most spoken mother tongue, but english is the most widely spoken within Europe. German even has more speakers within Europe than french.

    Latin is a dead language. Esperanto can probably muster 2 000 000 speakers worldwide, so it is a waste of time. The EU population stands at about 500 000 000 people, 51% of which can speak english either as a native or as a secondary language. Even if all the esperanto users lived in the EU that would make the speakers not even 0.5%.
    A list of the most spoken:
    http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

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    Latin is a dead language, and it is a very strong reason to make it eu. common language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    Latin is a dead language, and it is a very strong reason to make it eu. common language.
    Could you explain why? Imagine the amount of words that would have to be incorporated into it to fit with the modern world. I would guess quite a few would have to be borrowed from English. What would you do for television, half from greek, half from latin? Call it a proculvision for it to be precise?

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    Could you explain why?
    I explained why!!!

    Even Jews are not privileged peoples of God, although pretend that.

    English is for englishmen, serbian for serbs, german for germans.

    So, Latin is not spoken by any nation, and it is a good compromise, when we discusse which language to choose for common euro language. And Latin has a long history of being euro-common language. It was lingua franca at least since 2 century BC until 15 century AD.

    And English is not spread because it is easy to learn. It is not easy to learn, nor to speak. It was spread because of colonization, of the world.

    As for your second phrase, I want to remember you that Pope of Vatican, update latin language time by time, with new words.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Latin is a dead language for a reason. A language is a reflection of a people's mindset, culture, values and Zeitgeist. Latin died because it does not reflect the spirit of modern society any more. How would you talk about modern technologies in Latin ? Would you invent words for all the new concepts that have emerged in the last 1500 years ?

    For all these reasons I am against the use (and even the compulsory teaching at school) of dead languages or the use of artificial languages like Esperanto, that are devoid of any spirit and culture. Esperanto is easy to learn, sure enough, but its simplicity also results in a lack of nuances found in languages that have been spoken and developed by hundreds of millions of people through centuries. Modern English is very different from the medieval Middle English and Old French from which it evolved, but it has incorporated everything that was good about these languages and added nuances that didn't exist before.

    English is the best possible lingua franca between Romance and Germanic speakers because it is the only language that combines in a fairly balanced way elements from both linguistic families. It also has the largest vocabulary of any language on earth, and is extremely flexible and modern in its structure. As it already is the world's main lingua franca, it doesn't make sense to choose another one for Europe. The rest of the world won't follow suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    And English is not spread because it is easy to learn. It is not easy to learn, nor to speak. It was spread because of colonization, of the world.
    English is definitely the easiest European language to learn for beginners because of its simplified grammar, but also because of the exposure to English through computer language, scientific and technical terms, Hollywood and all the other media using English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    As for your second phrase, I want to remember you that Pope of Vatican, update latin language time by time, with new words.
    Latin's association with the Catholic Church is another good reason why it shouldn't be used. It is heavily tainted by religion, like Arabic, not something we want to built the future upon. We had enough with 1000 years of Catholic-induced Dark Ages.

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    Would you invent words for all the new concepts that have emerged in the last 1500 years ?
    It just was invented.

    Just read article:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3030169.stm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    It just was invented.
    Just read article:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3030169.stm
    An article that goes to prove my point about latin having to borrow from living languages.
    telephonium albo televisifico coniunctum
    Television, the root used for televisifico is a marrying of tele (greek) and vision (latin) and was used in english. I gave you the correct latin word for television in an earlier post (proculvision) which shows that they aren't even sure when it comes to latin. As for the word telephonium the root is telephone and that is entirely greek using tele and phone. Is that the best way tghey have for inventing new latin words, stick ium or um at the end. The internet would be internetium. Of course we would have to loose WWW as a prefix because latin doesn't use the letter W, along with J and U. Should we change it to mundus (or orbis terrarum) prolixus (or laxus, fusus, latus) aranea (or plaga), and then is it male or female form? You know english doesn't have that problem.
    MPA.Eupediae.commus - Ite lookus interestium

    Then there is the point that you are on an international forum where people speak a variety of languages and yet you are making your argument in, er, english. Why aren't you using your mothertongue? Let me think...hmmmmm. probably because not many people speak it outside the former Yugoslavia. English doesn't seem have that problem.

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    Please stop, right now, cause all people who read your post will laugh with you. What you wrote:
    An article that goes to prove my point about latin having to borrow from living languages.
    The living languages have borrowed from latin, and not latin from living languages, dear friend. In which living language is word "television"??? It is not live language, it is international, scientific.
    Television, the root used for televisifico is a marrying of tele (greek) and vision (latin) and was used in english.
    Sorry, it is not english, and it has not any meaning in english. It is scientific international word.
    I gave you the correct latin word for television in an earlier post (proculvision) which shows that they aren't even sure when it comes to latin.
    Well, I can give you correct english word for television (I see far away), which shows...
    As for the word telephonium the root is telephone and that is entirely greek using tele and phone. Is that the best way tghey have for inventing new latin words, stick ium or um at the end.
    As for the word Teles phonos, which is greek, it is the way you invent new words in english, just remove -os from greek words.
    Of course we would have to loose WWW as a prefix because latin doesn't use the letter W, along with J and U.
    Why it is not loose in serbian, italian, turkish etc??? Internet is not entire in english.
    Then there is the point that you are on an international forum where people speak a variety of languages and yet you are making your argument in, er, english.
    There are a many pages which use another language.
    And here are many threads where users use other languages, french, spanish etc.
    And your ancestors spoke latin when went to church, of course. I said, English must be thankfull to colonization of the world. But the fact that a language is spread is not argument that it must be spreaded more and more.
    By your logic, Islamic religion must spread around the world, because it is has a lot of believers there.
    English is even harder then portuguese to learn and to speak.
    English doesn't seem have that problem.
    Which problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    Please stop, right now, cause all people who read your post will laugh with you. What you wrote:
    Actually it goes to you Neader. You, my friend, jump into conclusions much too quickly and too often. Try this: analyze first, write later.

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    Actually it goes to you Neader. You, my friend, jump into conclusions much too quickly and too often. Try this: analyze first, write later.
    I don't see any fact here.

    It si to laugh, and with high sound, when he says that Latin took english word "television".

    It is known that latin even in ancient times borrowed from greek. I don't know why we have to wonder for that?

    But when you don't see the tree in your eye, and you see the hair in anothers eye, it is to laugh, and also it is childish egoism.

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    As the poll appears to be split between English and a new hybrid what about a compromise?

    If English was altered to make it easier to learn. I'm no expert in languages but a suggestion might be the dropping of the 'th' sound (as many non native speakers struggle with its pronunciation) perhaps replaced with a d, so that would be pronouced dat, those, dose etc.

    Various minor alternation like this could be made perhaps some problematic grammar changes, but essentially it would still remain understandable to current English speakers. The new variation could be given a generic name like Europa and marketed as a neutral world language.

    Essentially the point would be:

    1. Make english as easy to learn as possible without alienating the current speakers.

    2. Re-brand it as a language of the world, making it easier for countries to adopt it as their official language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    Please stop, right now, cause all people who read your post will laugh with you. What you wrote:
    Somehow I doubt it.

    The living languages have borrowed from latin, and not latin from living languages, dear friend. In which living language is word "television"??? It is not live language, it is international, scientific.
    I will once more try to explain this to you. The word television is not international, it is not latin, but a neologism, a word made up from two seperate languages, greek and latin. It is a purely a word created in the english language. It did not exist before that.

    Sorry, it is not english, and it has not any meaning in english. It is scientific international word.
    Wrong again. It was coined by John Logie Baird. It was used in English, not as an international scientific word. He should know because he invented TV, and it seems the word as well.

    Well, I can give you correct english word for television (I see far away), which shows...
    No, it is televsion, as it was coined by an english speaker.

    As for the word Teles phonos, which is greek, it is the way you invent new words in english, just remove -os from greek words.
    Oh for crying out loud. Tele is greek, vision is latin. The word is a neologism.
    If you want to go down to root words then even latin is derived from an older languages, primarily being celtic languages, Etruscan and Greek. So maybe we should really go for ancient greek. It was the language of scholars and science during the Roman republic. The Gospels were originally written in Greek. Everyday latin was for the plebs.


    Why it is not loose in serbian, italian, turkish etc??? Internet is not entire in english.
    No, but it is the most popular on the net and the most used.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Internet_usage

    There are a many pages which use another language.
    And here are many threads where users use other languages, french, spanish etc.
    see link

    And your ancestors spoke latin when went to church, of course.
    Er, no. The mass might have been said in latin, but the majority of the people did not speak it, they spoke english. It is what prompted translations of the bible because people didn't speak latin. Even at the height of Roman occupation in the UK people still spoke the native language or a bastardised version of latin. By the time the Romans left we were back to speaking celtic languages. After that it was anglo-saxon. Your grasp of history is poor.

    I said, English must be thankfull to colonization of the world.
    As was french (very popular in the 19th centruy) Spanish and even latin by the Romans. English owes it sucess to not only colonisation, but the economic, scientific and cultural power of the US.

    But the fact that a language is spread is not argument that it must be spreaded more and more.
    Wut?

    By your logic, Islamic religion must spread around the world, because it is has a lot of believers there.
    Islam is the fastest growing relgion on the planet. Bad analogy

    English is even harder then portuguese to learn and to speak.
    And Finnish is harder than English. What is your point?

    Which problem?
    The gender problem. French, German, Italian and Latin (also Spanish) assign gender to nouns. English doesn't. A cat is a cat and because it has no gender assignation it doesn't affect sentance structure. English also has no formal or informal you.
    Maybe you would prefer japanese. No gender, regular verbs structure, hardly any plurals, loads of pronouns, but they don't like to use them. Maciamo is the better one to show the benefits of Japanese, after all he speaks it

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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    As the poll appears to be split between English and a new hybrid what about a compromise?

    If English was altered to make it easier to learn. I'm no expert in languages but a suggestion might be the dropping of the 'th' sound (as many non native speakers struggle with its pronunciation) perhaps replaced with a d, so that would be pronouced dat, those, dose etc.

    Various minor alternation like this could be made perhaps some problematic grammar changes, but essentially it would still remain understandable to current English speakers. The new variation could be given a generic name like Europa and marketed as a neutral world language.
    Some countries already do this. Singlish being an example.
    When you think about it, it is how a language evolves. At one time all the words in, for example: knight, would have been said. Over time we have changed how we say the word.
    It borrows from other languages and adopts the words to suit. As english become more global it could very well adopt the way the chinese say certain words. Never know in 200 years time the english then might sound just as odd to us as modern english would sound to Chaucer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neander View Post
    The living languages have borrowed from latin, and not latin from living languages, dear friend. In which living language is word "television"??? It is not live language, it is international, scientific.
    Modern words like 'television' built on Greco-Latin roots were coined (mostly) by English, German or French speakers.

    Most of the so-called Greek or Latin words used in English today are recent coinages that just didn't exist in the Antiquity. It's obvious for television (or TV or telly) but it's less obvious for words like psychology or geology. It is easy to jump to the conclusion that these words existed in ancient Greece because they sound Greek. The truth is that nobody uttered these words until the 16th and 18th century respectively. See my thread Who gave sciences their names ?.

    Modern English is not a pure Germanic language. It's a highly hybrid tongue mixing Norse, West Germanic, French, Latin and Greek vocabulary. It is superior to Latin or any other of its ancestor because it not only combines all those ancestors heritage, but came up with new words using roots from ancestral languages.


    Well, I can give you correct english word for television (I see far away), which shows...
    You reasoning is flawed because you think that modern English is Old English, two languages that are completely mutually unintelligible. Modern English is 70% Romance in vocabulary. The word 'television' was first invented by a Frenchman in 1907, then borrowed into English and other languages. The shortening TV is American and dates from 1948.

    As for the word Teles phonos, which is greek, it is the way you invent new words in english, just remove -os from greek words.
    It's normal to use roots from your ancestors' language(s) to build new words. Everybody does it in any language. English people, just like most Europeans, have a mixture of Germanic, Celtic, Italic/Roman and Greek ancestry*. It's only natural that English or French or German speakers should use roots from Latin or Greek, the language of some of their ancestors, to make new words. Most of the new words in English are nevertheless built on Germanic roots**, to keep the ancestral balance.

    * Then let's not forget that English is not just the language of English people, but of many countries including the USA, which population includes a lot of Greek, Italian, French and Spanish descent, strongly reinforcing the Greco-Roman genetic heritage of modern English.

    ** here are some examples : keyboard, screen, loudspeakers, mouse, network key, browser, chat, feeds, tweet, podcast...

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Modern words like 'television' built on Greco-Latin roots were coined (mostly) by English, German or French speakers.
    I must remaind you, that the word 'television' is used in all languages. Neither it is english, nor french, nor serbian, nor albanian.
    If these languages borrowed word televison from "scientific vocabulary", why it is abnormall for latin to borrow this word???
    Well, latin is dead language, in the meaning that is not spoken by any nation, but it was spoken continuosly by Pope and cardinals in Vatican and even by chatolic church around the West Europe. Anyway it is not fully dead language, but partly dead. It is still official language of the state of Vatican.
    You reasoning is flawed because you think that modern English is Old English, two languages that are completely mutually unintelligible.
    Did you see it was an irony for what Mycernius said:
    I gave you the correct latin word for television in an earlier post (proculvision) which shows that they aren't even sure when it comes to latin
    .

    Then...

    It's normal to use roots from your ancestors' language(s) to build new words.
    And what is wrong with latin language which borrow word 'television'??? The prefix -us is just like in english is "the" f.ex. The boy, the girl etc...
    I think it is childish ethnocentrism of english speakers to consider abnormal for latin to borrow modern words.
    I don't see reasoning, just childish ethnocentrism.
    * Then let's not forget that English is not just the language of English people, but of many countries including the USA, which population includes a lot of Greek, Italian, French and Spanish descent, strongly reinforcing the Greco-Roman genetic heritage of modern English.
    I think it is wrong coclusion. These greeks, romans, italians etc, whatever they are, are just assimilated. Like a lot of mongols are assimilated in russian nation that doesnt mean Russian is mongol language.

    ** here are some examples : keyboard, screen, loudspeakers, mouse, network key, browser, chat, feeds, tweet, podcast...
    These are just english words. Not more, not lesser, than english words. Every nation has these words in their language.

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    I will once more try to explain this to you. The word television is not international, it is not latin, but a neologism, a word made up from two seperate languages, greek and latin. It is a purely a word created in the english language. It did not exist before that.
    Dear friend, this word has not any conection with english. It is neologism, BUT it is not english neologism.
    Every language use this word:
    Africaans: televisie
    Albanian: televizion
    Bulgarian: телевизор (televizor)
    Catalan: televisió
    Croatian: televizija
    Czech: televize
    Dutch: televisie
    etc. etc........
    I don't see any conection with english. Tele is greek, Vision is latin.
    So it is neologism, but NOT "english neologism".
    To be english neologism, it must have english roots, and must be organic part of this language.
    No, but it is the most popular on the net and the most used.
    Well, I am not understanding you, what is your point here.
    We are not debating if english is most used or not. Our debate is about, which language must be used as a common language.
    I say again my sentence which seems you have not understood:
    But the fact that a language is spread is not argument that it must be spoken more.
    Then...

    Islam is the fastest growing relgion on the planet. Bad analogy
    It is the same as your reasoning. Plebs think in that way: "Every people do that, why we don't do that". It is logic of plebs.
    I say again: The english is most used, but it is not reason to make it euro or global language.
    It must have any positive value to be blobal or euro common language.
    The gender problem. French, German, Italian and Latin (also Spanish) assign gender to nouns. English doesn't. A cat is a cat and because it has no gender assignation it doesn't affect sentance structure. English also has no formal or informal you.
    The first I think is not any reason. When you learn language you learn and gender, and it is not harder than your writing.

    F.ex. Beautiful, is not read as it is written. First we have B
    Then E, but here the sound E is not read.
    Then A, again it is not read.
    U, it is read
    t, is read
    i, is read
    f, is read
    U is read as I in THIRD, so it is not used.
    L is read as strong L, so it is not used.

    In 9 sounds, only 5 are read correctly, two are not read, and two are read in wrong way.

    Latin has global scripting, One letter - one sound. It is a value of this language.

    The second: Formal and informal are not language characteristics, but it reflects the culture and education.

    In Serbian TI is singular YOU, and VI is plural YOU. Then, you can use formal VI, but it is not characteristic of that language, it just A HABIT.

  21. #21
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    To be english neologism, it must have english roots, and must be organic part of this language.
    To say more clear:

    From the dying of words "tele" and "vision" together with latin/greek language, somewhere in the late ancient times....

    UNTIL.....

    Reviving of these words in the form of "television",,,

    There are nearly 2 thousands years...

    ...it is not organic part of english, or another language.

  22. #22
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    The EU is a liberal farce

    "The decision to accord Irish full status is likely to stoke fierce passions within an EU that already has 20 recognised languages, 380 language permutations and an annual interpreting and translation bill of €1bn."

    see link below:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...es-407991.html

    It is things like this that make the EU look like a bit of a joke, until the issues of a common langauge is agreed upon it will remain a farce. Everyone is being to liberal and inclusive, to open the door to every minor tongue in Europe is completely unpractical and unnecissary.

    They should make it manditory to speak english in the parliament if you can't or wont speak it then you can keep your mouth shut, and we can spend the 1bn on making people lives better.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by edao View Post
    "The decision to accord Irish full status is likely to stoke fierce passions within an EU that already has 20 recognised languages, 380 language permutations and an annual interpreting and translation bill of €1bn."

    see link below:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...es-407991.html

    It is things like this that make the EU look like a bit of a joke, until the issues of a common langauge is agreed upon it will remain a farce. Everyone is being to liberal and inclusive, to open the door to every minor tongue in Europe is completely unpractical and unnecissary.

    They should make it manditory to speak english in the parliament if you can't or wont speak it then you can keep your mouth shut, and we can spend the 1bn on making people lives better.

    I don't see the problem. The article says that the EU is likely to reject Irish Gaelic as an official language. The 20 official languages are necessary. Even if only 10 million people speak Greek or Hungarian or Czech or Portuguese, many of these speakers do not have a sufficient level in another language to be able to understand all the legal texts. It is essential that all Europeans be able to understand their own legislations. Irish Gaelic will be rejected because about everybody can speak English well in Ireland. Those who speak Gaelic also speak English (but not vice versa).

    Most of the daily business in the EU institutions is conducted in one of the three working languages : English, French or German. The other 17 official languages are not used in meetings, emails, and so on. Being official means that important documents and laws have to be translated in each of them. They are not working languages.

    The EU is far from a farce. Everything is well thought of and well organised. It's probably more efficient than many national administrations.

  24. #24
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    None. Homogeneity is not a virtue in a culture.

  25. #25
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    Irish became an official working language of the EU on 1st January 2007, This followed a unanimous decision on 13th of June 2005 by EU foreign ministers that Irish would be made the 21st official language of the EU. However, a derogation stipulates that not all documents have to be translated into Irish as is the case with the other official languages.

    This is one of the main strengths of the EU if you ask me, you give up some of your freedoms/independence but you are rewarded with greater influence in a larger forum.

    Why do you feel so strongly that everyone should speak the one language "English" in parliament edao? If its that essential we all speak the same language why did you kick up quiet so big a fuss back in the forties, we could all be speaking German now

    So I say Viva le difference!

    "Go n-eiri an bothar leat.
    Go raibh coir na gaoithe i gconai leat.
    Go dtaitni an ghrian go bog blath ar do chlar eadain,
    go dtite an bhaisteach go bog min ar do ghoirt.
    Agus go gcasfar le cheile sinn aris,
    go gcoinni Dia i mbois a laimhe thu."

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