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Thread: haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe

  1. #26
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    In all likelihood; from my research ... Haplogroup L is European / Caucasoid - and this may have been a minor haplogroup or a tagalong haplogroup among (pre-Indo-European) Europeans. Perhaps it was abundant and settled in Europe with Haplogroup G bearing peoples; alongside the E-V13 (and various other E1b1b) and I2 and I1 peoples. The reason why Haplogroup L is rare in Europe is because it was already quite rare among settlers, but Indo-European settlers further reduced Haplogroup L to a very small frequency.

    The reason why haplogroup L is so low is because it probably followed Haplogroup G into Western and Central Europe. I would say the same thing for Haplogroup T prior to Indo-European conquest/settlement; even though haplogroup T is shown in studies and maps to be more abundant in Europe. (If you take my theory analogously.)

    If you follow the paternal haplogroups timeline; L and T are (apparently) descendants of Haplogroup K-M9 and are relatives to each other. - This is the analogy.

    Most of Haplogroup L in all likelihood; came from Neolithic farmers. While the majority of Europeans in Neolithic Europe (at this time) were haplogroup G.

    So, my conclusion is that Haplogroup L is nothing more than a relative Haplogroup to haplogroup T and G. E1b1b and so-forth, and it arrived in Europe as a minor haplogroup; with those peoples - and is nothing more than a minor Neolithic farmer haplogroup.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

    23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.
    According to my research; you are probably a descendant of pre-Germanic Central Europeans. This haplogroup L bearing forefather of yours; may have merely assimilated into Germanic culture and became Germanic. And then so-on and so forth, it became an Anglo-Saxon lineage.

    (I noticed from my research; quite interesting to me, that Germanic peoples and Italians tend to carry haplogroup L as well as other Neolithic haplogroups in mass abundance from the norm of Europeans. Some clades of Haplogroup L are even found in Basques, Sardinians and people of the Caucasus.)

  3. #28
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L1b L-M317
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1a8

    Ethnic group
    East Anglian
    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Korbyn View Post
    According to my research; you are probably a descendant of pre-Germanic Central Europeans. This haplogroup L bearing forefather of yours; may have merely assimilated into Germanic culture and became Germanic. And then so-on and so forth, it became an Anglo-Saxon lineage.

    (I noticed from my research; quite interesting to me, that Germanic peoples and Italians tend to carry haplogroup L as well as other Neolithic haplogroups in mass abundance from the norm of Europeans. Some clades of Haplogroup L are even found in Basques, Sardinians and people of the Caucasus.)
    Again, I respect your views, but none of the times look correct for a European Neolithic hypothesis. L-L595 (ISOGG 2016 = L2) is mysterious, and only found very rarely, spread across Europe including Sardinia (actually, I think one has been found in Western Asia). L-M349 (ISOGG 2016 = L1b1) is the most common clade of Y hg L found in Europe, although also found in Western Asia, where it's origin looks more likely. But I'm L-SK1414 (ISOGG 2016 = L1b2c). My line diverged away from the M349 and PH8 variants of M317 around 13,000 to 14,000 years ago. So far, it's only turned up in Southern England and SW Pakistan, with possible STR predictions also from Azores, and Iran. No where else in Europe. I likely share with the Pakistani and Iranian testers 1,000 to 3,000 years ago. The Azores STR tester does look interesting. It could even maybe suggest a Portuguese trade route between Asia and England. The other South English testers are all low marker STR, but they all descend from one Y grandfather in Southern England that lived during the 1740s, only 32 miles away from my Y grandfather at that time. I personally interpret that as most "likely" suggesting that my Y moved from the region around Iran, to Southern England, somewhere between 1,500 and 500 years ago. More test results in the future will hopefully help me to develop a better understanding.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    l-M20

    Ethnic group
    Jamaican
    Country: United Kingdom



    Hi
    I find this interesting, very interesting... I have just had the results from my Y DNA (FTDNA basic 12 marker). I belong to haplogroup L-M20.
    I am of Jamaican decent, the earliest forefather I have at this time dates back to 1840 in Jamaica. My understanding up until now was that we migrated from France with my surname being MIGNOTT
    I am seriously considering having the 37 or 67 marker test. My results show I have one match who is in Arabia!!
    If anyone could guide me or shed some light I would be grateful

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L1b L-M317
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1a8

    Ethnic group
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    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Wilbafors View Post
    Hi
    I find this interesting, very interesting... I have just had the results from my Y DNA (FTDNA basic 12 marker). I belong to haplogroup L-M20.
    I am of Jamaican decent, the earliest forefather I have at this time dates back to 1840 in Jamaica. My understanding up until now was that we migrated from France with my surname being MIGNOTT
    I am seriously considering having the 37 or 67 marker test. My results show I have one match who is in Arabia!!
    If anyone could guide me or shed some light I would be grateful
    Have you joined the Y Haplogroup L project on FT-DNA and talked to it's administrator Gareth yet? I really would.

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    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2a1

    Ethnic group
    French Canadian
    Country: Canada-Quebec



    There are always sales around Christmas, so sit on your money for now, and you may get a Y-67 for the price of a Y-37. Or a Y-111 for the price of a Y-67.

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    I did 23andme and got L2* but the recent update changed it to L-M22. Anyone know any more info about this subclade. Seems nothing has been studied about it, or how L was distributed amongst euros.

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    MtDNA haplogroup
    L1B1a

    Country: France



    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Hello, I am new to this forum and very puzzled, my my mt DNA L1b1a. I am Dutch as are My ancestors. I have blond hair and green eyes. Regional affiliation according to the genographic project is 64% scandinavian, 34% southern europe and 2% finnish. Would anybody be so kind to sheb some light please?

  9. #34
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b Z2109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskia View Post
    Hello, I am new to this forum and very puzzled, my my mt DNA L1b1a. I am Dutch as are My ancestors. I have blond hair and green eyes. Regional affiliation according to the genographic project is 64% scandinavian, 34% southern europe and 2% finnish. Would anybody be so kind to sheb some light please?
    Hi Saskia. mtDNA is a very small component of whole DNA, way below 1%. If your African ancestor great, great..grandmother lived 7 generations ago, you will have sub 1% of her total DNA input, but sometimes nothing at all, except mtDNA. Going back in time, by seventh generation, you had 128 ancestors and inherited small parts of DNA from almost all of them. Ancestry from before 150-200 years ago are disappearing very quickly from DNA. Just traces of them left.
    Be wary of people who tend to glorify the past, underestimate the present, and demonize the future.

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    MtDNA haplogroup
    L1B1a

    Country: France



    Thank LeBrok, that is very informative!

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    Hello Gabor. Could Kenezy have changed to Kennedy? The Bathory Family is very Fascinating to me. Could L-M20 possibly be Romani?

    Kind Regards

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    One more thought. I come from the Angicized 'Baker' Family, but I know the surname was originally spelled another way. It originally was Bathor. It's quite possible the 'T' was changed to 'K' and the 'H' was dropped, because my Grandfather said one letter was dropped and another one changed. I'm just throwing ideas out here.

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    It leads me to believe the recent ancestry of L-M20 in Europe possibly came from a Nomadic but Isolated People, because of the rarity, and yet the wide dispursion of the Haplogroup subclade.

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    Hello A Norfolk. You seem to have a logical, balanced hypothesis there!

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    Could Kenezy have changed to Kennedy?
    Sounds far fetched to me. Even Kinison would be more likely than Kennedy to have its origin in Kenezy.

    Could L-M20 possibly be Romani?
    In India, L-M20 has a higher frequency among Dravidian castes, but is somewhat rarer in Indo-Aryan castes. No significant presence in Gypsies. If any.


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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L-M349

    Ethnic group
    Neolithic Farmer
    Country: Lebanon



    Didn't want to bump this old thread, but it seems I am also L-M20 from Lebanon.

  17. #42
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    I would guess you most likely got your L from Neolithic Farmers from Antolia and the Causcas. haplogroup L is acutually most common in Far Northern Italy Espically in Trentino and in one study from people in Fascia which is Northeastern Trentino (2013) showed a high 19.2% these people identify with the Ladin people and probably have one of the highest if not highest frequency of L in Europe if where your paternal ancesters come from is near or in regions where Romansh or other Italic laguages are found i would not be suprised

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
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    H95a1 ..Pannoni

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    Quote Originally Posted by HAYZOO View Post
    I would guess you most likely got your L from Neolithic Farmers from Antolia and the Causcas. haplogroup L is acutually most common in Far Northern Italy Espically in Trentino and in one study from people in Fascia which is Northeastern Trentino (2013) showed a high 19.2% these people identify with the Ladin people and probably have one of the highest if not highest frequency of L in Europe if where your paternal ancesters come from is near or in regions where Romansh or other Italic laguages are found i would not be suprised
    I have a match Mtdna from Arten, Belluno, Veneto , Italy whose is L-M20 ydna ..........surname Toigo
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Venice is around 10% and also has one the highest frequencies in Europe in most of Europe its is between 0-5%

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    So what population do you think brought your L into the SouthEast of England

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a(m223)(L801)

    Country: Albania



    L is indian!

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L1b

    Ethnic group
    Megreli of Elamo-Dravidian origin
    Country: Georgia



    Haha theres no way exiled Elamites reached western europe, these people migrated before the bronze age with other early european farmers

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    one possible roman period source for Y 'L' in the UK, could be from the East Anglian area, the Norfolk,Suffolk Essex area's. These area,s were earlier known as retirement area's for Legionaries etc who had completed their 25yrs service, this would support post #42.

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    VERY sorry for necroing this thread, but

    >This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.

    I found this sort of funny because of the 4 Armenia copper age samples (who all had yDNA L1 as far as I know). Two of them had a high probability for having blond hair and of the 3 tested for eye colour, one had blue eyes.
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