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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L2a

    Country: France



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.

    haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe

    I belong to the haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe.
    My subclade is L2, which is the western form of L.
    L1 is found in India, L3 in Pakistan.
    Here is one scenario among many others :
    One thinks that the haplogroup L is dravidian (black skinned, dravidian language).
    In the 14th century BCE lived in western Iran the Elamites (black skinned, with a dravidian-like language), whose capital was Shushan (= Susa). It is probable that their haplogroup was mainly L2.
    In the Bible (Ezra 4:10) it is said that the assyrian king Ashurbanipal had exiled and deported Elamites to Samaria. A bas-relief in Louvre museum shows Ashurbanipal with deported Elamites. This can explain the presence of L2 in Syria and Lebanon. These deported mingled with the local population and became Phoenicians. That's the reason why L2 are found in Mediterranean Europe.

    Se non e vero, e bene trovato !

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    L2a
    Country: USA - Massachusetts



    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

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    3/4 Colonial American, 1/8 Cornish, 1/8 Welsh
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl good View Post
    This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.
    It might be difficult to trace the migration pattern of the little L2 there is in Europe, but Classical-era merchants from Persia/Phoenicia/etc. seems possible, I believe that Maciamo postulates that on this site. I haven't scoped out any scholarly sources, though, because L2 never seems relevant when discussing European demographics as a whole.

    By the way, welcome! I'm a fellow American of Swiss descent (well, on the direct patriline anyway)... I can't get my line back so far but I've also gotten a fairly rare haplogroup for my line (I2*-cluster A). I suppose "Gutten" was Anglicized as "Good" in your case? My original Swiss-German surname was similarly radically Anglicized... it even starts with a different letter now.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2a2a1b1 (Z2054)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    T2b25

    Ethnic group
    Saxon
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    Quote Originally Posted by carl good View Post
    This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.
    Hi, I have a very interesting family story: My great-grandfather (Julius Kenézy de Simánd) is from genus Guthkeled whose ancestor called Vecellinus von Weißenburg from Bavaria. He became a great hero in Hungary helping the christian kings against the pagan rebels. These genus later split into several others: Báthory, Kenézy, etc. It is fascinating that the name Gutt, Gutten, Guth remains even 1000 years also in Hungary.

    Kind Regards:
    Gábor Balogh

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    Hello Gabor. Could Kenezy have changed to Kennedy? The Bathory Family is very Fascinating to me. Could L-M20 possibly be Romani?

    Kind Regards

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    Could Kenezy have changed to Kennedy?
    Sounds far fetched to me. Even Kinison would be more likely than Kennedy to have its origin in Kenezy.

    Could L-M20 possibly be Romani?
    In India, L-M20 has a higher frequency among Dravidian castes, but is somewhat rarer in Indo-Aryan castes. No significant presence in Gypsies. If any.


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    One more thought. I come from the Angicized 'Baker' Family, but I know the surname was originally spelled another way. It originally was Bathor. It's quite possible the 'T' was changed to 'K' and the 'H' was dropped, because my Grandfather said one letter was dropped and another one changed. I'm just throwing ideas out here.

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    I would guess you most likely got your L from Neolithic Farmers from Antolia and the Causcas. haplogroup L is acutually most common in Far Northern Italy Espically in Trentino and in one study from people in Fascia which is Northeastern Trentino (2013) showed a high 19.2% these people identify with the Ladin people and probably have one of the highest if not highest frequency of L in Europe if where your paternal ancesters come from is near or in regions where Romansh or other Italic laguages are found i would not be suprised

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 -Z19945..Jura
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    H95a1 ..Pannoni

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    Quote Originally Posted by HAYZOO View Post
    I would guess you most likely got your L from Neolithic Farmers from Antolia and the Causcas. haplogroup L is acutually most common in Far Northern Italy Espically in Trentino and in one study from people in Fascia which is Northeastern Trentino (2013) showed a high 19.2% these people identify with the Ladin people and probably have one of the highest if not highest frequency of L in Europe if where your paternal ancesters come from is near or in regions where Romansh or other Italic laguages are found i would not be suprised
    I have a match Mtdna from Arten, Belluno, Veneto , Italy whose is L-M20 ydna ..........surname Toigo
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

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    Venice is around 10% and also has one the highest frequencies in Europe in most of Europe its is between 0-5%

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H7

    Ethnic group
    L2a
    Country: USA - Massachusetts



    There are a number of "goods" in the US with the Lb2 Y chromosome haplogroup. It seems that they reside from pensylvania to Illinois. Many were anabatists or religious conservatives such as the mennonites originally. I was supprised that so many of those with this haplogroup in the US have the surname "Good" using Family Tree DNA web site.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c1 PF3892+ (Swiss)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U4a (Cornish)

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    Quote Originally Posted by carl good View Post
    There are a number of "goods" in the US with the Lb2 Y chromosome haplogroup. It seems that they reside from pensylvania to Illinois. Many were anabatists or religious conservatives such as the mennonites originally. I was supprised that so many of those with this haplogroup in the US have the surname "Good" using Family Tree DNA web site.
    Is the spelling consistent among the Good family? My surname's English spellings vary radically. For example, most did not make the change to the first letter that my branch did. In fact, I wasn't certain that my surname was even related to some of these other spellings until I took a DNA test.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2c
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    I've read about the Goods and found it quite interesting. Do they have any close matches in other surnames or from around the Mediterranean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Androcle View Post
    I belong to the haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe.
    My subclade is L2, which is the western form of L.
    L1 is found in India, L3 in Pakistan.
    Here is one scenario among many others :
    One thinks that the haplogroup L is dravidian (black skinned, dravidian language).
    In the 14th century BCE lived in western Iran the Elamites (black skinned, with a dravidian-like language), whose capital was Shushan (= Susa). It is probable that their haplogroup was mainly L2.
    In the Bible (Ezra 4:10) it is said that the assyrian king Ashurbanipal had exiled and deported Elamites to Samaria. A bas-relief in Louvre museum shows Ashurbanipal with deported Elamites. This can explain the presence of L2 in Syria and Lebanon. These deported mingled with the local population and became Phoenicians. That's the reason why L2 are found in Mediterranean Europe.

    Se non e vero, e bene trovato !
    hi, i was also tested as L2, i am From Caucasus, Chechnya, and it looks like we also have lot of L-s there. There is lot of interesting things about L Haplogroupe, looks like its an very special one . Well Is someone here who is also in Familytreedna database?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G-PF2822
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H3

    Ethnic group
    Sicilian
    Country: USA - Maryland



    Haplogroup L30- is that rare?

    Hello. I have been typed as having haplogroup L30, with a subgroup of G-PF2822. I'm having a very difficult time getting any info on the subgroup and I wasn't aware that the L group was rare! My ancestry is from Sicily (what a mixture that can be!) on both sides of the family. Anyone have any info that can shed some light on either L30 or G-PF2822?

    Much thanks,
    sdimaria

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    2 out of 2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by sdimaria View Post
    Hello. I have been typed as having haplogroup L30, with a subgroup of G-PF2822. I'm having a very difficult time getting any info on the subgroup and I wasn't aware that the L group was rare! My ancestry is from Sicily (what a mixture that can be!) on both sides of the family. Anyone have any info that can shed some light on either L30 or G-PF2822?

    Much thanks,
    sdimaria
    To be clear, you are not Haplogroup L, you are Haplogroup G and carry the SNP L30/PF3267/S126. On ISOGG's haplotree nomenclature, its name is G2a2b. PF2822 isn't on the ISOGG tree, so that one doesn't have a name, but FTDNA puts it as a subclade of G-L30>L141>L177>F1193>F1079>PF3252>F1671 (phew), or G2a2b2b1a at ISOGG. If you're reading Maciamo's G page, look for "L177" on the tree, as that's the most specific he goes; he calls it "G2a3b2." I suggest you read Maciamo's page for a good introduction. Wikipedia also has some information on L177 here.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    G-F872*
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H1j8

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    North-Brabant (Netherlands)
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    That's right, Sparkey: Sdimaria belongs to subhaplogroup G-L177, a subgroup of macrohaplogroup G. Because of the unreliability of L177 (3 compounds on 3 different locations in the palindromic (bad) area of the Y-chromosome), we have remplaced this SNP by the equivalent PF3359. G-PF2822 is one of the subclades of G-PF3359.
    I am the (unpaid) Y-DNA G-PF3359 haplogroup project administrator on FamilyTreeDNA. I sent you a friend request, Sdmaria. I hope that we can exchange data.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1a Z284
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    Very interesting! Did any of you take the Family Finder test at FDNA? Their new myOrigins (earlier Population Finder) might reveal where the L came from.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    Not known - O3?
    MtDNA haplogroup
    Not known - M?

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    I have been thinking about the Gedrosia effect. It is basically the Iranian cultural spread especially with Cyrus the Great Empire which included Baluchistan, Pakistan and up to Egypt and Lydia in Anatolia. Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire. Then the Parthian controlled Persia and then the Genghis Khan conquered the Khwarezm Empire that controlled Persia. So the central part of Iranian cultural was broken up thus Baluchistan (Gedrosia) seem remote from Europe. People in Elam and Indus Valley probably were rich in Haplogroups H and L. They being part of the Persian Empire may have spread around the Empire.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezm

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    At first I was going to say that African Immigration meant that L wouldn't be that rare in Europe during the next century, but then I found out you were talking about Y-dna.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L1b L-M317
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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

    23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

    23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.
    Since TL-P326 where once a union
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_LT

    and 100% of T1a-M70 is found in Early Neolithic skeletons in modern Germany, then for L-M20 to be in Europe in the Neolithic times is not a stretch

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

    23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.
    According to my research; you are probably a descendant of pre-Germanic Central Europeans. This haplogroup L bearing forefather of yours; may have merely assimilated into Germanic culture and became Germanic. And then so-on and so forth, it became an Anglo-Saxon lineage.

    (I noticed from my research; quite interesting to me, that Germanic peoples and Italians tend to carry haplogroup L as well as other Neolithic haplogroups in mass abundance from the norm of Europeans. Some clades of Haplogroup L are even found in Basques, Sardinians and people of the Caucasus.)

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    L1b L-M317
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1a8

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    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Korbyn View Post
    According to my research; you are probably a descendant of pre-Germanic Central Europeans. This haplogroup L bearing forefather of yours; may have merely assimilated into Germanic culture and became Germanic. And then so-on and so forth, it became an Anglo-Saxon lineage.

    (I noticed from my research; quite interesting to me, that Germanic peoples and Italians tend to carry haplogroup L as well as other Neolithic haplogroups in mass abundance from the norm of Europeans. Some clades of Haplogroup L are even found in Basques, Sardinians and people of the Caucasus.)
    Again, I respect your views, but none of the times look correct for a European Neolithic hypothesis. L-L595 (ISOGG 2016 = L2) is mysterious, and only found very rarely, spread across Europe including Sardinia (actually, I think one has been found in Western Asia). L-M349 (ISOGG 2016 = L1b1) is the most common clade of Y hg L found in Europe, although also found in Western Asia, where it's origin looks more likely. But I'm L-SK1414 (ISOGG 2016 = L1b2c). My line diverged away from the M349 and PH8 variants of M317 around 13,000 to 14,000 years ago. So far, it's only turned up in Southern England and SW Pakistan, with possible STR predictions also from Azores, and Iran. No where else in Europe. I likely share with the Pakistani and Iranian testers 1,000 to 3,000 years ago. The Azores STR tester does look interesting. It could even maybe suggest a Portuguese trade route between Asia and England. The other South English testers are all low marker STR, but they all descend from one Y grandfather in Southern England that lived during the 1740s, only 32 miles away from my Y grandfather at that time. I personally interpret that as most "likely" suggesting that my Y moved from the region around Iran, to Southern England, somewhere between 1,500 and 500 years ago. More test results in the future will hopefully help me to develop a better understanding.

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    Hello A Norfolk. You seem to have a logical, balanced hypothesis there!

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