Sarmatians, Serbs, Croats and I2a2

Joro said:
what about the possibility that Serbs are actually Sarmatians?
Click to expand...

Yes, there are many possibilities.
I think it may be the best to forget Serbs and Croats and focus on Sarmatians. If we understand them we will understand everything.
 
Shetop said:
How is it proven?
Click to expand...

I2a is a major subHaplogroup of Y-Haplogroup "I"

GEOGRAPHICAL DESCRIPTION OF I2A SUBCLADES
The Balkan countries likely harbored subclade I2a during the Last Glacial Maximum. Today, this branch is found distributed in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, and extends further east with Slavic-speaking populations; also extends north and west through Europe and into the British Isles.
(y)

From Ken Nordtvedt's "Story of I1b1" comes the following descriptions of the various subclades of I2a:
..."Dinaric. (I2a2, M423+) It is mainly found in eastern Europe with frequency peak in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia, near the Dinaric Alps."
..."Western I2a (I2a* P37.2+)is located more to the northwest in Germany, but appreciable amounts of it are found in the British Isles as well."
..."Isles (I2a2, M423+) is almost exclusively found in the British Isles and especially in Ireland."
....Sardinian (I2a1, M26+) accounts for about a third of Sardinia ydna, but it is also found at decent frequencies in regions of Italy and Iberia. It is also scattered up the Atlantic seaboard of Europe and into the British Isles. SNP M26+ defines this subhaplogroup of I2a but its extremely unique YCAIIa,b motif makes an SNP unnecessary for its identification." I add to this that Sardinia is not necessarily the origin of M26 but rather, probably a recipient of M26 from the mainland. SubHaplogroup I2a1 is very common in Sardinia and was likely among the first humans to populate the island about 9000 years ago. It is also found in the western Mediterranean and western Europe at lower frequencies. Unlike I2a, I2a1 is not present east of the Adriatic Sea.

Here's a link to a map showing locations of most of the current SNP's of Haplogroup I throughout Europe ..

:confused: You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 10 posts or more.

I do not have license...to link the map :mad:
 
Joro said:
well, let's put it aside for now, but Red Croats are an undeniable possibility.
Click to expand...
This Joro is really a joker. Typical serbian mentality.
 
Imperium Romanorum said:
I2a is a major subHaplogroup of Y-Haplogroup "I"

GEOGRAPHICAL DESCRIPTION OF I2A SUBCLADES
The Balkan countries likely harbored subclade I2a during the Last Glacial Maximum. Today, this branch is found distributed in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, and extends further east with Slavic-speaking populations; also extends north and west through Europe and into the British Isles.
(y)

From Ken Nordtvedt's "Story of I1b1" comes the following descriptions of the various subclades of I2a:
..."Dinaric. (I2a2, M423+) It is mainly found in eastern Europe with frequency peak in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia, near the Dinaric Alps."
..."Western I2a (I2a* P37.2+)is located more to the northwest in Germany, but appreciable amounts of it are found in the British Isles as well."
..."Isles (I2a2, M423+) is almost exclusively found in the British Isles and especially in Ireland."
....Sardinian (I2a1, M26+) accounts for about a third of Sardinia ydna, but it is also found at decent frequencies in regions of Italy and Iberia. It is also scattered up the Atlantic seaboard of Europe and into the British Isles. SNP M26+ defines this subhaplogroup of I2a but its extremely unique YCAIIa,b motif makes an SNP unnecessary for its identification." I add to this that Sardinia is not necessarily the origin of M26 but rather, probably a recipient of M26 from the mainland. SubHaplogroup I2a1 is very common in Sardinia and was likely among the first humans to populate the island about 9000 years ago. It is also found in the western Mediterranean and western Europe at lower frequencies. Unlike I2a, I2a1 is not present east of the Adriatic Sea.

Here's a link to a map showing locations of most of the current SNP's of Haplogroup I throughout Europe ..

:confused: You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 10 posts or more.

I do not have license...to link the map :mad:
Click to expand...

That is not a proof to me.
This is an eminent Russian site. So if you know Russian:
http://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,206.30.html
 
Imperium Romanorum said:
I2a is a major subHaplogroup of Y-Haplogroup "I"

GEOGRAPHICAL DESCRIPTION OF I2A SUBCLADES
The Balkan countries likely harbored subclade I2a during the Last Glacial Maximum. Today, this branch is found distributed in the Balkans and Eastern Europe, and extends further east with Slavic-speaking populations; also extends north and west through Europe and into the British Isles.
(y)

From Ken Nordtvedt's "Story of I1b1" comes the following descriptions of the various subclades of I2a:
..."Dinaric. (I2a2, M423+) It is mainly found in eastern Europe with frequency peak in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia, near the Dinaric Alps."
..."Western I2a (I2a* P37.2+)is located more to the northwest in Germany, but appreciable amounts of it are found in the British Isles as well."
..."Isles (I2a2, M423+) is almost exclusively found in the British Isles and especially in Ireland."
....Sardinian (I2a1, M26+) accounts for about a third of Sardinia ydna, but it is also found at decent frequencies in regions of Italy and Iberia. It is also scattered up the Atlantic seaboard of Europe and into the British Isles. SNP M26+ defines this subhaplogroup of I2a but its extremely unique YCAIIa,b motif makes an SNP unnecessary for its identification." I add to this that Sardinia is not necessarily the origin of M26 but rather, probably a recipient of M26 from the mainland. SubHaplogroup I2a1 is very common in Sardinia and was likely among the first humans to populate the island about 9000 years ago. It is also found in the western Mediterranean and western Europe at lower frequencies. Unlike I2a, I2a1 is not present east of the Adriatic Sea.

Here's a link to a map showing locations of most of the current SNP's of Haplogroup I throughout Europe ..

:confused: You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 10 posts or more.

I do not have license...to link the map :mad:
Click to expand...

I would say it is little bit too old information.
 
Shetop said:
I cannot understand this. According to wikipedia Sarmatians spoke Iranian:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scytho-Sarmatian_languages

Anyway I may not be a genetic Expert but I hope I will find a way to make people consider a theory of Sarmatian connection with I2a2. I am getting more and more confident that there is a lot of sense in this assumption.

And please stop posting this pointless stuff. This may be in the interest of both Croats and Serbs.
Click to expand...

I've just looked at some statistics. If Iranians came from Sarmatia(north shore of Black Sea) they should have more I compared to R1a.
Look here, find Iran almost at bottom of page.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

It shows 16.5% R1a and only 3% of I. North of Black Sea is rich in I about 30% and around 30% for R1a. If in past these numbers where sort of related in these proportions, Iran I should be around 15%. Even around 7% it still would make some sense, but 3 is very small.

Either Iranians are not from north Black Sea but more from Caspian region, or I2a2 showed in Sarmatia after Iranians left.

There is always a chance that they came from Sarmatia. Old maps are imprecise and show different things. Some of them Show Sarmatia stretching from Black Sea to Ural mountains. But it's quite improbable that Iranians came from North of Black Sea, because of huge presence of I there, and Iranians are lacking it.
 
Shetop said:
That is not a proof to me.
This is an eminent Russian site. So if you know Russian:
Click to expand...

:confused:
Russian site
:LOL:
When you ask the Russians, the whole world are Slavs...

I2a are Euopian... no Russian... and no Slavs...
 
LeBrok said:
I've just looked at some statistics. If Iranians came from Sarmatia(north shore of Black Sea) they should have more I compared to R1a.
Look here, find Iran almost at bottom of page.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

It shows 16.5% R1a and only 3% of I. North of Black Sea is rich in I about 30% and around 30% for R1a. If in past these numbers where sort of related in these proportions, Iran I should be around 15%. Even around 7% it still would make some sense, but 3 is very small.

Either Iranians are not from north Black Sea but more from Caspian region, or I2a2 showed in Sarmatia after Iranians left.

There is always a chance that they came from Sarmatia. Old maps are imprecise and show different things. Some of them Show Sarmatia stretching from Black Sea to Ural mountains. But it's quite improbable that Iranians came from North of Black Sea, because of huge presence of I there, and Iranians are lacking it.
Click to expand...

I didn't think there would be so many ideas that Sarmatians should be closely related to Iranians.
Today we have Hungarians speaking their own language group and look at their haplogroups.
My assumption is that language can be easily accepted or imposed by different reasons. As I already wrote half of Asia was speaking Iranian group of languages around 100 AC.
 
Shetop said:
Most of the ancestors of today's Russians spoke Iranian also.
I'll try to explain that to them. :)
Click to expand...

:LOL:

You are very funny man

:LOL:

There is no evidence for you fantasy.. i guess you are supporter off aryan theory of Slavs roots..

:LOL:
 
LeBrok said:
I've just looked at some statistics. If Iranians came from Sarmatia(north shore of Black Sea) they should have more I compared to R1a.
Look here, find Iran almost at bottom of page.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

It shows 16.5% R1a and only 3% of I. North of Black Sea is rich in I about 30% and around 30% for R1a. If in past these numbers where sort of related in these proportions, Iran I should be around 15%. Even around 7% it still would make some sense, but 3 is very small.

Either Iranians are not from north Black Sea but more from Caspian region, or I2a2 showed in Sarmatia after Iranians left.

There is always a chance that they came from Sarmatia. Old maps are imprecise and show different things. Some of them Show Sarmatia stretching from Black Sea to Ural mountains. But it's quite improbable that Iranians came from North of Black Sea, because of huge presence of I there, and Iranians are lacking it.
Click to expand...

There are no good maps, but I'll try to explain. The year is 500 BC:
1. There were Scythians living between Carpathians and river Don (western Scythians). My assumption is they were R1a
2. Sarmatians living between river Don and Caspian Sea
3. Scythian Sakas between Caspian Sea and China (eastern Scythians). They were also R1a

Around 300 BC Sarmatians conquered western Scythians and Sarmatia was then spread from Carpathians to Caspian Sea. That was the time R1a and I2a2 started more intensive mixing but Sarmatians who stayed more at the east preserved more I2a2. Those colud be Croats and Serbs.
 
Shetop said:
There are no good maps, but I'll try to explain. The year is 500 BC:
1. There were Scythians living between Carpathians and river Don (western Scythians). My assumption is they were R1a
2. Sarmatians living between river Don and Caspian Sea
3. Scythian Sakas between Caspian Sea and China (eastern Scythians). They were also R1a

Around 300 BC Sarmatians conquered western Scythians and Sarmatia was then spread from Carpathians to Caspian Sea. That was the time R1a and I2a2 started mixing but Sarmatians who stayed more at the east preserved more I2a2. Those colud be Croats and Serbs.
Click to expand...

You are now mixed Assyrian,s and Iranians..
Assyrians are true name for Iranians!

Assyrians are semites as Hebrews or Arabs.Their language is Aramaic , the language Jesus Christ spoke.Aramaic is similar to Hebrew.

n515182222_1131946_7036.jpg
 
Imperium Romanorum said:
You are now mixed Assyrian,s and Iranians..
Assyrians are true name for Iranians!
Click to expand...

And again... Iranians are not that relevant for this story. How did Sarmatians started speaking languages which belong to Iranian group I really don't know. That is very distant history. But who knows, genetics may give answer to that also.
 
Shetop said:
And again... Iranians are not that relevant for this story. How did Sarmatians started speaking languages which belong to Iranian group I really don't know. That is very distant history. But who knows, genetics may give answer to that also.
Click to expand...

wtf :shocked:

All the time you talking about Iranian's theory..
And now...it is not relevant...

:petrified:
 
Imperium Romanorum said:
wtf :shocked:

All the time you talking about Iranian's theory..
And now...it is not relevant...

:petrified:
Click to expand...

Yes there might be something in this theory but it is also very tendentious.
In order to answer your question we would have to answer who actually Iranians are?

And this not the place or the time. Let's please focus on Sarmatians...
 
Shetop said:
Yes there might be something in this theory but it is also very tendentious.
In order to answer your question we would have to answer who actually Iranians are?

And this not the place or the time. Let's please focus on Sarmatians...
Click to expand...

I answered you... Iranians are actually Assiryans...
But today Iranians are mixture of Arabs and Assiryans..
 
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