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Thread: Y dna haplogroup T

  1. #226
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    Do you know of any particular studies mentioning age-diversity of T in Iran or the levant? These two regions show the oldest T diversity as compared to younger Egyptian and Turkish samples but the youngest are on the Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Europe if I'm not mistaken. In other words, is there a direct proof that T is oldest on he Iranian peninsula?
    HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO ASK ME THE SAME QUESTIONS?

    will you stop if i agree with your philosophy ?
    có che un pòpoło no 'l defende pi ła só łéngua el xe prónto par èser s'ciavo

    when a people no longer dares to defend its language it is ripe for slavery.

  2. #227
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    I asked if you knew of any direct sources claiming that T has officially "the oldest" haplotypes on the Iranian peninsula. What the **** did you not understand?

  3. #228
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    Do you know of any particular studies mentioning age-diversity of T in Iran or the levant? These two regions show the oldest T diversity as compared to younger Egyptian and Turkish samples but the youngest are on the Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Europe if I'm not mistaken. In other words, is there a direct proof that T is oldest on he Iranian peninsula?
    No, you tell me

  4. #229
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    I'm always telling everyone; and then getting banned for it, sorry for my completely unprofessional attitude, don't answer that as it embarrasses me completely to lose my composure there.

  5. #230
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    Sile: Yes I'm confusing me, but no need to spew insults about me confusing everybody else. I'm brand new to this site and the field itself. Please be patient with me, but if I'm annoying you, you are free to ignore my posts.

    Despite being an amateur, I do know that I do not have any mtdna T markers and have never brought this up. When I said T on my maternal side, I meant all the males on my mother's side (uncles, cousins, etc) have T Y-DNA.

    I initially thought Adamo/John123 had L299 just like my family, hence my "out there" theories.

  6. #231
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Sile: I'm not saying T matches solely with Jews at all! Of course it's older than the 3000+ years of Jewish civilization. I think when you said 6000 years you're confusing things with the Judeo-Christian age of the Earth, according to literal interpretations of the Bible. I'm also not saying that Adamo has a "Jewish" marker, but simply that besides the conventional wisdom of a Phoenician origin to his specific family history, it's possible that his relatively recent forefathers could potentially have reached southern Italy by other means, including a Jewish background of Judean slaves brought to Rome ~2000 years ago (I believe hundreds of thousands came to Rome and most blended into the population) following the destruction of the Second Temple or Sicilian Jews in the 15th century. It could even be from Saracen pirates, it's anyone's guess.

  7. #232
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    Highly doubt it; I've tested for Jewish ancestry via ftdna recently and I have none. Saracens (Arabs) seems more likely to me. If a southern italian is positive for J2, does that make him Jewish? No, it likely makes him Ancient Greek, something that is very common in the southern half of the peninsula. T wasn't brought by Greeks that's for sure, it has a middle eastern source. Anything is possible, but I put my $ on a Phoenician non-Jewish origin.

  8. #233
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    My family name is Latinized (standard italian) whereas most members of Italo-Jewish communities have retained their Jewish surnames or culture/practices/beliefs. My family traces to the same village in Italy for some 800 years at the least on the paternal side, and the record only runs out because of distance from present times. Thus I suspect them having been there for over 1000+ years, effectively ruling out medieval Jews or Judeo-Sicilian theories. I have tested for Jewish ancestry and have something like 1% of it, which I personally won't take as being a significant sign of Jewish ancestry. Due to these factors, notably a very long presence of my ancestors on the italian peninsula, I will shoot for either a Phoenician origin or simply a product of Neolithic migrations towards southern italy. With a fully italian name that sounds quasi French (most italian names do) and no recent history of Jewish relation, I feel my ancestors were present on the italian peninsula long enough to have been heavily assimilated and latinized, probably arriving some 3,000-5,000 years ago to southern italy.

  9. #234
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    My family name is Latinized (standard italian) whereas most members of Italo-Jewish communities have retained their Jewish surnames or culture/practices/beliefs. My family traces to the same village in Italy for some 800 years at the least on the paternal side, and the record only runs out because of distance from present times. Thus I suspect them having been there for over 1000+ years, effectively ruling out medieval Jews or Judeo-Sicilian theories. I have tested for Jewish ancestry and have something like 1% of it, which I personally won't take as being a significant sign of Jewish ancestry. Due to these factors, notably a very long presence of my ancestors on the italian peninsula, I will shoot for either a Phoenician origin or simply a product of Neolithic migrations towards southern italy. With a fully italian name that sounds quasi French (most italian names do) and no recent history of Jewish relation, I feel my ancestors were present on the italian peninsula long enough to have been heavily assimilated and latinized, probably arriving some 3,000-5,000 years ago to southern italy.
    The italian government "forced" names to be italianized, up until mussolini times. They are just racists.
    One of my relative was documented in 1780 as Pelligrin .........forced name change to Pelligrini ........and now revert back a decade ago ( after much italian government delays ) back to original.
    you see more J and K in surnames when before where forced into i and ch

    Test with Doug how long your marker has been in Europe, then you can make that 3000 year claim

  10. #235
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    That's cool. How can I contact "Dougie?" XD

  11. #236
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John123 View Post
    That's cool. How can I contact "Dougie?" XD
    http://www.isogg.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_BGA_project

    When you write to him , you need to tell him your current location in the world ( where you live) and not where you came from

  12. #237
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    Thanks for explaining, you make a convincing case. I also falsely thought you had the same markers as my relatives, hence my theories.

  13. #238
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    No problem : )

  14. #239
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    my ancient tree


    green boxes are my positive SNPs

  15. #240
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    From my post #239...........the only one positive SNP which fundora has and I do not have is L455/PF5670 ( which is in the T bracket of SNP's )

    The ftdna tree is corrupted in this point in time

    The following Tree from April 2014 is the only confirmed tree............Error examples, CTS11984 appears in the T1a1 group ?, Pages00113 is a L marker, L25 is a J marker ..........and other errors



    T1a2..........L131.......[19/19] (between T1a2 and T1a2b–1:CTS2157[3/3],CTS11796[3/3],CTS12108[3/3])

    from Germany
    from East England
    from Mordovia
    from France
    .................................................. .....................

    T1a2a .........P322[2/2],P328[1/1]

    from Norway
    from Netherlands
    .............................
    T1a2b...........L446[10/10]

    from Germany
    from Italy
    from south England
    from Czech
    ................................
    T1a2b–1..............PAGES00011[1/1]

    .............................
    T1a2b-2................L1322/CTS549/PF5598


    so, Pages00011 and L1322 should be the next to step further down from the L446 branch

  16. #241
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    latest numbers for kurds and assyrians for T and others

    N=157 N=126
    KRD ASY
    7% --25% -- R1b
    30% --13% -- J2
    15% -- 2% -- R1a
    5% -- 14% -- T
    16%-- 8% -- E
    11% -- 17% -- J1
    0%-- 4% -- Q1b
    3%-- 1% -- L
    3% --1% -- I
    7% --9% -- G
    0% --2% -- F
    3% -- 4% -- R2
    1% -- 0% -- H
    1% -- 0% -- R1

  17. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I'm italian from campania province southern Italy. I also have haplogroup t (M70) lineage and my sub-group is L299.
    1.An italian man from Rofrano city, Salerno , campania , southern Italy
    2. An Assyrian Iraqi man from Nineveh , Iraq 3. A Jew from Poland. 4. A man from Lucca, Italy. 5. Ashkenazi Jew from Germany/Austria. 6. A second polish Jew. 7. Man from Urmia , Iran ( according to personal family stories he may be a Kurdish Jew). 8. An American man who's ancestors came from England for as many generations as he can remember. 9. 10. Two men from Peru and El Salvador that believe they have Sephardic Jewish roots. 11. Me. 12. You. So there you have it, 12 individuals from various different ethnic origins that are haplogroup T (M70) positive
    Hello Adamo, I am the son of that man from Lucca. I suggest that this subclade, since it is found also in Anatolia, and we are from Tuscany and Campania, is connected also with the Etruscans coming from Anatolia and inhabiting Tuscany and Campania (including the region of Rofrano, Cilento, mentioned by the Italian-American of the Genographic). Which is exactly your area of origin in Campania?

  18. #243
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    I add a quotation from an abstract citing K2-M70 as an Etruscan haplogroup found in Tuscany and Anatolia:

    A. Piazza, N. Cerutti et al : Origin of the Etruscans: novel clues from the Y chromosome lineages.
    Quote:
    ...Here we show the genetic relationships of modern Etrurians, who mostly settled in Tuscany, with other Italian, Near Eastern and Aegean peoples by comparing the Y-chromosome DNA variation in 1,264 unrelated healthy males from: Tuscany-Italy (n=263), North Italy (n=306), South Balkans (n=359), Lemnos island (n=60), Sicily and Sardinia (n=276). The Tuscany samples were collected in Volterra (n=116), Murlo (n=86) and Casentino Valley (n=61). We found traces of recent Near Eastern gene flow still present in Tuscany, especially in the archaeologically important village of Murlo. The samples from Tuscany show eastern haplogroups E3b1-M78, G2*- P15, J2a1b*-M67 and K2-M70 with frequencies very similar to thoseobserved in Turkey and surrounding areas, but significantly different from those of neighbouring Italian regions. The microsatellite haplotypes associated to these haplogroups allow inference of ancestor lineages for Etruria and Near East whose time to the most recent common ancestors is relatively recent (about 3,500 years BP) and supports a possible non autochthonous post-Neolithic signal associated with the Etruscans.


    European Journal of Human Genetics, vol. 15 supp. 1 June 2007, session C.17, pg. 19.

  19. #244
    Junior Member isatis's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Ciao guys, let me tell you, that I got a Y DNA test few years ago and I am T1a M70 (via ftdna). My father line is from Yazd (Iran) and 200 years ago my family were Zoroastrians. So you have to know that since Islam came to Iran, Zoroastrians only marriage with Zoroastrians. Also was Yazd a not important city to conquer for enemies because it's only desert. And Yazd was also a Diaspora point for all religions (sp. Jews) (google Moshee Katzav) a lot of politican of Israel are coming from Iran/Yazd. So actually this area looks very original and they people speaking more clean persian than other Iranians. Yazd and north of Kerman are closed together. Actually we have only 3 areas were the old persians resided, Shiraz, Kerman, Yazd. All other provinces of Iran are more meds/parthians/bactrians and so forth......

    my opinion:
    we have some old culture who can be T like:
    -sumerians
    -elamites
    -jiroft culture
    -kulli culture

    but you have to know, in the old levante area were Indo-Europeans not semitic people, the people know speaking semitic languages and got probable more semitic race now, but before semitic people came to this area, they were indo-europeans....

    only the semitic people came over egypt to israel, all other people were coming over horn of africa/persian gulf
    so amorites, philistines, hurrians, mitanni, kizzuwatna, hittites, arzawaians were all indoeuropeans not semitic
    especially the western sience says amorites/phonecians are semitic, iranian science they were indoeuropean, but the etymology is indoeuropean!
    but also we have a lot of questions, why the fulbes have a lot of T, and why east indians have a lot of T
    the semitic people ruled over the levante area, so they got all semitic languages
    the old persians (not iranians(after splitting)) were coming from the "hamun lake"
    we don't got enough tests from iranians/afghanians/tajiks and so on......we need more tests
    where is the connection from fulbes and east indians, where between phonecians and hittites

  20. #245
    Junior Member isatis's Avatar
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    Ciao guys, let me tell you, that I got a Y DNA test few years ago and I am T1a M70 (via ftdna). My father line is from Yazd (Iran) and 200 years ago my family were Zoroastrians. So you have to know that since Islam came to Iran, Zoroastrians only marriage with Zoroastrians. Also was Yazd a not important city to conquer for enemies because it's only desert. And Yazd was also a Diaspora point for all religions (sp. Jews) (google Moshee Katzav) a lot of politican of Israel are coming from Iran/Yazd. So actually this area looks very original and they people speaking more clean persian than other Iranians. Yazd and north of Kerman are closed together. Actually we have only 3 areas were the old persians resided, Shiraz, Kerman, Yazd. All other provinces of Iran are more meds/parthians/bactrians and so forth......

    my opinion:
    we have some old culture who can be T like:
    -sumerians
    -elamites
    -jiroft culture
    -kulli culture

    but you have to know, in the old levante area were Indo-Europeans not semitic people, the people know speaking semitic languages and got probable more semitic race now, but before semitic people came to this area, they were indo-europeans....

    only the semitic people came over egypt to israel, all other people were coming over horn of africa/persian gulf
    so amorites, philistines, hurrians, mitanni, kizzuwatna, hittites, arzawaians were all indoeuropeans not semitic
    especially the western sience says amorites/phonecians are semitic, iranian science they were indoeuropean, but the etymology is indoeuropean!
    but also we have a lot of questions, why the fulbes have a lot of T, and why east indians have a lot of T
    the semitic people ruled over the levante area, so they got all semitic languages
    the old persians (not iranians(after split)) were coming from the "hamun lake"

  21. #246
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by isatis View Post
    Ciao guys, let me tell you, that I got a Y DNA test few years ago and I am T1a M70 (via ftdna). My father line is from Yazd (Iran) and 200 years ago my family were Zoroastrians. So you have to know that since Islam came to Iran, Zoroastrians only marriage with Zoroastrians. Also was Yazd a not important city to conquer for enemies because it's only desert. And Yazd was also a Diaspora point for all religions (sp. Jews) (google Moshee Katzav) a lot of politican of Israel are coming from Iran/Yazd. So actually this area looks very original and they people speaking more clean persian than other Iranians. Yazd and north of Kerman are closed together. Actually we have only 3 areas were the old persians resided, Shiraz, Kerman, Yazd. All other provinces of Iran are more meds/parthians/bactrians and so forth......

    my opinion:
    we have some old culture who can be T like:
    -sumerians
    -elamites
    -jiroft culture
    -kulli culture

    but you have to know, in the old levante area were Indo-Europeans not semitic people, the people know speaking semitic languages and got probable more semitic race now, but before semitic people came to this area, they were indo-europeans....

    only the semitic people came over egypt to israel, all other people were coming over horn of africa/persian gulf
    so amorites, philistines, hurrians, mitanni, kizzuwatna, hittites, arzawaians were all indoeuropeans not semitic
    especially the western sience says amorites/phonecians are semitic, iranian science they were indoeuropean, but the etymology is indoeuropean!
    but also we have a lot of questions, why the fulbes have a lot of T, and why east indians have a lot of T
    the semitic people ruled over the levante area, so they got all semitic languages
    the old persians (not iranians(after split)) were coming from the "hamun lake"
    Hi

    I have always suspected Zaroastrians ( the worshippers of fire ) to have something to do with T, but I thought more around the BMAC area or the Ariana area of eastern Persia.

    I doubt very much that T was semitic because it would mean that so to must L be semitic ( LT-P326 go hand in hand for many many centuries before they split apart )

  22. #247
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    There is a little bit of an article of a T1 branch which is the only one to go to egypt from the levant ...see link

    http://www.academia.edu/3642572/Unra...Neolithisation

    This is the T-L162 line or some prefer the T1-P77 ( not my line )

  23. #248
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    I also found out I belong to T Haplogroup. I was born in Azerbaijan. According to little research I have done, this haplogroup originated in Zagros mountains. Its high incidence among Kurdish Jews, Assyrians, Lurs etc. further strengthens this argument. It is most encountered in communities that have been isolated for centuries from the outside world.
    It feels great to know other members belonging to this rare group!

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasus View Post
    I also found out I belong to T Haplogroup. I was born in Azerbaijan. According to little research I have done, this haplogroup originated in Zagros mountains. Its high incidence among Kurdish Jews, Assyrians, Lurs etc. further strengthens this argument. It is most encountered in communities that have been isolated for centuries from the outside world.
    It feels great to know other members belonging to this rare group!
    These incidences of T belong to different branches of T, and are due to separated demographic events but have nothing to do with origin. To predict origin is most important the diversity.

    You can see this diversity by looking into my phylogenetic tree work here:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png

  25. #250
    Regular Member Sile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sile View Post
    Hi

    I have always suspected Zaroastrians ( the worshippers of fire ) to have something to do with T, but I thought more around the BMAC area or the Ariana area of eastern Persia.

    I doubt very much that T was semitic because it would mean that so to must L be semitic ( LT-P326 go hand in hand for many many centuries before they split apart )
    origin of zarostrian is from gonur tepe turkmenistan

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