Y dna haplogroup T

Haplogroup T can be originally from the Persian Gulf before it was flooded 9,500 years ago !
sealevel.jpg
persiangulf.gif
http://historycycles.org/flood.html
 
I've glanced both those documents hundreds of times Sile.

My theory is that T originated between and including Zargos mountains to the caspian sea SE area ( including modern Tehran)........which is why I associated the marker with more modern tribes of Bactrian and Parthian
 
Do you know of any particular studies mentioning age-diversity of T in Iran or the levant? These two regions show the oldest T diversity as compared to younger Egyptian and Turkish samples but the youngest are on the Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Europe if I'm not mistaken. In other words, is there a direct proof that T is oldest on he Iranian peninsula?
 
Do you know of any particular studies mentioning age-diversity of T in Iran or the levant? These two regions show the oldest T diversity as compared to younger Egyptian and Turkish samples but the youngest are on the Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Europe if I'm not mistaken. In other words, is there a direct proof that T is oldest on he Iranian peninsula?

HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO ASK ME THE SAME QUESTIONS?

will you stop if i agree with your philosophy ?
 
I asked if you knew of any direct sources claiming that T has officially "the oldest" haplotypes on the Iranian peninsula. What the **** did you not understand?
 
Do you know of any particular studies mentioning age-diversity of T in Iran or the levant? These two regions show the oldest T diversity as compared to younger Egyptian and Turkish samples but the youngest are on the Arabian peninsula, Horn of Africa and Europe if I'm not mistaken. In other words, is there a direct proof that T is oldest on he Iranian peninsula?

No, you tell me
 
I'm always telling everyone; and then getting banned for it, sorry for my completely unprofessional attitude, don't answer that as it embarrasses me completely to lose my composure there.
 
Sile: Yes I'm confusing me, but no need to spew insults about me confusing everybody else. I'm brand new to this site and the field itself. Please be patient with me, but if I'm annoying you, you are free to ignore my posts.

Despite being an amateur, I do know that I do not have any mtdna T markers and have never brought this up. When I said T on my maternal side, I meant all the males on my mother's side (uncles, cousins, etc) have T Y-DNA.

I initially thought Adamo/John123 had L299 just like my family, hence my "out there" theories.
 
Sile: I'm not saying T matches solely with Jews at all! Of course it's older than the 3000+ years of Jewish civilization. I think when you said 6000 years you're confusing things with the Judeo-Christian age of the Earth, according to literal interpretations of the Bible. I'm also not saying that Adamo has a "Jewish" marker, but simply that besides the conventional wisdom of a Phoenician origin to his specific family history, it's possible that his relatively recent forefathers could potentially have reached southern Italy by other means, including a Jewish background of Judean slaves brought to Rome ~2000 years ago (I believe hundreds of thousands came to Rome and most blended into the population) following the destruction of the Second Temple or Sicilian Jews in the 15th century. It could even be from Saracen pirates, it's anyone's guess.
 
Highly doubt it; I've tested for Jewish ancestry via ftdna recently and I have none. Saracens (Arabs) seems more likely to me. If a southern italian is positive for J2, does that make him Jewish? No, it likely makes him Ancient Greek, something that is very common in the southern half of the peninsula. T wasn't brought by Greeks that's for sure, it has a middle eastern source. Anything is possible, but I put my $ on a Phoenician non-Jewish origin.
 
My family name is Latinized (standard italian) whereas most members of Italo-Jewish communities have retained their Jewish surnames or culture/practices/beliefs. My family traces to the same village in Italy for some 800 years at the least on the paternal side, and the record only runs out because of distance from present times. Thus I suspect them having been there for over 1000+ years, effectively ruling out medieval Jews or Judeo-Sicilian theories. I have tested for Jewish ancestry and have something like 1% of it, which I personally won't take as being a significant sign of Jewish ancestry. Due to these factors, notably a very long presence of my ancestors on the italian peninsula, I will shoot for either a Phoenician origin or simply a product of Neolithic migrations towards southern italy. With a fully italian name that sounds quasi French (most italian names do) and no recent history of Jewish relation, I feel my ancestors were present on the italian peninsula long enough to have been heavily assimilated and latinized, probably arriving some 3,000-5,000 years ago to southern italy.
 
My family name is Latinized (standard italian) whereas most members of Italo-Jewish communities have retained their Jewish surnames or culture/practices/beliefs. My family traces to the same village in Italy for some 800 years at the least on the paternal side, and the record only runs out because of distance from present times. Thus I suspect them having been there for over 1000+ years, effectively ruling out medieval Jews or Judeo-Sicilian theories. I have tested for Jewish ancestry and have something like 1% of it, which I personally won't take as being a significant sign of Jewish ancestry. Due to these factors, notably a very long presence of my ancestors on the italian peninsula, I will shoot for either a Phoenician origin or simply a product of Neolithic migrations towards southern italy. With a fully italian name that sounds quasi French (most italian names do) and no recent history of Jewish relation, I feel my ancestors were present on the italian peninsula long enough to have been heavily assimilated and latinized, probably arriving some 3,000-5,000 years ago to southern italy.

The italian government "forced" names to be italianized, up until mussolini times. They are just racists.
One of my relative was documented in 1780 as Pelligrin .........forced name change to Pelligrini ........and now revert back a decade ago ( after much italian government delays ) back to original.
you see more J and K in surnames when before where forced into i and ch

Test with Doug how long your marker has been in Europe, then you can make that 3000 year claim
 
Thanks for explaining, you make a convincing case. I also falsely thought you had the same markers as my relatives, hence my theories.
 


my ancient tree


green boxes are my positive SNPs
 
From my post #239...........the only one positive SNP which fundora has and I do not have is L455/PF5670 ( which is in the T bracket of SNP's )

The ftdna tree is corrupted in this point in time

The following Tree from April 2014 is the only confirmed tree............Error examples, CTS11984 appears in the T1a1 group ?, Pages00113 is a L marker, L25 is a J marker ..........and other errors



T1a2..........L131.......[19/19] (between T1a2 and T1a2b–1:CTS2157[3/3],CTS11796[3/3],CTS12108[3/3])

from Germany
from East England
from Mordovia
from France
.......................................................................

T1a2a .........P322[2/2],P328[1/1]

from Norway
from Netherlands
.............................
T1a2b...........L446[10/10]

from Germany
from Italy
from south England
from Czech
................................
T1a2b–1..............PAGES00011[1/1]

.............................
T1a2b-2................L1322/CTS549/PF5598


so, Pages00011 and L1322 should be the next to step further down from the L446 branch
 

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