Y dna haplogroup T

**torzio** · 16-09-20, 19:08

Originally Posted by dahutu

Torzio, My haplogroup is T and is in the process of further testing to determine which branch I belong to. I am quite interested to study this, do you have the up-to-date excel file : all ancient DNA? Thanks.

this site has not been updated for a year

https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/es/map...#3/47.34/46.58

Note ................Haplogroup T came out of Haplgroup LT and this group came out of Haplogroup K-M9
K-M9 has the following haplogroup.....R1a, R1b, R2, Q, N, O, L, T, M and S .............

**TaktikatEMalet** · 09-10-20, 15:59

Originally Posted by Salento

I counted only four T1a2 like us in the y T ancient list, some cool Romans, ... and even a Viking ... :)

Is T likely to have been spread by Phoenicians? Or at least T1a2

Which other y dna would they have belonged to in addition to this?

**Salento** · 09-10-20, 17:12

Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet

Is T likely to have been spread by Phoenicians? Or at least T1a2
Which other y dna would they have belonged to in addition to this?

maybe some, ... but probably not, ...

y T was already in Central Europe at least 7000+ years ago, long before the Phoenicians.

imho T is too low-rate and widespread for being spread by a particular civilization or other Haplogroups.

**torzio** · 09-10-20, 18:23

Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet

Is T likely to have been spread by Phoenicians? Or at least T1a2
Which other y dna would they have belonged to in addition to this?

very much doubt this, actually 100% wrong ................the Phoenicians began 1500BC in modern Israel ..............modern Lebanon was still Hittite lands until 1100BC and spoke Luwian language in that area, luwian in that area was the last place it disappeared and that was in 600BC

T was already in Germany, Bulgaria, Hungary in the Neolithic times....that is more than 4000 years before any Phoenicians where around ...............

**Salento** · 15-10-20, 06:41

http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

**torzio** · 17-10-20, 04:03

Originally Posted by Salento

http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

ybp of 360 for sk1480, is that correct ?..............................

**Salento** · 17-10-20, 04:27

Originally Posted by torzio

ybp of 360 for sk1480, is that correct ?..............................

according to SNP Tracker ... yes,
about:

T-SK1480 ybp 360 (1600 AD) Modern

T-BY143483 ybp 1700 (220 AD) Roman

Edit - Geno Invicta :)

Originally Posted by Salento

Geno Invicta

**torzio** · 17-10-20, 07:27

Originally Posted by Salento

according to SNP Tracker ... yes,
about:

T-SK1480 ybp 360 (1600 AD) Modern

T-BY143483 ybp 1700 (220 AD) Roman

Edit - Geno Invicta :)

1600 AD...ok ..............knowing my paternal family tree ......at that time my line was in
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fonzaso

shortly to move east to Feltre and then south to Pederobba

...............................

the BY143483 is also interesting for that time period

............................

period for Z19945 ......pannonian people

**Salento** · 11-11-20, 16:39

... in a nutshell:

y T-SK1480 - mtDNA H12a

23&me - AncestryDNA - LivDNA - NatGeo :

**torzio** · 11-11-20, 17:54

mine ................do not have living dna anymore nor natgeno

**torzio** · 23-11-20, 23:20

a newish map of T ydna by

https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...t&searchfor=T-

**torzio** · 25-11-20, 07:41

Originally Posted by torzio

a newish map of T ydna by

https://haplotree.info/maps/ancient_...t&searchfor=T-

the one sample I do not know about is from link

I4055 - Plaza Einstein, Granada, Andalusia
T1a2-L490

The period is when the vandals under Gunderic ( king of the Vandals ) and Elisa ruled southern Spain and north Africa ( morocco and algeria ) ......Gunderic eventaully invaded Rome from North africa with his vandal army

Vandals: 335-435AD

In AD 409/410 the Roman frontier was breached and the Vandals crossed the Pyrenees into the Iberian peninsula. There, they received land from the Romans in Hispania Baetica (roughly modern-day Andalucia). Other tribes who also arrived around this time were the Suevi and Alani. The Vandals crushed the Alani, killing the western Alan King Attaces. The remainder of his people subsequently appealed to the Vandal King Gunderic to accept the Alan crown.

I need to get further info on this period and sample

This below was also a leader of the Vandals in the same area...not sure how each ruler fitted

GENSERIC [Gaiseric], illegitimate son of GODEGISL King of the Vandals & his concubine --- ([400]-477). Procopius names “Gizerichus notus” as son of “Godigisclo”[17]. He succeeded his half-brother in 427 as GENSERIC King of the Vandals. Isidor's Historia Gothorum, Wandalorum, Sueborum names "Gesericus frater Gunderici" when recording that he succeeded the latter as Vandal king in Spain[18]. The Vandals crossed into North Africa en masse in May 429, although what prompted this move is unclear[19]. The Chronicon of Bishop Idatius records that “Gaisericus Rex…cum Wandalis omnibus” left “Bæticæ Provinciæ litore” and went “ad Mauritaniam et Africam” in May 429[20]. According to Iordanes, the Romans lost the province of Africa to the Vandals "per Bonifatium"[21], although this does not explain why they arrived there in the first place. The exploits in Africa of "Geiserici ducis" are described in detail in the Victoris Vitensis Historia[22]. Genseric conquered Hipona in 429, and Carthage in 439, where they established their capital. The Vandal nobles rebelled against their leader in 442[23]. Genseric sacked Rome in 455. The Eastern Roman Empire's first expedition against the Vandals in Africa in 468, led by Basiliscus, brother-in-law of Emperor Leo I, failed despite numerical superiority[24]. The Vandal kingdom dominated the western Mediterranean, with Corsica and Sardinia. King Genseric made an agreement with Odoacar King of Italy about Sicily, the latter retaining control over the island in return for yearly tribute[25]. The Victoris Tonnennensis Epsicopi Chronicon records the death in 464 of "Gensericum Wandalorum rex" after reigning for 40 years[26].

**Salento** · 25-11-20, 15:03

Originally Posted by torzio

the one sample I do not know about is from link

I4055 - Plaza Einstein, Granada, Andalusia
T1a2-L490

The period is when the vandals under Gunderic ( king of the Vandals ) and Elisa ruled southern Spain and north Africa ( morocco and algeria ) ......Gunderic eventaully invaded Rome from North africa with his vandal army

Vandals: 335-435AD

In AD 409/410 the Roman frontier was breached and the Vandals crossed the Pyrenees into the Iberian peninsula. There, they received land from the Romans in Hispania Baetica (roughly modern-day Andalucia). Other tribes who also arrived around this time were the Suevi and Alani. The Vandals crushed the Alani, killing the western Alan King Attaces. The remainder of his people subsequently appealed to the Vandal King Gunderic to accept the Alan crown.

I need to get further info on this period and sample

This below was also a leader of the Vandals in the same area...not sure how each ruler fitted

GENSERIC [Gaiseric], illegitimate son of GODEGISL King of the Vandals & his concubine --- ([400]-477). Procopius names “Gizerichus notus” as son of “Godigisclo”[17]. He succeeded his half-brother in 427 as GENSERIC King of the Vandals. Isidor's Historia Gothorum, Wandalorum, Sueborum names "Gesericus frater Gunderici" when recording that he succeeded the latter as Vandal king in Spain[18]. The Vandals crossed into North Africa en masse in May 429, although what prompted this move is unclear[19]. The Chronicon of Bishop Idatius records that “Gaisericus Rex…cum Wandalis omnibus” left “Bæticæ Provinciæ litore” and went “ad Mauritaniam et Africam” in May 429[20]. According to Iordanes, the Romans lost the province of Africa to the Vandals "per Bonifatium"[21], although this does not explain why they arrived there in the first place. The exploits in Africa of "Geiserici ducis" are described in detail in the Victoris Vitensis Historia[22]. Genseric conquered Hipona in 429, and Carthage in 439, where they established their capital. The Vandal nobles rebelled against their leader in 442[23]. Genseric sacked Rome in 455. The Eastern Roman Empire's first expedition against the Vandals in Africa in 468, led by Basiliscus, brother-in-law of Emperor Leo I, failed despite numerical superiority[24]. The Vandal kingdom dominated the western Mediterranean, with Corsica and Sardinia. King Genseric made an agreement with Odoacar King of Italy about Sicily, the latter retaining control over the island in return for yearly tribute[25]. The Victoris Tonnennensis Epsicopi Chronicon records the death in 464 of "Gensericum Wandalorum rex" after reigning for 40 years[26].

y T-L490 - mt U3a1

I4055 Dodecad K12 coordinates:

RomanVillaGranadaSpain_I4055,6.34,0.29,11.67,0.00, 35.87,20.88,0.00,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

**torzio** · 25-11-20, 21:12

Originally Posted by Salento

y T-L490 - mt U3a1

I4055 Dodecad K12 coordinates:

RomanVillaGranadaSpain_I4055,6.34,0.29,11.67,0.00, 35.87,20.88,0.00,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06

http://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/

Distance to:	Torziok12b
22.17713011	RomanVillaGranadaSpain_I4055

**torzio** · 27-11-20, 10:27

I4055 comes from an area and time of the Silingi Vandals in Iberia

..............this is the best possibility , but not the only one

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silingi

if you check the germanic map in link ...............then the Vandal confederation ( Vindili confederation ) is on the baltic sea

The silingi on the map are SE to the Burgundians , just outside the Vindili confederation ( looks like that area falls under the Suevi )

Following the fortunes of the Vandals and Suebi into the Iberian peninsula (Hispania, comprising modern Portugal and Spain) in 409,^[34] the Alans led by Respendial settled in the provinces of Lusitania and Carthaginensis.^[35] The Kingdom of the Alans was among the first Barbarian kingdoms to be founded. The Silingi Vandals settled in Baetica, the Suebi in coastal Gallaecia, and the Asding Vandals in the rest of Gallaecia. Although the newcomers controlled Hispania they were still a tiny minority among a larger Hispano-Roman population, approximately 200,000 out of 6,000,000.^[8]

**torzio** · 28-11-20, 02:54

on yfull

T-CTS2214 ....CTS2214 * FGC4681/Y4118formed 8400 ybp, TMRCA 8400 ybpinfo T-Y15127 ..Y19378/FGC40379(H) * Y15127formed 8400 ybp, TMRCA 8400 ybpinfo

id:SZ36 HUN [HU-SO]age i new
T-Y15127*

id:YF06061LBN [LB-JL]i
T-CTS2214*
T-BY31173BY31298/Y58222 * BY31188/Y49465 * BY31229/Y55797+51 SNPs formed 8400 ybp, TMRCA 300 ybpinfo
- id:YF12581USA [US-NC]
- id:YF03062USA [US-TX]

**torzio** · 30-11-20, 06:39

my father ( result below ) has I4055 in MTA ( I do not )

15.66 - I4055
Top 97 % match vs all users

**torzio** · 16-12-20, 07:58

The conclusion from the Haber paper 2019 is that our T ydna is not african at all .................it is South-East Asian

we belong to the F-M89 group

So where did the haplogroup F lineage go after having left Africa? New discoveries at FamilyTreeDNA provide some clues.

Before the new haplogroup F branches were added, the haplogroup F tree looked like this. There were known basal F lineages, but FamilyTreeDNA did not have any Big Y testers that belonged to those branches of haplogroup F and were not at that time making use of NGS results from academic studies to define tree branches.

Since then, among the thousands of new Big Y test results, a few haplogroup F lineages have been identified.

The view of the Y DNA tree at FamilyTreeDNA shows the locations of the various test results. Please note that people in the F-M89 haplogroup may simply have not tested beyond that level today, and would benefit from the Big Y test.
The Y tree now includes the new branch F-F15527 (F1) with four immediate subclades with samples from Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, and the southern border of China, as shown on this map.

Finding F1 exclusively in Southeast Asia is significant because it represents the first split of haplogroup F.
Additionally, it gives some clues about where haplogroup F was before it split between F1 and GHIJK, which represents all the haplogroups F through T.
It is also significant that they all belong to different branches, four immediate subclades of F1, dated to circa 48,000 years ago. This shows a rapid expansion where several lineages quickly diverged then and survived for tens of thousands of years until present day. It is very likely that we will discover other ancient lineages in this part of the tree as more people from this part of the world take a high coverage Y-DNA test.

**Salento** · 17-12-20, 08:51

... 48.000 years ago around Southeast Asia, ... as he went back West, y T must have battled Neanderthal, ... or dated

**Salento** · 22-12-20, 00:40

new:

Z19945 Bronze Age Italy ... to Iron Age ... to BY143483 Roman Era to SK1480 Modern Italy:

http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

**Salento** · 30-12-20, 20:55

@Torzio

... maybe SK1480 late migration related:
North to South or South to North ...

under the MyHeritage Bari genetic group I’m getting Friuli-Venezia-Giulia,
Are you getting any Apulian ???

... under 1750 - 1800, Lecce (Salento) genetic group, I’m getting Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Rhineland-Palatinate in Germany, and more,

... though in the 1600 - 1650 I’m all Italian, Lecce, Marche, Rome, ...

Lecce 1750 - 1800

Lecce 1600 - 1650

**torzio** · 30-12-20, 23:08

Sorry , No ...I do not get any apulia

The lowest in italy is Molise region for myself

so 1600-1650 is

Sossano, Veneto, Italy
and
a large area on the french-german border , between the cities of Metz and Saarbrucken Germany ( majority is in france ) place called
Saint-Avold

France

...............................

1650-1700 , I get

Asigliano Veneto, Veneto, Italy

Rovaré, Veneto, Italy

and as above in france again

.................................................. .................................................. ...............................................

I already put my fathers results in another post ...so for him its

1600-1650

Fontane, Veneto, Italy

Zernez, Grisons, Switzerland

Babenhausen, Hesse, Germany

Canizzano, Veneto, Italy

on the map he gets Hesse and only this other place in germany ......so I think the french place is only for me and might be some maternal part

Aschaffenburg

Germany

..............................................

1650-1700 there is an abruzzo for my father

Carbonera, Veneto, Italy

Fontane, Veneto, Italy

Fontanelle, Veneto, Italy

Grasciano, Abruzzo, Italy

Lancenigo, Veneto, Italy

...............................

1750-1800

Veneto, Italy

Treviso, Veneto, Italy

Belluno, Veneto, Italy

Fontanelle, Veneto, Italy

Abruzzo gone by 1750

**Salento** · 30-12-20, 23:11

... with the Chieti (Abruzzo) genetic group I also get Bolzano - South Tyrol - Italy:

**torzio** · 30-12-20, 23:21

mine

**torzio** · 30-12-20, 23:23

my guess is your maternal plays a big part

Thread: Y dna haplogroup T

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