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Thread: Y dna haplogroup T

  1. #51
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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I keep looking and re-looking at my T results on genographic project; the three action ally highest frequencies of T are Jordan (15-20%) Egypt (10-20%) Somalia ( 15-20%, a middle eastern backdraft arriving in Africa via Egypt) and Iraq with accounts varying from 7-15%. There are many T's though across Saudi Arabia, Oman, the Middle East in general and even in Europe , all at much lo wer frequencies, the % getting lower as we move away from Arabia/ Fertile Crescent, although there are bizarre higher pockets across Europe, such as Chios island, campania Italy, 10% across parts of central Italy or weird minuscule 20% zones in Austria/Bavaria, 20% on south-western Sicily, a few 5-8% hotspots on Iberian peninsula etc. but Jordan,Egypt, Iraq,Somalia, highest national levels probably; to me it originated in Jordan by the Red Sea, where it was linked to ancient Phoenicians.
    I 'm very amazed when looking at the Y-T distribution (it seems effectively we are speaking about Y DNA and not mt DNA):
    some hotpots very far one from another very often near to sea shores, except in some points - the spread suggests founder effects of maritime populations - in Europe, Jews could be important in the inland spreading -Phoenicians could be ONE of the spreaders, but the total distribution don't allow me to tell ALL Y-T were linked to Phoenicia - Switzerland is a problem, because it knew cardial and post-cardial arrivals by Rhône river from Provence and Mediterranea, and TOO surely some heavy persence of Jews so, a more precise SNPs based analysis is needed -

  2. #52
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
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    I don't think hg-T is linked to Jews, the only high frequency is found in Tras O Montes Portuguese Jews (15%). Maximum frequencies: Jordan (20%) Egypt (16%) Iraq (13%) near Anatolia (10-13% Assyrian populations) Horn of Africa (Somalia 13%) Oman (10%) also in Kurdish Jews (20%) Iraqi Jews (18%) Iranian Jews (14%) (some Jewish diasporas have it) island of Chios off turkey (20%) Samsun (Turkish village) 20% Sicily (5-17%) small pocket of southern Bavaria (20%) small spots across south-central Italy can have up to 10%, Balearics islands off Iberian coast (15%); really weirdly distributed haplogroup, my genographic results are my reference for all this by the way, T may have originated, in my opinion, either on the iranian plateau, Jordan right by the Red Sea near Egypt, or maybe even near northern Saudi Arabia.

  3. #53
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    To me personally, haplogroup T is linked to the Phoenicians, as it is found in southwestern Sicily, Ibiza, Corsica, the Egyptian coast; all areas where Phoenician maritime expansion took place. The ancestors of Phoenicians where the Canaanites. The Persians account is that the Phoenicians originally came from the erythrean sea (modern Persian gulf, eastern Arabia.) near Bahrain or east-central Arabia southern Iraq southwestern Iran region (Persian gulf). The Greeks for example, spoke of two islands Tylos and Aradus (modern day Bahrain) which boasted they where the motherland of the semitic Phoenicians and held ancient relics of Phoenician/Canaanite temples. The Phoenicians of Tyre in particular had long maintained their ancient Persian gulf origins. They moved from the Persian gulf region towards the Levantine coast near modern day Lebanon/Jordan.

  4. #54
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    3 out of 3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I 'm very amazed when looking at the Y-T distribution (it seems effectively we are speaking about Y DNA and not mt DNA):
    some hotpots very far one from another very often near to sea shores, except in some points - the spread suggests founder effects of maritime populations - in Europe, Jews could be important in the inland spreading -Phoenicians could be ONE of the spreaders, but the total distribution don't allow me to tell ALL Y-T were linked to Phoenicia - Switzerland is a problem, because it knew cardial and post-cardial arrivals by Rhône river from Provence and Mediterranea, and TOO surely some heavy persence of Jews so, a more precise SNPs based analysis is needed -
    Originally T came from K2 which came from K. K came from south Asia, of which the oldest K9 went to south-east Asia and Australia. From south-asia K2-M184 went and settled Iran and parts of Pakistan and Afghanistan. M70 a branch of M184 was created (as per these scientists) in the Pamir Knot area, from there the M70 branched out north of the Caspian sea, and south of the Caspian sea. This southern branch arrived in Kurdish/Assyrian areas...from there it went to Europe.
    The northern branch went to estonia ( some say cimmeranians had some T ) then gotland, sweden, norway and the faroe and orkney islands. ( there is a paper on this )

    The funny thing is that the Greeks say the Dorians came from Pamir in the Himalayas , they migrated along the south Anatolian coast and settled in Samos, Chios, Rhodes, Crete, south Peloponnese and Corfu.......they all hold T ydna haplogroup. The came about 1200BC ( bronze-age migrations )
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamir_Mountains
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  5. #55
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    Zanipolo you deserve a medal for that post, awesome.

  6. #56
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    So T originated in the Afghanistan/Tajikistan region?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    So shouldn't more tests be done on Tajiks, afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis? If this is where T first came from, is there any data on these regions or is data especially scarce over there.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    According to my genographic project, hg T is linked to emirian and kebaran culture of the levant (Syria,Palestine,Lebanon) area during the upper/middle Paleolithic.

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    Does anyone have info on T1a1 (L299) also known as T-M320 in particular? It's downstream from M70 (T1) and T1a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    So T originated in the Afghanistan/Tajikistan region?
    Tajiks are persian and not afghan people, basically NE persian

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    So Tajiks and Persians but not afghans?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    This is my genographic description for M70: age of haplogroup, mutation took place: 33,750-19,250 years ago.This step of your paternal ancestors journey took place in the fertile climate of west Asia during the upper Paleolithic. Early members of this lineage where hunter gatherers who took part in Emirian culture and other advances in weapons technology. From west Asia, this lineage spread to north Africa, South Asia, and Europe. Today, it is a significant part of the male lineages of west Asia. It is around 21% of male lineages in Jordan. It and several of its subtypes are present in Jewish diaspora groups such as Iraqi Jews and Kurdish Jews. In North Africa, it is 6 to 7% of male Egyptian lineages and about 7% of the male Ethiopian population. In South Asia, it is 53% of the isolated Bauris Indian male lineages and 7 to 11 % of Gond indian male lineages. In Europe, this branch contributes to between 5 and 17% of Sicilian male lineages. It is about 5% of male lineages on mainland Italy. It varies between 3 and 24% of male lineages across different regions of Germany. (Then there are photos associated with M70) they say: (photo #1): Some 20% of all Jordanian men are members of the M70 lineage which arose in West Asia during the fertile Upper Paleolithic and remains common here. (Photo#2): Many groups of the Jewish diaspora, including Iraqi Jews and Kurdish Jews, such as this man, share the M70 lineage. (Photo#3): This Iraqi man may be part of the M70 lineage which rose among hunter gatherers in the fertile climes of west Asia. From there, other branches spread to South Asia, North Africa and Europe. (Photo#4): This Baghdad girl lives in an ancient cradle of civilizations. The fertile lands of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers spawned early agriculture and legendary cities like Babylon. (Photo#5): Boys from Kashan, Iran live in an ancient centre of human civilization. The nearby site of Tepe Sialk includes evidence of human settlement 8,000 years ago.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Then there is another description for my L299 subclade: age: 26,500-14,500 years ago: This man and his earliest descendants lived in western Asia during the time of Kebaran culture. The wide-traveling hunter-gatherers of west Asia were some of the earliest groups to use and collect cereal grains. The fertile land of the Levant and increasing utilization of grains set the stage for the Neolithic revolution. Though the Neolithic revolution did not push this lineage to dominance as it did others, the new agriculture-based settlements did help it expand across west Asia, and into North Africa, Anatolia, and Southern Europe. Today, the highest frequencies of the lineage are in Jordan (16%) Egypt (16%) Somalia (14%) and Iraq (13%). It is present throughout West Asia, and is about 8% of the Druze male population. Toward Anatolia, it is between 10 and 13% of male Assyrian populations. It is present in England and the Netherlands at trace frequencies of less than 1%. It and its descendant branches are present in Jewish diaspora populations. That's my L299 description, is it just re-stating M70, or describing L299 in particular, I do not know, although this was written as information of specifically L299, the T1a1 subclade of M70 (T1).

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    And I also posted the heatmap a while ago showing Egypt, north Saudi Arabia Jordan and parts of Iraq highlighted in 10% yellow areas (10-15% of males in those regions are T).my theory is that they haven't done enough tests on central Asians ( afghans, Tajiks, n-e Iranians) to find the real "power core" of T, its probably in Afghanistan or some war-torn/risky area of Tajikistan, that's probably the home of T.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    If hg T is in fact linked to emirian and later kebaran culture as my geno 2.0 results tell me, then they are linked to a culture that is named after Kebara cave (northern Israel) and that encompasses parts of the Sinai peninsula , Syria,Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine near the Red Sea.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    From what I understand T came from K that came from F. F originated somewhere in southern Iraq, one branch migrated to north-central Iran (where K originated.) then K migrated to Afghanistan. That is where T originated. Then one branch went through India to Southeast Asia and into Australia, another went above the Caspian Sea to Russia and Estonia and another branch went under the Caspian Sea from Afghanistan to Iran to Iraq Syria and the levant right by the Red Sea and Mediterranean ( near Jordan/Egypt).

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    From what I understand T came from K that came from F. F originated somewhere in southern Iraq, one branch migrated to north-central Iran (where K originated.) then K migrated to Afghanistan. That is where T originated. Then one branch went through India to Southeast Asia and into Australia, another went above the Caspian Sea to Russia and Estonia and another branch went under the Caspian Sea from Afghanistan to Iran to Iraq Syria and the levant right by the Red Sea and Mediterranean ( near Jordan/Egypt).
    sounds good

    On wiki link T-M184 ,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184
    the tested people in regards to where they are from, seems to be too old. I have 9 x 3 to 7 step matches with T people from the British isles, I have 4 people with step matches of 4 to 9 with Germans and poles and I have 3 people with step matches of 2 to 7 in Nordic and Finn lands.............all are missing.
    I also have 2 matches in central Italy, 4 matches in western Austria and Swiss lands, 3 matches in the lowlands, the USA matches I do not count but assume they are Irish or welsh migration of early settlement to the new world.
    These T people do appear on the semargl site
    http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/

    even stranger is that I have no South American matches......clearly a lack of iberian markers
    Last edited by zanipolo; 26-05-13 at 00:57.

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    1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    So Tajiks and Persians but not afghans?
    yes tajiks are persian/modern iranian and not afghans

    Most of Tajikistan's population belongs to the Persian-speaking Tajik ethnic group, who share language, culture and history with Afghanistan and Iran. Once part of the Samanid Empire, Tajikistan became a constituent republic of the Soviet Union in the 20th century, known as the Tajik Soviet Socialist Republic (Tajik SSR). Mountains cover over 90% of this Central Asian republic.

    Russian geneolists are trying to make T a central-asian group and not a west-Asian group...this has been talked about since 2009.

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    Well it's still present in west Asian populations such as Jordanians, but it does in fact seem to originate near Afghanistan/Tajikistan...you are T1a2b, that has an "Atlantic ocean" distribution? Tell me about that, I don't get it, and how could I know better what my subgroup (L299/T1a1) is from? The guy with the email you gave me never answered back lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by rene View Post
    hi
    i know my paternal linage back to 1730 from city of shiraz from a lore tribe called zand and i found i have Y HG T.
    i wonder which ancient peoplein iran or mesoptamie had this kind of Y HG before arrival of aryans with R1a y hg ?
    regards

    Please be more precise. The Zand is a Laki Kurdish (small Lor) tribe. You are mixing them up with the Bakhtiyaris (Big Lors).

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Well it's still present in west Asian populations such as Jordanians, but it does in fact seem to originate near Afghanistan/Tajikistan...you are T1a2b, that has an "Atlantic ocean" distribution? Tell me about that, I don't get it, and how could I know better what my subgroup (L299/T1a1) is from? The guy with the email you gave me never answered back lol
    the guy...hmm......its been 36 days since he has been on 23andme site. I will see what I can find out for you.

    my T1a2b is the northern migrational route people that the project and genealogist state for me. remember that the north of the danube river in the balkans is classified northern, the alps are northern and then from rhone river west side to the atlantic is northern. Unsure on iberia though.
    Whats to tell..
    PF places me on the french-italian border
    BGA places me on the austrian-italian border
    ISOGG states me as eastern alps
    Doug , says ancient northern yugoslavia area ( i guess illyrian)
    T project still undecided , but northern european
    ALPGEN project state me as Venetic-adriatic
    DNAtribes states me as east austrian but beginning in north caucasus on the black sea.
    eurogenes guy - on the swiss-italian-austrian border

    I used to believe in admixture results , but they are only partly correct, the chromosome results as per some from above seem better

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    Did your T go north of Caspian Sea to north Europe or south through Middle East,

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    Alright I appreciate it : )

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Did your T go north of Caspian Sea to north Europe or south through Middle East,
    I was told, north of caspian and then along the danube river ............but are they sure

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    Considering that Rene is a Feyli Kurd ( Kurds that live between extreme eastern Iraq and extreme western Iran) maybe this group of 6 million Feyli Kurds are high in the T marker. They live in Baghdad, iraq's diyala province, Khanaqin and mandali, and across the border in Iran manly in Luristan, kermanshah and Ilam provinces. Some believe they are integral to the Kurdish populatin of Iraq, others say they are much more similar to iranian people's such as Lurs. They seem to inhabit the area on the Wikipedia T map that has 9-13% T. The Zand where Feyli Kurds and they had anciently set up in Shiraz.

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