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Thread: Y dna haplogroup T

  1. #76
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
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    Ancient Shiraz is intimately linked to the ancient Elamites, and it is was the capital of both the Zand dynasty and all of Persia for a brief time.....where hg T possibly Persian/iranian elites?

  2. #77
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Ancient Shiraz is intimately linked to the ancient Elamites, and it is was the capital of both the Zand dynasty and all of Persia for a brief time.....where hg T possibly Persian/iranian elites?
    No one denied that ancient Elamite homeland is in the province of Fars but the Elamites stretched also in Southeastern ends of Kurdistan into the province of Ilam, where Laki speaking Kurds reside and which was former known as Lakestan. It is well documented that Kurdish tribes lived all the way into the Pars province. Most of them being nomadic Lors. And there are still Kurds in Shiraz.

    The Zand Dynasty was actually of Laki (small Lors) Kurdish origin.

    Die Zand-Dynastie war ein iranisches[1] Herrscherhaus, das 1750–1794 in Persien regierte und aus dem kurdischen Stamm der Lak hervorging.[2]
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zand-Dynastie

    Use google Translater.


    I also knew a Kurd from Ilam province who is also yDNA T funnily enough he looks very Bud Spencer like.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Considering that Rene is a Feyli Kurd ( Kurds that live between extreme eastern Iraq and extreme western Iran) maybe this group of 6 million Feyli Kurds are high in the T marker. They live in Baghdad, iraq's diyala province, Khanaqin and mandali, and across the border in Iran manly in Luristan, kermanshah and Ilam provinces. Some believe they are integral to the Kurdish populatin of Iraq, others say they are much more similar to iranian people's such as Lurs. They seem to inhabit the area on the Wikipedia T map that has 9-13% T. The Zand where Feyli Kurds and they had anciently set up in Shiraz.
    Well if Rene is a Feyli (Lak) Kurd than he should mentioned that. Since he is a Feyli from Sweden now I am sure he is the person I am talking about He looks kinda Bud Spencer.


    I don't know if he remembers me.


    Well I know a few Feylis and most of the are a blend of R1b, R1a and some J1* + T.


    Look you seem to mix things up. "Iranian people" is a general term collecting all Iranian speaking ethnicities and is not only bound to the boundaries of modern state Iran. Ossetians, Tajiks and Pashtuns are also Iranians by wider sense.

    The Lors just a century ago where all considered as major Kurdish tribe. And it is well documented in Iranian and as well Kurdish source of the first century to 16 century AD. In the Serefname written in 16 century Sherefhan el Betlisi mentions the Lors as a major tribe of the Kurds.


    throughout the centuries there was a "brotherwar" between the two Lor groups (big and small Lors). The small Lors preserved there original language which is in fact part of the Northwest Irannian group and clustered under Kurdish dialects.

    The Kurdish language has two main groups of the Northwestern branch one bigger the Kurdish proper and a secondary smaller Goran-Dimli group.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Tree_v2.0.png

    There under the larger Kurdish proper bough you will see Laki.

    unfortunately the big Lors through geographic proximity to Persian speakers where influenced by them and through time started slightly turning more and more into the Southwestern linguistic direction. Today they are classified linguistically into the Southwestern branch but distinct to both Persian and Kurdish.
    Though their traditions and clothings are undeniably still Kurdish. They have the typical Kurdish circle dances on weddings while Persians/Iranians do not know this.

    the Laks are even more clear, they speak, cloth and dance Kurdish.

    Of course it is in the interests of the Iranian regime to convince them the opposite though its clear as water what they are.

  4. #79
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    I don't look very bud spencer. Lol

  5. #80
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    Haplogroup T seems to have a "high" in the ancient Elamite region of southwestern Iran. ( on maps anyways) and this is also not too far from where our shirazi friend originates.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I don't look very bud spencer. Lol

    I meant him "Rene" not you

  7. #82
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    I know but I'm in hg T also so I thought you where talking about us T's.

  8. #83
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    I think hg T is linked especially to bakhtiaris from bakhtiaris province near ilam, the southwestern corner of Iran touching extreme southeastern Iraq. They speak a Lurish language. They live in parts of Lorestan, khuzestan and Isfahan provinces. They are descendants of "Fereydun" a national iranian hero in ancient Persian religion/mythology such as Zoroastrianism.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I don't look very bud spencer. Lol
    Bud Spencer (born Carlo Pedersoli; 31 October 1929) is an Italian actor
    Spencer was born in Santa Lucia, a historical rione of the city of Naples

    Terence Hill (born Mario Girotti; 29 March 1939) is an Italian actor.
    Hill was born in Venice, Italy.

    an unlikely pair who made a nmae for themselves
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by zanipolo View Post
    Bud Spencer (born Carlo Pedersoli; 31 October 1929) is an Italian actor
    Spencer was born in Santa Lucia, a historical rione of the city of Naples

    Terence Hill (born Mario Girotti; 29 March 1939) is an Italian actor.
    Hill was born in Venice, Italy.

    an unlikely pair who made a nmae for themselves
    yeah I remember the 2 most famous Italian duet.

    Ciccio and Franco

    Buldozer and trinita, bud spencer terence hill.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  11. #86
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    Amazing : )

  12. #87
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    I recently found out I'm P77, a sub-group of T that runs high in Kurdish, Iraqi, iranian and Yemenite Jews. It is speculated that T1a1 either originated In Canaan and then with the Jewish exile to Assyrian/Babylonian lands was absorbed by other mesopotamians or maybe it originated among the Jews when they had already arrived in Mesopotamia and it originated there, either way P77 seems to be high in Iraqi Jews, Kurdish Jews and Jordanians. What do you guys think?

  13. #88
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    Did P77 originate in Canaan or in north Mesopotamia?

  14. #89
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    Where are your closest matches found Adamo?

  15. #90
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    I don't know.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I don't know.
    ?

    who did you test with?

    I have tested with Ftdna of which I have 26 matches between step 2 and step 4
    13 from british isles
    4 from germany
    4 from italy
    3 from baltic area (pomeranian, estonia, lithuania)
    1 slovenian
    1 norwegian

    I presume this testing place also did your mtDna


    If you went with 23andme, they are just as good

    Natgeno....err......well they find a lot of SNPs

    genomes ....unsure but I think you can transfer to ftdna

  17. #92
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    Yeah but I have to pay ftdna thing, I would love to know with who P77+ or L299+ is clustered with, European or Assyrian samples, I wonder.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Yeah but I have to pay ftdna thing, I would love to know with who P77+ or L299+ is clustered with, European or Assyrian samples, I wonder.
    what ever search engine you use, you need to read up on advanced searching. you need to find a way, only you know your line.

    I found these in a few minutes - all L299+

    -ftdna 231809 surname = philipps from devon, cornwall, England
    -ftdna 97565 from wales
    -ftdna 244570 from ghana ( portuguese descent)
    -ftdna 156487 surname = metaxopoulos greece

    E8011 from Cantabria spain
    E5174 surname Al-khalifa from Saudi Arabia
    and one other , a high priest from the Quaraish tribe - I do not know where that is

    Semaghl (russian site) has 2 only, both in mexico from Spanish hereditary

  19. #94
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    Yeah difficult to find extensive information on my subclade....

  20. #95
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    The haplotypes of the 35 individuals belonging to Haplogroup T are provided in Supplementary Table 4. The distribution of haplotypes within Haplogroup T-M184 illustrated in an MJ network (Supplementary Figure 4) depicts a positioning of clusters composed almost entirely of Levantine individuals in the center of the diagram, with all other groups emanating from this area. This potentially points toward an origin of these haplotypes in the Levant, a supposition that is further supported by the observation of high genetic diversity in the network among levantine individuals within haplogroup T-M184 in the Levant. Time estimates for T-M184 individuals (Supplementary Table 5) corroborate the supposition that the lineage originated in the Levant and entered the Armenian Plateau at a later time, as the dates generated from Levantine (6.2±1.8 kya using Ravid-Amir and Rosset34) and Iranian (5.9±1.3 kya) individuals are older than those yielded from Turkey (5.7±1.2 kya), Sasun (5.0±1.2 kya) and the remaining three Armenian populations (average 3.9±1.0 kya). According to this study, T has highest age and diversity in the levant.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    The haplotypes of the 35 individuals belonging to Haplogroup T are provided in Supplementary Table 4. The distribution of haplotypes within Haplogroup T-M184 illustrated in an MJ network (Supplementary Figure 4) depicts a positioning of clusters composed almost entirely of Levantine individuals in the center of the diagram, with all other groups emanating from this area. This potentially points toward an origin of these haplotypes in the Levant, a supposition that is further supported by the observation of high genetic diversity in the network among levantine individuals within haplogroup T-M184 in the Levant. Time estimates for T-M184 individuals (Supplementary Table 5) corroborate the supposition that the lineage originated in the Levant and entered the Armenian Plateau at a later time, as the dates generated from Levantine (6.2±1.8 kya using Ravid-Amir and Rosset34) and Iranian (5.9±1.3 kya) individuals are older than those yielded from Turkey (5.7±1.2 kya), Sasun (5.0±1.2 kya) and the remaining three Armenian populations (average 3.9±1.0 kya). According to this study, T has highest age and diversity in the levant.
    from the Assyrian project

    N=107 06/10/13
    24.3% R1b
    18.7% J1
    15.9% T
    13.1% J2
    8.4% E1b1b1
    8.4% G
    4.7% R2a
    2.8% Q1b
    1.9% R1a
    0.9% F
    0.9% L

    as of today.

    Checking on Cappodocian line as well for you.

    basically this is northern Levant, aleppo area, start of the ancient silk road to China

  22. #97
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    Woah! 16% hg T? Assyrian project, where is this???

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Woah! 16% hg T? Assyrian project, where is this???
    talk to one of the guys in the email

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...t/default.aspx

    only 1 x T1a2b
    1 x the new T1a3

    all the rest are your type

  24. #99
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    I know I'm T1a1, don't know if T1a1a or T1a1b or if in an Assyrian cluster or not.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I know I'm T1a1, don't know if T1a1a or T1a1b or if in an Assyrian cluster or not.
    write your numbers ( DYS ) down and I see what I can do

    the site does split into different groupings

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