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Thread: Y dna haplogroup T

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    Y dna haplogroup T

    hi
    i know my paternal linage back to 1730 from city of shiraz from a lore tribe called zand and i found i have Y HG T.
    i wonder which ancient peoplein iran or mesoptamie had this kind of Y HG before arrival of aryans with R1a y hg ?
    regards

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a1a3 (T-PF7443)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H

    Country: Italy



    I'm italian from campania province southern Italy. I also have haplogroup t (M70) lineage and my sub-group is L299. Those are the paternal haplogroup results I received from the genographic project 2.0. I'm one of those Italians that has jet black hair and olive skin so naturally I always suspected I had some form of Assyrian or Mesopotamian influence in my blood. I was surprised that I don't harbour the J-M172 lineage (haplogroup j2) as this is the typical northern middle-eastern Fertile Crescent haplogroup,( it is also found in 20-25% of italian men.) instead, belonging to hg T this is MUCH rarer ( 4% of Italians). Information on our haplogroup is as scarce as the lineage itself but according to information given to me upon having received my results, haplogroup T is found in 20% of Jordanian men, up to 16% of Egyptian men in certain regions, 5 to 17% of Sicilian males, 13% of Iraqi men, and it is quite prevalent in Mizrahim Jews ( middle eastern Jews) such as Iraqi Jews (18%) iranian Jews (14%) and Kurdish Jews (22%) It is also found in 10 to 13% of Assyrian males near Anatolia. In Europe, it is found in a few isolated hotspots: the Balearic islands off the coast of Spain (16%) , Italy (4%) Sicily (5-17%) and small isolated regions of Germany (3-24%). Surprisingly, Somalia and Ethiopia both have about 14% haplogroup T but I can confirm from my own Assyrian/ Mesopotamian looks that it did not originate there; it must have arrived there from the Middle East. There are also a few tiny hotspots in India belonging to Bauris and Gond Indians but there too the haplogroup T arrived from a different source location, the Middle East. What is so confusing about this lineage is its patchy distribution ad it's low percentages all across the map even in it's middle eastern hotspots of 10-15%. Thus it is difficult to discover EXACTLY where it first originated or whether it is a Jewish diaspora genetics or rare middle eastern blood. I have never seen a study say this but I can 100% confirm that JORDAN males have , on a national level, approximately 21% haplogroup T thanks to my genographic project 2.0 "results" presentation. Other people in the project that HAVE haplogroup T and that was placed very similar to me in the "Our Story" section was :
    1.An italian man from Rofrano city, Salerno , campania , southern Italy
    2. An Assyrian Iraqi man from Nineveh , Iraq 3. A Jew from Poland. 4. A man from Lucca, Italy. 5. Ashkenazi Jew from Germany/Austria. 6. A second polish Jew. 7. Man from Urmia , Iran ( according to personal family stories he may be a Kurdish Jew). 8. An American man who's ancestors came from England for as many generations as he can remember. 9. 10. Two men from Peru and El Salvador that believe they have Sephardic Jewish roots. 11. Me. 12. You. So there you have it, 12 individuals from various different ethnic origins that are haplogroup T (M70) positive

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I'm italian from campania province southern Italy. I also have haplogroup t (M70) lineage and my sub-group is L299. Those are the paternal haplogroup results I received from the genographic project 2.0. I'm one of those Italians that has jet black hair and olive skin so naturally I always suspected I had some form of Assyrian or Mesopotamian influence in my blood. I was surprised that I don't harbour the J-M172 lineage (haplogroup j2) as this is the typical northern middle-eastern Fertile Crescent haplogroup,( it is also found in 20-25% of italian men.) instead, belonging to hg T this is MUCH rarer ( 4% of Italians). Information on our haplogroup is as scarce as the lineage itself but according to information given to me upon having received my results, haplogroup T is found in 20% of Jordanian men, up to 16% of Egyptian men in certain regions, 5 to 17% of Sicilian males, 13% of Iraqi men, and it is quite prevalent in Mizrahim Jews ( middle eastern Jews) such as Iraqi Jews (18%) iranian Jews (14%) and Kurdish Jews (22%) It is also found in 10 to 13% of Assyrian males near Anatolia. In Europe, it is found in a few isolated hotspots: the Balearic islands off the coast of Spain (16%) , Italy (4%) Sicily (5-17%) and small isolated regions of Germany (3-24%). Surprisingly, Somalia and Ethiopia both have about 14% haplogroup T but I can confirm from my own Assyrian/ Mesopotamian looks that it did not originate there; it must have arrived there from the Middle East. There are also a few tiny hotspots in India belonging to Bauris and Gond Indians but there too the haplogroup T arrived from a different source location, the Middle East. What is so confusing about this lineage is its patchy distribution ad it's low percentages all across the map even in it's middle eastern hotspots of 10-15%. Thus it is difficult to discover EXACTLY where it first originated or whether it is a Jewish diaspora genetics or rare middle eastern blood. I have never seen a study say this but I can 100% confirm that JORDAN males have , on a national level, approximately 21% haplogroup T thanks to my genographic project 2.0 "results" presentation. Other people in the project that HAVE haplogroup T and that was placed very similar to me in the "Our Story" section was :
    1.An italian man from Rofrano city, Salerno , campania , southern Italy
    2. An Assyrian Iraqi man from Nineveh , Iraq 3. A Jew from Poland. 4. A man from Lucca, Italy. 5. Ashkenazi Jew from Germany/Austria. 6. A second polish Jew. 7. Man from Urmia , Iran ( according to personal family stories he may be a Kurdish Jew). 8. An American man who's ancestors came from England for as many generations as he can remember. 9. 10. Two men from Peru and El Salvador that believe they have Sephardic Jewish roots. 11. Me. 12. You. So there you have it, 12 individuals from various different ethnic origins that are haplogroup T (M70) positive

    Hi , I am T as well

    firstly, the terminology m70 is no longer used as the base, its M184
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_T-M184

    Pre 2008 it was K2

    Have you done any SNP tests?
    I have I am L446 positive which is ( as per link)
    T1a2b (L446) Found in Northwest Europe and eastern Alps.

    I have tested for the palestine, jordanian and druze markers...all negative. so I checked with the
    Armenian ftdna project site .......no luck ( although its a good site).

    I only have matches with british people ( usually irish, cornish and scots ), central alpine people ( north italians, austrians and swiss ), some germans and a norwegian.

    Also...check Isogg site ...it has some updates on SNP changes

    And contact Mr. Henson at T project..he is helpful.

    my chromosones via doug McDonald Audna admixture tests - below



    Uploaded with ImageShack.us
    Father's Mtdna H95a1
    Grandfather Mtdna T2b24
    Great Grandfather Mtdna T1a1e
    GMother paternal side YDna R1b-S8172
    Mother's YDna R1a-Z282

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    All I know currently is that I am L299 positive which would put me in T1a1 ( found in northern Anatolia and Germany). What I have been wondering is where does this haplogroup originate? Is it a Jewish genetic marker? Is it very rare or have geneticists not quite yet analyzed samples from the correct places to find other hotspots? Is it true as stated in my genographic 2.0 results that 21% of Jordanian men have haplogroup T? I haven't come across any studies claiming this and information on the exact origin point of this lineage is so scarce that it is depressing to be a member of it lol... It seems to me as though every time Jewish people are involved the percentage goes higher for example Kurds and Iraqis don't have much haplogroup T but when we start talking of Kurdish JEWS and Iraqi JEWS its like an extra 10% of haplogroup T bringing it to 18-20%

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    All I know currently is that I am L299 positive which would put me in T1a1 ( found in northern Anatolia and Germany). What I have been wondering is where does this haplogroup originate? Is it a Jewish genetic marker? Is it very rare or have geneticists not quite yet analyzed samples from the correct places to find other hotspots? Is it true as stated in my genographic 2.0 results that 21% of Jordanian men have haplogroup T? I haven't come across any studies claiming this and information on the exact origin point of this lineage is so scarce that it is depressing to be a member of it lol... It seems to me as though every time Jewish people are involved the percentage goes higher for example Kurds and Iraqis don't have much haplogroup T but when we start talking of Kurdish JEWS and Iraqi JEWS its like an extra 10% of haplogroup T bringing it to 18-20%
    currently this marker is classified west-asian......basically old Persia.
    The russians are talking about it being re-classified central-asian ...caspian sea area

    It is not jewish , only some alleles are noted jewish and these are in nearly all haplogroups.....I have no jewishness ( tested)

    here is more info
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...x?section=news

    armenians and ancient assyrians have a lot of T

    Jews stand out because they can afford the tests. but since I joined project T over a year ago , the numbers have doubled, usually more northern european and americans are the extra numbers , again costs.

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    So I guess even though haplogroup T is found in maybe 10-13% of Assyrians, 10% of Druze people, 8% of Armenians, OVERALL it is found abundantly in a large number of these men from West Asia. This is in a sense the global maximum. It seems less to be found in entire populations and more to be found in certain isolated Middle East communities. Where the haplogroup T men overwhelmed or destroyed by haplogroup J1-J2 men and other more common Middle East lineages? Where their levels ALWAYS this low even in the " highest frequencies" of the Middle East? What about Jordan with its massive 21% of T, why all the T in this isolated pocket? Could this be the radiation point, the home of T? I know that T got to the Horn of Africa (Ethiopia and Somalia) from Egypt (and then subsequently to Fulbe of Cameroon from Horn of Africa) and it got to high percentage but small isolated pockets of India from the Iranian peninsula but can Jordan be the home of all T? I believe so but this is conflicting because the sister haplogroup of T , haplogroup L only significantly overlaps with T ( even if at, again, low percentages) in Iran thus symbolizing this may be the origin point of T , In Iran, a little more far out from the central Fertile Crescent (Iraq). This is evident if I look at maps of both haplogroup T and L, they overlaps in Iran, albeit, even if at unsatisfiyingly low percentages

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    So I guess even though haplogroup T is found in maybe 10-13% of Assyrians, 10% of Druze people, 8% of Armenians, OVERALL it is found abundantly in a large number of these men from West Asia. This is in a sense the global maximum. It seems less to be found in entire populations and more to be found in certain isolated Middle East communities. Where the haplogroup T men overwhelmed or destroyed by haplogroup J1-J2 men and other more common Middle East lineages? Where their levels ALWAYS this low even in the " highest frequencies" of the Middle East? What about Jordan with its massive 21% of T, why all the T in this isolated pocket? Could this be the radiation point, the home of T? I know that T got to the Horn of Africa (Ethiopia and Somalia) from Egypt (and then subsequently to Fulbe of Cameroon from Horn of Africa) and it got to high percentage but small isolated pockets of India from the Iranian peninsula but can Jordan be the home of all T? I believe so but this is conflicting because the sister haplogroup of T , haplogroup L only significantly overlaps with T ( even if at, again, low percentages) in Iran thus symbolizing this may be the origin point of T , In Iran, a little more far out from the central Fertile Crescent (Iraq). This is evident if I look at maps of both haplogroup T and L, they overlaps in Iran, albeit, even if at unsatisfiyingly low percentages
    I agree with Iran ( persia) that what I said as its birthplace. The african part is the so call back to africa theory which i placed a link on another T thread. The east african part for T was explained by someone, that it refers to Arab slave trade of africans in the 11th century onwards, there seems to be a lot of Gedrosian ( east iran ) T numbers in somalia

    On the armenian thread , you can click the word map to bring up maps of T

    My theory is that T will disappear in a 1000 year because I believe the older the markers the less sperm count...means less children.

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    But we can't say that haplogroup T is Armenian.... It's found in only 6-8% of Armenians except for a village called Sasun in Anatolia that had 20% of T. Maybe they did not test regions of Armenia enough but I know that Armenians are high in J2 and R1b with some J1. Even Iran has such low levels except pockets of 10-13% in what I call the "Elamite" region of Iran near ancient Susa. Could this be the haplogroup of the ancient Elamites civilization but their numbers where dramatically reduced? The map on that website also does not show the 20% of Jordanians. And what about the 20% in Sasun, is this only for that city, did they test anywhere else near Sasun and the levels where low or they didn't even test? There must be some region where the levels are higher but they didn't even test yet, such a confusing haplogroup...... I am obsessed with finding a big national hotspot of more than 15-20% , I wonder if they will

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    But we can't say that haplogroup T is Armenian.... It's found in only 6-8% of Armenians except for a village called Sasun in Anatolia that had 20% of T. Maybe they did not test regions of Armenia enough but I know that Armenians are high in J2 and R1b with some J1. Even Iran has such low levels except pockets of 10-13% in what I call the "Elamite" region of Iran near ancient Susa. Could this be the haplogroup of the ancient Elamites civilization but their numbers where dramatically reduced? The map on that website also does not show the 20% of Jordanians. And what about the 20% in Sasun, is this only for that city, did they test anywhere else near Sasun and the levels where low or they didn't even test? There must be some region where the levels are higher but they didn't even test yet, such a confusing haplogroup...... I am obsessed with finding a big national hotspot of more than 15-20% , I wonder if they will
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinborland/6243496848/

    and also read the link inside this link

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    But we can't say that haplogroup T is Armenian.... It's found in only 6-8% of Armenians except for a village called Sasun in Anatolia that had 20% of T. Maybe they did not test regions of Armenia enough but I know that Armenians are high in J2 and R1b with some J1. Even Iran has such low levels except pockets of 10-13% in what I call the "Elamite" region of Iran near ancient Susa. Could this be the haplogroup of the ancient Elamites civilization but their numbers where dramatically reduced? The map on that website also does not show the 20% of Jordanians. And what about the 20% in Sasun, is this only for that city, did they test anywhere else near Sasun and the levels where low or they didn't even test? There must be some region where the levels are higher but they didn't even test yet, such a confusing haplogroup...... I am obsessed with finding a big national hotspot of more than 15-20% , I wonder if they will
    In europe you will never get in one area more than 10%.

    I believe in went to central europe very early with the hunter gathers and pastoral farmers, possibly with G2a and J2 people. Ftdna ALPGEN shows are lot of people with this.

    a man like doug form the university of Illinois, can find your Ydna back ground up to 2500 years....he is free..
    I forgot his email link..maybe someone here has it.....or I can try to find it in my old PC

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    Wow so Dravidian languages coincide with the minor spread of haplogroup T in India..... I still don't think at all that haplogroup T originated there in the high percentages areas of India or Horn of Africa or south Egypt or Oman area but I suppose in India it may have made a immigration linguistic impact. According to dating techniques the T in Egypt and Horn of Africa are older than the relatively young T from Oman supporting my hypothesis of T moving to Horn of Africa from Egypt with a much later movement from Middle East/Arabia to Oman. India I dont know the age of the haplogroup T but with the data there is Middle East T is the oldest of all thus signalling its origin point. In my opinion and according to the Wikipedia T-M184 map, T originally came either from the big 9-13% zone in southern Iran near the Elamite zone or the 7% zone covering Iraq

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Wow so Dravidian languages coincide with the minor spread of haplogroup T in India..... I still don't think at all that haplogroup T originated there in the high percentages areas of India or Horn of Africa or south Egypt or Oman area but I suppose in India it may have made a immigration linguistic impact. According to dating techniques the T in Egypt and Horn of Africa are older than the relatively young T from Oman supporting my hypothesis of T moving to Horn of Africa from Egypt with a much later movement from Middle East/Arabia to Oman. India I dont know the age of the haplogroup T but with the data there is Middle East T is the oldest of all thus signalling its origin point. In my opinion and according to the Wikipedia T-M184 map, T originally came either from the big 9-13% zone in southern Iran near the Elamite zone or the 7% zone covering Iraq
    here is a 2008 post ....remember k2 was T then

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2668035/

    Yes, I saw egypt is older than the horn.....its also stated that thomas jefferson the USA president ( a long time ago ) and a T person, has origins in egypt pre the pharaohs....so there was early movement of markers then.

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    I read somewhere that some geneticists thought T was the Phoenicians haplogroup because its found near Ibiza, In Sicily , in other Mediterranean Sea areas... But haplogroup T is barely found in Lebanon the so-called Phoenician "homeland". But then again Jordan is very near by so maybe this was the Phoenicians homeland. Other people say the Phoenicians where J2. Maybe the geneticists didn't test yet enough people or areas to find other high percentages I hope they test many more villages in the Middle East and find many more high percentages in isolated villages across Iraq or turkey, or maybe the haplogroup just isn't really there, maybe it does not follow or imitate J2, maybe it's a group going extinct with a history lost forever in some old destroyed civilization like the Elamites or Sumerians or something.... I'm trying to find studies or n formation on Jordanian people because their 21% takes place on a national level so understanding the Jordanian people may be my closest understanding of haplogroup T considering Iraq, Ian and the rest have it at too low a frequency to be considered Haplogroup T home or territory

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    They need to do more genetic testing, write more studies and publish more conclusive results on our haplogroup, not enough info on it!! Makes me sad lol oh well then I guess I'll continue studying on the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan knowing that slightly more than twenty percent of them as T

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    They need to do more genetic testing, write more studies and publish more conclusive results on our haplogroup, not enough info on it!! Makes me sad lol oh well then I guess I'll continue studying on the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan knowing that slightly more than twenty percent of them as T
    you will find something in one of the links inside this link

    http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpT.html

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    Thank you, interesting website. I have also found an area stretching from Sasun in turkey (eastern turkey near Erzurum) bypassing Armenia (excluding it) but including northern Iraq and the Azerbaijan Gharbi (west Azerbaijan province and other nearby regions of northwest Iran) as an area of probable 10-13% haplogroup T

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    Also I read that haplogroup T may have originated near the Persian gulf or the Red Sea. This would put the origin point significantly closer to Jordan's 20% hg T. But again this is just a personal theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Also I read that haplogroup T may have originated near the Persian gulf or the Red Sea. This would put the origin point significantly closer to Jordan's 20% hg T. But again this is just a personal theory
    Your L299+ in the russian site, semagyl is mostly comprised of only kurds, assyrians and armenians.
    Considering that cilicia ( on the med. coast, border of modern day turkey and syria ) was armenian for many centuries, there is one more consideration of your line from the northern Levant area to Italy via the link on the Phoenician traders ( which I have previously linked) .

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Where is semagyl though I can't find it off a map, and where did you read that it would be amazing if I could read that myself! : )

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    Where is semagyl though I can't find it off a map, and where did you read that it would be amazing if I could read that myself! : )
    for dna matches and maps etc
    http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/

    post 12 for phoenicians article

    and I have more

  21. #21
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    I still don't know where to find it lol...and what else do you haz?? : ) can't find what section of the website that is its all RussianRussian

  22. #22
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    I'm L299 but its written for me that I'm PF7443 as a snp I think

  23. #23
    Marquis Achievements:
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    I'm going to upload my haplogroup T L299 map soon I just need to figure out how to do it as someone has uploaded a J2b frequencies map I don't know how

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamo View Post
    I'm going to upload my haplogroup T L299 map soon I just need to figure out how to do it as someone has uploaded a J2b frequencies map I don't know how
    use imageshack, its free, u only need to register

  25. #25
    Marquis Achievements:
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    I'll get some help and figure it out soon I will post a map of T soon, I just need to get my hands on a computer and not this iPad lol I'm not too good with computers : )

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