Y dna haplogroup T

Salento · Aug 15, 2021

torzio said:
There has been a lot of old T found around L'Aquila town and lands and also its surrounding mountains

some tribes involved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caraceni_(tribe)

check
Messina F, Finocchio A, Rolfo MF, De Angelis F, Rapone C, Coletta M, Martínez-Labarga C, Biondi G, Berti A, Rickards O (2015). "Traces of forgotten historical events in mountain communities in Central Italy: A genetic insight". American Journal of Human Biology. 27 (4): 508–19. doi:10.1002/ajhb.22677. PMID 25728801. S2CID 30111156.

Not everyone thrives on the mountains, some of us do better than others:

…Some people are susceptible to high altitude illness after rapidly ascending from plains. The syndrome is called acute mountain sickness (AMS) and is characterized by headache, anorexia, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, fatigue, and sleep disturbance. The main cause of the syndrome is believed to be lack of the oxygen in the body, but a recent study suggested that the genetic factors play an important role in the development of AMS …

bigsnake49 · Aug 15, 2021

torzio said:
There has been a lot of old T found around L'Aquila town and lands and also its surrounding mountains

some tribes involved

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caraceni_(tribe)

check
Messina F, Finocchio A, Rolfo MF, De Angelis F, Rapone C, Coletta M, Martínez-Labarga C, Biondi G, Berti A, Rickards O (2015). "Traces of forgotten historical events in mountain communities in Central Italy: A genetic insight". American Journal of Human Biology. 27 (4): 508–19. doi:10.1002/ajhb.22677. PMID 25728801. S2CID 30111156.

My wife's maternal grandfather come from Rocca di Mezzo which is very close to L' Aquila. I wonder what his Y-DNA would have been.

kingjohn · Aug 17, 2021

only abstract :

The Dutch Y-chromosomal landscape from the Early Middle Ages to present day

DNA is a powerful source of information in reconstructing past population demographic processes. Here we present historical Y-chromosomal data from nearly 350 medieval and Early Modern Period (450-1850 CE) individuals from 13 locations across the Netherlands. With these data, in combination with comparable data from the present-day population of the Netherlands, we are able to test for geo-genetic patterns during different periods and population continuity. This contributes to the reconstruction of the male population history of the Netherlands over the past 1.5k years from a genetic perspective.

Using different methods we observed statistically significant differences in time and space. We could, however, not reject population continuity. The changes in geo-genetic patterns for the Y-chromosome in the Netherlands from the Early Middle Ages to present day indicate that the modern patterns formed only recently. Since we cannot reject population continuity, drift (changes of allele frequency due to chance) needs to be considered as a key factor in these changes. We should therefore be careful to assign frequency changes of genetic markers over time to specific historical events.

We also made an interesting observation on a local level. Only one of the sites from which we collected historical samples, the town of Eindhoven, contained samples attributed to Y-chromosomal haplogroup T and also in relatively high frequencies. This haplogroup, however, is very rare today in the Netherlands and Europe overall, but considered to have been brought along to Europe with the medieval Jewish diaspora. Since Eindhoven was founded around 1200 CE as a market place, and Jews were typically restricted to working in finance and trade during this period in Europe, we may have an indication for a Jewish community in Medieval Eindhoven, something that had not been observed in the archaeological record otherwise.

source:
https://submissions-e--a--a-org.tra...l=iw&_x_tr_hl=iw&_x_tr_pto=ajax,se,op,elem,sc

p.s
i disagree
haplogroup T is not common in jews the source should be other than jews
or earlier

torzio · Aug 17, 2021

kingjohn said:
only abstract :

The Dutch Y-chromosomal landscape from the Early Middle Ages to present day

DNA is a powerful source of information in reconstructing past population demographic processes. Here we present historical Y-chromosomal data from nearly 350 medieval and Early Modern Period (450-1850 CE) individuals from 13 locations across the Netherlands. With these data, in combination with comparable data from the present-day population of the Netherlands, we are able to test for geo-genetic patterns during different periods and population continuity. This contributes to the reconstruction of the male population history of the Netherlands over the past 1.5k years from a genetic perspective.

Using different methods we observed statistically significant differences in time and space. We could, however, not reject population continuity. The changes in geo-genetic patterns for the Y-chromosome in the Netherlands from the Early Middle Ages to present day indicate that the modern patterns formed only recently. Since we cannot reject population continuity, drift (changes of allele frequency due to chance) needs to be considered as a key factor in these changes. We should therefore be careful to assign frequency changes of genetic markers over time to specific historical events.

We also made an interesting observation on a local level. Only one of the sites from which we collected historical samples, the town of Eindhoven, contained samples attributed to Y-chromosomal haplogroup T and also in relatively high frequencies. This haplogroup, however, is very rare today in the Netherlands and Europe overall, but considered to have been brought along to Europe with the medieval Jewish diaspora. Since Eindhoven was founded around 1200 CE as a market place, and Jews were typically restricted to working in finance and trade during this period in Europe, we may have an indication for a Jewish community in Medieval Eindhoven, something that had not been observed in the archaeological record otherwise.

source:
https://submissions-e--a--a-org.tra...l=iw&_x_tr_hl=iw&_x_tr_pto=ajax,se,op,elem,sc

p.s
i disagree
haplogroup T is not common in jews the source should be other than jews
or earlier

there is a jewish site which gives all the branches of T ( based on snp ) which are Jewish or non-Jewish .....................it also does other Ydna branches

I have only 1 x T.... DNA match in the Netherlands ..................East Frisian in origin, ...Christina Tax family line ...............Tax surname, impossible to use on the net

https://sites.google.com/view/ashke...aplogroup-t-y-dna-clusters-for-ashkenazi-jews

torzio · Aug 23, 2021

Awaiting response from a swiss woman who has 3 x T1a2 ydna relatives in her family tree ( age range looks 1780 to 1950 )

surnames are
Carrara ................. ( I think it was originally Carrera from Songrio Lombardy, my guess )
Steiner
Seitz

area in question ..........East Switzerland ( I presume the Italian section ) .........North Tyrol and South Tyrol

Salento · Sep 5, 2021

Kars537:

SZ36:

raw-data (comb. and standard 23, Ancestry, …):

Kars537
https://www.mediafire.com/file/8ob066zf6415iti/kars537.zip/file

SZ36
https://www.mediafire.com/file/7ylbk2d7rudhr0x/sz36.zip/file

GedM...:

# HZ8647162 - Kars537
# QG2674693 - SZ36

torzio · Sep 20, 2021

New finding of T-L162 in the Luka Papac et al. paper. "Dynamic changes in genomic and social structures in third millennium BCE central Europe"

settlement of Kolín-Šťáralka ( Central Bohemia ), are found to belong to T-L162.

Site: Kolín-Šťáralka
Culture: Funnelbeaker Culture / Trichterbecherkultur
SubCulture: Baalberge Group
Period: Early Eneolithic ( Late Neolithic )
Years Before Present: 4908±25

torzio · Sep 20, 2021

Ancient DNA from Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis (Olalde et al 2021) "Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples"

They found T-L131

ID: I15532

mtDNA: J2b1c

Grave type: Freely buried deceased
Period: Roman Empire
Province: Moesia (Balkans)

kingjohn · Sep 20, 2021

torzio said:
Ancient DNA from Viminacium, Pecine Necropolis (Olalde et al 2021) "Cosmopolitanism at the Roman Danubian Frontier, Slavic Migrations, and the Genomic Formation of Modern Balkan Peoples"

They found T-L131

ID: I15532

mtDNA: J2b1c

Grave type: Freely buried deceased
Period: Roman Empire
Province: Moesia (Balkans)

cool:cool-v:
it is close to your branch under T

Salento · Sep 20, 2021

torzio said:
New finding of T-L162 in the Luka Papac et al. paper. "Dynamic changes in genomic and social structures in third millennium BCE central Europe"

settlement of Kolín-Šťáralka ( Central Bohemia ), are found to belong to T-L162.

Site: Kolín-Šťáralka
Culture: Funnelbeaker Culture / Trichterbecherkultur
SubCulture: Baalberge Group
Period: Early Eneolithic ( Late Neolithic )
Years Before Present: 4908±25

@Torzio … all of them? If not, … does he have a name / ID?

torzio · Sep 21, 2021

Salento said:
@Torzio … all of them? If not, … does he have a name / ID?

you mean ID ?

KOB003 - T1a1 ..............mtdna N

KOB007 - T1a1 ..............mtdna U5

Salento · Sep 21, 2021

torzio said:
you mean ID ?

KOB003 - T1a1 ..............mtdna N

KOB007 - T1a1 ..............mtdna U5

I said ID too

… thanks, … so they’re two y T Kobs out of the six on ENA.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB45006?show=reads

Salento · Sep 21, 2021

torzio said:
you mean ID ?

KOB003 - T1a1 ..............mtdna N

KOB007 - T1a1 ..............mtdna U5

GedM...:
KOB003 # RJ1593240
KOB007 # TP8762010

Distance to:	KOB003_Dod_K12b
1.79097739	I1926_Trypillia
3.61076169	I2110_Trypillia
5.01568540	I16163_Sardinia_IA_Anghelu_Ruju
7.01876057	I8561_Sicily_EBA_Isnello
8.07154880	I3124_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II

Distance to:	KOB007_Dod_K12b
5.64938935	I2440_Globular_Amphora
5.65888682	I1926_Trypillia
6.85803179	I2110_Trypillia
7.11959268	IberiaBronzeAge_ATP9
7.36768620	I0559_QLB15D_Baalberge_MN_Quedlinburg_IX_Germany_3645-3537_calBCE

Code:

KOB003_Dod_K12b,0.00,0.00,3.81,0.00,53.94,16.35,0.00,0.00,8.50,0.00,17.40,0.00
KOB007_Dod_K12b,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,57.20,17.89,0.00,2.49,6.68,0.00,15.74,0.00

Code:

KOB003_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.02,11.20,0.00,57.60,0.00,0.00,0.00,29.45,0.00,1.74
KOB007_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.00,0.24,0.31,9.92,0.00,56.73,0.30,0.00,0.00,31.53,0.00,0.97

torzio · Sep 21, 2021

Salento said:
GedM...:
KOB003 # RJ1593240
KOB007 # TP8762010

Distance to: KOB003_Dod_K12b
1.79097739 I1926_Trypillia
3.61076169 I2110_Trypillia
5.01568540 I16163_Sardinia_IA_Anghelu_Ruju
7.01876057 I8561_Sicily_EBA_Isnello
8.07154880 I3124_Sicily_EBA_Buffa_Cave_II

Distance to: KOB007_Dod_K12b
5.64938935 I2440_Globular_Amphora
5.65888682 I1926_Trypillia
6.85803179 I2110_Trypillia
7.11959268 IberiaBronzeAge_ATP9
7.36768620 I0559_QLB15D_Baalberge_MN_Quedlinburg_IX_Germany_3645-3537_calBCE

Code:

KOB003_Dod_K12b,0.00,0.00,3.81,0.00,53.94,16.35,0.00,0.00,8.50,0.00,17.40,0.00 KOB007_Dod_K12b,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,57.20,17.89,0.00,2.49,6.68,0.00,15.74,0.00

Code:

KOB003_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.02,11.20,0.00,57.60,0.00,0.00,0.00,29.45,0.00,1.74 KOB007_Dod_Globe13,0.00,0.00,0.24,0.31,9.92,0.00,56.73,0.30,0.00,0.00,31.53,0.00,0.97

As per T project admin ...............these two samples are related to KARS537

BTW
Have you got a list of every T ydna that has K12b info ?....................I like to compare myself with all the T and see if I can see a trend for my line

Salento · Sep 21, 2021

torzio said:
As per T project admin ...............these two samples are related to KARS537

BTW
Have you got a list of every T ydna that has K12b info ?....................I like to compare myself with all the T and see if I can see a trend for my line

… they are scattered around the forum, I’ll consolidate them, … later

Salento · Sep 22, 2021

torzio said:
As per T project admin ...............these two samples are related to KARS537

BTW
Have you got a list of every T ydna that has K12b info ?....................I like to compare myself with all the T and see if I can see a trend for my line

... from various sources, ... most y T Dodecad K12b coordinates of interest:
(I can try to get some more, but you have to be specific)

Code:

ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic,0,0,0,7.78,44.92,3.01,0,0,11.36,0,32.93,0
R850_Ardea_Latin,7.3,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.1,0
R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome,5.11,0.47,2.1,0,33.79,17.98,0,1.11,11.27,0,27.96,0.21
R1543_Imperial_Rome,8.92,0,5.86,0,21.15,9.11,0.41,0.36,14.95,0,38.92,0.31
CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom,6,1.15,3.48,0,36.14,24.04,0.16,0.59,7.04,0,21.33,0.07
SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary,5.31,0,2.69,0,32.16,22.1,0.15,0,9.96,0,27.22,0.41
I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern,4.91,0,1.54,0.70,25.57,17.55,0.36,0.48,11.88,0,37,0
I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD,6.34,0.29,11.67,0,35.87,20.88,0,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06
Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0,3.81,0.14,50.90,0,0,0.68,15.71,0,28.76,0
Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0,2.60,0,45.47,0,0,0,14.99,0,36.19,0.75
kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0.45,3.45,0,59.31,0,0,0.53,15.77,0,20.49,0
VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga,2.47,2.89,0.05,0.68,28.23,60.27,0,0,0.06,0,3.77,1.58
VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara,8.38,2.47,0.53,0,35.05,41.08,0,0,0.48,0,9.88,2.14
I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic,0,0,2.21,0.37,42.93,36.24,0,0,7.78,0.22,9.65,0.61
I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic,0,0,2.08,1.14,49.17,30.37,0,0,6.38,0,10.05,0.81
KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia,0,0,3.81,0,53.94,16.35,0,0,8.50,0,17.40,0
KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia,0,0,0,0,57.20,17.89,0,2.49,6.68,0,15.74,0

torzio · Sep 22, 2021

Salento said:

... from various sources, ... most y T Dodecad K12b coordinates of interest:
(I can try to get some more, but you have to be specific)

Code:

ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic,0,0,0,7.78,44.92,3.01,0,0,11.36,0,32.93,0
R850_Ardea_Latin,7.3,0,4.52,1.08,21.26,10.54,0,0.43,14.77,0,40.1,0
R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome,5.11,0.47,2.1,0,33.79,17.98,0,1.11,11.27,0,27.96,0.21
R1543_Imperial_Rome,8.92,0,5.86,0,21.15,9.11,0.41,0.36,14.95,0,38.92,0.31
CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom,6,1.15,3.48,0,36.14,24.04,0.16,0.59,7.04,0,21.33,0.07
SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary,5.31,0,2.69,0,32.16,22.1,0.15,0,9.96,0,27.22,0.41
I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern,4.91,0,1.54,0.70,25.57,17.55,0.36,0.48,11.88,0,37,0
I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD,6.34,0.29,11.67,0,35.87,20.88,0,3.68,15.38,0.36,5.46,0.06
Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0,3.81,0.14,50.90,0,0,0.68,15.71,0,28.76,0
Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0,2.60,0,45.47,0,0,0,14.99,0,36.19,0.75
kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany,0,0.45,3.45,0,59.31,0,0,0.53,15.77,0,20.49,0
VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga,2.47,2.89,0.05,0.68,28.23,60.27,0,0,0.06,0,3.77,1.58
VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara,8.38,2.47,0.53,0,35.05,41.08,0,0,0.48,0,9.88,2.14
I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic,0,0,2.21,0.37,42.93,36.24,0,0,7.78,0.22,9.65,0.61
I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic,0,0,2.08,1.14,49.17,30.37,0,0,6.38,0,10.05,0.81
KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia,0,0,3.81,0,53.94,16.35,0,0,8.50,0,17.40,0
KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia,0,0,0,0,57.20,17.89,0,2.49,6.68,0,15.74,0

i just thought it would be helpful to put them all together

regards

torzio · Sep 22, 2021

Target: Torziok12b Distance: 2.2306% / 2.23061290 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

45.6	CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom


29.9	SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary


24.5	VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara

Distance to:	Torziok12b
4.82277928	CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom
10.29711610	SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary
13.60258064	R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome
17.30128608	I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
18.43716627	VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara
18.84040870	I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
22.17713011	I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD
22.56245332	I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern
23.18973911	KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
25.41673858	KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
31.09767515	R850_Ardea_Latin
31.47556195	ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic
31.51982392	R1543_Imperial_Rome
34.91681543	Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
35.19496271	Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
38.27756523	VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga
38.50644881	kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany

very different from MTA in regards to ydna T

torzio · Sep 22, 2021

Distance to:	Torziok12b
4.82277928	CL23_Collegno_Italy_Longobard_Kingdom
10.29711610	SZ36_Longobard_Migration_Hungary
13.60258064	R120_Late_Antiquity_Rome
17.30128608	I0700_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
18.43716627	VK398_Viking_Sweden_Skara
18.84040870	I1108_Malak_Preslavets_Balkans_MP_Neolithic
22.17713011	I4055_SE_Iberia_300AD
22.56245332	I3403_Skeleton_Lake_Traveler_Modern
23.18973911	KOB003_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
25.41673858	KOB007_Kolin-Staralka_Funnelbeaker_Bohemia
31.09767515	R850_Ardea_Latin
31.47556195	ANI152_Varna_Golden_King_Eneolithic
31.51982392	R1543_Imperial_Rome
34.91681543	Kars537_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
35.19496271	Kar6_I0795_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany
38.27756523	VK17_Viking_Russia_Ladoga
38.50644881	kar16a_I0797_LBK_EN_Karsdorf_Germany

Salento · Sep 26, 2021

… deleted …

Y dna haplogroup T

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