Y dna haplogroup T

Can anyone tell me what this means about haplogroup T1a1a (L208), there are a large number of new SNPs relevant to Haplogroup T on the Geno 2.0 chip. Z709 appears to be the most significant as it splits the large T-L208 paragroup into 2 roughly equal branches - a redefined T-L208* and T-Z709. T-P77 is a subgroup of T-Z709. So I'm either T-Z709 (P77) is downstream of this branch or I'm a redefined L-208, which is what I believe I am, with no further Z-709 mutation.
 
for Adamo

2010 T-M70 only confirmation from Russian site

Had a work colleague decifer, but I am unsure. Female russian from socie ( maybe I need a new translation )

http://gentis.ru/info/ydna-tutorial/hg-t/m70

oldest area by years ( oldest at top ):
irak and syria
then
anatolia
greece and egypt
spain and russia
central europe
arabia
somalia at 3300 years ago is the youngest
 
Last edited:
rene said:
hi
i know my paternal linage back to 1730 from city of shiraz from a lore tribe called zand and i found i have Y HG T.
i wonder which ancient peoplein iran or mesoptamie had this kind of Y HG before arrival of aryans with R1a y hg ?
regards
Click to expand...

the last ice age was not only very cold, it was also a dry and arid climate
many tribes had to look for a refuge

the Iranian plateau was an exception during the ice age : it had about 50 % more rainfall than today
mainly haplogroup G came to Iran for a refuge, but also some haplogroup T

after the ice age the climate on the Iranian plateau became arid again, forcing these people to look for a new territory once again . that was long before the invasion of the aryans
 
bicicleur said:
the last ice age was not only very cold, it was also a dry and arid climate
many tribes had to look for a refuge

the Iranian plateau was an exception during the ice age : it had about 50 % more rainfall than today
mainly haplogroup G came to Iran for a refuge, but also some haplogroup T

after the ice age the climate on the Iranian plateau became arid again, forcing these people to look for a new territory once again . that was long before the invasion of the aryans
Click to expand...

Ancestry.com label haplogroup T as "Tigris valley farmers"
 
adamo said:
It seems that the Elamites where the ancestors of all Persians, so judging on haplogroup T's low but relatively higher frequency in that region, hg T was probably a first, ancestral substratum of Persians ( Iranians) as using the term Persians would be incorrect, considering they where an indo-European group, the Persians where new foreign migrants whereas the Elamites where the original iranian group.
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Persian origin is most likely the result of Iranian nomads merging with Elamites. So in other words. without this merging Persians as we know wouldn't have existed.
 
There is significant evidence for a Jewish diaspora origin of hg T. Some of the highest levels of hg T are found in middle eastern Jews, as well as Portuguese Jews. The city of Samsun in eastern turkey is named after Shamshoun/Shimshon, he was a legendary "strong-man" from the tribe of Dan (one of the 12 lost tribes of Israel, including Simeon,Judea,Manasseh,etc.) thus creating a Jewish link between this city. Also, we know that hg T-P77 was probably spread by Assyrians exiling the Jews to their mizrahim communities (Jews of Babylon/Mesopotamia). There is also hg T in Ethiopia, where Jews where also exiled by the Assyrians, for example. The reality is that hg T may e a sort of "definite" Jewish marker, or I may be wrong.
 
latest count from assyrian studies ................T group keeps growing in percentage.

N=109 (August 2, 2013)
24.8%--R1b
18.3%--J1
16.5%--T
12.8%--J2
8.3%--E1b1b1
8.3%--G
4.6%--R2a
2.8%--Q1b
1.8%--R1a
0.9%--F
0.9%--L​


Note:
the R1b.....must be part of the very old assyrian-Hittite wars ( my guess).
Nearly 3% of Q.
Low L ...hmmm, .......where did North-Italy get the 8.2% of L and 4.5% of T from?
 
Wow, so in Assyrian populations T stacks between J1 and J2 in importance (put it this way, the J family is VERY important to Assyrian heritage.) So it is a "main" Assyrian marker. At 16% of them positive for T, this makes them competitors with Egyptians,Jordanians and Iraqi/Kurdish/Iranian Jewish groups (16% for all) and iraqis and Somalians are not too far behind (13%).
 
adamo said:
Wow, so in Assyrian populations T stacks between J1 and J2 in importance (put it this way, the J family is VERY important to Assyrian heritage.) So it is a "main" Assyrian marker. At 16% of them positive for T, this makes them competitors with Egyptians,Jordanians and Iraqi/Kurdish/Iranian Jewish groups (16% for all) and iraqis and Somalians are not too far behind (13%).
Click to expand...
What are T's frequency numbers for Jordan and for Lebanon.

Originally, if I have it right, Wells et al (National Geno) were saying that T went along with J2 as common in Phoenicians but that would include people in present day Lebanon.
 
Mikewww said:
What are T's frequency numbers for Jordan and for Lebanon.

Originally, if I have it right, Wells et al (National Geno) were saying that T went along with J2 as common in Phoenicians but that would include people in present day Lebanon.
Click to expand...

ALL T have = T-M184 marker: 3% in Jordan, 5% in Lebanon, Armenian Sasuntzis 21%, Zoroastrians Persians 13%, SW Armenians/Cilicia 12%.

90% of T have T-M70+ : 28% (7/25) of Lezginians , 16% Assyrians

Also depends on which of the 2 main branches you inquiring about.

I seen claims of 22% for jordanians, but I have never seen this
 
Sile said:
ALL T have = T-M184 marker: 3% in Jordan, 5% in Lebanon, Armenian Sasuntzis 21%, Zoroastrians Persians 13%, SW Armenians/Cilicia 12%.

90% of T have T-M70+ : 28% (7/25) of Lezginians , 16% Assyrians

Also depends on which of the 2 main branches you inquiring about.

I seen claims of 22% for jordanians, but I have never seen this
Click to expand...

Thank you, Sile.

My father-in-law is of Spanish descent and is T-M70 of the alpha cluster. We are somewhat swayed by the Phoenician/Mediterranean story that National Geno has presented, but I guess there is a possibility of Jewish descent or perhaps even Moorish descent. I would like to get some kind of inclination but I have no idea what's most likely.
 
Mikewww said:
Thank you, Sile.

My father-in-law is of Spanish descent and is T-M70 of the alpha cluster. We are somewhat swayed by the Phoenician/Mediterranean story that National Geno has presented, but I guess there is a possibility of Jewish descent or perhaps even Moorish descent. I would like to get some kind of inclination but I have no idea what's most likely.
Click to expand...

T-M70 splits in 2 in old Anatolia, with T1a1 being mostly southern and T1a2 being mostly northern european.

A person named Humanist on another forum specializes in assyrian Y-dna and T for assyrians is 16%. Assyrians would be also northern lebanese. If this is the link with Phoenicians you seek. Then again phoenicians where in ancient egypt to

maybe your ancestor was like the USA president Thomas , from ancient Egypt to Iberia to Wales
 
T is not very present in Lebanon (3-5%). As for Jordan, I've seen frequencies between 3 and 21%. The genographic project claims 15-20% T for Jordanians. I've seen studies of 3 to 12% for Palestinians, 8-15% of Egyptians, 6-13% of Iraqis, 13% of Turkish Kurds, but it seems more present in Iraqi Jews, iranian Jews and Kurdish Jews 14-22%. Also found at 12-15% frequencies across much of southwestern Iran.
 
It is found in many Jewish diaspora groups predominantly Iraqi Jews (22%), Kurdish Jews (18%) and Iranian Jews (14%). It is also found in north Portuguese Jews 15%). Oddly enough, T is rare in Israel itself and in nearby Lebanon and Syria. T is present, but at very low frequencies (3%) in Ashkenazi Jews. To counter this "Jewish" origin link, some 20% of Hashemite Arab Jordanians, also have T. It is a marker present in Assyrian (16%) and Turkish Kurd (13%) populations. It can also be found in many Iranian men.
 
according to this map T1a has a more assyrian distribution originating from north-central Iran, pushing to Armenia/Azerbaijan and then spilling into anatolia slightly and the levant (syrians,Lebanese) spilling into egypt and parts of arabia as well. WHEREAS T3 seems to radiate from anatolia from where it spilt into saudi arabians, kuwaitis and bakhtiaris in the middle east.
 
T2 VARIETY (L162,L208,L1117): 90% of north-central Iranians (high diversity/age) 50% of southern Iranians, 100% of Azerbaijani T, 100% OF armenian (high diversity and age), 100% of Lurs people, 100% of Chechen, 100% of syrian and 92% of Lebanese T is T1a. 100% of Druze, 75% of Egyptian and 90% of Ethiopian. About 57% of Saudi Arabian(high diversity), 75% of Omanian, and 82% of T near Dubai (high diversity). Also about 45% of Turkish T is T2. T1a probably originated in north-central Iran, moved near Urartu (the Armenia/Azerbaijan area) and then dipped towards syria/Lebanon, continuing across the levant/Canaan region and penetrating Africa to reach the Horn of Africa. T3 on the other hand, originated later on, in Turkey. it would move south to many saudi arabian, kuwaiti and bakhtiari bedouin tribes.
 
I got my 23andme test back...............I still think FtDna is far superior.

anyway here goes .



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



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conservative numbers ABOVE
.......................................
speculative numbers BELOW

below is me
99.9% European


Southern European
33.2% Italian
2.4% Iberian
1.0% Balkan
0.0% Sardinian
16.2% Nonspecific Southern European

Northern European
22.6% French and German
0.8% British and Irish
0.0% Scandinavian
0.0% Finnish
17.2% Nonspecific Northern European

1.2% Eastern European
0.1% Ashkenazi
5.1% Nonspecific European

0.1% Middle Eastern & North African
0.1% North African
0.0% Middle Eastern
0.0% Nonspecific Middle Eastern & North African
0.0% Sub-Saharan African

0.0% South Asian
0.0% East Asian & Native American
0.0% East Asian

0.0% Native American
0.0% Nonspecific East Asian & Native American

0.0% Oceanian
< 0.1% Unassigned
 
Sile said:
I got my 23andme test back...............I still think FtDna is far superior.

anyway here goes .



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

conservative numbers ABOVE
.......................................
speculative numbers BELOW

below is me
99.9% European


Southern European
33.2% Italian
2.4% Iberian
1.0% Balkan
0.0% Sardinian
16.2% Nonspecific Southern European

Northern European
22.6% French and German
0.8% British and Irish
0.0% Scandinavian
0.0% Finnish
17.2% Nonspecific Northern European

1.2% Eastern European
0.1% Ashkenazi
5.1% Nonspecific European

0.1% Middle Eastern & North African
0.1% North African
0.0% Middle Eastern
0.0% Nonspecific Middle Eastern & North African
0.0% Sub-Saharan African

0.0% South Asian
0.0% East Asian & Native American
0.0% East Asian

0.0% Native American
0.0% Nonspecific East Asian & Native American

0.0% Oceanian
< 0.1% Unassigned
Click to expand...

T Migrational map and theory by project managers a year ago



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It seems to be present in Italy mostly where Phoenicians settled. For example, many T samples are from Palermo (ancient Phoenician "Ziz", was passed on to succeeding Carthaginians). Mazara del vallo (anciently Phoenician city of Mazar) ,there was also much Phoenician presence near Sciacca.
 
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