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Thread: Haplogroup W - Do I even exist?

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Haplogroup W - Do I even exist?

    Hello, everyone.

    My maternal Haplogroup appears to be W. I feel a bit frustrated that there's so little information on my group compared to the more common H.

    So, I'm confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinion as to whether Haplogroup W is European, Middle Eastern, Indian, or Asian.

    I've been able to extract vague hints that my subgroup of W is likely the Northern European/Finnish one, but I'm still confused as to why I would be so far away genetically from H and the other common European DNA groups (not counting the spike in Finland), and so close to random people from India and Pakistan.

    I mean, what happened? Am I a direct matrilineal descendant of an ancient European or Middle Eastern tribe that was nearly wiped out by the modern inhabitants of Europe and Asia? That's the only thing I can think of that explains the weird geographical distribution of results.

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    Best mtDNA indicator for Indo-european ancestry.

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    W mt distribution W mt is clearly a Indo european haplogroup

    Quote Originally Posted by Semitic Duwa View Post
    Best mtDNA indicator for Indo-european ancestry.
    Nico

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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I1d
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    W

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    Caucasian
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    I thought Indo-European was just a language group that included the Germanic and Romance languages, along with a few languages in the Middle East. I didn't know it was an actual group of people.

    So, if I'm an Indo-European... what does that mean? I would think it means I'm safe to say that my ancestors were involved in European history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I thought Indo-European was just a language group that included the Germanic and Romance languages, along with a few languages in the Middle East. I didn't know it was an actual group of people.

    So, if I'm an Indo-European... what does that mean? I would think it means I'm safe to say that my ancestors were involved in European history.
    http://www.thecid.com/w/wpercent.gif

    Yes Indo european is a language and this family of languages is called " Indo European " common from India to Europe so if you look at this map below most of these countries are using a Indo european language and W mt is present on Europe your ancestors were involved in the European history since a very long time .

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    According to my research, haplogroup W would be linked in great part to the spread of the Indo-Europeans from the Eurasian steppes. Siberian and Finnish hg W is probably a different branch though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I thought Indo-European was just a language group that included the Germanic and Romance languages, along with a few languages in the Middle East. I didn't know it was an actual group of people.

    So, if I'm an Indo-European... what does that mean? I would think it means I'm safe to say that my ancestors were involved in European history.
    Yes, it is a group of people, and they played a vital role in genetic history. It is thought that the Indo-Europeans spread the genes for fair hair, red hair, blue eyes and lactose tolerance, among others.

    MtDNA hg W correlates strongly with Y-DNA hg R1a1a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Yes, it is a group of people, and they played a vital role in genetic history. It is thought that the Indo-Europeans spread the genes for fair hair, red hair, blue eyes and lactose tolerance, among others.

    MtDNA hg W correlates strongly with Y-DNA hg R1a1a.

    Maciamo if you take a look about I1c Y DNA you find also blue eyes fair hair and lactose tolerance I think that the highest % of R1a in Europe is found in Poland so polish people are less blond and blue eyes than Scandinavians so you consider R1a as an " Indo European marker " or first IE speakers (Indo european is a linguistic concept) I would like some explanations about recessive genes I think that dark hair and brown eyes are " stronger " than Blond hair and blue eyes so I1c is not consider by you as an Indo European "marker" right ? so could you explain to me why I1c + some R1a are still blond and blue eyes in Scandinavia ? On my opinion I1c was fair hair and blue eyes may be more than R1a . blue eyes and fair hair is the product of an evolution within cold whether and high latitudes that means not very sunny and also sedentary way of life .
    Last edited by willy; 01-07-10 at 00:05.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The R1b together with R1a make up more than 50% in Scandinavia...And Finland has a high percentage of blondism and they are mostly N1c (~60%). Haplogroups have little to do with blond hair. In countries with very high frequeny of blondism like Holland and Denmark are majority R1b.

    Fair hair and blue eyes cannot be scandinavian, because Scandinavia was covered by Ice when Europeans were living in the South, and haplogroup I already existed. It is a "recently" habitated land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    The R1b together with R1a make up more than 50% in Scandinavia...And Finland has a high percentage of blondism and they are mostly N1c (~60%). Haplogroups have little to do with blond hair. In countries with very high frequeny of blondism like Holland and Denmark are majority R1b.
    N1c at 60 % wow ! so N1c is not a " indo european " group I mean N1c is not see as IE
    the language of Finland is not IE .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post

    Fair hair and blue eyes cannot be scandinavian, because Scandinavia was covered by Ice when Europeans were living in the South, and haplogroup I already existed. It is a "recently" habitated land.
    Ok I never said that I said I1c seems to be fair hair and blue eyes so " the south " of Europe was also cold during the ice age . We cant say IE speakers were fair hair and blue eyes this is not exclusive to the first IE speakers and we dont know exactly what peoples were the first IE speakers we have just hypothesis about .

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    Eurasian Berbers (non mixed) had / have (the few that remain today) relatively high percentages of blondism / light hair and light eyes. Eurasian Berbers are overwhelmingly E3b (M-81).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cambria Red View Post
    Eurasian Berbers (non mixed) had / have (the few that remain today) relatively high percentages of blondism / light hair and light eyes. Eurasian Berbers are overwhelmingly E3b (M-81).
    Yes I know that " Indo european " is a linguistic concept not a race or a haplogroup this is a great misunderstanding to say IE = fair hair

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    Eurasian Berbers (non mixed) had / have (the few that remain today) relatively high percentages of blondism / light hair and light eyes. Eurasian Berbers are overwhelmingly E3b (M-81).
    Finland has a high percentage of blondism and they are mostly N1c (~60%).
    I wonder why barely noone seem to take mtDNA hgs into consideration...
    The Finns are 60 % N1c but about 95% of their female lineages are "European".
    Their autosomal profile is clearly fully European even though they are among the further from the European average, like south Italians. It's supported by their phenotypes, of course even if a few characteristics could sometimes be inferred to have come from Asia.

    We don't know exactly about all the processes involved especially in populations that remained rather isolated. The bearers of some haplogroups could be particularly linked with blue eyes and blondism originally and some others not (originally that is).

    As for Berbers, the region of North africa were the Europoid phenotypes are the more frequent are where apparently tracks of paleolithical migrations from Europe have been found (ibero-maurusian culture), cro-magnoid skeletons (mechtoids whose BTW, some 10,000 yrs old skeletons have been found down to Mali - it goes well with the fact that Europoid/west eurasia mtDNA hgs are found in north Africa (berbers, tuaregs, etc...), Sahara and even in Fulani of subsaharan counries (U5, V and H for instance (if could post links I would have a lot to post)), and 12,000 ybp old bones in the Moroccan Rif mountains (a region where light hair and eyes are apparently rather frequent for Africa).
    There are "west eurasian" haplogroups - especially in the mtDNA hgs - in north Africa. A 2005 study also points to a mtDNA link of Berbers with some mtDNA from Samis. In pre-spanish colonization Canaries Islands partial west eurasian origin is seen as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Beiter View Post
    I wonder why barely noone seem to take mtDNA hgs into consideration...
    The Finns are 60 % N1c but about 95% of their female lineages are "European".
    Their autosomal profile is clearly fully European even though they are among the further from the European average, like south Italians. It's supported by their phenotypes, of course even if a few characteristics could sometimes be inferred to have come from Asia.
    I agree with you. Besides, blondism is especially common in south-west Finland, where hg I1 and R1a make over 50% of the paternal lineages. Combined with nearly 100% of northern European maternal lineages, it is not surprising to find such a high incidence of blond hair in that part of Finland. Eastern Finns, though, are very dark haired.

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    I thought this was all about mtDNA....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Combined with nearly 100% of northern European maternal lineages,

    What they are ? what is a " northen European matrenal lineage " what mt haplogroups ? mt J1c1 is it or not ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Hello, everyone.

    My maternal Haplogroup appears to be W. I feel a bit frustrated that there's so little information on my group compared to the more common H.

    So, I'm confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinion as to whether Haplogroup W is European, Middle Eastern, Indian, or Asian.

    I've been able to extract vague hints that my subgroup of W is likely the Northern European/Finnish one, but I'm still confused as to why I would be so far away genetically from H and the other common European DNA groups (not counting the spike in Finland), and so close to random people from India and Pakistan.

    I mean, what happened? Am I a direct matrilineal descendant of an ancient European or Middle Eastern tribe that was nearly wiped out by the modern inhabitants of Europe and Asia? That's the only thing I can think of that explains the weird geographical distribution of results.
    Hi, yes you do exist as do I! I am also haplogroup W, actually W1e. I am from the UK and my maternal line appears English as far back as early 19th century. That's as far as I have researched for now. How about you? Like you I am trying to understand where the line originated.

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    Mtdna W has three power cores; the India/Pakistan border region ( may have originated there) extreme northwestern Iran ( may have originated there) and southern Finland.

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    Country: Finland



    What about mtdna W1 ?

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    I don't know, in terms of frequencies the highest percentages are the above mentioned ones, they probably arrived from there towards the Finland high area so I'm assuming either it originated in the Middle East towards Iran or in the Indus Valley bordering India/Pakistan I guess; frequency does not mean origin point only population in which it is most present so with regards to thT I have no more information, so I don't know.

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    I would suspect the Finland region to have a young clade and diversity of W whereas the middle eastern Iranian or Indian/Pakistan whatever samples have more diverse older "W1" type subclades.

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    Personally, in Europe, I have found mtdna X and W lineages to rise in southern Mediterranean/Aegean Europe, mtdna J has a European high in Greece for example of 15%; HV must also be slightly more frequent in these regions.

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    Thumbs up MtDNA "W"

    Hello!
    My mother's mtDNA is W4. Do you know anything about it????

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    My wife is W1, with a maternal line that traces back to the British Isles. 23 and me is now on the page that mt-DNA haplogroup W has an Indo-European origin now. Here is the snippet from her ancestry report:

    "The name of the Corded Ware culture comes from their characteristic pottery, which was decorated with cord-like designs. The people of the Corded Ware culture likely grew out of the steppe culture north of the Caspian Sea approximately 4,900 years ago, and were highly mobile and used horses and wagons extensively. They spread west to cover much of central and eastern Europe from the Volga to Germany and the coast of the Baltic Sea, spreading proto-Indo-European language with them. In fact, their language was the common prehistoric ancestor of Celtic, German, Baltic and Slavic languages.
    While the expansions of horseback warriors from the steppes are associated most strongly with the spread of paternal lineages, a number of maternal lineages also grew in frequency with the spread of the Corded Ware culture from the east. Researchers have found members of haplogroup W in remains from both the steppes and Corded Ware sites, suggesting that W may have been one of these maternal lineages."

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